Thai PM questions if 'tourists in bikinis' safe after Koh Tao murders

[BigC]

Seems to me that the General is running out of rope. At least as far as directing the onus of this event onto the Farang Community goes. It is looking more and more like this was a homegrown assault and anything other than a perfunctory investigation is likely to reveal this in short order. I immediately got the sense from the General's statements that he is scrambling to perhaps lessen the consequences for whomever (perhaps already known) winds up being assigned blame for this crime. Unfortunately, by ill-advisedly implying that "bikini-ware" might somehow have been able to provoke it, he has let slip into the purview of the public some pretty outmoded thinking. The same type of thinking that has allowed (no doubt to the glee of the HiSos) alcohol to continue being viewed as a justifiable mitigator of responsibility in just about every category of crime here.

Reading between the lines of these most recent statements, there is a rather transparent attempt to imbue an article of clothing with a will which we are expected to believe somehow compels individuals to do what they otherwise would not do. It is tragic when such a selfish and brutal act also serves to bring to the forefront all the reasons why a simplistic patriarch devoid of functional understanding of what makes societies or their members tick is decidedly not what is needed at this stage in Thailand's development. Each day is dawning a bit darker in LOS and it is an absolute shame. As a consequence, the tourism industry, upon which the economy in large part depends, will continue its implosion under the weight of a relentless accumulation of incompetence. If this is all our Thai brethren can expect from their self-appointed overlords, I fear greatly for everyone going forward. What a drag.

Personally I would rather the case remain in solved than arresting the wrong person

At least unsolved until they have real evidence

Or they could catch the wrong person and the real person shall still be out there laughing to themselves

If they don't have a suspect by now then the chances are slipping away

Also the man who left on a 0600 am boat must have some information that can help

Maybe he sore the whole thing and ran for his life

Either way he shall know when he last sore them

Koh Tao is a very small island win not much resources when it comes to security. This murder is tragic but mustered happen everywhere

On your street in your own country in the area. 1 mile from your home

The real test comes is what happens after

A statement saying that bikinis can insight murder tells me there are some sick people out there who reckon that a bikini is enough reason to murder someone

This is what I mean about the media

Did he really say that or was it taken out of context

For example he might have given his own thoughts as to bikinis but not in a way that he said that bikinis are to blame

For example if he wrote it like this " some people when they see people in bikinis and wearing little clothing in the past have been targeted and raped" that might not mean that he reckons that bikinis were to blame

Maybe he was just stating a fact

Maybe letting people know that sometimes women in bikinis are targeted

That's it

[lvr181]

But "can they be safe in bikinis... unless they are not beautiful?" he said The PM does have a sense of "humour", even in these trying times.

What ever the reason for the murder it is still not an excuse! RIP young persons.

Edit: Grammar

Edited September 18, 2014 by lvr181

[Baerboxer]

Don't get me wrong, I admire and applaud what he is trying to do for the country. BUT, how does being the prime minister not make him a politician?

Same as Yingluck isn't a politician. I once helped a guy who'd been knocked off his motorbike, didn't make me a doctor.

Neither were trained politicians with oodles of empirical experience. Neither were used to making the weasley, patronizing, lots of words no meaning, double speak associated with most of the so called "world leaders".

poor anology, helping someone, or gave them medical treatment as in First Aid? No it doesn't make you a Doctor, it makes you a first responder who clearly knew what they were doing other wise you'd not have gon to their aid.

If you put yourself forwards for the PM's position when there were no objections, then you had damn well better now what you're doing, it isn't a game, and it's utter crap that the General doesn't know how to be a Politician, how do you think he got to the position he was in when he put the coup into motion? Senior Staff officers have to deal with Politicians, and the General has been dealing with them for decades, so spare us the "he doesn't know much about politics and how to be a politician.. baloney!!

Organizational politics exist in all types of organization. Some of the most "political" organizations I've been associated with were martial arts bodies in the UK - even worse than local football clubs! Business organizations, NGO's, schools, all have political elements to their individual culture.

Military has its own unique cultures - navy, army, air force, regiments all have their own, and sub cultures within units etc.

Being part of those, and rising to senior levels in any of them requires an awareness of politics and some skills.

However, to suggest they are on a par with "professional" politicians, backed up by research teams and spin doctors is indeed baloney!

I wouldn't call any politician a professional, as they all came from different backgrounds, and entered politics through choice, many are lawyers, Doctors etc, especially in the UK, now.. Thailand isn't disimilar with many Politicians coming from the same types of backgrounds too, they all had careers elsewhere before entering politics..

And heaven forbid I was suggesting they were on par with UK "Professional Politicians" has a sort of weird conotation to that, is there such a thing as a non professional one?

So Thailand cabinet Ministers and politicians don't have deputies and assistants then? if that is the case, then there is definately a case to answer on the Bosch Microphone deal then, as they had quite a lot on order, compared to the amount of cabinet members

Do you honestly believe that the General/PM doesn't have his own spin doctors, and researchers and assistants??

Notice I put parenthesis around the word professional when applying it to politicians. What do you think that conveys?

Some enter politics as their chosen career, regardless of previous jobs and qualifications. They are doing it for money and advancement.. There used to be a time when local councilors, parish council members etc were local people with jobs outside politics. They were still politicians and many were members of the main parties but they weren't in it for the money. Many were actually trying to something for their communities.

Now, regarding the PM here. I would suggest that in his short time in office, and the apparent extensive use of military personnel, then his close aides will also have been brought across from the military. Unlike his predecessors he didn't have a well organized, experienced, PR machine to draw on, including some very expensive foreign lobbying firms and lawyers (although they still made a balls up of it, deferring to the "ice cream gang" apparently). The military personnel will not have anything like the skill sets required, and it will take time for the PM to build a cadre of trusted press officers etc.

[hawker9000]

If "immigration officials" can be excused for voicing "off the cuff" inaccuracies during their focused attempts to clarify immigration matters, I don't know why such a big deal should be made about the General's off the cuff remark about a current news story. And I don't think a whole lot should be read into it. Certainly it doesn't hold a candle to the verbal blunders which have been routine in Washington, DC for, oh, about the last six years.

[ClutchClark]

If "immigration officials" can be excused for voicing "off the cuff" inaccuracies during their focused attempts to clarify immigration matters, I don't know why such a big deal should be made about the General's off the cuff remark about a current news story. And I don't think a whole lot should be read into it. Certainly it doesn't hold a candle to the verbal blunders which have been routine in Washington, DC for, oh, about the last six years.

More like the last 14.

[justjen]

So the pm says that people on a beach holiday should not wear bikinis in case they get raped and murdered.

But I suppose it's OK for Thai girls to walk around in tiny shorts and mini skirts with high spiked heels and they are not being provocative.

Another example of disregard for visitors to the country by implying it was the victim's fault for being savagely raped and murdered.

What a buffoon he is. Someone needs to put a cork in his mouth.

[thhMan]

There was an old Aussie woman that was murdered a while back, while walking home.

There was no "bikini" to point the finger at.

It will be a good step forward for Thailand when they admit things instead of looking for a scapegoat, whether it be a murdering Thai or Bikinis...

[mrblue]

this is exactly what I thought when I read the news of the little girl raped and killed on the train... :/

[lucjoker]

"can they be safe in bikinis... unless they are not beautiful?"

Yes they can be safe ,until a predator passes their path,and by now it's

time to know this, or are more examples needed ?

Was this "predator" arroused by just seeing a bikkini?

Or by some other things done behind the rocks at night ?

I have no problems with that ,but others might loose controll.

The PM, hit the nail,allthough sounding verry harsh .

[Dah fahrang]

General Prayuth is only a bit more than a year older than I am, but at times he sounds like my father.

And he is a lot older than my five year old grandson, but at times sounds a lot like him.

[Liverpool Lew]

Aha! It's all getting clearer now - it's The Duke of Edinburgh who has taken over Thailand!

[jesimps]

What we have here is a somewhat conservative man expressing his opinion which since he's PM he shouldn't. As politician he still has much to learn.

Then maybe he shouldn't have become PM, or at least not done so until he could get qualified enough for the job to be able to get elected by the Thai people.

He didn't want to, he was persuaded that the country needed him, a non-politician rather than someone of the lot which couldn't even agree on the colour of an orange if their life depended on it.

Mind you, with all good intentions and the very helpful suggestions of especially TVF members he might improve to the point of being the favorite again for the position late next year.

Persuaded by who, the Democrats, the Bangkok amart and his army chums?

[pizzachang]

"Tourists in bikinis" should be "safe" if you want tourists at all. I would venture that if this turns out to be the "reason" someone murdered 2 people, then the "religion of peace" might the underlying cause. Either this was a robbery or rape gone bad or the motive was jealousy....I have seen signs in Hawaii saying NO NUDITY at beach access points. Hope they catch the perps soon.

[outsider]

Quotes:

"His statement appeared to echo others made to reporters on Tuesday in which he questioned the behaviour of the murder victims as well as the perpetrators.";

"Thailand is desperate to avoid further damage to the nation's lucrative tourism industry, which has been battered in recent months after a prolonged political crisis ended in a coup.";

"Prayut on Tuesday urged investigators to conclude the cases "swiftly" and raised concern over the impact on the country's image.";

"With the start of the tourist high season just two months away, the junta had vowed to restore the nation's reputation as the "Land of Smiles", embarking on a clean-up of resorts after a series of complaints about scams, assaults and even police extortion."

Really, are these your only concerns, General, Sir? Would you have said the same things if you personally knew the victims, sir?

[Benmart]

Every word, written or spoken, is subject to critique by those, who sit comfortably in their chairs and pass judgement with little first hand knowledge.

I read, digest and acknowledge that I don't know the facts, nor do I have the answers to this tragic event.

I do know that two people have died and have grieving families mourning their deaths.

RIP dear people.

[catinthehat]

One could suggest that the PM may refrain from further comments as such. Otherwise it will only make the removal of his foot from same more difficult.

[Regyai]

Seems like a 'crackdown' on beachwear is all thats needed to absolve the 'Land Of Shame' of this one then

[thailiketoo]

Every word, written or spoken, is subject to critique by those, who sit comfortably in their chairs and pass judgement with little first hand knowledge.

I read, digest and acknowledge that I don't know the facts, nor do I have the answers to this tragic event.

I do know that two people have died and have grieving families mourning their deaths.

RIP dear people.

The topic of the thread is, "Thai PM questions if 'tourists in bikinis' safe after Koh Tao murders." You have the quote from the PM that motivated the topic. That's the only fact. What else do you want?

[tullynagardy]

Many typical TV comments about his comments. All with Western mind sets. Can't blame them, they are Westerners.

But the General is Thai, and his mindset is rooted in Thai culture. Similarly, we can't blame him for this. I don't see that him being in the military all his life has much to do with it. Many Thais are pretty shocked when they see Western women in bikinis on the beach.

What is all this bullshit about Thais being ultra conservative against nudity?

Do the locals look appalled here? Virtually every party in Issan takes this format with bikini clad girls. Issan is ironically the region where most of the TVF coup mongerers live, despite their cringeworthy claims of marriage to hiso princesses.

Just to counter further the inevitable "if you hung around rich Chinese Thais like myself you would understand" I`ve been around these mega rich Thai students countless times in London and many of them dress equally slutty. Have a look at these hiso types at TSQ club in London - https://www.facebook.com/tsqclub/photos_stream- I suppose the general would also suggest these girls were fair game for some "surprise sex" because they weren`t dressed like nuns?

The lengths some will go on here to defend their great leader is genuinely disturbing.

The lengths some will go to turn an unfortunate off the cuff remark into an excuse to use these deaths into a pro Shinawatra rally make me sick. Talk about the General being insensitive, you guys could teach him a thing or two.

Yet I didn`t even mention Shinawatra once in my post. My post pointed out Thai society was not conservative regarding nudity as previous posts suggested. As a father myself of a UK female, this story bothered me.

It seems my comment on coup mongerers hit a raw nerve for you and that bellend rubl as well. Sorry about that, we all believe you aren`t really 65 and married to a hooker, honest.

[ratcatcher]

Seems like a 'crackdown' on beachwear is all thats needed to absolve the 'Land Of Shame' of this one then

You mean this sort of "crack down" or is this a "crack up"?

[ratcatcher]

As an afterthought, some men when beachin' might be better seen with a bikini.

[arisaje]

Someone needs to learn the art of tact and diplomacy and not blaming everyone else for problems of their own making.

My respect for the Gen is falling rapidly.

But "can they be safe in bikinis... unless they are not beautiful?".....is he saying what i think he is?

So only beautiful girls in bikini's are at risk of being attacked....?, But you'll be fine wearing a bikini if you are not beautiful, or you are over-weight.

This is a rather knee jerk reaction i think, to the sudden spotlight being put on Thailand. But i must admit the Police system seems to work here when it needs to. Maybe the Western Journalists should start reporting all the other murders, balcony falls etc. etc.

[umbanda]

In many South American countries, hotels by the ocean have security personnel on the beach to "protect" its open minded guest from local curiosity and to avoid problems, and in the US people only can be "open minded" in restricted areas. I consider my wife a modern conservative Thai woman, and she is shocked by takes on Western movies showing naked bodies, sex, and passional kissing. And she cannot understand parcial nudity, like on the Brazilian Carnival and beaches. She is a beautiful woman, and I am Brazillian. I will love to see her wearing sexy oufits and tangas, but in Thailand women showing afection and its bodies in public, are considered prostitutes, scorts, etc, etc, and its also againts Buddhist traditions. Why in the world I will insist in her to feel different, or put myself in the position to show my wife in other way, and not in what she is. A decent Thai woman.

I have 2 beautiful mature married daughters in Brazil that frequents the beach practically naked, alone or with her families, and it is totally normal there, and they are planning in visit Thailand. My first advice will be, no Brazilian bikinis here on public beaches, only by the hotel pool.

When I move to the US in 1993, and I used a sunga by the pool for first time, that is a "bikini" for men very common in Brazil, my American wife make me change it, and never to use it again....She was a very modern and well traveled woman. I used In Europe and she was topless. It is not about rules, It all about differences in culture, and common sense....but.for some people only ruling works. Like it or not.

It's not about culture, it's about shifting the blame.

I can see the PM telling his young daughters..." If you wants to avoid rape in Thailand, please dress properly and not be alone with men when you still single"...why?..because even educated Thai young men believes that women doing that are asking for sex..and Thai men feels bad if rejected..and also they know that rape never will be reported to police by a young Thai woman...Thai police are Thai men..don't? and Thai women will hide the event if they can...

In Thailand. like so many other countries, believe it or not, virginity still a virtue for most men. Some Mexicans and Italians here?

Edited September 18, 2014 by umbanda

[Regyai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyNVpvZRwIY

Problem solved

.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I can see the PM telling his young daughters..." If you wants to avoid rape in Thailand, please dress properly and not be alone with men when you still single"...why?..because even educated Thai young men believes that women doing that are asking for sex..

This is almost exactly the advice Thais give their daughters.

I also assume if a Thai girl (not a family member) is alone in a room with me, she has effectively already consented to sex.

[tonbridgebrit]

How about this. If you are a woman, and you go on a foreign holiday, and if you notice that the local women don't actually wear bikinis on the beaches, well, it might be an idea to not wear a bikini.

I'm certainly not saying that women in bikinis in Thailand deserve to be attacked, but basically, you don't see Thai women wearing bikinis on Thailand's beaches. Respect for the local culture and customs must come into it at some point. And how many Thais do feel that foreign women are (slightly) dis-respecting Thailand by their behaviour in Thailand ?

And, as a few posters have already said, I doubt the number of foreign tourists coming here will fall due to this incident. The PM's comments were unfortunate, but I think he speaks for lot's of Thais.

[ParadiseLost]

How about this. If you are a woman, and you go on a foreign holiday, and if you notice that the local women don't actually wear bikinis on the beaches, well, it might be an idea to not wear a bikini.

I'm certainly not saying that women in bikinis in Thailand deserve to be attacked, but basically, you don't see Thai women wearing bikinis on Thailand's beaches. Respect for the local culture and customs must come into it at some point. And how many Thais do feel that foreign women are (slightly) dis-respecting Thailand by their behaviour in Thailand ?

And, as a few posters have already said, I doubt the number of foreign tourists coming here will fall due to this incident. The PM's comments were unfortunate, but I think he speaks for lot's of Thais.

Not disagreeing with you but would like to point out the reason you do not see Thai women in bikinis is not because of modesty - the fear of becoming dark skinned is far more important.

[humqdpf]

I don't agree with the PM's sentiment that appeared to imply that the dead couple were "asking for it." After all, wearing bikinis on a beach is normal.

However, I do think that something is lost here in the reporting. Thais don't go around wearing bikinis off the beach, such as in the street. Like most cultures, they think that such behaviour is tasteless and rude. Without excusing the PM's views, I think that in part he was echoing the Thai cultural norm that just cannot understand why people would walk around the street dressed like that, especially at night.

[ParadiseLost]

If I may add, after living here almost 10 years I find Thai women to be very conservative (and I kind of prefer it). Bar girls are not your typical example, try speaking to some normal working girls.

I have no problem with tourists in bikinis - I live on Koh Phangan. In 10 years here never witnessed any violence, rapes or murders. Not to say none of these things happen, but there are no "gangs high on yabba roaming the streets" that I know of, and extremely unlikely on Koh Tao. Maybe Samui is big enough. There are occasional groups of youngsters arsing about and trying to impress their gf, but they are known to the locals and would not be predatory, out looking to kill and maim!

To all the haters out there, everyone here, and even more so the Thais are horrified and want nothing less than the killers blood. There is no evidence denying or confirming a local person/s involvement but it would be shocking as most Thais rely on tourism in some way or another. The local mafia would discourage this type of crime absolutely. The police even more hateful of the perp as look at the attention it has brought upon an otherwise idyllic (hedonistic) little island with a hitherto murder rate of around zero per annum.

Perhaps this is why the General cannot believe a local person would do it, and even more so why he would say that there could be danger out there, so take extra precautions.

[tracker1]

THAILAND’S Prime Minister, Prayuth Chan-ocha, has sparked outrage with his comments in the wake of the brutal murders of two tourists. Chan-ocha warned that female visitors who wear bikinis may not be safe, unless they are ugly, the HuffingtonPost reports

Sent to me from Australia