Taxing the rich: It's tough. That's why it must be done

[Johpa]

When in history has "equal societies done better?

All the great civilisations have been decidedly unequal.

Days of colonial empires.

Kingdoms of Europe.

Romans

Greeks

Egyptians etc

How refreshing to hear someone actually come out and pine for the days of slavery and serfdom. And in the end it does become a personal choice of what type of society you wish to live within. I simply choose, or should I say prefer, something other than one based upon the excessive inequality that you seem to so admire.

[mccw]

When in history has "equal societies done better?

All the great civilisations have been decidedly unequal.

Days of colonial empires.

Kingdoms of Europe.

Romans

Greeks

Egyptians etc

How refreshing to hear someone actually come out and pine for the days of slavery and serfdom. And in the end it does become a personal choice of what type of society you wish to live within. I simply choose, or should I say prefer, something other than one based upon the excessive inequality that you seem to so admire.

With out the inequality I speak of the technologies you enjoy today would never have been invented. Society would not have developed beyond subsistence farming and hunter gatherers.

A serf; a land bonded farmer- is so very different life style or standard of living to a previous subsistence farmer?

Only difference really that you can call him a serf when a nobility is now present and you can wail about the injustice- but really not much changed for the farmer.

But once you have nobles then a middle class of traders and skills people grew up who had a bit of a wealthier life than the farmers.

I'm not excusing or loving the excess brutality of slavery.

But this structural development of rich and then growing middle class is a fact of human history/ development.

Maybe the world would be "better" if we were all subsistence farmers; depends on perspective, I like that way personally; but you would sure not be enjoying health care, technology, internet, cars, etc etc right now. You would be working hard back in your mother land with no education at the messy of the weather.

[mccw]

On inequality.

Again it's all perspective.

To most of the worlds population they see the standard of living of a westerner on welfare as amazing and great; rich and easy life.

But to the western welfare recipient he feels hard done by and at the bottom of the pile; moans about inequality and justice.

There for the problem is not a problem of wealth; but a problem of perspective. The problem is comparison to a wealthier people. Like the "keeping up with the jones" phenomena- the neighbours were quite content until they saw next door having a new car or washing machine and then they started feeling need one too.

Actually we don't need the extra "stuff".

The media and advertising is largely to blame for outing the disparities so greatly in view. But either way. I say the disparity is not the issue so long as people have the basics of shelter food and eduction for their kids. Beyond that it is all a case of materialism.

I personally can do with out materialism; I would be perfectly happy actually come out and rally to ban advertising, the TV and internet altogether. Switch it off. Makes peoples desires and brains go rampant. Simpler times could be happier times for everybody.

But today is today and the world is how it is. The problem is not to bring down the wealthy; but to bring up the worst of the poor.

Another example to illustrate my point; look at Thailand; having rich other places in the world has meant those rich farangs provide a market for Thai goods, they visit and live here stimulating the economy. If the answer were to one world government take all the rich down and give all that cash to the poor then the results would be a quick splurge on a few material goods then everybody stuck down low level while economy take ages to recover. But as it was by allowing the flow and development the funds passed around Thailand bringing the local wealth up through sustainable growth of manyfactubg; small biz, services etch all providing various levels of jobs.

"Tax the rich" give it to the poor is so simplistic thinking. Equality and bla bla bla is all a matter of perspective and the people like you are normally actually rather rich compared to most the world but you are always only talking about taxes on those other people richer than yourself.

[hawker9000]

When in history has "equal societies done better?

All the great civilisations have been decidedly unequal.

Days of colonial empires.

Kingdoms of Europe.

Romans

Greeks

Egyptians etc

How refreshing to hear someone actually come out and pine for the days of slavery and serfdom. And in the end it does become a personal choice of what type of society you wish to live within. I simply choose, or should I say prefer, something other than one based upon the excessive inequality that you seem to so admire.

With out the inequality I speak of the technologies you enjoy today would never have been invented. Society would not have developed beyond subsistence farming and hunter gatherers.

A serf; a land bonded farmer- is so very different life style or standard of living to a previous subsistence farmer?

Only difference really that you can call him a serf when a nobility is now present and you can wail about the injustice- but really not much changed for the farmer.

But once you have nobles then a middle class of traders and skills people grew up who had a bit of a wealthier life than the farmers.

I'm not excusing or loving the excess brutality of slavery.

But this structural development of rich and then growing middle class is a fact of human history/ development.

Maybe the world would be "better" if we were all subsistence farmers; depends on perspective, I like that way personally; but you would sure not be enjoying health care, technology, internet, cars, etc etc right now. You would be working hard back in your mother land with no education at the messy of the weather.

Egalitarians like to think that progress can be legislated, dictated, and planned. The actual progress engine however requires incentive, and any political schema that denies the right to the incentives one has worked for and earned, but instead "redistributes" them to those who haven't worked for and haven't earned them... isn't going to work! Everybody knows that; it's obvious; it's indisputable, but people love getting something for nothing (that is, pols substitute the incentive to acquire by doing nothing for the incentive to work & achieve by disincentivizing work & merit thru ever higher taxes and ever more burdensome regulation), so the whole redistribution of wealth thing tends to play well with the masses. But the long term consequences are inevitable: massive debt, non-investment, technical stagnation, resentment, class warfare, and social disintegration.

[robblok]

Boring all those Americans ranting about the USA while everyone who has been here for a while and follows the tax debates know that the people paying here are the middle class people earning a wage (salary) while the real rich avoid taxing so HERE it is needed. Why not talk about here because its a total different situation as in the USA.

I am a tax accountant I dislike taxes but I can see a system for what it is and here it is wrong where many people escape taxation that are truly rich while normal salary workers get screwed over. Thailand needs a broader tax base and this is a good step.

Getting income gaps to become a bit smaller is different from getting everyone to make the same money. Instead of earning 1000 times more they will earn 990 times more. You see huge income gaps here and some are justified because i believe you have to be paid for your skill so less gifted will earn less. But 1000 times or even a 100 times is a bit crazy. Just my 2 cents.

Now go back bickering using the USA as an example while it does not apply and vent your anti Obama feelings have fun. Dutch guy here so I dont really care.

[RNguy]

Socialism - even if you dress it up with platitudes and faulty moralism and rename it "Fairness" is always a sh**y idea. It always amazes me that people actually think that the only reason socialism and redistribution have failed in the past is because it was not attempted with sufficient diligence. Oh yeah Mao and Stalin were just lazy in the implementation department - So lets try it again and again and again until we either get it right or we <deleted>*k up the whole planet. I am a Registered Nurse (my last name is not Gates and my first name does not rhyme with "thrill") so I am by no means rich. But I know that those with money are the ones who contribute far more to society monetarily than those whose incomes are closer to mine. Have you ever added up all the fees, taxes, tariffs other costs of producing any form of wealth? In reality business owners are contributing more in the process of creating wealth than they actually accumulate themselves. So lets just grind the most productive and contributing class into the dust. That should help everyone right?

[halloween]

It's funny to read so many posters enthusiastic about the prospect of "taxing the rich".

Many here seem thrilled by the idea of making all these nasty dishonest and selfish rich people "pay" for all the wrong they did to the country...

What a bizarre attitude towards those who are the drivers of the economy...

But the "reforms" are also about "resetting the price of oil and gas products "to reflect the real market prices" and avoid market distortion"...

That means higher prices at the fuel station.

I can already imagine the reactions of the farangs who are so much in favor of taxing the rich, once this particular reform is in place... and that they find out that it is much more expensive to fill up their second hand motorbike

did you get a tax exemption with your elite card?

[hawker9000]

Boring all those Americans ranting about the USA while everyone who has been here for a while and follows the tax debates know that the people paying here are the middle class people earning a wage (salary) while the real rich avoid taxing so HERE it is needed. Why not talk about here because its a total different situation as in the USA.

I am a tax accountant I dislike taxes but I can see a system for what it is and here it is wrong where many people escape taxation that are truly rich while normal salary workers get screwed over. Thailand needs a broader tax base and this is a good step.

Getting income gaps to become a bit smaller is different from getting everyone to make the same money. Instead of earning 1000 times more they will earn 990 times more. You see huge income gaps here and some are justified because i believe you have to be paid for your skill so less gifted will earn less. But 1000 times or even a 100 times is a bit crazy. Just my 2 cents.

Now go back bickering using the USA as an example while it does not apply and vent your anti Obama feelings have fun. Dutch guy here so I dont really care.

Oh yes. To the apologists, it's ALWAYS different, or going to be different, where they are! It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic and so destructive. What's boring is the same old excuses & promises & snake oil over & over & over again. But I'm sure the parasites, err, tax accountants, depending on and living off the great "tax the rich" scam, would sport that kind of attitude. After all, why should they care when the declared intent misfires, and it's the middle-income wage earner that gets the shaft. Tax accountants don't much care WHO pays their fees, just so long as someone does; and the more the merrier, eh?

Now go back to collecting your fees. 30 pieces of silver is it? Tax collectors - the one profession no doubt older than prostitution.

Edited September 19, 2014 by hawker9000

[robblok]

Boring all those Americans ranting about the USA while everyone who has been here for a while and follows the tax debates know that the people paying here are the middle class people earning a wage (salary) while the real rich avoid taxing so HERE it is needed. Why not talk about here because its a total different situation as in the USA.

I am a tax accountant I dislike taxes but I can see a system for what it is and here it is wrong where many people escape taxation that are truly rich while normal salary workers get screwed over. Thailand needs a broader tax base and this is a good step.

Getting income gaps to become a bit smaller is different from getting everyone to make the same money. Instead of earning 1000 times more they will earn 990 times more. You see huge income gaps here and some are justified because i believe you have to be paid for your skill so less gifted will earn less. But 1000 times or even a 100 times is a bit crazy. Just my 2 cents.

Now go back bickering using the USA as an example while it does not apply and vent your anti Obama feelings have fun. Dutch guy here so I dont really care.

Oh yes. To the apologists, it's ALWAYS different, or going to be different, where they are! It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic and so destructive. What's boring is the same old excuses & promises & snake oil over & over & over again. But I'm sure the parasites, err, tax accountants, depending on and living off the great "tax the rich" scam, would sport that kind of attitude. After all, why should they care when the declared intent misfires, and it's the middle-income wage earner that gets the shaft. Tax accountants don't much care WHO pays their fees, just so long as someone does; and the more the merrier, eh?

Now go back to collecting your fees. 30 pieces of silver is it?

It is different here.. just look at the tax base. Your a total.....

And 30 pieces of silver.. isn't that for people believing in that imaginary friend in the sky.. not people who use their brains.

[mccw]

If your talking about increasing the tax base then tax would mean taxing more low income peoples and small biz like in the west.

A tax on the capital gains/ inheritance isn't really widening the base is it? Just increasing the burden on those already paying.

I'd wager if they really did eliminate corruption it would leave more spare money for services than these newly proposed taxes would ever reach the intended recipients.

Instead they should look at delivering better services through greater completion for government contracts in a free market with propper independent auditing to make sure zero corruption involved.

Boring all those Americans ranting about the USA while everyone who has been here for a while and follows the tax debates know that the people paying here are the middle class people earning a wage (salary) while the real rich avoid taxing so HERE it is needed. Why not talk about here because its a total different situation as in the USA.

I am a tax accountant I dislike taxes but I can see a system for what it is and here it is wrong where many people escape taxation that are truly rich while normal salary workers get screwed over. Thailand needs a broader tax base and this is a good step.

Getting income gaps to become a bit smaller is different from getting everyone to make the same money. Instead of earning 1000 times more they will earn 990 times more. You see huge income gaps here and some are justified because i believe you have to be paid for your skill so less gifted will earn less. But 1000 times or even a 100 times is a bit crazy. Just my 2 cents.

Now go back bickering using the USA as an example while it does not apply and vent your anti Obama feelings have fun. Dutch guy here so I dont really care.

Oh yes. To the apologists, it's ALWAYS different, or going to be different, where they are! It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic and so destructive. What's boring is the same old excuses & promises & snake oil over & over & over again. But I'm sure the parasites, err, tax accountants, depending on and living off the great "tax the rich" scam, would sport that kind of attitude. After all, why should they care when the declared intent misfires, and it's the middle-income wage earner that gets the shaft. Tax accountants don't much care WHO pays their fees, just so long as someone does; and the more the merrier, eh?

Now go back to collecting your fees. 30 pieces of silver is it?

It is different here.. just look at the tax base. Your a total.....

And 30 pieces of silver.. isn't that for people believing in that imaginary friend in the sky.. not people who use their brains.

[tbthailand]

just think who is a major owner of land in thailand, will he/his family be excluded from that tax ?

did the PM already submit an overview of his assets ? and of his family members , maids & gardeners ?

Your an idiot.

That land is used for all sorts of purposes and projects for the people; forestry; agricultural communities; research; nature preservation etc.

Leave your envy and hate back in your Falang land. This is the Kingdom of Thailand and long may it be so. With out this great monarch Tjailand would likely look like a poor corrupt shizer hole like Cambodia run by a megalomaniac like Hun Sen - ah yeah; his name was Thaksin. Thank the heavens for Chakri.

"That land is used for all sorts of purposes and projects for the people; forestry; agricultural communities; research; nature preservation etc."

well, not really. but that is against the law to discuss.

[tbthailand]

If your talking about increasing the tax base then tax would mean taxing more low income peoples and small biz like in the west.

A tax on the capital gains/ inheritance isn't really widening the base is it? Just increasing the burden on those already paying.

I'd wager if they really did eliminate corruption it would leave more spare money for services than these newly proposed taxes would ever reach the intended recipients.

Instead they should look at delivering better services through greater completion for government contracts in a free market with propper independent auditing to make sure zero corruption involved.

Boring all those Americans ranting about the USA while everyone who has been here for a while and follows the tax debates know that the people paying here are the middle class people earning a wage (salary) while the real rich avoid taxing so HERE it is needed. Why not talk about here because its a total different situation as in the USA.

I am a tax accountant I dislike taxes but I can see a system for what it is and here it is wrong where many people escape taxation that are truly rich while normal salary workers get screwed over. Thailand needs a broader tax base and this is a good step.

Getting income gaps to become a bit smaller is different from getting everyone to make the same money. Instead of earning 1000 times more they will earn 990 times more. You see huge income gaps here and some are justified because i believe you have to be paid for your skill so less gifted will earn less. But 1000 times or even a 100 times is a bit crazy. Just my 2 cents.

Now go back bickering using the USA as an example while it does not apply and vent your anti Obama feelings have fun. Dutch guy here so I dont really care.

Oh yes. To the apologists, it's ALWAYS different, or going to be different, where they are! It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic and so destructive. What's boring is the same old excuses & promises & snake oil over & over & over again. But I'm sure the parasites, err, tax accountants, depending on and living off the great "tax the rich" scam, would sport that kind of attitude. After all, why should they care when the declared intent misfires, and it's the middle-income wage earner that gets the shaft. Tax accountants don't much care WHO pays their fees, just so long as someone does; and the more the merrier, eh?

Now go back to collecting your fees. 30 pieces of silver is it?

It is different here.. just look at the tax base. Your a total.....

And 30 pieces of silver.. isn't that for people believing in that imaginary friend in the sky.. not people who use their brains.

Sorry, this one jumped out at me...

'A tax on the capital gains/ inheritance isn't really widening the base is it? Just increasing the burden on those already paying.'

That is completely incorrect.

[mccw]

Depends if your talking about the numbers of people paying tax as the base

Or the variation of taxes applied.

If the new taxes are only targeted at the "rich" then these are the same people already paying the lions share.

So I'd call that increasing the burden on the existing tax paying population base.

Apples and pears ; call it what you like.

[robblok]

Depends if your talking about the numbers of people paying tax as the base

Or the variation of taxes applied.

If the new taxes are only targeted at the "rich" then these are the same people already paying the lions share.

So I'd call that increasing the burden on the existing tax paying population base.

Apples and pears ; call it what you like.

Absolutely not true salary workers ate paying the most taxes the rich avoid those by not having a salary on paper. You should read up on why this is done.

As for the comments on spending money better and eliminating corruption. One does not exclude the other. I agree that this should be done too. The idea is to take some of the burdon of the muddle class of salary workers and tax the rich who avoid paying a salary so they dont have to pay tax.

There are serious holes in the current system this is one way to fix them.

[mccw]

Depends if your talking about the numbers of people paying tax as the base

Or the variation of taxes applied.

If the new taxes are only targeted at the "rich" then these are the same people already paying the lions share.

So I'd call that increasing the burden on the existing tax paying population base.

Apples and pears ; call it what you like.

Absolutely not true salary workers ate paying the most taxes the rich avoid those by not having a salary on paper. You should read up on why this is done.

As for the comments on spending money better and eliminating corruption. One does not exclude the other. I agree that this should be done too. The idea is to take some of the burdon of the muddle class of salary workers and tax the rich who avoid paying a salary so they dont have to pay tax.

There are serious holes in the current system this is one way to fix them.

But the rich are investors in setting up and operating business aren't they normally?

They don't just sit around in castles spending their cash until it's all gone.

So the biz pays taxes and employs people. I expect they do pay themselves a salary too often.

If talking about land based biz - there are already land transfer and biz rates on that. 5/7% roughly.

If talking farming biz then this is something that should be declared as such and is a matter of enforcement rather than needing new tax.

Inheritance tax is just such a stingy bastard tax. Pay taxes all life and still tax after dead. What if you have a nice home and land but aren't otherwise terribly rich. You want to leave for your kids to carry on living there but not enough cash to pay the tax do government forces a sale to raise the tax? Bastads interfering in the peoples personal affairs.

I imagine it could affect many land owners who are living a reasonable simple life farming on land in desirable areas. Having by it it up diligently over generations of saving and frugal living the tax man and jealous non savers come along want to break up all the good work.

Not good at all.

50 million bht - could be 20-30 rai many places; only a modest farm making not huge amounts of money.

If anything it would concentrate the land to the super duper rich who can acquire the land a short notice for cash on the forced sales.

Gift tax too so no way around it.

[robblok]

Depends if your talking about the numbers of people paying tax as the base

Or the variation of taxes applied.

If the new taxes are only targeted at the "rich" then these are the same people already paying the lions share.

So I'd call that increasing the burden on the existing tax paying population base.

Apples and pears ; call it what you like.

Absolutely not true salary workers ate paying the most taxes the rich avoid those by not having a salary on paper. You should read up on why this is done.

As for the comments on spending money better and eliminating corruption. One does not exclude the other. I agree that this should be done too. The idea is to take some of the burdon of the muddle class of salary workers and tax the rich who avoid paying a salary so they dont have to pay tax.

There are serious holes in the current system this is one way to fix them.

But the rich are investors in setting up and operating business aren't they normally?

They don't just sit around in castles spending their cash until it's all gone.

So the biz pays taxes and employs people. I expect they do pay themselves a salary too often.

If talking about land based biz - there are already land transfer and biz rates on that. 5/7% roughly.

If talking farming biz then this is something that should be declared as such and is a matter of enforcement rather than needing new tax.

Inheritance tax is just such a stingy bastard tax. Pay taxes all life and still tax after dead. What if you have a nice home and land but aren't otherwise terribly rich. You want to leave for your kids to carry on living there but not enough cash to pay the tax do government forces a sale to raise the tax? Bastads interfering in the peoples personal affairs.

I imagine it could affect many land owners who are living a reasonable simple life farming on land in desirable areas. Having by it it up diligently over generations of saving and frugal living the tax man and jealous non savers come along want to break up all the good work.

Not good at all.

50 million bht - could be 20-30 rai many places; only a modest farm making not huge amounts of money.

If anything it would concentrate the land to the super duper rich who can acquire the land a short notice for cash on the forced sales.

Gift tax too so no way around it.

Oh inheritance tax is a bastard tax.. I agree 100% its a crazy tax. In general I am 100% against it but not in Thailand if they make the threshold high enough.

Enforcement would help but its too complicated this would make it all easier. If enforcement would work id support it. We are talking about rich driving in nice cars living in great houses paid and deductible by the company. Having almost no salary and giving themselves dividends (tax free). Stuff like that and that is just one of the easy things. Others just have houses and lands and never give up the proceeds of it or keep land and sell it off without paying taxes ext.

50 million bt is a lot of money and considered rich not super rich though.(compare that with a salary worker making 20k a month having to pay tax but those people not the salary worker would thank Budha a million times if he had 50 million bt) This is not about taxing people who are fugal this is about the filthy rich not paying taxes.

The problem is just that because of the chaos and corruption its hard to tax any other way this is a relatively easy way where people cant escape paying taxes other ways are just too complicated and open to fraud. Id prefer an other system but that is just not realistic here.

[mccw]

So why not just whack the luxury goods taxes up to 500% ?

50 million might be a start; opens the door. Next bunch of populists put it at 10 million and then slippery slope rates going up 5-10-- next thing it's like the UK at 40% and every one looking to move money off shore or in to trust rather than pay. Put it all in companies and such.

So the result is middle gets hit hardest and the super rich avoid it anyway. So it's just adding to the burden on the middle when alls said and done.

Luxury VAT or financial transactions tax or a higher dividends tax would be better.

You mention land as Un taxed; but it is already taxed at 4-5% personal or 7% biz rate; no avoiding it , it must be paid at the land office before they will sign on any transfer. That's on gross; not net between previous purchase and sale price.

Adduch more tax on that and land subdivisions will dry up; decreasing the affordable residential land supply.

[robblok]

So why not just whack the luxury goods taxes up to 500% ?

50 million might be a start; opens the door. Next bunch of populists put it at 10 million and then slippery slope rates going up 5-10-- next thing it's like the UK at 40% and every one looking to move money off shore or in to trust rather than pay. Put it all in companies and such.

So the result is middle gets hit hardest and the super rich avoid it anyway. So it's just adding to the burden on the middle when alls said and done.

Luxury VAT or financial transactions tax or a higher dividends tax would be better.

You mention land as Un taxed; but it is already taxed at 4-5% personal or 7% biz rate; no avoiding it , it must be paid at the land office before they will sign on any transfer. That's on gross; not net between previous purchase and sale price.

Adduch more tax on that and land subdivisions will dry up; decreasing the affordable residential land supply.

How many do you think file for the rents they get out of land ?

You are already talking about lowering it and raising taxes before it has happened that is alarmist crazy stuff.

The Thai tax base needs to change from the middle class to richer people.

But I do hate inheritance tax, my dad is giving me money now before he dies so its not taxed. He can give quite a lot before its taxed (Dutch system). My dad had to pay a lot of money when his dad died.. such a shame and such a crazy tax (in civilized countries where tax fraud is a lot less as here).

Only reason im for this program is that its the best and most efficient they can do right now. In a perfect world they would do it an other way but this is Thailand.

Also i agree corruption needs to go too and bad spending too.. but its not mutual exclusive.

Anyway we will probably never see face to face about this. Better to leave it at this.

[mccw]

"Alarmist"

Historic normal process more like. Look at all of Europe's tax history. Check it out on wiki.

It has been worse at times; like post WW ; but from it's introduction to today it's morphed to a crazy extent reaching ever more intrusively.

My basic stand point is that the simpler and more targeted the better.

From hardly any to today where low to high all taxed

But it's the super rich who escape it always.

Bit mean to class Thais as deserving tax inheritance tax oppression because they are "less civilised country"

End of the day our chat here doesn't effect any of this; I am just voicing my opinions.

No heat in chat; no worries; just a bit of pleasantly stimulating debate.

Sawadee

[robblok]

"Alarmist"

Historic normal process more like. Look at all of Europe's tax history. Check it out on wiki.

It has been worse at times; like post WW ; but from it's introduction to today it's morphed to a crazy extent reaching ever more intrusively.

My basic stand point is that the simpler and more targeted the better.

From hardly any to today where low to high all taxed

But it's the super rich who escape it always.

Bit mean to class Thais as deserving tax inheritance tax oppression because they are "less civilised country"

End of the day our chat here doesn't effect any of this; I am just voicing my opinions.

No heat in chat; no worries; just a bit of pleasantly stimulating debate.

Sawadee

Less civilized as in less orderly more corruption. Where I come from its real hard to defraud the tax office here its easy. I should have used an other word. Mea culpa. Putting loads of money or assets in an others name would not be easy where I live.. but here look at what Taksin did with his gardener its easy. Where I come from if you do that the money is gone to the gardener for good. Plus some tax on it because you cant just give away money else you could avoid paying wages tax on it.

No heat here either does not effect me either. Just have read a lot about the Thai tax system since I have been here and the sad fact is that the rich are escaping while salary workers are getting taxed too much. If we agree on that we can disagree on how to change it.

Edited September 20, 2014 by robblok

[mccw]

Agreed I can not effect it.

But I am not very happy about it.

Personally I am building a sustainable farming and family house. 12 rai; a nice couple houses; maybe another couple if kids want to stay in future with married or family.

Over the years with inflation etc 50 million might not be so much. At 50 and 1% I can plan. But If down to 10 million and up to 40% it will destroy it.

I want to make a stable base for can eat and roof over head for generations to come. But inheritance tax can destroy the families stability. Turn all the hard work to nothing if not working like a slave all life just to pay off the tax man upon parents death. The idea was to be free to live simply and not have to worry about future rat race, could be artist , meditate or what ever. Tax is the way for destroy freedom and make every one a wage slave to capitalist system

[RNguy]

MCCW, I understand and can relate to most of what you said but how is it that capitalism has anything to do with taxes? Freedom (in the United States at least) began as a rebellion against taxes. It has always puzzled me that capitalism has become a curse word in many European countries. Although it probably shouldn't puzzle me since socialism has been so embraced there. The definition of capitalism I'm familiar with has to do with earning money and getting paid what the market will bear and keeping what you've earned. If anything taxes are used most often as a socialist tool for redistributing wealth, and used in that way they certainly have nothing to do with true capitalism. .

[mccw]

Hi RNguy

I use "capitalist system" as in the meaning of those with the most capital ruling and rigging the game and lord it over everybody else like the modern corporate capitalist behemoths squashing small biz, the system trying to tie people down as wage earning tax payers rather than free men to make their own way in life.

I see capitalist and the western model socialist as two sides of the same coin; the string pullers in league with government to make it hardest for the little independent guy and the laws and regs for running small biz, street vending, building your own home or keeping live stock or whatever and such so that it the cost and law make it impossible or in practical for most to live separate from the debt/ banking/ wage and taxes system they've set up to make themselves even more rich than imaginable in all the human history really. They've taken power and rigged the game better than the olden day monarchs managed even.

The Amercian Dream; freedom to make own way , beautiful , but died a while ago I think.

The Thais use capitalist in much the same way I do/ many UK people do.

They complain about "capitalists" coming to their country and kicking out the locals to build resorts or take over farms ; in league with local capitalist who have sold out the nation.

[mccw]

But the Thais (and me) complaining against "capitalists" they sure don't mean a wish for socialist or communist or anything like that either.

[robblok]

Agreed I can not effect it.

But I am not very happy about it.

Personally I am building a sustainable farming and family house. 12 rai; a nice couple houses; maybe another couple if kids want to stay in future with married or family.

Over the years with inflation etc 50 million might not be so much. At 50 and 1% I can plan. But If down to 10 million and up to 40% it will destroy it.

I want to make a stable base for can eat and roof over head for generations to come. But inheritance tax can destroy the families stability. Turn all the hard work to nothing if not working like a slave all life just to pay off the tax man upon parents death. The idea was to be free to live simply and not have to worry about future rat race, could be artist , meditate or what ever. Tax is the way for destroy freedom and make every one a wage slave to capitalist system

So in the end its all about you, at least your honest about it.

[mccw]

All about me yeah.

And anyone who would like to provide a stable alternative life for future generations who wouldn't be forced in to 9 to 5 or worse jobs such as tax accountants etc 55

[robblok]

All about me yeah.

And anyone who would like to provide a stable alternative life for future generations who wouldn't be forced in to 9 to 5 or worse jobs such as tax accountants etc 55

I get your point so your a bit bias. I am not a Thai tax accountant so I got nothing to gain or loose.Of course would not like to pay over money that I own too but so be it.

Your self sufficient dream is just that a dream.. not really viable unless you never buy stuff like cars and such bet you dont like your income to be taxed from selling the products you don't use.

I understand all that.. but countries and their systems have to be paid for one way or an other way... and its unfair for all the salary workers the shoulder most of it. But I dont see much in inheritance tax.. but wealth to be taxed sure.

[mccw]

So your a bit biased since being a life long salary worker

It's understandable. Everybody prefer some one else to pay.

This why my principle point is less tax for everybody.

Capital gains on sale would at least be more acceptable than inheritance and gift tax; coz one isn't making any money; only transferring what you as a family already had. Takes no account of income or means to pay. Just strait out theft. Not a cut of the productive efforts; which is kinda reasonable. But I can't see inheritance tax as at all reasonable.

[gerry1011]

People who work to reach success are admirable.

The same people who then work to retain their patrimony, or make this patrimony grow in value, are understandable.

People who inherit this patrimony, and who want to protect it, or work at making it grow even bigger, are doing the right thing.

If these people want to spend their patrimony, it goes back quickly into the economy, and in this case it is their choice.

What I don't understand is why the people who don't work, aren't clever enough to reach success, are not willing to work to secure their future, are too old to finally do something with their lives, are too lazy to grab opportunities, want to believe that a simple life is better, are too careless with money to keep any, ... always want the rich to pay for them.

There is no solution, of course.

Both group will never understand each other

Edited September 20, 2014 by gerry1011

[mccw]

Btw

I still have my business; I'm not old nor retired.

The point is being able to make a secure base point for future generations. The self sufficiency house place; it's not about totally dropping out but have the ability to survive in case the economy and/or other biz goes tits up. Rather than fall back on my UK nanny state I am try to create my own Saftey net.