Engine oil is consistently overfilled by the dealer

[WarpSpeed]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

The 3.2 Ranger, if the oil has been drained for 10 minutes or more the lubrication system will not self prime.

Hit that key and the bearings are toast... Ford released a service bulletin about this issue.

Exactly, which is why I say disconnect the coil and crank it so it doesn't start dry and primes the pump first, few people know it only takes seconds of dry run to toast the crank and rod bearings.. Especially with today's closer tolerances.

You should tell Ford how to disconnect the coil on the 3.2 diesel engine so as to avoid the known issue.

Coil is relative yes?

[Spoonman]

The 3.2 Ranger, if the oil has been drained for 10 minutes or more the lubrication system will not self prime.

Hit that key and the bearings are toast... Ford released a service bulletin about this issue.

Exactly, which is why I say disconnect the coil and crank it so it doesn't start dry and primes the pump first, few people know it only takes seconds of dry run to toast the crank and rod bearings.. Especially with today's closer tolerances.

You should tell Ford how to disconnect the coil on the 3.2 diesel engine so as to avoid the known issue.

Coil is relative yes?

relative yes, only in your world.

diesel engines don't have coils though.

Modern benzine engines do, but they are usually coil on plug kinda deal which are not easily disconnected to build oil pressure.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Spoonman

[WarpSpeed]

My meaning was, it's "relative" to the engine type, obviously it doesn't apply to an engine that doesn't have a coil or coils so therefore it's relative... A multi-coil is difficult to remove the power plug? In some yes more so then others but really that's a bit splitting hairs isn't it? Come on Spooners....

Edited September 21, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Lancashirelad]

I doubt any Thais measure oil by the quart. That measurement went out with the ark. Guess you guys still by beer by the gill.

After much discussion a poster eventually came up with my thought: Filter not changed but dealer add manufacturers listed capacity of new oil.

Surprised even main dealers don't use bulk oil.

Seems I need to start a garage business in LOS. Shouldn't be difficult to build a loyal customer base - just return the motors in a timely fashion with the correct tyre pressures, wheel nuts correctly torqued and engine oil filled to correct level.

In the old days after changing oil used to pull a wire off the coil, crank the engine on the starter until oil light goes out, then fire her up.

(notes for this post were assembled long before I read the 1st mention of the word "coil")

Edited September 21, 2014 by Lancashirelad

[Gsxrnz]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

[OZEMADE]

1. It sounds like they have not changed the oil filter, why not mark the oil filter before the next service.

2. They have emptied the contents of the oil container into the engine, why not check it when you pick it up from the dealer.

3. Why have you not changed dealers after so many instances.

[transam]

Warpy made the point that it matters about starting a dry engine and it does if it's new engine or a re-build, but and oil change! Cum on, there is a film of oil coating everything inside the engine from the old oil and it only takes seconds for the new oil to get around.

Hand cranking, cranking with the coil lead removed.....phooey!

When I built an engine dry, distributer was removed, I make a tool to go in the dizzy hole to engage the oil pump, a heavy duty power drill was attached to the tool and spinning would commence until oil pressure was acheived and a bit beyond. Dizzy back in and start the thing....

Using this technique used no force on any bearings..

Seriously mate. your wisdom and techniques correlate to the modern engine by 0%.

Why even comment on something that you clearly have no clue about ?

I post a wee bit of info and get "shit" from the usual suspects.

Whats wrong with my "tip/procedure"..?......

[Kwasaki]

I think Castrol Magnatec oils are the best, cause in highly technical terms they have that clingy stuff in them that hangs on to the bearings and metal surface areas within the engines oil channels.

[bazza40]

A lot of money is spent on oil advertising, which should tell you something.

Basically, oils can be classified as mineral oil, semi-synthetic and full synthetic. The life claimed between oil changes for mineral oil based packages is 5000 km. For a full synthetic, it's 20,000 km. Personally, I think 20,000 km is a bit of a stretch because there is a limit to the amount of unburnt fuel dilution and acidic combustion any oil can accommodate. However, I can remember a certain sales representative who drove a company car for 120,000 km without ever having the vehicle serviced. The engine oil was like tar. I sometimes wonder who the poor guy was who bought the car second-hand.

Mineral oils rely on wear additives such as zinc diethyl dithio phosphate for lubrication. Synthetics are esters, and the fatty acid moiety of the ester is an effective lubricant. There are all kinds of other additives in oils, such as anti-oxidants and detergents.

My preference is to use a semi-synthetic and change the oil every 10,000 km.

[WarpSpeed]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

Really how do you know? Do you frequent auto lots looking for such? Have you even been to a bones yard to see what's there? I have, several and besides that not likely they'd be ON the dealers lot that ruined them in the first place and silly suggestion as it doesn't happen over night.. Your AV is very applicable..

Edited September 22, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Greg Nixon]

Ask Mobil Should Oil Levels be Checked When the Engine is Hot or Cold?

Ask Your Stickiest Question. . . Or ask us something you’ve always wanted to know about using our products. We’ll sort through all the submissions and present the best questions to our automotive experts. We'll share the questions and their answers here. Question: Should Oil Levels be Checked When the Engine is Hot or Cold? Is there a "best" way to check the oil level? I have always checked the oil level with the engine stone cold. I recently read in an auto enthusiast magazine that oil should be checked when the engine is hot -- and that seems wrong. What is the REAL answer and why? Thanks. -- David Lease, Oakton, VA Answer: We recommend checking the oil level either before turning on the engine, or 5 to 10 minutes after shutting down so you can have all the oil in the oil pan to get an accurate measurement.

Did you wipe the dipstick? It is the transmission oil that should be checked hot not the engine oil. Oil is thrown up high into the engine while it is running and can be captured by everything there including the dipstick.

[Ace of Pop]

Castrol Magnatex have now changed the Bottle thanks to Kwakers. Now Reads............... Contains added CLINGY STUFF.

[pgrahmm]

It's very doubtful it'll do any harm. 9 mm isn't very much especially on a gasoline engine.

Not worth worrying about.

The Toyota manual is very specific about this: anything above the high-level mark is "overfilled". And I beg to differ: 9mm represents roughly a third of the distance on the dipstick between the low-level and the high-level mark, which would imply that the engine has 33% more oil than it should.

1/3 of the measurement between the "low" and "full" mark would not mean the engine is 33% overfilled - it would mean approx 1/4 - 1/3 of a liter.....possibly less depending on the configuration of the dipstick & dipstick tube at the point where it meets the oil.....I am guessing the filter is not inverted so it would not drain back each time the engine is stopped and the pressure released.....

It's also possible there might have been a TSB issued to add more oil for whatever reason - also are they using any type of top up additive???? Maybe on top of the oil? --> probably not - just a thought.....

[Gsxrnz]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

Really how do you know? Do you frequent auto lots looking for such? Have you even been to a bones yard to see what's there? I have, several and besides that not likely they'd be ON the dealers lot that ruined them in the first place and silly suggestion as it doesn't happen over night.. Your AV is very applicable..

Why so hostile Mr. Warpspeed, and why get so personal?

I haven't quoted you, nor have I said that any of your opinions are wrong - in fact I think I went out of my way to show that the opinions of you and others on this thread with regard to old school techniques have merit, albeit less relevant with today's technology in my opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to change your usual debating method on TV of "attack is the best form of defence" and actually debate some issues calmly and responsibly, similar to a grown-up.

As to your reference to my Avatar - it has personal meaning to me in that my Father had a similar medical condition to the character in that particular movie. I trust your avatar has some equally meaningful relevance, or perhaps you just think The Stig is the cool dude that you once aspired to be.

[Ace of Pop]

Oh Dear.

[chiang mai]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

Really how do you know? Do you frequent auto lots looking for such? Have you even been to a bones yard to see what's there? I have, several and besides that not likely they'd be ON the dealers lot that ruined them in the first place and silly suggestion as it doesn't happen over night.. Your AV is very applicable..

Why so hostile Mr. Warpspeed, and why get so personal?

I haven't quoted you, nor have I said that any of your opinions are wrong - in fact I think I went out of my way to show that the opinions of you and others on this thread with regard to old school techniques have merit, albeit less relevant with today's technology in my opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to change your usual debating method on TV of "attack is the best form of defence" and actually debate some issues calmly and responsibly, similar to a grown-up.

As to your reference to my Avatar - it has personal meaning to me in that my Father had a similar medical condition to the character in that particular movie. I trust your avatar has some equally meaningful relevance, or perhaps you just think The Stig is the cool dude that you once aspired to be.

For gawds sake don't question or challenge him on tyres, he goes absolutely nuts, big time. Big sigh.

[JAS21]

transam, on 21 Sept 2014 - 15:55, said:

Plus, every time you start a cold (left) engine it takes a while for the system to pressurise. Try it, put the key in, stand outside the car and start it, you will hear a change in engine noise..

Trans ... interesting. On my 3Ltr V-Cross that happened and I asked about it and they said normal. At 40Kms I changed the 10W-30 non-synthetic that Isuzu supplied and had put in Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Pickup 5W-40. Now when it starts after overnight shutdown you don't hear the note change ... it's much quieter on start-up, you don't get that initial short term diesel rattle.

[transam]

transam, on 21 Sept 2014 - 15:55, said:

Plus, every time you start a cold (left) engine it takes a while for the system to pressurise. Try it, put the key in, stand outside the car and start it, you will hear a change in engine noise..

Trans ... interesting. On my 3Ltr V-Cross that happened and I asked about it and they said normal. At 40Kms I changed the 10W-30 non-synthetic that Isuzu supplied and had put in Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Pickup 5W-40. Now when it starts after overnight shutdown you don't hear the note change ... it's much quieter on start-up, you don't get that initial short term diesel rattle.

The 5W-40 is thinner when cold so gets round quicker on start up, syn is brilliant at leaving a "smear/coating" behind and is so "tough" at doing it's job with just a smear on start up.

[bkkjames]

On my truck they (Nissan) say to turn the key over one notch to supply power and wait 5 seconds before starting - I guess it is to pressurize something?

[pgrahmm]

On my truck they (Nissan) say to turn the key over one notch to supply power and wait 5 seconds before starting - I guess it is to pressurize something?

If it's diesel might be either for the fuel pump to build pressure....or cylinder pre-heater system to fire up - some pre-heat through the air horn - others have glow plugs........

Edited September 23, 2014 by pgrahmm

[wilcopops]

1/3 on dipstick in no way represents 1/3 of the volume........... all this is doing is measuring the LEVEL of the oil not the volume.

[WarpSpeed]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

Really how do you know? Do you frequent auto lots looking for such? Have you even been to a bones yard to see what's there? I have, several and besides that not likely they'd be ON the dealers lot that ruined them in the first place and silly suggestion as it doesn't happen over night.. Your AV is very applicable..

Why so hostile Mr. Warpspeed, and why get so personal?

I haven't quoted you, nor have I said that any of your opinions are wrong - in fact I think I went out of my way to show that the opinions of you and others on this thread with regard to old school techniques have merit, albeit less relevant with today's technology in my opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to change your usual debating method on TV of "attack is the best form of defence" and actually debate some issues calmly and responsibly, similar to a grown-up.

As to your reference to my Avatar - it has personal meaning to me in that my Father had a similar medical condition to the character in that particular movie. I trust your avatar has some equally meaningful relevance, or perhaps you just think The Stig is the cool dude that you once aspired to be.

First off this isn't a debate, my info posted is relevant and accurate and doesn't require your's or anyone else's validation to make it so, if you want to add to it, you're welcome but if you want to take shots at it, then you best duck on the return volley..Nice attempted deflection and misdirection, I'm capable of reading between the lines and your first sentence is pretty obvious who it's addressed to in spite of it "not quoting" anyone in particular..

As for "attack being the best defense" that's nonsense, I've had several posts in this thread as I do in many threads that are just freely offered advice and delivered in a courteous manner if not to the point, but when responses such as yours are disguised or intentionally obscured with an intended, masked agenda behind them and behind, It gets exposed for what it is and that is maturity in not being so naive as not to notice what's being done. When you KNOW something is directed towards you and there's no doubt about it, the advice given by myself and others DOES apply in most cases to today's technology and yesterdays and is applied all the time and still relevant. Just suggesting that it isn't relevant is snobbish and arrogant.

Actually truth be told my perception is that the Stig aspires to be as cool as I am.. It's his privilege to be my AV not the other way around. Nice touch about your father...

This is my new standard response to posts like this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y6YVLXprII

Edited September 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Gosh, I'm surprised every car dealership doesn't have dozens of wrecks littering their yards because they didn't follow the start-up procedures following an oil change that some posters are recommending.

While I agree that many of those procedures did apply to older engines and older oil technologies back in the day, the fact is that technology has moved on and the materials and design of the modern engine has changed. As has the chemical nature of the modern oils and lubricants.

While the methods suggested may reduce wear, it will be insignificant to the overall life of the modern engine. For the same reason that nowadays we don't have to "run-in" a new engine or even one that's been rebuilt. I've rebuilt bike engines and after two laps at 80% throttle, it was good to go at full noise - and the two laps were only to make sure nothing fell off as opposed to nursing the engine.

Just look at how much further a modern engine will travel before needing a rebuild compared to one from the 60's - a factor of three or more.

Really how do you know? Do you frequent auto lots looking for such? Have you even been to a bones yard to see what's there? I have, several and besides that not likely they'd be ON the dealers lot that ruined them in the first place and silly suggestion as it doesn't happen over night.. Your AV is very applicable..

Why so hostile Mr. Warpspeed, and why get so personal?

I haven't quoted you, nor have I said that any of your opinions are wrong - in fact I think I went out of my way to show that the opinions of you and others on this thread with regard to old school techniques have merit, albeit less relevant with today's technology in my opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to change your usual debating method on TV of "attack is the best form of defence" and actually debate some issues calmly and responsibly, similar to a grown-up.

As to your reference to my Avatar - it has personal meaning to me in that my Father had a similar medical condition to the character in that particular movie. I trust your avatar has some equally meaningful relevance, or perhaps you just think The Stig is the cool dude that you once aspired to be.

For gawds sake don't question or challenge him on tyres, he goes absolutely nuts, big time. Big sigh.

You're always welcome not to read..

[Ace of Pop]

Drill a little hole at the top of the sump. Problem solved.

[WarpSpeed]

1/3 on dipstick in no way represents 1/3 of the volume........... all this is doing is measuring the LEVEL of the oil not the volume.

No it doesn't, could represent 1/3rd of a quart though or maybe more..

[Kwasaki]

transam, on 21 Sept 2014 - 15:55, said:

Plus, every time you start a cold (left) engine it takes a while for the system to pressurise. Try it, put the key in, stand outside the car and start it, you will hear a change in engine noise..

Trans ... interesting. On my 3Ltr V-Cross that happened and I asked about it and they said normal. At 40Kms I changed the 10W-30 non-synthetic that Isuzu supplied and had put in Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Pickup 5W-40. Now when it starts after overnight shutdown you don't hear the note change ... it's much quieter on start-up, you don't get that initial short term diesel rattle.

The 5W-40 is thinner when cold so gets round quicker on start up, syn is brilliant at leaving a "smear/coating" behind and is so "tough" at doing it's job with just a smear on start up.

Top quality Syn oils like Mobil are excellent but I was more surprised to note about Isuzu using a 10W-30 non-synthetic.

And it's not smear/coating it's ( clingy stuff ) .

[bazza40]

Drill a hole at the top of the sump? Next time I get a flat tyre, I'll bring out the Band-aids.

[meand]

all changing oil is just taking out a bolt and changing the filter.

I am with you I dont think Thais can do anything correctly. They just arent meticulous or concerned with details at all. I would do it myself for sure. You get the best quality oil and filters this way too.

I gotta say though I used to put a little too much oil in my engine every now and then and I never worried about it. They are probably doing it for the wrong (ie stupid) reasons though.

[JAS21]

Kwasaki, on 23 Sept 2014 - 10:33, said:

transam, on 22 Sept 2014 - 20:31, said:

JAS21, on 22 Sept 2014 - 20:13, said:

transam, on 21 Sept 2014 - 15:55, said:transam, on 21 Sept 2014 - 15:55, said:

Plus, every time you start a cold (left) engine it takes a while for the system to pressurise. Try it, put the key in, stand outside the car and start it, you will hear a change in engine noise..

Trans ... interesting. On my 3Ltr V-Cross that happened and I asked about it and they said normal. At 40Kms I changed the 10W-30 non-synthetic that Isuzu supplied and had put in Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Pickup 5W-40. Now when it starts after overnight shutdown you don't hear the note change ... it's much quieter on start-up, you don't get that initial short term diesel rattle.

The 5W-40 is thinner when cold so gets round quicker on start up, syn is brilliant at leaving a "smear/coating" behind and is so "tough" at doing it's job with just a smear on start up.

Top quality Syn oils like Mobil are excellent but I was more surprised to note about Isuzu using a 10W-30 non-synthetic.

And it's not smear/coating it's ( clingy stuff ) .

It just needs to be CH-4 .... and they normally put BESCO in

[tifino]

1988, youngest bother, first car, first time he filled his (or any car for that matter) petrol.

He apparently did a walkaround and filled all the car's capacities - fuel, water oil etc

Yep! he filled the Engine Oil to the top

Starter Motor didn't like it

Always since lived in hope this is not hereditary...