Engine oil is consistently overfilled by the dealer

[transam]

Some "enginneer" said that pistons rely on crank oil splash to lubricate them, to my knowledge, Cumminns Diesels have had oil pressured cooling/lubricating nozzles fitted since the late 50s, or even before, they squirt oil up into the piston skirt, cooling and lubricating them,

Think that "engineer" said "many" engines rely on...........

PS. I believe we are not talking about heavy goods commercial engines at the mo........

PPS. Yep, led a sheltered life but during that time I never worked on an engine that wasn't bore splash lubricated, that includes the 7.5 ltr jobbies.

[bazza40]

Oil volume should be measured when the engine is cold. Possibly the service shop is adding the correct amount of cold oil according to the service manual, then it expands when hot - most liquids do. There is also a possibility the coefficient of expansion of the oil varies depending on whether it is a mineral oil ( cheap ) or full synthetic (expensive).

Maybe your best approach is to ask the garage to allow you to put the oil in yourself. That way you can check where the oil is on the dipstick relative to the volume used.

[GBK]

Don't sweat it. Oil is cheaper than metal and, as someone previously mentioned, 9mm on the dipstick doesn't actually equate to a great deal of oil.

Do you know where the crank case breather is? If the oil is massively overfilled, it will start puking out of the breather LONG before any of the nightmare scenarios mentioned above. Any spots of oil under the engine bay when you have been parked for an hour, or so?

No? Forget it.

[Spoonman]

Some "enginneer" said that pistons rely on crank oil splash to lubricate them, to my knowledge, Cumminns Diesels have had oil pressured cooling/lubricating nozzles fitted since the late 50s, or even before, they squirt oil up into the piston skirt, cooling and lubricating them,

Think that "engineer" said "many" engines rely on...........

PS. I believe we are not talking about heavy goods commercial engines at the mo........

PPS. Yep, led a sheltered life but during that time I never worked on an engine that wasn't bore splash lubricated, that includes the 7.5 ltr jobbies.

I doubt splash lubrication is used at all these days.

[transam]

Some "enginneer" said that pistons rely on crank oil splash to lubricate them, to my knowledge, Cumminns Diesels have had oil pressured cooling/lubricating nozzles fitted since the late 50s, or even before, they squirt oil up into the piston skirt, cooling and lubricating them,

Think that "engineer" said "many" engines rely on...........

PS. I believe we are not talking about heavy goods commercial engines at the mo........

PPS. Yep, led a sheltered life but during that time I never worked on an engine that wasn't bore splash lubricated, that includes the 7.5 ltr jobbies.

I doubt splash lubrication is used at all these days.

You could be right...

[wabothai]

Next time just look when it is done. Easy!

[ClutchClark]

Quotes not working

Edited September 21, 2014 by ClutchClark

[transam]

My Toyota dealer uses sealed 1/4/5 ltr cans. They give me the empties as proof, plus any left overs..

My Shell garage does the same, watch 'em uncork the can and fill.....

[ClutchClark]

Also, when they change the oil and filter they start the engine to fill the filter up and then top up. But a lot of that oil will still be in oil galleries, lifters etc, so if you drive home, leave it for a while, oil will drain back into the sump and perhaps be a tad high on the stick. Soon as you start the engine, after a couple of seconds, that level will drop.

I'd never let them do this, that moment of running the engine dry ads up to a much shorter life span for the engine, not to day but definitely tomorrow down the road, the filter should always be filled with oil first before installing. Another major reason I do my own oil changes.

Except it doesn't work when you have a horizontally mounted filter--the oil spills out.

So many of these new engines have such small filters nowadays, its not like the old ones that had about a quart capacity. But its a good practice when its possible.

[ClutchClark]

My Toyota dealer uses sealed 1/4/5 ltr cans. They give me the empties as proof, plus any left overs..

My Shell garage does the same, watch 'em uncork the can and fill.....

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder if there was a tendency for shops to charge for a premium oil while actually pouring in some cheap grade? Maybe consumers responded by insisting to see what they pay for?

[transam]

Yep, the Vigo filter points near skyward so impossible to prime the thing.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps the issue is where the dealer is sourcing his oil, a US versus Imperial measures perhaps? A difference of the amount suggested by the OP seems to point to that as the cause. Dunno, you're the experts.

[transam]

My Toyota dealer uses sealed 1/4/5 ltr cans. They give me the empties as proof, plus any left overs..

My Shell garage does the same, watch 'em uncork the can and fill.....

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder if there was a tendency for shops to charge for a premium oil while actually pouring in some cheap grade? Maybe consumers responded by insisting to see what they pay for?

Weeeeeell, there is talk here about dodgy oil in old "nice" cans being used.

In fact my Shell guy said in English..."Happy you come here cos you see oil is "new can"

[ClutchClark]

It's not rocket science.If the manual says 5 quarts.Put 5 quarts in it.You might want to go buy the oil you want in it.Go to A shop

Tell the man to change the oil and put the oil you bought in it.Problem solved.

How did that solve the problem if the guy is in the habit of overfilling?

With your advice the engine is now overfilled with the owners oil instead of the shop--thats the only difference.

You better stick with rocket science and leave the mechanic' ing to us simple folk ;-)

[WarpSpeed]

Also, when they change the oil and filter they start the engine to fill the filter up and then top up. But a lot of that oil will still be in oil galleries, lifters etc, so if you drive home, leave it for a while, oil will drain back into the sump and perhaps be a tad high on the stick. Soon as you start the engine, after a couple of seconds, that level will drop.

I'd never let them do this, that moment of running the engine dry ads up to a much shorter life span for the engine, not to day but definitely tomorrow down the road, the filter should always be filled with oil first before installing. Another major reason I do my own oil changes.

Except it doesn't work when you have a horizontally mounted filter--the oil spills out.

So many of these new engines have such small filters nowadays, its not like the old ones that had about a quart capacity. But its a good practice when its possible.

Can and should still saturate the filter and leave a tiny bit in the bottom of he filter and install it quickly, better a bit of oil lost in the install then starting a dry engine..

[WarpSpeed]

Yep, the Vigo filter points near skyward so impossible to prime the thing.

Never "impossible"...

[Ace of Pop]

Dont You 2 Start, your as bad as me and the Boy Racer Kid..

[WarpSpeed]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

[Gsxrnz]

My Toyota dealer uses sealed 1/4/5 ltr cans. They give me the empties as proof, plus any left overs..

My Shell garage does the same, watch 'em uncork the can and fill.....

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder if there was a tendency for shops to charge for a premium oil while actually pouring in some cheap grade? Maybe consumers responded by insisting to see what they pay for?

Giving the empties is standard practice.

Not only that, if you get repairs done that involved replacement parts, they give you the old parts as well.

I had to replace the two half shafts in my diff. I went home with two old half shafts, bags of seals and bearings, and boxes of brake shoes that had been replaced. At my Toyota dealer, they even make you go through the invoice to make sure you have received the old parts that they have charged you for.

[Spoonman]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

The 3.2 Ranger, if the oil has been drained for 10 minutes or more the lubrication system will not self prime.

Hit that key and the bearings are toast... Ford released a service bulletin about this issue.

[transam]

Plus, every time you start a cold (left) engine it takes a while for the system to pressurise. Try it, put the key in, stand outside the car and start it, you will hear a change in engine noise..

[ClutchClark]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

Yep, this is certainly the thing to do with a cold engine. I used to live in a cold climate and so each morning I would disconnect the coil and hand turn the engine to get the oil flowing and only then would I get into the car and start it.

My neighbors used to think I was a German loony-toon but I had the last laugh when their engines needed to be rebuilt after only 200K miles of service.

Cheers ;-)

Edited September 21, 2014 by ClutchClark

[BSJ]

Warpy made the point that it matters about starting a dry engine and it does if it's new engine or a re-build, but and oil change! Cum on, there is a film of oil coating everything inside the engine from the old oil and it only takes seconds for the new oil to get around.

Hand cranking, cranking with the coil lead removed.....phooey!

[bazza40]

Sorry ClutchClark, you are talking random noise in a statistical sense. Getting 220K out of an engine in comparison with the 200K for your not-so-fussy neighbours could be pure chance, unless you have a statistically significant sample of your engines vs theirs.

If you were to say you get 300K from an engine vs 200K for others, then that would have a lot more meaning.

[transam]

Warpy made the point that it matters about starting a dry engine and it does if it's new engine or a re-build, but and oil change! Cum on, there is a film of oil coating everything inside the engine from the old oil and it only takes seconds for the new oil to get around.

Hand cranking, cranking with the coil lead removed.....phooey!

When I built an engine dry, distributer was removed, I make a tool to go in the dizzy hole to engage the oil pump, a heavy duty power drill was attached to the tool and spinning would commence until oil pressure was acheived and a bit beyond. Dizzy back in and start the thing....

Using this technique used no force on any bearings..

[JacChang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hello! Hello! SIMPLE AS SH##T, My Isuzu dealer, changes the oil plus any other service(filter) refills with oil then after a brief warm up run + a rest inserts a graduated tube into the dipstick tube and then electrically pumps any excess oil out of the engine. Result always correct oil level. Wake up all you theorists and find a good service centre.

a service center that regularly overfills an engine and has to pump it out is "good" to you? I have always changed my own oil (even in brand new cars) and can tell you that I have never had to pump out any excess. I also fill my filter before installing.

I've always wanted to do that too, but never had the guts to. I mean for a new car still under warranty. So right off from a brand new car, you always do your own maintenance and forget about the warranty?

Because I am one of the few guys too, who like to work on my own cars so I am 100% sure it is how I want it to be. Everytime I go into the dealer to let some mechanic work on my car, I am always uneasy, knowing that yes... my car is getting maintained, but the mechanic is causing other harm to it in some way, either through spills, over torqueing, or wrong parts/oils.

So I would like to hear your story.

And for some reason, I believe if my car never goes to the dealer, it could be used longer. Just have a feeling they purposely "slowly damage" my car, so I can take it in for repairs in the future when warranty runs out.

[Spoonman]

Warpy made the point that it matters about starting a dry engine and it does if it's new engine or a re-build, but and oil change! Cum on, there is a film of oil coating everything inside the engine from the old oil and it only takes seconds for the new oil to get around.

Hand cranking, cranking with the coil lead removed.....phooey!

When I built an engine dry, distributer was removed, I make a tool to go in the dizzy hole to engage the oil pump, a heavy duty power drill was attached to the tool and spinning would commence until oil pressure was acheived and a bit beyond. Dizzy back in and start the thing....

Using this technique used no force on any bearings..

Seriously mate. your wisdom and techniques correlate to the modern engine by 0%.

Why even comment on something that you clearly have no clue about ?

[WarpSpeed]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

The 3.2 Ranger, if the oil has been drained for 10 minutes or more the lubrication system will not self prime.

Hit that key and the bearings are toast... Ford released a service bulletin about this issue.

Exactly, which is why I say disconnect the coil and crank it so it doesn't start dry and primes the pump first, few people know it only takes seconds of dry run to toast the crank and rod bearings.. Especially with today's closer tolerances.

[WarpSpeed]

Warpy made the point that it matters about starting a dry engine and it does if it's new engine or a re-build, but and oil change! Cum on, there is a film of oil coating everything inside the engine from the old oil and it only takes seconds for the new oil to get around.

Hand cranking, cranking with the coil lead removed.....phooey!

Not phooey, proper dry start procedure and nothing less then precautionary, too much potential expense for one to be so lazy as not to follow this simple step, especially when it's the mechanic doing the job and no inconvenience to you, you're paying THEM after all, especially necessary with turbos too. The amount of oil left on the bearings goes away almost instantly once started if it is not constantly replenished, when assembling a new engine for example, you use a much heavier lubricant then oil (assembly lube), but if it runs for a few seconds that is gone and it ruins the bearings, but steady on mate anyway..

It is necessary to prime the oil pump on a rebuild or new engine many times and possible to do that with a drill as has been suggested, but that is only necessary with completely dry pumps as they have a bit of difficulty producing a good enough vacuum when dry and not turning at enough rpm's to prime them effectively, which is also why I pour some oil through the pump backwards through the oil return chamber during reassembly once the pan is on, but a pump that has some oil in it previously can pick up prime much quicker. Most engines idle at 900Rpms, so in 30 seconds it's rotated 450 times already and that's not very long in terms of priming but additionally when it first starts it always starts at a higher rpm because the ECU has adjusted the fuel mixture to make it start easier so it has probably exceeded that by several hundred additional rpms in that few seconds. BTW it's also the cam/cams that suffers the most since it/they turn much quicker and the oil has further to travel to the top end.

Edited September 21, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Spoonman]

That's the topic, not starting a dry engine after an oil change.. I guess I know how to avoid it and always will, better a little oil mess then a dry engine start, even if that's the case and you can't put in oil which one can always do, they should disconnect the coil and turn it over without starting it.

The 3.2 Ranger, if the oil has been drained for 10 minutes or more the lubrication system will not self prime.

Hit that key and the bearings are toast... Ford released a service bulletin about this issue.

Exactly, which is why I say disconnect the coil and crank it so it doesn't start dry and primes the pump first, few people know it only takes seconds of dry run to toast the crank and rod bearings.. Especially with today's closer tolerances.

You should tell Ford how to disconnect the coil on the 3.2 diesel engine so as to avoid the known issue.