Germany: Former Nazi guard charged over 300,000 Auschwitz murders

[Benmart]

Crimes of such magnitude should not qualify for discounts based on the age of the perpetrator or how much time has elapsed since the crime was commited.

If so, what age or time elapsed is the cutoff for future crimes against humanity?

It's easy to feel sorry for a sick and frail 93 year old. I feel much more compassion for those that were murdered and their descendants who live with the memories of the horrors commited.

[Radar501]

Over the course of WWII, there must have been hundreds of SS personnel directly or indirectly involved in death camp exterminations, some giving the orders, most taking such orders, but ALL fully aware of the crimes that were being committed.

Some of the guards occupying their posts when the Allies liberated the camps were extra-judiciously executed on-site, but many of the lower ranking SS soldiers simply melted back into civilian society despite evidence of their participation.

Post-war, The Nuremberg Trials and other court proceedings dealt with the Nazi top-brass. There have been decades of opportunities to bring the remaining perpetrators to justice. Some have faced such justice, but most haven't. and natural attrition has resulted in their numbers dropping to almost zero.

Now, almost 70 years on, authorities have located an old man whose duty at Auschwitz was to remove baggage from the sight of arriving passengers. I am not sure what size debt he still owes to society, but I suppose justice must not only be done, but also seen to be done. We all could do very well to move on from this horrible chapter of the war.

Incidentally, several Russian judges sat in verdict at the Nuremberg trials. Meanwhile, Comrade Stalin was liquidating millions and millions of his own innocent people in gulags across the Soviet Union.

Oh, that's right. The pages of history are written by the victors.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Radar501

[carstenp]

Crimes of such magnitude should not qualify for discounts based on the age of the perpetrator or how much time has elapsed since the crime was commited.

If so, what age or time elapsed is the cutoff for future crimes against humanity?

It's easy to feel sorry for a sick and frail 93 year old. I feel much more compassion for those that were murdered and their descendants who live with the memories of the horrors commited.

I agree , but think of the house of cards. Where was he. The lamb or the lion

Had to edit my post

Maybe all the officers from that time is dead, and seems like there are going for anyone there has being working there even they was young like 20-23 years. When does it has to stop. Again it's 70 years ago. What about the lady in the kitchen , the boy there was clean the floor, the boy there was taking the phone, the .... And so on

Edited September 16, 2014 by carstenp

[Seastallion]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Not possible in these cases.

But don't worry, they will all be dead soon enough.

Then your issue of the Nazi criminals being too old will fade away.

If there is no forgiveness for the Nazi mass murderers, then there should not be for any guilty of similar crimes either.

The genocide committed by the Turks on the Armenians, the anti Jewish programs of the Russians, the vile atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chines prior to and during WW2, the appalling war crimes committed by the Japanese against those they invaded and POW's - all intentional but rarely punished. The native population of the Congo was reduced by 50% under Belgian colonial rule, with some of the cruelest slave labor regimes of any imperialist power. No consequence.

Seems who the victims makes a difference - and it shouldn't do where justice is concerned.

It definitely makes a difference who the victims are. One post mentioning other war criminals has been deleted already! It's a shame that some murders are condoned while a clerk who counted cash is vilified.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, inflammatory and troll posts along with replies have been deleted. Please stick to the topic, which is fairly specific.

[carter1882]

One trip to Auschwitz is enough to know there is very little there. One trip to Treblinka is enough to know there is virtually nothing for the naked eye there either. The history is in the hundreds of well corroborated testimonials making up a huge body of reliable evidence on the subject. The posters views are not worth listening to and though they do not amount to absolute denial they a dangerous precursor to others doing just that.

[personchester]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Strange reply, because if the German bloke is found guilty about those killing matters in the Auschwitz concentration camp then regardless of his current age he should be given the appropriate legal sentence.

[tingtongfarang]

Crimes of such magnitude should not qualify for discounts based on the age of the perpetrator or how much time has elapsed since the crime was commited.

If so, what age or time elapsed is the cutoff for future crimes against humanity?

It's easy to feel sorry for a sick and frail 93 year old. I feel much more compassion for those that were murdered and their descendants who live with the memories of the horrors commited.

I agree , but think of the house of cards. Where was he. The lamb or the lion

Had to edit my post

Maybe all the officers from that time is dead, and seems like there are going for anyone there has being working there even they was young like 20-23 years. When does it has to stop. Again it's 70 years ago. What about the lady in the kitchen , the boy there was clean the floor, the boy there was taking the phone, the .... And so on

These war criminals have in many cases 3 generations of offspring who should also get a message, i have known such families and realised from first hand experience there is a communication network worldwide,

They all live with a dark cloud above their heads and try to ignore it.

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Strange reply, because if the German bloke is found guilty about those killing matters in the Auschwitz concentration camp then regardless of his current age he should be given the appropriate legal sentence.

I don't see the reply as strange. Hunting a old man for something he maybe has done for 70 years ago. When is this going to stop

[lungbing]

Well, he's obviously guilty, Thai Visa members have pronounced him so. And many have advocated

making the old man's life a misery......before he's even been to trial. Isn't that what the nazis did?

[RecklessRon]

Don't bother debating with holocaust deniers. It's like debating with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

Please don't tar tin foil hat conspiracy theorists with the same brush as holocaust deniers!

[Jingthing]

Don't bother debating with holocaust deniers. It's like debating with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

Please don't tar tin foil hat conspiracy theorists with the same brush as holocaust deniers!

There is often overlap.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[RecklessRon]

If you have ever sat down and talked to a prison camp survivor then you might have some right to suggest we forgive everyone and forget about it.

Instead of fleeing justice he could have stood up and claimed only to be a sad sack forced to do bad things. He'd have been convicted and released decades ago if he honestly only played a minor role.

Personally I think we can consider forgiving him AFTER he has paid his debt to society.

[jope]

While I share the view that forgiveness is desirable I nevertheless think that it is up to the survivors and victims' families to actually grant that forgiveness (as was pointed out before).

How can forgiveness be possible if there is no remorse? I think first admitting to the crime and then asking for forgiveness is a requirement.

A research on the activities of a Cologne Police Battalion in occupied Poland and Russia revealed that those very, very few who did not want to take part in the murdering spree were not punished, did not even get a slap on the wrist. So, generally, "order and obedience" are not an excuse. BTW, the research also showed that they targeted almost exclusively people of Jewish believe.

The "Waffen SS" is the only Nazi-organisation that is not forbidden in Germany. That is why our few Neo-Nazis always shout "glory and honor of the Waffen-SS". They actually mean NSDAP. Legally, there is nothing the police can do about it.

All crimes against humanity should be punished. And yet the holocaust sadly stands out because the mass murder was perfectly organized to an almost industrialized level of effectiveness. Even "the fasted genocide in history" (Rwanda) falls back compared to that horror (no difference for the victims, though).

Has he had nightmares during the last 70 years? Possible, but I doubt it. I assume, we all would be unpleasantly surprised, if we asked him.

The level of his involvement will be determined by the court. Although I doubt that it will come to a trial due to the age of the accused.

While I understand and share the disgust towards this person and while it makes me cringe that he will end his life peacefully I nevertheless do not think that he should be tortured or even imprisoned, simply, because I do not want to be like "them".

The crime should be investigated and it should be made public, if only to show that nothing is forgiven and nothing is forgotten.

[tw25rw]

Don't bother debating with holocaust deniers. It's like debating with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

Please don't tar tin foil hat conspiracy theorists with the same brush as holocaust deniers!

There is often overlap.

Same mentality. Just slightly different motivation.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Saan]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Nelson Mandela showed the world how to forgive.

[jope]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Strange reply, because if the German bloke is found guilty about those killing matters in the Auschwitz concentration camp then regardless of his current age he should be given the appropriate legal sentence.

I don't see the reply as strange. Hunting a old man for something he maybe has done for 70 years ago. When is this going to stop

That is easy to answer: when the last murderer is dead. That is the time everybody can move on, not one day earlier.

[tw25rw]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Strange reply, because if the German bloke is found guilty about those killing matters in the Auschwitz concentration camp then regardless of his current age he should be given the appropriate legal sentence.

I don't see the reply as strange. Hunting a old man for something he maybe has done for 70 years ago. When is this going to stop

That is easy to answer: when the last murderer is dead. That is the time everybody can move on, not one day earlier.

Or at least brought to justice, even if that is only having his crimes revealed.

[uptheos]

None of the Nazi's at Auschwitz knew what was going on.

They were all too busy baking cakes for the prisoners......the angels that they were.

This 'animal' should not be allowed to spend one hour at peace now that he has been found?

Cold cell, plank board bed, no blankets, no shoes or socks and 1 bowl of cabbage water soup a day.

Never see or hear from any member of his family ever again

His departure from this life should be the same as those who died at Auschwitz.

[tw25rw]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Nelson Mandela showed the world how to forgive.

Why forgive old Nazis? It's just a smokescreen to hide behind, just like all the assumed identities. The concepts of justice or forgiveness were alien to them.

[tw25rw]

None of the Nazi's at Auschwitz knew what was going on.

They were all too busy baking cakes for the prisoners......the angels that they were.

This 'animal' should not be allowed to spend one hour at peace now that he has been found?

Cold cell, plank board bed, no blankets, no shoes or socks and 1 bowl of cabbage water soup a day.

Never see or hear from any member of his family ever again

His departure from this life should be the same as those who died at Auschwitz.

I would settle for dragging his name through the mud and letting his grand kids know what he really did in the war.

[carstenp]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Nelson Mandela showed the world how to forgive.

Why forgive old Nazis? It's just a smokescreen to hide behind, just like all the assumed identities. The concepts of justice or forgiveness were alien to them.

You are right, but I believe people change in 70 years

[RecklessRon]

I'd like to bring up something relevant that no one else has mentioned.

They call him a 'Nazi guard' not a 'German soldier' and to me that makes all the difference.

FYI: My father fought in WWII. He was with the Canadians in Nijmegan with the Fifth Canadian Field Company. He was on the beaches on D-Day and helped liberate at least one prison camp. He was a life-long supporter of the Polish people in our small town - of which many were in the prison camps. Many forget that the Poles and Russians were also slaughtered - not only the Jewish people. I personally knew Joe Szumowski, his wife, Yadvika, and their 4 sons and 2 daughters (I dated their youngest once). They were great people. Joe and Yadvika met and married in a Nazi prison camp and had their oldest son, Hank (Henry), there. They considered themselves very luck that they lived through it. Joe suffered all his life from health problems. Dad says he was only 72 pounds when US soldiers liberated his camp. Joe was over 6 feet tall when younger but less than 5' 10" after he recovered.

I once asked my father (a British born Canadian volunteer), who rarely ever talked about his experiences during the war, how he felt about the German people. He told me he had no problem with them - only with the Nazis. He said most German soldiers were just like any other country's soldiers - just doing their job. However he HATED the Nazis. He said the reason was almost no German soldiers or civilians had any idea what was really being done in the camps but ALL the Nazis did.

Since this article claims he was a Nazi I am happy to hear they have caught him and I hope he is fully prosecuted. Once he has done his time I'll try to forgive him. Having talked in depth with Joe Szumowski about his experiences I'm not certain I could do that but I do get the Gandhi and Mandela forgiveness thing.

SO... I guess that makes me open season for all the haters, deniers, disbelievers and peaceniks so have at it!

[JacChang]

Wasn't he just taking orders?

Then who wants to be soldiers?

Blame the head, don't blame the ants.

[ableguy]

Jesus it took fifty years to nail this bas"'xx d.

[RecklessRon]

Wasn't he just taking orders?

Then who wants to be soldiers?

Blame the head, don't blame the ants.

Soldiers are not required to follow illegal orders. Those that do are as guilty as those who give them those orders.

[ableguy]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

An aging neon nazi ? Conspiracy theorist or just a looney

[jaywalker]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Following that logic, if someone were to murder a 93 year old person, they shouldn't face charges, as the "Old Codger was on his way out anyhow"

[cookee68]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

I don't want to talk more about this. For me forgiveness is the most imported thing in the world.

He was not in command, he just followed order, and that time for 70 years ago. Do you think he cut say no

He has being living with this all his live. Properly lived in he's dream, people he sees on the street remind him on the days where he was command to do what he was doing.

For me he's forgiven for he's sins, even my father in laws has forgiven people from this time, even he has lost 3 brother.

This is forgiveness.

but what if he was one of those who enjoyed what he did, how do you know how he felt at the time? you wont win this argument, he will be forgiven or not forgiven when the right time comes for him to be judged