Has anyone swapped/traded his Bangkok Condo for one in USA? if yes what was procedure since I have a

[farang101]

person who says he will swap his USA house for my Bangkok Thailand the difference in money is $50,000 USD I would have to pay hime or he would give me a mortgage at 7 percent. I have someone in the USA area of his house and did a search of the property online and it is estimated by Zillow website at close to that price he wants. I have owned my Thailand Condo for over 4 years and my wife who is Thai has been given her second interview for Green Card, they say at USA Embassy to get a Domicile since I have lived here for almost 10 years and have given up my apartment but not my USA Bank account I have been retired the whole time here. I should have my TOr Tor3 from the Bank when I bought it.

I just want to know the procedure if my friend back home likes it for me, he lives in the area of the house and the owner is mailing him a key. I have over 50 pictures of it.

If we agree on the price and all, how to we go about getting the deed from USA house transferred to me and for my end here, do we make up a contract and go to the lands office ? What kind of proof do I need from him in USA to prove we actually transferred my unit for $200,000 USD and gave him either the $50,000 in Baht transferred to his Thailand bank account, since he says he comes here 4 times a year and owns a Condo and this will be for rental purposes?

Is this a difficult process? Do I need to hire an Attorney here? and also hire an appraiser and Attorney in USA?

Thank you in advance for any feedback and help on this matter and sorry for the long story.

I am at the age where I cannot afford any mistakes since this is my savings and the house in USA is basically renovated but I will need money for a car, a washer and dryer, furnishings, lawn mower, TV, etc etc, while this unit is a one bedroom and sound proofed in both rooms, all new appliances, new Air cons renovate and extra bathroom recently installed, open views, mirrored walls etc etc in secure building high floors however as good as it is my wife and I feel USA with my retirement and Medicare etc will be better and I am tired of living in an apartment, This house will have a swimming pool attached, totally renovated with a full kitchen and private 3 bedroom house with ceiling fans.

Still will be allot of work since I never lived in or owned a house always Apartments or Condos that were taken care of by Management.

Don't need a car where I am here but there will need one or maybe two.

Since she never learned to drive she is going for driver lessons here.

I still have my USA drivers license so basically for me it is just renewing my Medicare Part B and pay the penalty probably 20 percent for the years I have been here? Any feedback especially someone with actually experience would be wonderful. Thanks again

[KittenKong]

In order for a foreign person to buy your condo here in his own name he must import foreign currency to at least the appraised value of the unit (or the declared sale price if higher) and exchange it into Baht and present an FET certificate (ex TT3) for that amount at the Land Office. However he doesn't actually have to give the money to you. You can work out between you what you actually want to pay and how to pay it.

There will also be taxes/fees of about 5-6% to pay here on the sale/transfer, and these are calculated on the same price. You might also want to engage a lawyer.

Some people have FET certificates issued by "helpful" agents and bank managers, and you can wonder about the legality of that. Other options might include company/nominee ownership, which is also of dubious legality.

I suggest you watch out for scams with the arrangement you are describing. It would be simpler all round to treat the thing as two totally independent transactions and I would sleep much easier doing it that way.

[farang101]

In order for a foreign person to buy your condo here in his own name he must import foreign currency to at least the appraised value of the unit (or the declared sale price if higher) and exchange it into Baht and present an FET certificate (ex TT3) for that amount at the Land Office. However he doesn't actually have to give the money to you. You can work out between you what you actually want to pay and how to pay it.

There will also be taxes/fees of about 5-6% to pay here on the sale/transfer, and these are calculated on the same price. You might also want to engage a lawyer.

Some people have FET certificates issued by "helpful" agents and bank managers, and you can wonder about the legality of that. Other options might include company/nominee ownership, which is also of dubious legality.

I suggest you watch out for scams with the arrangement you are describing. It would be simpler all round to treat the thing as two totally independent transactions and I would sleep much easier doing it that way.

[farang101]

Thank you very much for that info and advice, as for sleeping better, I guess doing it without any problems as you suggest would be a good idea. He seems to be carefree about it since he might have a business here and he told my friend who is going to look the house over in USA that he was using this Condo for his employees and not to live in.

He will still have to look mine over and I still need an appraisal before we can negotiate how much exactly and how to go about the transfer.

I am sure I have my TT3 from when I purchased it about 4 years ago.?

As for the details on how to buy/sell in USA I totally forgot but I did sell a Co op in 99 and we had Attorneys do a closing and that is all I remember. I also was hoping to save on Attorneys fees and all but Maybe your way is safer?

Thanks again.

[KittenKong]

Your TT3 is largely irrelevant (except in as much as it will let you export your money easily). It's his FET (ex-TT3) that is important as without that he simply cant buy a condo his own name.

If as you imply he might be wanting to buy in company name then the situation is very different. You should clarify all this with him before thinking any more about it.

[farang101]

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Your TT3 is largely irrelevant (except in as much as it will let you export your money easily). It's his FET (ex-TT3) that is important as without that he simply cant buy a condo his own name.

If as you imply he might be wanting to buy in company name then the situation is very different. You should clarify all this with him before thinking any more about it.

thanks again I just got home. I don't know until he arrives and approves and agrees on my place for $200,000.

As you say I do not need the TT3 however, the benefit of a swap I thought would be that he does not give me any money in my account for the Condo, only a contract and whatever they use in the USA to sell houses with.

Then we and whoever else hired like a lawyer or Real Estate Agent or both and us go to Land office to sell my place to him and I guess show in Thai and English the sale was a swap and not cash.

I still have to give him up to $50,000 USD to balance out the sale.

So if no money by him is changing hands I don't see how he can get a TT3 since he is not sending money here to buy it ?

If we decide to do as you suggest and he does a purchase in Baht to me for the $200,000 and he has the money from USA then the TT3 will have to be shown.

I just wonder if anyone else has had experience with a swap before it seems you are the only one responding to the right now. I was hoping to hear from someone with actual experience to see how they did it.

In any case I will hope for the best and wait and see.

[KittenKong]

So if no money by him is changing hands I don't see how he can get a TT3 since he is not sending money here to buy it ?

This is my point: he cant do this. He must produce an FET certificate (however obtained) in his own name for the full appraised or declared value (whichever is the higher) if he wishes to buy in his own name. Whether none, some or all of the cash actually changes hands or not is irrelevant.

[DogNo1]

A trivial point but FYI, the penalty for each year that you didn't have Medicare when you should have been enrolled and paying premiums is 10%. If, for example, you didn't pay premiums for 5 years, then your penalty would be 50% times $109 or $54.50. Your premium after you start paying again will $163.50 from then on. You will actually have saved money by not paying your premiums until nearly ten years have passed. After that breakeven point, you will start paying more by $54.50 per month than you would have paid otherwise.

Incidentally, when I return to the USA because I am feak and weeble, I intend to rent rather than buy. A separate house would be best but sometimes large and quiet condos are nice. Some house owners are house-rich but cash-poor. I'd rather be cash-rich. Good luck!

[farang101]

So if no money by him is changing hands I don't see how he can get a TT3 since he is not sending money here to buy it ?

This is my point: he cant do this. He must produce an FET certificate (however obtained) in his own name for the full appraised or declared value (whichever is the higher) if he wishes to buy in his own name. Whether none, some or all of the cash actually changes hands or not is irrelevant.

thanks again for your feedback, My wife is Thai and called the Land office again to ask and they too said that swapping is not allowed without the money transfer documents. Fear of money laundering etc.

My friend in Florida just left me a voice message that the house is basically ok

and the best thing about it is that it is waterfront property with pool. Not beach front but water front. That is the main value he said as he lives 20 minutes away for the last 18 years or so.

I also contacted Zillow website and they do Zestimates of houses for sale and I asked about the house and it is listed off and on for a few years under a Company name that sounded Asian.

The fact that he comes here four times a year and has a Company here probably from what he told my friend when he sent him keys leads us to believe that he might have what it takes to do a swap some how but as you say and all the Agents in that area that I spoke with who recommended Title search agents and Lawyer there, it would wise to have both Lawyers here and there.

Again thanks for your help in this matter and we will hopefully meet with him end of the month to discuss all this.

[farang101]

A trivial point but FYI, the penalty for each year that you didn't have Medicare when you should have been enrolled and paying premiums is 10%. If, for example, you didn't pay premiums for 5 years, then your penalty would be 50% times $109 or $54.50. Your premium after you start paying again will $163.50 from then on. You will actually have saved money by not paying your premiums until nearly ten years have passed. After that breakeven point, you will start paying more by $54.50 per month than you would have paid otherwise.

Incidentally, when I return to the USA because I am feak and weeble, I intend to rent rather than buy. A separate house would be best but sometimes large and quiet condos are nice. Some house owners are house-rich but cash-poor. I'd rather be cash-rich. Good luck!

thank you for your feedback since I did write Philippines asking the same question and still no reply yet.

I am not fully understanding but say I have lives here since 2006 or 2007 I have to check to verify exact date I stopped paying for Part B Medicare? The amount say for seven years would be 70 percent of $109. So my premium would be very high?

I am thick headed and not understand this part of your statement can you explain?

Your premium after you start paying again will $163.50 from then on. You will actually have saved money by not paying your premiums until nearly ten years have passed. After that breakeven point, you will start paying more by $54.50 per month than you would have paid otherwise.

How is this a breakeven point?

Please explain since we are definitely going back.

As your comment about renting when you come back.

My problems in living in Apartment or our Condo here has been the people that come to visit this busy area of Bangkok and are really party goers.

I am an early to bed and early to rise guy at this age and find it difficult living in that environment . Also the savings we have made by paying low Common charges which just went up to 46000 baht a year has given us an advantage of being able to save some money for the move.

If we paid rent all these years we would have thrown the money away I feel.

As for renting in USA when we go back, that just might be if this deal falls through and we cannot get someone to buy ours since I have been advertising for sale or swap for awhile now and asking best offer all the time and not getting any offers and we did sound proof our one bedroom 72 sqm and put in new bathrooms and ceiling fans and new air cons and washer and dryer all from Homepro plus.

Many renovations and this being the best unit we have seen in our building and the new Condo just built across from us is 46 sqm for one bedroom at 7 million baht

we are asking approximately 6.5 million for our furnished and rebuilt and sound proofed so selling is difficult at least for us these days.

So if I can swap with this guy at least and it is legit and works out some how by some miracle and we can get out of here soon, I at least will have waterfront property and a pool and three bedrooms on some land that is 15 minute drive from a huge shopping center with a 20 minute ride to old friends that have lived in that area for the last 18 years. He just left me a message on Magic jack that he is there now and taking pictures of the house and the best thing about it is that it is waterfront property and basically a decent renovated house with 3 bedrooms and nice bathrooms and pool and closets.

So he sounds like he is recommending that it is ok and he is sending pics and video of what he sees other than what the seller sent us.

The big problem as we are told by everyone is this TT3 not being allowed for swapping.

When he gets here the end of the month we will see what his Attorneys can work out and I will have to hire one here and in USA since I did contact Zillow and some agents in the area have given us some leads on local Attorneys and others that will investigate the house and also what my friends Attorney will say.

The cost of dealing with these other Lawyers will increase our base cost but like mentioned sleeping better with professional help is worth the cost.

Thanks for your feedback.

[farang101]

In order for a foreign person to buy your condo here in his own name he must import foreign currency to at least the appraised value of the unit (or the declared sale price if higher) and exchange it into Baht and present an FET certificate (ex TT3) for that amount at the Land Office. However he doesn't actually have to give the money to you. You can work out between you what you actually want to pay and how to pay it.

There will also be taxes/fees of about 5-6% to pay here on the sale/transfer, and these are calculated on the same price. You might also want to engage a lawyer.

Some people have FET certificates issued by "helpful" agents and bank managers, and you can wonder about the legality of that. Other options might include company/nominee ownership, which is also of dubious legality.

I suggest you watch out for scams with the arrangement you are describing. It would be simpler all round to treat the thing as two totally independent transactions and I would sleep much easier doing it that way.

hi i don't know if you are getting this but I did contact the prospective swapper of our Condo and wrote him what you had written about the TT3 new form which I sent him. He is coming to Thailand to see me next Sunday to see if her really wants mine and I have had a friend in his area get a key from the seller of the house and he went to look and take pictures. He said it was worth it based on water front property but that the house without the location would be worth 100,000 USD less in his opinion as a home owner 40 minutes away from this.

However, I did have some agents who do real estate in that area give me an idea what the situation will be like if I did get to swap and they are on Zillow as agents and gave me names of property search people and Lawyers to use for closing and investigating. They all came up with the Name the House is under and it is a Corporation so when I told the owner about the TT3 he said he has all his properties under his business and wants this Condo for his employees for his business here.

So he will contact his Lawyer in Bangkok about the details if he does like ours and we can come up with an agreement. I also suggested as you said that he have the money sent here with intent to purchase and we work out some deal on returning it after the sale on this end at Land Office, so we will see what his lawyer says and I contacted a couple of Lawyers here and one said he would do the land office for us for 20,000 baht I don't know if that is reasonable, since he was recommended by a co owner here and this Lawyer is retired.

We shall see so again thanks for your help, no one else wrote me so I wonder if this was listed for people to see, since I did not see it written anywhere? How did you get to see it was it posted on the forum?

[KittenKong]

As I tried to make clear: if he is buying in company name then he wont need an FET form nor does he need to actually send any money here.

But I do wonder why he is prepared to use his company to buy a farang-name condo when he could probably just buy a similar Thai-name or company-name unit in the same building for less.

I've known several people fall victim to property scams here and any sort of sale/purchase that doesnt follow the normal procedure of paying on the nail seems to be asking for trouble to me. I recommend that in both countries you engage your own lawyers who should not be known to any other party.

[farang101]

thanks for that I did not understand but now I understand a bit more about a Corp buying, As for his reasoning if and when, I could only guess that he is having problems selling his house in Florida and he saw my ad for a swap and figured instead of leaving it empty and paying for maintaining and taxes whatever it might be easier to take the unit here , if he likes it for his employees to stay here, and get rid of his headache in Florida.

He still saves on the Real estate fees for selling his, and he wants the balance in cash or he will give me a mortgage and get 7 percent interest on that money, if we agree.

The house is empty and this is totally sound proofed and many things are already installed like new washer and dryer, new air cons, new mirrors on all walls. still has one bedroom with a 55 inch Samsung 3d Smart tv, queen bed, Homepro, new bathrooms with two showers and new tiles,

so he gets many things and ready to move in whereas I have buy a car or two since it is out of the way, and I need furniture and water purifier there and pay for things that I don't need here in Bkk.

In any case it is something that is all hypothetical if he does not like this or he as you say can buy one here in the building which might be cheaper but I know these units and nobody fixed them like we did.

Also I was told his House has been on and off the market for quite a few years so he bought it as a foreclosure and fixed it up but as my friend that went to see it after he sent him keys, and my friend said it is not built special it is ok but if it was not water front property it would be worth $100,000 less so maybe it might work for both of us?

Again we already contacted lawyer here who will handle our end here, and as for there we will hire an Attorney in the area either through the people we contacted on Zillow.com or through my friend who has lived in the area for 18 years and has a house there.

Yes it could be a tricky and dangerous situation or we can keep this and go there for a few years and see if my wife can handle living away from her Thai family and friends and handle the people, places and things she is not used to.

I know for me that I have been here 9 years already and tired of paying for Insurance at almost 68 but no real coverage as I could be getting with penalty and all from Medicare Part B payments I will still be doing better and for her at 36 and healthy with Obama care she would also be getting better coverage than she gets here.

We pay almost $3500 USD a year for Insurance and I do not want to do it this year.

We shall see how this goes but again thanks for your help and wonder why no one else wrote in about swapping here and why the Land office told my wife that it cannot be done.

???

Sincerely

[KittenKong]

.... I could only guess that he is having problems selling his house in Florida .....

Also I was told his House has been on and off the market for quite a few years so he bought it as a foreclosure and fixed it up but as my friend that went to see it after he sent him keys, and my friend said it is not built special it is ok but if it was not water front property it would be worth $100,000 less

To my way of thinking anything that has been advertised but doesn't sell within a few weeks must be overpriced. This probably explains why he is looking at other ways of disposing of it without reducing the price to a sensible level at which it would sell.

Again we already contacted lawyer here who will handle our end here,

If I were you I would get my own lawyers: just for me. He can get his own too.

... why the Land office told my wife that it cannot be done.

Because for a farang purchase of a farang-name unit it cant be done. For company-name or Thai-name purchase it can be done but that probably wasn't what your wife asked them. This has been covered.

[farang101]

yes correct about the Land office question, and also about the price however when I did a search on the property on Google and went to Zillow.com and they have Real Estate Agents and lawyers in the area and Property searches from Century 21 and others and they were the ones that gave me the date of purchase and the name of the Company it is listed under and when it was bought and other info.

They also said they would ride by and see what other details they could give me and the Zillow estimate of the homes nearby and this one. It was listed as 236000 approximately in their evaluation.

It is basically empty and I will need money for furniture and vehicle and water filtration and pool maintaining and many other things.

The pictures look nice but compared to what we have here and the location we are in I would like to negotiate a lower price than he wants since I do not want to have a mortgage on the balance and just use the money I have for my retirement visa in the bank and the balance of the other accounts which total about $32,000 USD or so. Maybe he might be willing to take the baht transfer here in total and my unit has many extras and is move in furnished condition compared to his, which is in need of many Thousands of dollars to get livable.

In any case I feel a bit better about this info on the Corp. and in another week when and if he comes to look at ours and see what he says.

It seems we both have a vested interest in this working since I have been trying to sell for a few years and that is why I came up with the swap ad idea in USA and it is a possibility that can work for him and me.

No real estate commissions and saving for him to not have to continue to pay taxes and maintaining the property.

There are many houses there for sale at around that price it seems and USA real estate has been in trouble for awhile as we all know.

Still allot of people waiting to see if the unemployment gets better or worse and what is going to happen with interest rates etc. I don't know what is going to happen but i do feel that since my wife wants USA and my Medicare is better than my insurance here and I am tired of the 90 day reports and the Visa every year, that I might be better off back home after these 9 years or so here.

Thanks again for allowing me to share my concerns and your helpful feedback and I will do as you suggest with the Lawyers on both parts of the Globe to handle this for me.

[KittenKong]

It seems we both have a vested interest in this working since I have been trying to sell for a few years and that is why I came up with the swap ad idea in USA and it is a possibility that can work for him and me.

If you also have a property that hasn't sold after several years then it is probably overpriced too, and swapping one overpriced property for another one seems like potentially a fair trade.