Thammasat University bans annual commemoration of 1976 student massacre

[AleG]

And you have not summoned enough of your evidence. Because there isn't any.

All you have done like most of the sheep is name calling and false assumptions. Perhaps you should step up to the task of providing some evidence of the Thaksin/Samak link or is this just drivel like usual?

Why would I want to argue your point for you? You remember how this started? do you remember what you wrote?

The junta is part of the order that ordered the massacre, the current members may not have ordered it but they are part of that same group.

The onus is on you to provide an argument to support your assertion.

Hint: calling me unreasonable, indoctrinated and a sheep does nothing to advance your argument. (It does make you look hypocritical when accusing me of name calling though)

You also wrote:

Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem. You can't have it both ways.

So what is it? Guilt by association (where the association can be stretched as far as you see fit) is a valid argument or not?

Since in your first paragraph you clearly think it is a valid argument then you are displaying a clear double standard regarding PTP, you want to have it both ways.

You also seem very upset about people talking about PTP and Thaksin when it was you that brought them into the topic.

What I found very funny is that you would use this occasion to defend PTP/Thaksin without knowing/realizing that Thaksin had Samak as a not-so-pliable puppet PM, when Samak himself was one of the instigators of the massacre, calling for the students to be killed.

You don't see the irony? I do, it's hilarious to see people being hoisted by their own petards.

You're right it's fruitless to argue, so I'll get to the point. Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

"Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem."

[maxme]

And you have not summoned enough of your evidence. Because there isn't any.

All you have done like most of the sheep is name calling and false assumptions. Perhaps you should step up to the task of providing some evidence of the Thaksin/Samak link or is this just drivel like usual?

Why would I want to argue your point for you? You remember how this started? do you remember what you wrote?

The junta is part of the order that ordered the massacre, the current members may not have ordered it but they are part of that same group.

The onus is on you to provide an argument to support your assertion.

Hint: calling me unreasonable, indoctrinated and a sheep does nothing to advance your argument. (It does make you look hypocritical when accusing me of name calling though)

You also wrote:

Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem. You can't have it both ways.

So what is it? Guilt by association (where the association can be stretched as far as you see fit) is a valid argument or not?

Since in your first paragraph you clearly think it is a valid argument then you are displaying a clear double standard regarding PTP, you want to have it both ways.

You also seem very upset about people talking about PTP and Thaksin when it was you that brought them into the topic.

What I found very funny is that you would use this occasion to defend PTP/Thaksin without knowing/realizing that Thaksin had Samak as a not-so-pliable puppet PM, when Samak himself was one of the instigators of the massacre, calling for the students to be killed.

You don't see the irony? I do, it's hilarious to see people being hoisted by their own petards.

You're right it's fruitless to argue, so I'll get to the point. Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

"Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem."

Err... You want to elaborate? Still don't see how this points out my loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP.

[maxme]

And you have not summoned enough of your evidence. Because there isn't any.

All you have done like most of the sheep is name calling and false assumptions. Perhaps you should step up to the task of providing some evidence of the Thaksin/Samak link or is this just drivel like usual?

Why would I want to argue your point for you? You remember how this started? do you remember what you wrote?

The junta is part of the order that ordered the massacre, the current members may not have ordered it but they are part of that same group.

The onus is on you to provide an argument to support your assertion.

Hint: calling me unreasonable, indoctrinated and a sheep does nothing to advance your argument. (It does make you look hypocritical when accusing me of name calling though)

You also wrote:

Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem. You can't have it both ways.

So what is it? Guilt by association (where the association can be stretched as far as you see fit) is a valid argument or not?

Since in your first paragraph you clearly think it is a valid argument then you are displaying a clear double standard regarding PTP, you want to have it both ways.

You also seem very upset about people talking about PTP and Thaksin when it was you that brought them into the topic.

What I found very funny is that you would use this occasion to defend PTP/Thaksin without knowing/realizing that Thaksin had Samak as a not-so-pliable puppet PM, when Samak himself was one of the instigators of the massacre, calling for the students to be killed.

You don't see the irony? I do, it's hilarious to see people being hoisted by their own petards.

You're right it's fruitless to argue, so I'll get to the point. Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

"Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem."

Err... You want to elaborate? Still don't see how this points out my loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP.

I'm waiting...

[AleG]

Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

"Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem."

Err... You want to elaborate? Still don't see how this points out my loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP.

I didn't say anything about your "loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP." I said "defend PTP/Thaksin" as in asking siampolee to retract (alleged) statements injurious to the reputation of PTP.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

[jpeg]

When I was first here, I knew little of that massacre but remember a little placard kept discretely pinned just under the counter top of a little bar I used to frequent. It read 'No dictatorship in Thailand'. And look where they are now, eighteen years later.

[maxme]

Show me the statement where I defend Thaksin or Samak and then you can say "I told you so".

"Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem."

Err... You want to elaborate? Still don't see how this points out my loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP.

I didn't say anything about your "loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP." I said "defend PTP/Thaksin" as in asking siampolee to retract (alleged) statements injurious to the reputation of PTP.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

Here's a tip. To attack one side doesn't automatically mean you belong to the other.

Read my previous posts in regards to political matter, they don't state I defended any of political parties or persons you so kindly assumed I did. But the sheep that you are, is so blind that you cannot look past red and yellow. Once you have matured enough, then we can have a talk, like grown ups occasionally do.

[AleG]

I didn't say anything about your "loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP." I said "defend PTP/Thaksin" as in asking siampolee to retract (alleged) statements injurious to the reputation of PTP.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

Here's a tip. To attack one side doesn't automatically mean you belong to the other.

Read my previous posts in regards to political matter, they don't state I defended any of political parties or persons you so kindly assumed I did. But the sheep that you are, is so blind that you cannot look past red and yellow. Once you have matured enough, then we can have a talk, like grown ups occasionally do.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

And the answer is... no.

[maxme]

I didn't say anything about your "loving devotion for Thaksin, Samak or PTP." I said "defend PTP/Thaksin" as in asking siampolee to retract (alleged) statements injurious to the reputation of PTP.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

Here's a tip. To attack one side doesn't automatically mean you belong to the other.

Read my previous posts in regards to political matter, they don't state I defended any of political parties or persons you so kindly assumed I did. But the sheep that you are, is so blind that you cannot look past red and yellow. Once you have matured enough, then we can have a talk, like grown ups occasionally do.

Now let's see if you can reply without an ad hominem attack or a deliberate distortion of what I wrote....

And the answer is... no.

Nah, have that weakness with ignorant people who just argue for the sake of argue and not the facts.

[jayboy]

And you have not summoned enough of your evidence. Because there isn't any.

All you have done like most of the sheep is name calling and false assumptions. Perhaps you should step up to the task of providing some evidence of the Thaksin/Samak link or is this just drivel like usual?

Why would I want to argue your point for you? You remember how this started? do you remember what you wrote?

The junta is part of the order that ordered the massacre, the current members may not have ordered it but they are part of that same group.

The onus is on you to provide an argument to support your assertion.

Hint: calling me unreasonable, indoctrinated and a sheep does nothing to advance your argument. (It does make you look hypocritical when accusing me of name calling though)

You also wrote:

Or do you want to retract your previous statements that all the PTP members and their followers are either corrupt or part of the problem. You can't have it both ways.

So what is it? Guilt by association (where the association can be stretched as far as you see fit) is a valid argument or not?

Since in your first paragraph you clearly think it is a valid argument then you are displaying a clear double standard regarding PTP, you want to have it both ways.

You also seem very upset about people talking about PTP and Thaksin when it was you that brought them into the topic.

What I found very funny is that you would use this occasion to defend PTP/Thaksin without knowing/realizing that Thaksin had Samak as a not-so-pliable puppet PM, when Samak himself was one of the instigators of the massacre, calling for the students to be killed.

You don't see the irony? I do, it's hilarious to see people being hoisted by their own petards.

What's hilarious in your invocation of Samak is that you seem not to comprehend that in 1976 he was a disgraceful though very marginal player.The main protagonists in the massacre were the feudal and military elements that back the current Junta.

[rubl]

What's hilarious in your invocation of Samak is that you seem not to comprehend that in 1976 he was a disgraceful though very marginal player.The main protagonists in the massacre were the feudal and military elements that back the current Junta.

That's close to defaming the late Samak. Read the wiki page about the late Samak

with

"Samak had played a crucial role in instigating the violence that ensued against the protestors, whom he considered to be disloyal communists.

and on the Thammasat University Massacre.

Be careful though. The issue is still sensitive in Thailand and some consider it close to LM.

[Johpa]

It was a military coup, had nothing to do with Thaksin.

It was a political coup led by the military. And that is why the anti-corruption campaign is focusing upon activities that funded Thaksin's political machine.

But of course the shootings at Thammasat are not the first gunshots to be expunged from Thai history.

[rubl]

It was a military coup, had nothing to do with Thaksin.

It was a political coup led by the military. And that is why the anti-corruption campaign is focusing upon activities that funded Thaksin's political machine.

But of course the shootings at Thammasat are not the first gunshots to be expunged from Thai history.

not even by only the Military it would seem.

Anyway, under the circumstances I doubt a commemoration could be held without some hotheads drawing parallels to 2014. Understandably to cancel the event seems a better choice than to just let it be and risk escalation.

[jayboy]

It was a military coup, had nothing to do with Thaksin.

It was a political coup led by the military. And that is why the anti-corruption campaign is focusing upon activities that funded Thaksin's political machine.

But of course the shootings at Thammasat are not the first gunshots to be expunged from Thai history.

not even by only the Military it would seem.

Anyway, under the circumstances I doubt a commemoration could be held without some hotheads drawing parallels to 2014. Understandably to cancel the event seems a better choice than to just let it be and risk escalation.

Says more about your comprehension of democratic values than anything else.Shameful.

[tbthailand]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

[rubl]

It was a military coup, had nothing to do with Thaksin.

It was a political coup led by the military. And that is why the anti-corruption campaign is focusing upon activities that funded Thaksin's political machine.

But of course the shootings at Thammasat are not the first gunshots to be expunged from Thai history.

not even by only the Military it would seem.

Anyway, under the circumstances I doubt a commemoration could be held without some hotheads drawing parallels to 2014. Understandably to cancel the event seems a better choice than to just let it be and risk escalation.

Says more about your comprehension of democratic values than anything else.Shameful.

Well, look in the mirror. I doubt you'd be one of those hotheads. It would seem you rather have another 'incident' to have your 'democratic' views confirmed while watching things on television.

Shameful, really.

[rubl]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

[jayboy]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

More gross stupidity

1. Clearly ignorant of the CPT's history before and after 1976, or you would not have made the asinine "at it again" comment.Most are aware of the deranged communist support for Thaksin rumours, but equally most would have dismissed the nonsense.Even your hero Suthep never made this accusation, too ridiculous even for him.

2.Missed the point completely on the 1976 comparison.Nobody is seriously comparing the tragedy of the Thammasat victims with the fate of redshirts or other 2010 groups.Many however have rightly pointed out the similarities between the forces behind the bloodshed in both instances.

[rubl]

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

More gross stupidity

1. Clearly ignorant of the CPT's history before and after 1976, or you would not have made the asinine "at it again" comment.Most are aware of the deranged communist support for Thaksin rumours, but equally most would have dismissed the nonsense.Even your hero Suthep never made this accusation, too ridiculous even for him.

2.Missed the point completely on the 1976 comparison.Nobody is seriously comparing the tragedy of the Thammasat victims with the fate of redshirts or other 2010 groups.Many however have rightly pointed out the similarities between the forces behind the bloodshed in both instances.

You seem to have missed the 'rumour has it' in your fury to deny. Also you seem to forget that the UDD structure as imposed by Ms. Thida/Dr. weng has a certain 'red' aspect.

Anyway the 1976 protests were by students fighting for democratic freedom in a very conservative society struggling with communism as was still an issue in those days.

The 2010 'peaceful protests, not terrorism' was about a criminal fugitive who even once chose as Thailands PM a man who stated on television that 'only one had died'.

[maxme]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

Please elaborate. Are you saying that those who died 2010 deserved it?

[jayboy]

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

More gross stupidity

1. Clearly ignorant of the CPT's history before and after 1976, or you would not have made the asinine "at it again" comment.Most are aware of the deranged communist support for Thaksin rumours, but equally most would have dismissed the nonsense.Even your hero Suthep never made this accusation, too ridiculous even for him.

2.Missed the point completely on the 1976 comparison.Nobody is seriously comparing the tragedy of the Thammasat victims with the fate of redshirts or other 2010 groups.Many however have rightly pointed out the similarities between the forces behind the bloodshed in both instances.

You seem to have missed the 'rumour has it' in your fury to deny. Also you seem to forget that the UDD structure as imposed by Ms. Thida/Dr. weng has a certain 'red' aspect.

Anyway the 1976 protests were by students fighting for democratic freedom in a very conservative society struggling with communism as was still an issue in those days.

The 2010 'peaceful protests, not terrorism' was about a criminal fugitive who even once chose as Thailands PM a man who stated on television that 'only one had died'.

It's difficult to respond because you are not only ignorant ( you should be aware CPT members from the 70's are found in all sections of society, even in relatively recent right wing street protests) but also confused (taking bar talk rumour as fact, conflating communist sympathies (for an arch capitalist!) with liberal inclinations for a fairer society etc.

In 1976 it wasn't society at large that was reactionary,it was as now the unelected elites.

It's also fatuous to invoke Samak - an opportunist whose royalist background and sympathies are known to all - except it appears a few old foreigners with time on their hands (but not enough apparently to do any serious reading on Thai history/politics.

[tbthailand]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

<snip>

The generals who led the campaigns against the 'communist threat' and crackdown in 76 went on to stay involved in (control is a better word) the politics of Thailand throughout the 80's, in the 90's, and into this century. One of them has been pivotal throughout all of this repression and you might know him as the head of a rather powerful council.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Jai Dee
Insult deleted

[Puwa]

Those with an interest in this topic might like to read Katherine Bowie's excellent but disturbing history of the reactionary Village Scouts movement. She discusses the role the Scouts played at Thammasat and elsewhere.

For some reason I can't paste the Amazon link, but the title is "Rituals of National Loyalty."

[Jai Dee]

A number of personal insults have been removed from this thread.

The next person who posts an insult gets a holiday...

Be warned.

[rubl]

The Thai military of the 2010s is not the same as the Thai military of the 1970s, in their politics or actions.

Just as I do not blame my ancestors for the genocide they commited against Aboriginal Australians in the past, I do not blame the current military for the actions the military undertook in the 1960s and 1970s.

"Thammasat University's administrators have preemptively banned any political events commemorating the 1976 massacre that took place inside the university on 6 October, presumably to comply with the military junta’s ban on all political activities." - it will be interesting to see whether the "administrators" will be "asked" to reverse their decision by those with power.

actually, the military of 2010 is the same as the military of 76 in both their politics and their actions. There is a verifiable continuity throughout.

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

Please elaborate. Are you saying that those who died 2010 deserved it?

No, I don't. The student in 1976 wanted more democracy. The UDD leaders only convinced their supporters it was about an illegal government while helping a criminal 'elite' fugitive abroad.

Edited September 18, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

Even some of the communists in 1976 were at it again in 2010 rumour has it, but this time fighting for an elite type of figure. Verifiable as well.

To compare 1976 with 2010 is demeaning to those who died in 1976.

More gross stupidity

1. Clearly ignorant of the CPT's history before and after 1976, or you would not have made the asinine "at it again" comment.Most are aware of the deranged communist support for Thaksin rumours, but equally most would have dismissed the nonsense.Even your hero Suthep never made this accusation, too ridiculous even for him.

2.Missed the point completely on the 1976 comparison.Nobody is seriously comparing the tragedy of the Thammasat victims with the fate of redshirts or other 2010 groups.Many however have rightly pointed out the similarities between the forces behind the bloodshed in both instances.

You seem to have missed the 'rumour has it' in your fury to deny. Also you seem to forget that the UDD structure as imposed by Ms. Thida/Dr. weng has a certain 'red' aspect.

Anyway the 1976 protests were by students fighting for democratic freedom in a very conservative society struggling with communism as was still an issue in those days.

The 2010 'peaceful protests, not terrorism' was about a criminal fugitive who even once chose as Thailands PM a man who stated on television that 'only one had died'.

It's difficult to respond because you are not only ignorant ( you should be aware CPT members from the 70's are found in all sections of society, even in relatively recent right wing street protests) but also confused (taking bar talk rumour as fact, conflating communist sympathies (for an arch capitalist!) with liberal inclinations for a fairer society etc.

In 1976 it wasn't society at large that was reactionary,it was as now the unelected elites.

It's also fatuous to invoke Samak - an opportunist whose royalist background and sympathies are known to all - except it appears a few old foreigners with time on their hands (but not enough apparently to do any serious reading on Thai history/politics.

'not only ignorant' ?

Jayboy, you tend to talk like those real left wing labour chaps and communists who were so active in the 50-sh till 70-sh in Europe. It's all about 'unelected elites' with you, just like the UDD in 2010 with their Thaksin hero. A Thaksin who had no problems (at first) selecting the late Samak even with his opportunistic attitude, maybe he selected because of that attitude ?

The topic is the ban on October 1976 commemorations which under the current circumstances makes sense. We do not want some hotheads or agitators provoking the military while still under Martial Law. That would be almost guaranteed disaster.

Of course if you think a few more dead would help 'the cause'