Australia launches anti-terror raids

[JockPieandBeans]

Yes, his majesty shall never be pleased.

I do not need to be pleased.

http://www.sbs.com.a...riage-australia

http://www.news.com....r-1225922933605

http://www.smh.com.a...0214-32r44.html

Have a read, This is what is happening in Australia.

You might want to try braille, clearly your eyesight is not working.

Yes sah!

Is there anything else I can do for you massa?

Sarcasm and insults. The last refuge of those who have lost their argument.

[MJP]

Yes, his majesty shall never be pleased.

I do not need to be pleased.

http://www.sbs.com.a...riage-australia

http://www.news.com....r-1225922933605

http://www.smh.com.a...0214-32r44.html

Have a read, This is what is happening in Australia.

You might want to try braille, clearly your eyesight is not working.

Yes sah!

Is there anything else I can do for you massa?

Sarcasm and insults. The last refuge of those who have lost their argument.

It was a funny quote though Jock.

[JockPieandBeans]

No argument rfrom me on that one MJP.

[Tep]

Yes, his majesty shall never be pleased.

I do not need to be pleased.

http://www.sbs.com.a...riage-australia

http://www.news.com....r-1225922933605

http://www.smh.com.a...0214-32r44.html

Have a read, This is what is happening in Australia.

You might want to try braille, clearly your eyesight is not working.

Bloody Hell. Thicker than two short planks this one. Ok you can use google. Did you read the actual articles. Judge blocks marriage. Iman charged by authorities.

I told readers of your posts that forced marriage has not been and is not currently part of the Australian fabric. Your terminology. The articles demonstrate this. Australia does not tolerate this crap. I never said this doesn't happen. I never said criminal activity linked to the events in Syria is not happening. But Australia is dealing with it. Its Police and other institutions are working.

Keep shooting links. They will all confirm what I am saying. There is no reason to be running around like an hysterical little girl sreaming about the muslims. You continue to demonstrate your ignorance about this country.

[samran]

Yes, his majesty shall never be pleased.

I do not need to be pleased.

http://www.sbs.com.a...riage-australia

http://www.news.com....r-1225922933605

http://www.smh.com.a...0214-32r44.html

Have a read, This is what is happening in Australia.

You might want to try braille, clearly your eyesight is not working.

Bloody Hell. Thicker than two short planks this one. Ok you can use google. Did you read the actual articles. Judge blocks marriage. Iman charged by authorities.

I told readers of your posts that forced marriage has not been and is not currently part of the Australian fabric. Your terminology. The articles demonstrate this. Australia does not tolerate this crap. I never said this doesn't happen. I never said criminal activity linked to the events in Syria is not happening. But Australia is dealing with it. Its Police and other institutions are working.

Keep shooting links. They will all confirm what I am saying. There is no reason to be running around like an hysterical little girl sreaming about the muslims. You continue to demonstrate your ignorance about this country.

Reading and comprehension seems to be a problem.

[JockPieandBeans]

Samran

Here is a post today from one of your fellow Aussies

They claim they are only fighting to rid the country of "foreign troops" yet every year they murder more of their fellow Afghans/Muslims on purpose here than the coalition does by accident. Not to mention that a large percentage of their fighters are from "foreign countries" themselves.

They hang children after accusing them of being spies.

They rape women, then accuse them of adultery and have them stoned to death.

They strap bombs to mentally handicapped kids and send them into crowded markets before remote detonating them.

They are lowlife, scum criminals using religion to justify their actions. They use fear and terror to force the people into following their particular way of thinking. Any of them that has a weapon can be judge, jury and executioner on the spot. There is no law. There is no justice. There is no freedom.

I have met some decent, hard working, law-abiding Afghans here over the years. People trying to make a living, raise a family and live an honest life. I watch these people trying to cobble together ancient pieces of equipment in the hopes it will run another day and they can earn another $5 ($10 if they're lucky). I watch farmers tending their watermelon fields in 50+ degree (Celsius) heat, camel/goat/sheep herders spending all day in the sun tending their flocks. Guys with university degrees handling the hose on a shit-sucker (honey wagon) truck. Skilled workers (carpenters/welders/etc) sorting garbage in the waste yard for $10 a day because that is the only thing keeping them (and their families) from starving.

But for all those good people, there are plenty more that thrive on crime and corruption and violence. Far easier to use a weapon to take something from somebody than it is to work for it yourself. And hey, if you can use your religion to justify it - less chance of any recriminations. Bonus !

Robbery ? Just claim they were heathens and deserved it !

Rape ? Just claim they were heretics and deserved it !

Murder ? Just claim they were infidels and deserved it !

I've seen/heard so much of this over the last 11 years here that I wonder how they can even believe their own BS. But that's the whole point of keeping their people uneducated and stupid, isn't it ? The dumber they are, the easier it is to convince them of almost anything. In fact, so many of them don't even think what they are doing is criminal, because they've been told that everything they do is for the glory of their god. When you can justify any action by claiming your god approves it, then anything is acceptable.

Really not much different that the christians during the middle ages, and during the periods of "colonization" when emissaries of the various religious sects would forcibly convert the "heathens" they encountered in the new lands. Little things like the Spanish Inquisition and Salem Witch trials are just other examples of religious extremism carried out by christians during a period when religious leaders held near ultimate power over the people and could even force kings to do their bidding.

Is he clueless and a bigot too ?

You can chuck your insults all you like.

Instead of chucking insults, try backing up your claims with documented facts. It will get you more credence.

[samran]

Samran

Here is a post today from one of your fellow Aussies

They claim they are only fighting to rid the country of "foreign troops" yet every year they murder more of their fellow Afghans/Muslims on purpose here than the coalition does by accident. Not to mention that a large percentage of their fighters are from "foreign countries" themselves.

They hang children after accusing them of being spies.

They rape women, then accuse them of adultery and have them stoned to death.

They strap bombs to mentally handicapped kids and send them into crowded markets before remote detonating them.

They are lowlife, scum criminals using religion to justify their actions. They use fear and terror to force the people into following their particular way of thinking. Any of them that has a weapon can be judge, jury and executioner on the spot. There is no law. There is no justice. There is no freedom.

I have met some decent, hard working, law-abiding Afghans here over the years. People trying to make a living, raise a family and live an honest life. I watch these people trying to cobble together ancient pieces of equipment in the hopes it will run another day and they can earn another $5 ($10 if they're lucky). I watch farmers tending their watermelon fields in 50+ degree (Celsius) heat, camel/goat/sheep herders spending all day in the sun tending their flocks. Guys with university degrees handling the hose on a shit-sucker (honey wagon) truck. Skilled workers (carpenters/welders/etc) sorting garbage in the waste yard for $10 a day because that is the only thing keeping them (and their families) from starving.

But for all those good people, there are plenty more that thrive on crime and corruption and violence. Far easier to use a weapon to take something from somebody than it is to work for it yourself. And hey, if you can use your religion to justify it - less chance of any recriminations. Bonus !

Robbery ? Just claim they were heathens and deserved it !

Rape ? Just claim they were heretics and deserved it !

Murder ? Just claim they were infidels and deserved it !

I've seen/heard so much of this over the last 11 years here that I wonder how they can even believe their own BS. But that's the whole point of keeping their people uneducated and stupid, isn't it ? The dumber they are, the easier it is to convince them of almost anything. In fact, so many of them don't even think what they are doing is criminal, because they've been told that everything they do is for the glory of their god. When you can justify any action by claiming your god approves it, then anything is acceptable.

Really not much different that the christians during the middle ages, and during the periods of "colonization" when emissaries of the various religious sects would forcibly convert the "heathens" they encountered in the new lands. Little things like the Spanish Inquisition and Salem Witch trials are just other examples of religious extremism carried out by christians during a period when religious leaders held near ultimate power over the people and could even force kings to do their bidding.

Is he clueless and a bigot too ?

You can chuck your insults all you like.

Instead of chucking insults, try backing up your claims with documented facts. It will get you more credence.

I do like that you've posted this, cause it basically contradicts everything you've said and fits in very nicely with my view of the world.

Yes there are some who are terrorists. They are scum. I have no problem with that. They'll never make it to Australia.

There are other decent hard working Muslims, who are victims of these people. Very true. Australia would welcome these guys with open arms. Shock horror, hard working Muslims trying to create a better life for themselves. Who would have thought?

The evil people are the religious zealots. Compared them to Christians even, which I've done and was laughed out of the room by you and your little fanboys like transam.

And the cause of this is lack of education and opportunity, keeping them poor so they are more prone to this brain washing. Again, great point. Ergo, a well functioning country with good education and employment is one of the best front line defenses against the rise of the morons.

In fact, they are all great points which you posted. In never have disagreed with any of it.

The Thailand chapter of the EDL pooh pooh these points (take a bow transam and jacky no brains), so I thank you for making it on my behalf.

Also thanks too for your earlier postings showing the lengths the Australian authorities are going to stamp out these practices.

Though i do wonder how arranged marriages are an athema especially we still have Libby as our queen, the embodiment of all things good and British who is most certainly the product of generations of arranged marriages amongst the twits of the British and European aristocracy. (Yes I am sure it was a genuine first meeting when she met Phil the Greek while she was working weekends at tescos and love blossomed from there. No parental involvement whatsoever. But that, they say, is off topic).

I must admit I am tiring of this debate, especially given Im debating someone who has no knowledge of Australia and who is basing his lessons on a country he hasn't lived in for many years, striking it rich in the ME it seems. Well done by the way.

So I'll let you continue demand your little lists of this and that. I don't have the need to pander to your eternal demands.

[JockPieandBeans]

Yes there are some who are terrorists. They are scum. I have no problem with that. They'll never make it to Australia.

There are other decent hard working Muslims, who are victims of these people. Very true. Australia would welcome these guys with open arms. Shock horror, hard working Muslims trying to create a better life for themselves. Who would have thought?

1. They are already in Australia.

2. Of course there are decent hard working muslims. I have never disputed that.

Here is the important part of your fellow Aussie's Post.

But for all those good people, there are plenty more that thrive on crime and corruption and violence. Far easier to use a weapon to take something from somebody than it is to work for it yourself. And hey, if you can use your religion to justify it - less chance of any recriminations. Bonus !

Robbery ? Just claim they were heathens and deserved it !

Rape ? Just claim they were heretics and deserved it !

Murder ? Just claim they were infidels and deserved it !

Whether you believe it or not, he speaks the truth.

IF, the reports on the demise of this Australian Muslim are TRUE. Just think what they would do to a paleface, non believing infidel.

[JockPieandBeans]

So very quick to come on this thread, and chuck insults around.

I see you still have not had the decency to visit

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764241-killed-by-taliban-for-being-aussie/

And offer your condolences to this poor unfortunate Australian Muslim.

[samran]

So very quick to come on this thread, and chuck insults around.

I see you still have not had the decency to visit

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764241-killed-by-taliban-for-being-aussie/

And offer your condolences to this poor unfortunate Australian Muslim.

Is this another order massa?

You certainly have a predisposition to push people around.

As for decency to visit, I actually have a life outside of TV. I read about it elsewhere this morning.

[transam]

@Samran.

Anyone who has backed me up in the past did so for a good reason, a logical reason...

To me this thread subject is very important and for sure with any subject folk will disagree, human nature, but I bear noooo animosity towards different posters with different views to myself. What I do dislike is posters being told they are brainless etc cos we disagree on something, to me not an intelligent response from someone who purports to know it all..

[Tep]

So very quick to come on this thread, and chuck insults around.

I see you still have not had the decency to visit

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764241-killed-by-taliban-for-being-aussie/

And offer your condolences to this poor unfortunate Australian Muslim.

You glory in the death of this unfortunate person. This Australian muslim. You revel in it with glee. All this persons life means to you is to justify a debating point? And you talk about decency. I have had family of my friends butchered in Afghanistan and to think you would use these deaths to promote a bigotry and message of hatred is appalling.

Your arrogance and pomposity has caused friction with other posters on other threads I see. Keep up the good work Scotty.

The poster you continue to attack puts quite a lot of effort into his posts to explain his point of view. Clearly you are too busy polishing your jackboots to bother to pay attention. You have no connection to Australia and nothing to say of use to us. The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with. Do you wonder why people push back and disagree. And your narrow mind sees this as insulting.

Come back and make a post that informs the debate, not one that stomps through a dead man's blood for your vainglory.

[JockPieandBeans]

Is this another order massa?

You certainly have a predisposition to push people around.

As for decency to visit, I actually have a life outside of TV. I read about it elsewhere this morning.

Another order ? Is ASKING someone to provide independent sources to back up their claims issuing orders ?

Is providing independent articles backing up an individuals claim, pushing people around ?

You might have a life outside TV, but you took the time to throw insults in this thread, without offering your condolences on another thread, concerning the death of an Australian Muslim.

Nothing like getting your priorities in the correct order.

[Tep]

@Samran.

Anyone who has backed me up in the past did so for a good reason, a logical reason...

To me this thread subject is very important and for sure with any subject folk will disagree, human nature, but I bear noooo animosity towards different posters with different views to myself. What I do dislike is posters being told they are brainless etc cos we disagree on something, to me not an intelligent response from someone who purports to know it all..

You are dead right. This issue is extremely important. You are also correct about style and respect. I am new to engaging in active discussions but I determined my approach would match like for like. I would respond seriously to a serious post, and hurl back any crap thrown at me.

[JockPieandBeans]

Tep

This will be my last ever response to you.

You glory in the death of this unfortunate person. This Australian muslim. You revel in it with glee. All this persons life means to you is to justify a debating point? And you talk about decency. I have had family of my friends butchered in Afghanistan and to think you would use these deaths to promote a bigotry and message of hatred is appalling.

Where have I glorified anything ? Where do you see bigotry and hatred on my part ? If you think for some reason that it is there for all to see, there is a report button. Feel free to report me to the mods.

You dont really want to get into a debate about butchery in Gan with me. Trust me, I'll destroy you.

The poster you continue to attack puts quite a lot of effort into his posts to explain his point of view. Clearly you are too busy polishing your jackboots to bother to pay attention. You have no connection to Australia and nothing to say of use to us. The days of the white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism in Australia are over but unfortunately there are still voices like yours to contend with. Do you wonder why people push back and disagree. And your narrow mind sees this as insulting.

The poster I attack ? So providing an answer to said poster with Independent Sources, is according to you, attacking someone.

You have no idea what connection I may or may not have with Australia. But your statement that the days of white supremacist Brit fostering bigotry and racism, really says everything I need to know about you in spades. My narrow mind ? Really, take a long hard look in the mirror.

Come back and make a post that informs the debate, not one that stomps through a dead man's blood for your vainglory.

i have made plenty of posts, backed up by Independent Supporting References that informs the debate. It is not my problem that that those posts Independent References do not agree with your own agenda.

Your arrogance and pomposity has caused friction with other posters on other threads

You were clearly fixed in front of a mirror when that statement popped into your head.

Now go away fool.

[jacky54]

If you like dishing it out, like you do, then you got to be able to take it.

You dish out hatred based on random news stories. At least you give me something to work with.

I do not dish out insults and being anti Islam has nothing t do with hate anymore than it has to do with race. Those opposed to Islam do not hate Muslims, is that too hard for you to understand.

[Tep]

Is this another order massa?

You certainly have a predisposition to push people around.

As for decency to visit, I actually have a life outside of TV. I read about it elsewhere this morning.

Another order ? Is ASKING someone to provide independent sources to back up their claims issuing orders ?

Is providing independent articles backing up an individuals claim, pushing people around ?

You might have a life outside TV, but you took the time to throw insults in this thread, without offering your condolences on another thread, concerning the death of an Australian Muslim.

Nothing like getting your priorities in the correct order.

You're not particularly good at this. Where is the citation for your independent article. You could have written it yourself this morning. Your goads for similar irrelevancies from others is not good debate and makes you look lazy for not doing your own research. And you continue to desecrate that person's death in the most disgusting way. At least stop doing that for pity's sake. It is grotesque.

[NeverSure]

If folk want to move to a foreign land they must forget all their daft religious laws. If they cannot cope with the "new" lands laws and way of life then stay in their own country. It is soooooo easy, but alas their country doesn't have social security and benefits so they will go for the handouts and try and do their daft stuff....

So if a catholic moves to Australia, they must have an abortion which is legal in Australia even if Catholicism bans it. Do I make them get contraception? Again, against catholic doctrine. Do I make them eat meat during lent?

For a jehovah witness, so I make them take a blood transfusion to save their lives even if their faith bans it?

Do I make Orthodox Jews work on Saturday? Do I ban them from building two kitchens for the seperate preparation of food?

Do I make Sikhs cut their hair?

Do I make Mormons drink alcohol?

None of these things they do, according to religious scripture and beliefs are illegal. Why should I stop them?

Ed - I really don't understand your need to intrude into people's bedrooms. Do we ban homosexuality? It isn't illegal. People were living polygamous lives even without the sanction of a religion. Do we ban them to given they aren't doing so under any religious order?

I don't like this debate. It isn't even reasonable and I can see that I can't get through with reason.

Samran, your examples are desperate.

None of the above are laws that say anyone must do anything. They are choices that people may make. They are within existing OZ law.

Over time OZ has developed a culture and laws that suit it. Nothing you mention contradicts that.

But you refuse to accept that these Muslims move in and try to impose their laws and religious beliefs on others. It is silly to propose that anyone cares if Mormons do or don't drink alcohol, or if Jews have two kitchens. That has no affect on anyone else. It has never been a problem.

Muslims do want to change things in ways that affect everyone else. They want to bring their own laws. It's not a problem if they want to make food choices for themselves or even pray to Mecca. It is a huge problem when they won't assimilate and accept OZ laws and obey them.

Never before have I seen a people who are invited as guests as we constantly remind ourselves we are in Thailand, and then try to eat the host. They are parasites on the culture without assimilating. Nothing you say will change that.

[Tep]

If you like dishing it out, like you do, then you got to be able to take it.

You dish out hatred based on random news stories. At least you give me something to work with.

I do not dish out insults and being anti Islam has nothing t do with hate anymore than it has to do with race. Those opposed to Islam do not hate Muslims, is that too hard for you to understand.

This and other threads have very little religious debate. I would like to see this debate. Always happy to learn new things. This and other threads have generally been a hate-fest on muslims. In this case, muslims in Australia and the targeting of san entire sub culture through the actions of a few.

You say you have read the Koran but I see little comparative analysis apart from lists of superficial nastiness cited by you. Not many have probably read it and maybe there are other more meaningful parts to it that can be appreciated.

You make a legitimate point and then you add on an insult. What do you think people will respond to? Because you did this, then let me return the favour. I don't think you are ready to argue about your opposition to Islam. I think you would prefer this to be about muslims and immigration. It is much harder to fight an idea than a person, particularly one with brown skin and funny headwear. Much easier to slag off the Pakis who are stealing your benefits than engage on the belief system.

[Tywais]

Several off topic & inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[giddyup]

If folk want to move to a foreign land they must forget all their daft religious laws. If they cannot cope with the "new" lands laws and way of life then stay in their own country. It is soooooo easy, but alas their country doesn't have social security and benefits so they will go for the handouts and try and do their daft stuff....

So if a catholic moves to Australia, they must have an abortion which is legal in Australia even if Catholicism bans it. Do I make them get contraception? Again, against catholic doctrine. Do I make them eat meat during lent?

For a jehovah witness, so I make them take a blood transfusion to save their lives even if their faith bans it?

Do I make Orthodox Jews work on Saturday? Do I ban them from building two kitchens for the seperate preparation of food?

Do I make Sikhs cut their hair?

Do I make Mormons drink alcohol?

None of these things they do, according to religious scripture and beliefs are illegal. Why should I stop them?

Ed - I really don't understand your need to intrude into people's bedrooms. Do we ban homosexuality? It isn't illegal. People were living polygamous lives even without the sanction of a religion. Do we ban them to given they aren't doing so under any religious order?

I don't like this debate. It isn't even reasonable and I can see that I can't get through with reason.

Samran, your examples are desperate.

None of the above are laws that say anyone must do anything. They are choices that people may make. They are within existing OZ law.

Over time OZ has developed a culture and laws that suit it. Nothing you mention contradicts that.

But you refuse to accept that these Muslims move in and try to impose their laws and religious beliefs on others. It is silly to propose that anyone cares if Mormons do or don't drink alcohol, or if Jews have two kitchens. That has no affect on anyone else. It has never been a problem.

Muslims do want to change things in ways that affect everyone else. They want to bring their own laws. It's not a problem if they want to make food choices for themselves or even pray to Mecca. It is a huge problem when they won't assimilate and accept OZ laws and obey them.

Never before have I seen a people who are invited as guests as we constantly remind ourselves we are in Thailand, and then try to eat the host. They are parasites on the culture without assimilating. Nothing you say will change that.

Thank you, you have summed it up in a nutshell. Muslims, at least those that have been accepted by host countries, must be the most dissatisfied, demanding people on the face of the planet. A sense of fun, humour and zest for life seems to have been bred out of them, and they won't be satisfied until all of life's pleasures are denied the rest of us.

[samran]

If folk want to move to a foreign land they must forget all their daft religious laws. If they cannot cope with the "new" lands laws and way of life then stay in their own country. It is soooooo easy, but alas their country doesn't have social security and benefits so they will go for the handouts and try and do their daft stuff....

So if a catholic moves to Australia, they must have an abortion which is legal in Australia even if Catholicism bans it. Do I make them get contraception? Again, against catholic doctrine. Do I make them eat meat during lent?

For a jehovah witness, so I make them take a blood transfusion to save their lives even if their faith bans it?

Do I make Orthodox Jews work on Saturday? Do I ban them from building two kitchens for the seperate preparation of food?

Do I make Sikhs cut their hair?

Do I make Mormons drink alcohol?

None of these things they do, according to religious scripture and beliefs are illegal. Why should I stop them?

Ed - I really don't understand your need to intrude into people's bedrooms. Do we ban homosexuality? It isn't illegal. People were living polygamous lives even without the sanction of a religion. Do we ban them to given they aren't doing so under any religious order?

I don't like this debate. It isn't even reasonable and I can see that I can't get through with reason.

Samran, your examples are desperate.

None of the above are laws that say anyone must do anything. They are choices that people may make. They are within existing OZ law.

Over time OZ has developed a culture and laws that suit it. Nothing you mention contradicts that.

But you refuse to accept that these Muslims move in and try to impose their laws and religious beliefs on others. It is silly to propose that anyone cares if Mormons do or don't drink alcohol, or if Jews have two kitchens. That has no affect on anyone else. It has never been a problem.

Muslims do want to change things in ways that affect everyone else. They want to bring their own laws. It's not a problem if they want to make food choices for themselves or even pray to Mecca. It is a huge problem when they won't assimilate and accept OZ laws and obey them.

Never before have I seen a people who are invited as guests as we constantly remind ourselves we are in Thailand, and then try to eat the host. They are parasites on the culture without assimilating. Nothing you say will change that.

And go back and read my previous posts, I've said where they can try to change laws, they'll fail.

I've has more Jehovah witnesses and Mormons knocking on my door trying to covert me than Muslims (none of the latter). I see more Christian nutbars wanting amendments to this law and that law.

Where they break laws, I have no problem them being prosecuted. I have no problem paying more tax if it means more national security.

Isis do bad stuff in Iraq, let me press the launcher.

But, i feel like a broken record. The fact that I don't object to Muslims living in Australia makes me in the eyes of many a terrorist sympathiser. Which I find bizarre.

They've been in Australia since settlement, we've even got a couple of Islands where Muslims predominate. Any news of special treatment from them there? No.

Rural areas are crying out for labour, and we've just had an amendment in parliament, moved by conservative senators, that will allow refugees a path to citizenship if they go work in rural areas and settle there. The majority of these people will be Muslim.

Again, just for clarity, rural conservative senators who will give your gun toting republican senators a run for their money in big C conservatism. They didn't just sign up for this, they proposed and lobbied for it.

Why have they done this? Cause after the first wave of afghan refugees came in the early 2000s came many of them settled in rural centres, where they felt most comfortable. A strange thing happened, Muslims in Australia's conservative heartland helped the regions prosper with very little in the way of social upheaval. They want this again. The gun loving conservative rural senators. They want this.

Now, I may be accused of all sorts of blindness, lefty liberal tendencies (which I always find amusing, but I digress) , but the debate is more nuanced and complex than is given credit for. Take away hysteria and most Australians treat new migrants as opportunity. That's how we've always done it, that's how we will continue to do it.

[Tep]

If folk want to move to a foreign land they must forget all their daft religious laws. If they cannot cope with the "new" lands laws and way of life then stay in their own country. It is soooooo easy, but alas their country doesn't have social security and benefits so they will go for the handouts and try and do their daft stuff....

So if a catholic moves to Australia, they must have an abortion which is legal in Australia even if Catholicism bans it. Do I make them get contraception? Again, against catholic doctrine. Do I make them eat meat during lent?

For a jehovah witness, so I make them take a blood transfusion to save their lives even if their faith bans it?

Do I make Orthodox Jews work on Saturday? Do I ban them from building two kitchens for the seperate preparation of food?

Do I make Sikhs cut their hair?

Do I make Mormons drink alcohol?

None of these things they do, according to religious scripture and beliefs are illegal. Why should I stop them?

Ed - I really don't understand your need to intrude into people's bedrooms. Do we ban homosexuality? It isn't illegal. People were living polygamous lives even without the sanction of a religion. Do we ban them to given they aren't doing so under any religious order?

I don't like this debate. It isn't even reasonable and I can see that I can't get through with reason.

Samran, your examples are desperate.

None of the above are laws that say anyone must do anything. They are choices that people may make. They are within existing OZ law.

Over time OZ has developed a culture and laws that suit it. Nothing you mention contradicts that.

But you refuse to accept that these Muslims move in and try to impose their laws and religious beliefs on others. It is silly to propose that anyone cares if Mormons do or don't drink alcohol, or if Jews have two kitchens. That has no affect on anyone else. It has never been a problem.

Muslims do want to change things in ways that affect everyone else. They want to bring their own laws. It's not a problem if they want to make food choices for themselves or even pray to Mecca. It is a huge problem when they won't assimilate and accept OZ laws and obey them.

Never before have I seen a people who are invited as guests as we constantly remind ourselves we are in Thailand, and then try to eat the host. They are parasites on the culture without assimilating. Nothing you say will change that.

You are fond of links Neversure. Has what you have stated happened in Australia? I don't just mean individuals doing unacceptable things because of their own beliefs and prejudices like the child marriage thing but is there any part of Australia that has effectively seceded from the rest and established an environment where non muslims are required to conform to laws that are not compatible with Australian laws and the Australian way of life? I am genuinely interested. All I have seen are nonsensical examples of wither stupid or criminal behaviour by individuals and using their religion to back them up. In every case, the consequence of this has been that the authorities shut it down. Just like the beheading plan.

Do you know of one place in Australia where this has happened?

Whether it will happened is an argument driven I think by fear so I won't touch that with you. I won't touch the assimilation issue or the US exeptionalism issue or any other of your hot button issues.

If there is not any place in Asutralia where what you fear has actually come to pass, then what is our debate? My argument is that we need not fear muslims or Islam because Australian institutions can deal with the issues. Plus the objections to the bigotry where people apply the actions of one individual or event or their prejudices to an entire group. That was my starting point for this entire set of discussions on this part of the thread.

I don't agree with a lot of what you say and we have tussled in the past but you are a serious poster and you like your research, so can you find anything that demonstrates this is the case in Australia?

[jacky54]

This and other threads have very little religious debate. I would like to see this debate. Always happy to learn new things. This and other threads have generally been a hate-fest on muslims. In this case, muslims in Australia and the targeting of san entire sub culture through the actions of a few.

care to point out the 'hate' on Muslims? I have before posted a link for the whole koran online so people can read for themselves as well as dozens of suras and haddith quotes along with links to websites. Some of these were deleted as 'off topic' If you cannot get past the fact the being a critic of Islam is NOT hate towards Muslims then you cannot really enter into a religious debate. The actions of a few, or the majority quietly supporting them can not alter Islam for the better or worse, it is what it is, a divisive, non integrating social religious and political system that spread by violence and threats, but which is a master of promoting itself as the permanent victim.

[Tep]

Now go away fool.

You finally says something interesting about Afghanistan. Bring it on. Here or another thread. I'm sure I can cope.

[JockPieandBeans]

This and other threads have very little religious debate. I would like to see this debate. Always happy to learn new things. This and other threads have generally been a hate-fest on muslims. In this case, muslims in Australia and the targeting of san entire sub culture through the actions of a few.

care to point out the 'hate' on Muslims? I have before posted a link for the whole koran online so people can read for themselves as well as dozens of suras and haddith quotes along with links to websites. Some of these were deleted as 'off topic' If you cannot get past the fact the being a critic of Islam is NOT hate towards Muslims then you cannot really enter into a religious debate. The actions of a few, or the majority quietly supporting them can not alter Islam for the better or worse, it is what it is, a divisive, non integrating social religious and political system that spread by violence and threats, but which is a master of promoting itself as the permanent victim.

It would also be prudent to point out, that a poster who has been loudly shouting about hate, Religious Intolerance and bigotry. Has himself had several posts deleted today.

Why ?

They contained the the very thing, that he has been shouting about.

[Tep]

This and other threads have very little religious debate. I would like to see this debate. Always happy to learn new things. This and other threads have generally been a hate-fest on muslims. In this case, muslims in Australia and the targeting of san entire sub culture through the actions of a few.

care to point out the 'hate' on Muslims? I have before posted a link for the whole koran online so people can read for themselves as well as dozens of suras and haddith quotes along with links to websites. Some of these were deleted as 'off topic' If you cannot get past the fact the being a critic of Islam is NOT hate towards Muslims then you cannot really enter into a religious debate. The actions of a few, or the majority quietly supporting them can not alter Islam for the better or worse, it is what it is, a divisive, non integrating social religious and political system that spread by violence and threats, but which is a master of promoting itself as the permanent victim.

Posted a link to the Koran? I didn't see it but then I don't read all threads so might have missed it.

But that is not discussion and not many people will read it. What I want to know is how Australia will impact on Islam and how will Islam adapt to the Australian way of life. I am not really interested in the ideology but happy to learn. More interested in the history and politics of the ideology. When Islam meets modern democracies, the traditions structures may not cope. Narrow interpretation of scripture, fatwas on disobedience and all the medieval stuff doesn't help a muslim in Australia cope with daily life. I am waiting to hear opinion on this. You may have some technical knowledge. Others may have personal experiences that can inform the debate. I never interacted with a mulsim in Australia, only in other muslim countries.

If this is a debate about Islam, why then does it descend into anti-immigration territory? Why are bicultural individuals or other minorities attacked for sharing their experiences and supporting diversity?

Since you are not Australian, like many posters here, you may not know of the Australian expression 'Fair Go'. It applies to muslims as well.

[jacky54]

fair go does not include having a go at be heading people on the street though does it. Tolerance of an intolerant and fanatical religion can only ever have one outcome- conflict eventually

[Tep]

This and other threads have very little religious debate. I would like to see this debate. Always happy to learn new things. This and other threads have generally been a hate-fest on muslims. In this case, muslims in Australia and the targeting of san entire sub culture through the actions of a few.

care to point out the 'hate' on Muslims? I have before posted a link for the whole koran online so people can read for themselves as well as dozens of suras and haddith quotes along with links to websites. Some of these were deleted as 'off topic' If you cannot get past the fact the being a critic of Islam is NOT hate towards Muslims then you cannot really enter into a religious debate. The actions of a few, or the majority quietly supporting them can not alter Islam for the better or worse, it is what it is, a divisive, non integrating social religious and political system that spread by violence and threats, but which is a master of promoting itself as the permanent victim.

It would also be prudent to point out, that a poster who has been loudly shouting about hate, Religious Intolerance and bigotry. Has himself had several posts deleted today.

Why ?

They contained the the very thing, that he has been shouting about.

You have something to say about Jihadism in Australia your Majesty? You want to engage on issues. Happy to oblige. So you are talking to me now or this is an exception. I just engaged two posters whose views are diametrically opposed to mine. What have you done today apart from some self serving pompous nonsense.

You have nothing to tell us about Australia. You admit to no connection with us. When you do have some connection, feel free to post.

[samran]

fair go does not include having a go at be heading people on the street though does it. Tolerance of an intolerant and fanatical religion can only ever have one outcome- conflict eventually

Nor does it include tar and feathering everyone else of the same religion. Unless your definition of fair differs somewhat from the standard definitions.