Engine oil is consistently overfilled by the dealer

[dBrown]

There's obviously 9mm of oil left in the container when they've filled the correct amount so it's a dealer freebie like air over the correct pressure in the tyres .

But don't dealers use bulk oil in 55gl drums and pump & measure it out into a metering container and then pour it in? I know most here do that, it's far cheaper and easier too with no containers to dispose of.

WarpSpeed, not sure about that. Every time my oil has been changed, they thereafter offer me the plastic oil container with the remainder of the unused oil still in the container, which I think is a policy to not only offer the remaining unused oil to the customer, but also to show what type of oil they put in. I always politely refuse to receive the container, and I have never checked the capacity, but I'm guessing it's 4 or 5 liters. In any event (with this dealer at least), they don't appear to be using the large drums of oil.

Ok well that's a potential problem to begin with if they can't do the math to convert from quarts to liters but still It's easy enough to predict by throwing in the first 3 or 4 depending on how much total and more slowly put in the last container while monitoring the dipstick level. Shouldn't be all that complicated but TiT. It's really their loss not to use bulk oil, It's easier and cheaper, but maybe they feel they can't keep good inventory or track the use without the containers to account for it.

Toyota dealers in Thailand all use Toyota branded oil in different size packings. On the receipt is clearly written the amount of oil that has been used and the recipient is charged for, and the remainder of the oil is given to the car owner.This is policy from almost all major car manufacturers in Thailand

So it would be very easy and simple for the OP to figure out exactly how much oil is added to the engine and compare this with the required amount written in the manual that came with his car purchase.

Of course it is so much more interesting to refuse the oil given at the end of the service and then complain on Thaivisa about facts he isn't certain about.

Edited September 20, 2014 by dBrown

[thrilled]

It's not rocket science.If the manual says 5 quarts.Put 5 quarts in it.You might want to go buy the oil you want in it.Go to A shop

Tell the man to change the oil and put the oil you bought in it.Problem solved.

[Gsxrnz]

I used to work at a gas station as a teenager. The boss was most insistent that I always offered to check the oil of every customer. His catchphrase was "they haven't invented an engine yet that you can't squeeze another quart of oil into".

OP - grossly overfilling is not beneficial to the motor, but rest assured the inscrutable Japanese will have built in a tolerance in their engine design to allow for a slight overfill. I mean, if the fill level is assumed to be so critical as suggested my some posters, every time you drove up or down hill with the correct level you'd be damaging your engine as the crank would be hammering the oil at the deep end.

We're talking about a low revving, robust diesel engine here - not an F1 pulling 18,000RPM's.

Also, a 9mm deviation could be achieved if the car was on a left/right uphill/downhill lean. As a double check, run the engine hot, turn off and wait 10 minutes, chech the level in situ. Then drive the car out and repark it in the same place facing the opposite direction. Check the dipstick after a matching cooling down period. Any difference on the stick will tell you if the levels were affecting the reading.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Gsxrnz

[ThaidDown]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

The Toyota manual is very specific about this: anything above the high-level mark is "overfilled". And I beg to differ: 9mm represents roughly a third of the distance on the dipstick between the low-level and the high-level mark, which would imply that the engine has 33% more oil than it should.

The assumption that the engine is overfilled by a third is incorrect. The lower level indicates the least amount of oil in the engine for it to run safely. It does not indicate that the engine is empty of oil.

For a small engine the amount of oil to be added to go from the lower mark to the upper mark is of the order of 1 litre. The exact amount, of course, depends on the engine. That said he oil level should still not be above the 'full' mark.

Around our way, Rayong, Toyota use 6 litre and 1 litre containers and provide the empties and leftovers when collecting vehicle.

Not fully draining the old oil and adding the service book amount could account for the overfill.

[lostinisaan]

Same happened to me when I went for oil changes with my Mitsu L 200. I buy the oil, plus filter and if I don't tell them to fill in only 5.5 liters, they fill in 6!

It's so easy to drain some oil. Take the dipstick out, put a tiny tube in, no need to go to another shop.

But here's a serious question: " Why can't you just look it up online, how much oil's needed, then tell them to fill in this amount and not more?

[transam]

I used to work at a gas station as a teenager. The boss was most insistent that I always offered to check the oil of every customer. His catchphrase was "they haven't invented an engine yet that you can't squeeze another quart of oil into".

OP - grossly overfilling is not beneficial to the motor, but rest assured the inscrutable Japanese will have built in a tolerance in their engine design to allow for a slight overfill. I mean, if the fill level is assumed to be so critical as suggested my some posters, every time you drove up or down hill with the correct level you'd be damaging your engine as the crank would be hammering the oil at the deep end.

We're talking about a low revving, robust diesel engine here - not an F1 pulling 18,000RPM's.

Also, a 9mm deviation could be achieved if the car was on a left/right uphill/downhill lean. As a double check, run the engine hot, turn off and wait 10 minutes, chech the level in situ. Then drive the car out and repark it in the same place facing the opposite direction. Check the dipstick after a matching cooling down period. Any difference on the stick will tell you if the levels were affecting the reading.

Correct......The main reason there is a deep part to a sump, so the pick-up is always in oil regardless of the terrain being dealt with. Quick street drag cars run the quarter with the oil at the back end, crank in it. But, serious guys fit a windage tray, which is a sheet of fabricated tin bolted to the main caps to keep the crank away from the sump oil, but oil that lands in the tray can be picked up for lubrication purposes. This tray improves race times as a resistance has been removed.

Many engines bores are lubricated by the crank picking up oil and chucking it about.

[Daffy D]

I agree that the crank hitting an over filled sump is BAD news.

But I think the point here is that a reputable service department that knows it's stuff should not overfill or under fill the oil. It's sloppy work and would make me worry about any other work they did on the car

Just as an aside, The left over oil they give me is used to lubricate house fan bearings. Works a treat

[circusman]

It amazes me that all you people have time for posts like this. AMAZED in THAILAND.

I had it happen to me and now I watch like an eagle as they refill. It is a case of MORE is BETTER.

[mihalis]

If its been happening more than a few times, then, why wouldnt you point it out the the service department before you left dealership..

[Doc46]

You are not serious are you? they go by volume when they service a vehicle The dipstick is not always the rite reading,,Don't worry,, !

[BSJ]

They are adding the required amount of oil....so the dipstick is wrong. Seriously, you have the wrong dipstick!

"They are adding the required amount of oil" - how do we know that?

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's tongue in cheek, he's mimicking the expected answer, you know? The "old we can't be wrong so you must have the wrong dipstick" type of answer? Though not sure as he has added "seriously" to his comment.

Well I am glad someones on the ball!

[tigermonkey]

I'm not saying that you have the same situation, but I had a similar experience with a local dealer (not Toyota) in Lamphun. The first time that it was over-filled, I let it go, but then it happened a second time, so I did some further snooping. The oil filter was quite dirty on the outside, and had obviously not been changed.

I went back to the dealer and very politely suggested that they might have forgotten to change the filter. The service manager spoke with the mechanic, and indeed he never changed oil filters on my model, because it was too difficult without the special tool, specified by the manufacturer - however, he was certain that he had added the correct amount of oil. which of course caused it to over-fill..

Everything was quickly corrected and no problem since then.

[ukguyinthai]

Toyota have a "high level" mark for a good reason.

But you will never get a positive response by explaining your concerns,you will be treat as a troublemaker ( as you already know)

But get your facts together and tell them any way.At best they will listen then walk away from you and have lunch without saying a word to you.

The service in this country is abysmal most of the time.But if we adopt a "no point saying anything" approach then it will never improve.

[transam]

Also, when they change the oil and filter they start the engine to fill the filter up and then top up. But a lot of that oil will still be in oil galleries, lifters etc, so if you drive home, leave it for a while, oil will drain back into the sump and perhaps be a tad high on the stick. Soon as you start the engine, after a couple of seconds, that level will drop.

[bender92]

You should let the engine cool down, some oil is still on the parts when it is hot, give it time to run back to the oil pan.

[dBrown]

Toyota have a "high level" mark for a good reason.

But you will never get a positive response by explaining your concerns,you will be treat as a troublemaker ( as you already know)

But get your facts together and tell them any way.At best they will listen then walk away from you and have lunch without saying a word to you.

The service in this country is abysmal most of the time.But if we adopt a "no point saying anything" approach then it will never improve.

But if we adopt a "no point saying anything" approach then it will never improve.

And thinking it will approve when you rightful point it out is just wishful thinking.

[dBrown]

You should let the engine cool down, some oil is still on the parts when it is hot, give it time to run back to the oil pan.

Ahem. when oil is still on the parts, the dipstick will show a lower reading.

[poweratradio]

If this has been happening for years why not raise it with them previously?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's a good question. A couple of reasons: Previously, I wasn't certain how much of an issue it should be, and also, I had very little confidence in them taking the matter seriously.

The over filling will not hurt the internal workings of your engine but can contribute to over pressure on oil seals causing leaks and low engine oil will be the cause of big problems.

[PEAP]

Hello! Hello! SIMPLE AS SH##T, My Isuzu dealer, changes the oil plus any other service(filter) refills with oil then after a brief warm up run + a rest inserts a graduated tube into the dipstick tube and then electrically pumps any excess oil out of the engine. Result always correct oil level. Wake up all you theorists and find a good service centre.

[Honkeydog]

Happens to me in USA all the time too. One mass market oil changer said they had a book that said how much to put in and that was what they were gong to do no matter what I said. So I said you get no more of my business. My owners manual states a lesser amount than they want to put in, Arragonce!

[Anon999]

It seems to be a habit at various dealers in Thailand. They tend to run the engine switch it off then immediately check the oil level before it has had time to drain into the sump from all the various oilways, etc. Consequently gets overfilled as a result. You should let the engine cool, like overnight, check the level, assuming the car is on a level surface and then top it up, if necessary. Must admit I've never had cause to top up my cars as the level never gets lower than halfway between full and minimum between services,

[whaleboneman]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

The Toyota manual is very specific about this: anything above the high-level mark is "overfilled". And I beg to differ: 9mm represents roughly a third of the distance on the dipstick between the low-level and the high-level mark, which would imply that the engine has 33% more oil than it should.

In my experience, the difference between low and full is usually about 1 liter. So in your case, the engine has 1/3 liter extra oil and not 33% extra. And I have never heard of a rod being bent by too much oil. Someone is dreaming there.

[whaleboneman]

Hello! Hello! SIMPLE AS SH##T, My Isuzu dealer, changes the oil plus any other service(filter) refills with oil then after a brief warm up run + a rest inserts a graduated tube into the dipstick tube and then electrically pumps any excess oil out of the engine. Result always correct oil level. Wake up all you theorists and find a good service centre.

a service center that regularly overfills an engine and has to pump it out is "good" to you? I have always changed my own oil (even in brand new cars) and can tell you that I have never had to pump out any excess. I also fill my filter before installing.

[WarpSpeed]

I'm not saying that you have the same situation, but I had a similar experience with a local dealer (not Toyota) in Lamphun. The first time that it was over-filled, I let it go, but then it happened a second time, so I did some further snooping. The oil filter was quite dirty on the outside, and had obviously not been changed.

I went back to the dealer and very politely suggested that they might have forgotten to change the filter. The service manager spoke with the mechanic, and indeed he never changed oil filters on my model, because it was too difficult without the special tool, specified by the manufacturer - however, he was certain that he had added the correct amount of oil. which of course caused it to over-fill..

Everything was quickly corrected and no problem since then.

Except it's far more important to change the filter then it is even to change the oil..If the pressure builds up behind the filter it will cause the bypass to open to prevent the engine from starving for oil and then dirty unfiltered oil will pass the filter doing serious harm if this goes on too long. These days the oil maintains good viscosity for longer then the past so changing the filter is far more important.

[WarpSpeed]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

The Toyota manual is very specific about this: anything above the high-level mark is "overfilled". And I beg to differ: 9mm represents roughly a third of the distance on the dipstick between the low-level and the high-level mark, which would imply that the engine has 33% more oil than it should.

In my experience, the difference between low and full is usually about 1 liter. So in your case, the engine has 1/3 liter extra oil and not 33% extra. And I have never heard of a rod being bent by too much oil. Someone is dreaming there.

Wrong on both counts it is 33% if it's 1/3rd and just because YOU (who ever YOU are?) hasn't heard of it happening doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I have personally seen bent rods from this very circumstance so I guess YOU'RE not as well versed as you think since YOU never have seen one.. Suspect you must be dreaming..

Edited September 20, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Also, when they change the oil and filter they start the engine to fill the filter up and then top up. But a lot of that oil will still be in oil galleries, lifters etc, so if you drive home, leave it for a while, oil will drain back into the sump and perhaps be a tad high on the stick. Soon as you start the engine, after a couple of seconds, that level will drop.

I'd never let them do this, that moment of running the engine dry ads up to a much shorter life span for the engine, not to day but definitely tomorrow down the road, the filter should always be filled with oil first before installing. Another major reason I do my own oil changes.

[jacko45k]

It will ride down with wear.

Are you sure this minimal overfill is so much of a worry?

I am guessing the guy just uses all of the bottle, quite refreshing as my beer is often served 9mm low!

[Lickey]

Some "enginneer" said that pistons rely on crank oil splash to lubricate them, to my knowledge, Cumminns Diesels have had oil pressured cooling/lubricating nozzles fitted since the late 50s, or even before, they squirt oil up into the piston skirt, cooling and lubricating them,

[bluejets]

I remember when Kay Cottee sailed solo around the world, wouldn't use the generator as she couldn't see oil when she took the cap off the rocker cover.

Now that would be overfilled !!!

[bkkjames]