Work online with marriage

[carlpipe]

I see a lot of recent discussion about working online for an international company...

The "digital nomad" announcement seems to me to really only apply to people staying short term, but what about someone intending to stay longer and get married?

I currently work from home in Australia for a reputable company on contract and they have no issues with the idea of me moving to Thailand and continuing to work for them.

I've met a nice Thai lady and we plan to marry and live in Thailand for the longer term.

It appears there are three options for us to consider?

Comments and clarification on our understanding would be greatly appreciated!

1) Non-Immi O with 90 days exit/entry + getting a new visa outside Thailand every year

I see references to people getting a Non-Immi O from Savannaket without showing financial proof.

Under this scenario I think:

* I can't get a work permit but may not need one as I wouldn't be working with Thai companies or employees or clients?

* Would need to continue paying tax as an Australian sole trader

* Would not need to pay Thai Tax (or would this depend on the 183 day thing? i.e. let's say I spent 200 days in Thailand - would I pay 200/365 tax in Thailand and 165/365 in Australia? Or is more about where you spent or store the money?)

2) Non-Immi O with 90 day reports + simply extending the visa every year

And we spoke to immigration the other day about our scenario and they said I can simply get a certificate from Australian embassy. The Australian embassy said this is simply a Stat Dec.

The immigration officer said if I took this approach I would need to create a Thai account and transfer 40,000 per month for 3 months prior to applying for the Non-Immi O (plus every month after that).

They also said this would mean I don't need to do the exit/entries or have a work permit to do the 90 day reports.

Under this scenario I think:

* the three points above also apply

* it seems odd to me that people would go to the trouble of doing 90 days exit/entries just to avoid showing financial proof if it's just a stat dec?

3) Form a Thai company with 4 employees

I understand this option and have a friend here who has already done this who can help us.

However I will struggle to justify the 4 employees... yet... in future we plan to build a small resort / bungalow and would like to delay the business registration until that point.

Ideally we'd like option 2 for maybe 3-5 years until we can afford to build the resort but we have concerns about my work permit and tax in the meantime.

Please help us make the legal and safe decision.

[Mario2008]

You cannot work legally in Thailand without a work permit, which you will not get for working online for a compnay in another country.

Your only legal option is 3 and form a Thai company that is hired by your current employer, with all consequences involved regarding taxes and benefits (healthcare, pension ?).

[ubonjoe]

Getting extension of is far better than making border runs every 90 days.

For the income option to get the extension all you need is the statutory declaration. There is no requirement to show the 40k baht coming in for 3 months before applying.

Working online is still a grey area as to whether you need a work permit or not. Many people do it and get away with it by keeping a low profile (under the radar).

You only have to pay tax on money you bring into the country from working. You have to declare your income they will not come looking for you to pay it. Tax info here: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Dependent upon where you apply for the work permit you may not need but 2 Thai employees and one of those can be your wife if you form a partnership with her. You also only need 1 million baht of registered capital to get the work permit instead of 2 million because your are married to a Thai.

[carlpipe]

OK thanks Mario - I suspected that may be the case

So why all the discussion about people going to Savannaket? I assume these people are working illegally then?

Also, what if my Australian company hired my Thai company?

[carlpipe]

Ok thanks Joe - sure does appear to be a grey area

If the stat dec is sufficient, then in theory I wouldn't need to declare income at all in Thailand for now and therefore no tax for now either?

I could continue to pay Australian tax until we were ready to build our bungalows/homestay?

EDIT: I just read the 180 day thing from your link - thanks for the link

How do I declare the income? Seems that if I don't take my Option 3 (form business) then declaring income may be asking for trouble?

[ubonjoe]

There are some people that prefer the multiple entry non-o instead of the extension. Others get them because they cannot meet the financial requirements. Some are working on a rotation outside the country and are never here long enough to get the extension.

The banks don't report funds coming into the country to the revenue department. So you have to declare it you yourself.

Your Thai company could be hired by the company in Oz to supply your services.

[carlpipe]

Thanks again Mario and Joe!

Food for thought.... clearly option 3 is the best for the long term.... was just hoping to delay it until I actually operate our Thai business

Seems I can't delay it unless I become a tax cheat or illegal worker

[carlpipe]

I guess you know I'm already thinking this and understand if you don't want to answer this.....

If I was to delay the business registration for a year or two..... would it be advisable to go for option 1 or 2?

1) Non-Immi O without financial proof from Savannaket + 90 day exit/entry

OR

2) Non-Immi O with financial proof (stat dec from australian embassy) + 90 day reports

[ubonjoe]

Both are the same for what you propose. Getting the extension is the best for convenience reasons.

[carlpipe]

Joe, much appreciated for taking the time to help with my personal situation

Time to do the budget again and see what I can come up with

Would you mind if ran another scenario by you? The reason for delay is we are still saving for our homestay idea.

In the meantime, we considered an alternative approach. Her elderly father has a rubber farm with employees and dreams of one of his kids taking over for him, except he only has girls who don't want it and I would be taking a serious pay cut to work on the rubber with them. Therefore we considered the possibility of me registering a business together with my wife once married and employing the rubber workers as my 4 employees.

Do you know if I need to actually create a new entity? Or could the scenario above be a possible solution?

i.e. I continue my job online and manage the rubber farm so father-in-law can finally retire (he will love that!), I pay the rubber workers from the business, rubber sales go through the business. I realise there isn't much money in it but at first glance it appears they may be able to sell enough to pay for themselves, thus meaning I only need to capitalise the business initially and have little or no monthly ongoing cost? (and probably no profit either but at least it gives me a work permit).

My concern here would also be that my work permit would be from the Thai business running the rubber while my actual income will come from my work in Australia.

No doubt there a numerous holes in this concept which I am yet to consider?

P.S. Where do I post your thankyou singhas to?

[khunpa]

I was in exactly the same situation as you and I went for option 3, because I wanted to do the right thing. Let me say is in short: The whole process was a total nightmare!!!!!!

All I learnt from that process, was how much the Thai-officials do not like foreigners working here and how they in every aspect, try to get money off you, although you are following the law and rules. I have made companies in many countries, but have never seen anything as corrupt and hateful towards foreigners, as this place. Unless you are a huge company, you are basically not welcome here.

Thailand is simply not geared for (or interested in) small entrepreneur businesses with foreigners working in them. At least that is my experience from trying. You try to do the right thing here in Thailand and it will only hurt you, one way or the other. For sure do not expect gratitude for wanting to do it right.

Have you considered the option of e.g. your Thai-wife owning the company and you having a company in one of the surrounding countries instead? Then stay here on the marriage visa and simply work in and get paid from the foreign company and pay your taxes there.

[ubonjoe]

You could do it what you wrote about.

A company or partnership can be registered to conduct more than one type of business.

You would be limited on what you can have as you job description when you get your work permit since farming is a restricted profession but you could be a manager.

Since you only need to submit paperwork for the work permit the tax records and such are not all that stringent.

You could look for info here in this business guide. It has info on taxes company registration and etc. http://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/AW_BOI-BusinessGuide2014-20130905-web_36759.pdf

[carlpipe]

Thanks Khunpa - I thought I wouldn't be alone here

I'm not sure I entirely understand this:

"Have you considered the option of e.g. your Thai-wife owning the company and you having a company in one of the surrounding countries instead? Then stay here on the marriage visa and simply work in and get paid from the foreign company and pay your taxes there."

I already work in a foreign company? My aussie business is contracted to provide service to another.

I thought she needs to own the company 51% + anyway (or another Thai). Are you suggesting she starts a company as 100% owner (which I assume is cheaper) and I contract to her?

I don't understand

Do you mind if I ask what industry your business is in?

[carlpipe]

Thanks again Joe!

I thought that may be the case i.e. it would probably work but is technically still bending the rules by doing my real work in Australia while using the farm as a front

p.s. your links are soooo helpful

[ubonjoe]

Thanks again Joe!

I thought that may be the case i.e. it would probably work but is technically still bending the rules by doing my real work in Australia while using the farm as a front

p.s. your links are soooo helpful

You situation is different than Khunpa since he may of been setting up a company to get a work permit and an extension of stay for working.

You can set up a 51/49 partnership with you wife and get your work permit.

No worry about your extension since it is based upon marriage not working.

[carlpipe]

"You can set up a 51/49 partnership with you wife and get your work permit."

Do you mean partnership with no employees as opposed to a company with 4 employees?

[JLCrab]

If OP gets a multi-entry non-IMM O visa or extension with multiple re-entry permit he could then spend enough time ex-Thailand each month in a neighboring country such that he could say that all his work for the Australian company is performed outside of Thailand and that he his time spent in Thailand is with his wife and pursuing his home-stay plans.

[ubonjoe]

You can set up the partnership and register it with the needed one million baht capital to get your work permit.

You will still need Thai employees but the number needed can vary by where you apply for the work permit. It should only be 2 and your wife can be one of them but some offices will want 4.

[ubonjoe]

If OP gets a multi-entry non-IMM O visa or extension with multiple re-entry permit he could then spend enough time ex-Thailand each month in a neighboring country such that he could say that all his work for the Australian company is performed outside of Thailand and that he his time spent in Thailand is with his wife and pursuing his home-stay plans.

Why?

[JLCrab]

Because if he performs his work ex-Thailand then he doesn't have to go through all of the rube Goldberg scenarios mention above.

[ubonjoe]

Because if he performs his work ex-Thailand then he doesn't have to go through all of the rube Goldberg scenarios mention above.

What is rube goldberg about it.

It is certainly not that complicated and much better than spending time away from his family. Plus the costs of it.

[JLCrab]

Setting up a company in Thailand so he can work for a company in Australia sounds pretty circuitous to me. How much time he would have to spend? who knows? Maybe he handles payables and receivables for the company and only has intensive work a few days at the end and the beginning of each month. He doesn't say.

[carlpipe]

Thanks JL

I'm very thankful for the varied opinions here - all very helpful

I manage an online learning organisation - course building - customer support etc.generally 5-6 hours a day M-F

I just want to be with my girl hassle free for 3-5 years up north until we can afford to build our homestay on the beach - but realise "hassle free" just ain't gunna happen so it's more a case of "hassle minimisation"

[carlpipe]

p.s. today I learned who rube goldberg was - I may just use some of these cartoons in my courses

[hugolars]

You dont need a work permit or pay taxes in Thailand if you are not making money from Thai economy.

You are simply not a Thai citizen. Don't listen to anybody telling you otherwise.

Forget about starting a thai company etc. You need a Thai company only if you are conducting business in Thailand.

Dont complicate it. Everything is legal and illegal in Thailand. The system is setup to screw the farangs.

Visa is a complete different issue.

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic rant posts that also had comments that are Thai bashing have been removed.

[farang000999]

What is the "digital nomad announcement"?

[ubonjoe]

What is the "digital nomad announcement"?

There was no announcement in reality. It was just a comment about by an immigration officer about it was OK for tourists to do some work online while they are here.

[farang000999]

Was this an official Thai Visa topic/posting? Link? Thank you.

[carlpipe]

Hi farang000999

I am referring to this thread here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/753621-digital-nomad-online-workers-permission/

Which leads onto a second one on the last page

Although I tend to agree with Joe - I don't think this is really an announcement as such