New evidence found in tourists’ murder case

[blu3]

Re: Migrant workers

If anyone reads the Skynews article about the new CCTV footage, it is interesting to note that:

DNA on a cigarette butt had earlier been matched to semen found on Miss Witheridge, and officers say the cigarette was smoked by more than one person.

The cigarettes found yards from the bodies have been identified as a little-known brand apparently favoured by migrant workers in the region.

I sincerely hope they find those responsible for this horrific crime as soon as possible.

Little has been discussed in the threads thus far as to the people they were with that night.

As I undertand it, the pair were not drinking alone. These CCTV videos further illustrate they were with other people. So what of their stories?

So far I have read very little (if anything) from the press from the friends they were with. Why?

Whilst there's every chance this might have been impulsive, there's also a chance it was a follow-up to something that proceeded earlier in the night.

If the British media and other Western outlets are on the scene speaking with the locals then surely this is the kind of information they should be going after in speaking to the other foreigners that knew (of) them.

[ebean001]

give the police a break. they are doing their best - for sure. remember, it was not too long ago that all the nations could not find a huge airplane. Normally in a case like this the police have a good idea who did it from the get go. however, it is not always that way. they will get closure. it just takes time.

[ableguy]

"It is for this reason that DNA samples in the case of the murder of the two Britons will be sent to the FBI forensic investigators because they have the necessary experience and are better equipped and possess an extensive database in order to decode the samples."

Talking about loss of face and admitting incompetence. This is a major breakthrough in the chase of the killer(s).

Agreed. Do they mean the US FBI?

I said near the beginning that I wished they'd ask the Brits to rush in some of their best people to help.

Whatever, this would bring transparency to an investigation that has some people wondering, and the Thais aren't competent to handle this.

I was not aware the Brits had an FBI, duh.

[zaZa9]

It was a horrible crime and given the environment of Koh Tao, I believe the police are doing as good a job as we can reasonably expect. Do you think some back water US hick town of comparable development and population density would do any better??

Well yes I do.

For starters , the days of the towns Sheriff deciding that the crime could only be carried out by folks of a certain 'colour' are long gone.

I also think the deputies in this theoretical hick town would know that the Sheriff would have their guts for garters if they told him they had looked at ALL the available CCTV footage in their town , and 5 days after the murder visiting media had discovered video showing the victim and 'friends' in the vicinity. Not to mention even more footage of a possible suspect running around in pants that would logically ( particularly if you view the size of the victim ) be way too big for him.

Any 'deputy' demonstrating such incompetence would KNOW they would be sacked immediately.

That new CCTV is now being discovered beggars belief!

[harrycallahan]

For once we're thankful of Burmese migrant worker's neglected hygiene.

[ableguy]

give the police a break. they are doing their best - for sure. remember, it was not too long ago that all the nations could not find a huge airplane. Normally in a case like this the police have a good idea who did it from the get go. however, it is not always that way. they will get closure. it just takes time.

Agree most rapists are known to the victim, a crime like this committed on impulse can only rely on diligent police work. ( that of course is a whole new ball game )

[axact]

Meanwhile forensic police from Bangkok joined local forensic police in Surat Thani to collect DNA samples from more than 20 Myanmar workers both male and female rounded up from the vicinity of the crime scene and also their finger prints.

Why would anyone waste time and money taking DNA samples from any women in a murder rape case ?

As for the trousers being on the killer running off..... well................

Coz a woman can be part of the murder too.

Oh come on stop picking at straws its almost unheard of for women to be involved in a double murder rape.

You ever heard of process of elimination ? well usually you discount the least likely and look at the most likely first and try to narrow that down..... ie male you dont waste your time or funds with females until much later.

You only go and spend time on the least likely much later... id say its highly likely with at least 2 DNA its male and therefore much better to DNA all males, especially those not yet done with local knowledge, ie Thai local males...

Almost unheard of.... Fred West springs to mind, his wife played a big part in his murders. Wasnt it the case with Bonnie & Clyde and Myra Hindley ?

[timewilltell]

Good they have asked the help of a more advanced nation so far as DNA testing goes. Why didn't they ask earlier? It is a loss of face to the Thais but to non-Thais there is no loss of face at all - quite the opposite in fact for being smart and sharing the most excellent resources to solve a crime.

The Thai police have exposed themselves for what they are - just buffoons. Thailand would be very well served getting some better quality, foreign trained intelligent police commanders and spend some time and money training the bods they already have with half a brain. As for the rest of the numpties who cannot be trained - dismiss them or move them to an inactive post of cell duty or prison guard or something. Build a few more prisons as well to accommodate them in readiness for the increase in criminals convicted as a result of the improved and efficient police force.

On another matter I see some artist who painted pictures for a popular book died yesterday aged 79. He seemed to have lived a good life to a fine age and immediate condolences forthcoming. In contrast to the 5 days it took to squeeze condolences for Hannah and David who have had their lives stolen from them before they had a chance to live them. Some contrast huh?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[affen02]

I think that actually it is not thai versus white. First of all a white foreign murder victim gets a lot more press, second the economy, the tourist sector will be hit hard so the police will be under immense pressure from the top to solve this, this kind of pressure is not good as we have already seen. Police splashing the pic of the young brit on all the worlds newspapers because he had some weeks old cut on his hand. I really feel for the families of the murder victims as more and more desperate rumours will appear as days passes without result.

[Strangebrew]

Ok I'm an old man but even with the blurred picture that dude is Thai. But the blue pants found will have skin and hair samples let the FBI process those pants. Hell request they bring a blood hound it can track that sucker.

[Oziex1]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

I share the disappointment of many here that the authorities are sadly out of their depth when it comes to launching an effective and professional investigation. The authorities are compromised at so many levels from poor training to cultural restraints in the ability to look at the potential of those with superior status being involved.

If the PM can come out with backward statements on womens dress being a likely cause of her murder, what outlook does a copper in a regional area have?

Reports that the FBI may be called in, what does this mean, it may mean they need help or just need someone other than a Thai to point the finger at the culprits.

Of course we feel more when people of our country or race is hurt or killed, every body expects the world to stop when a murder is committed be it the family an Issan farm worker or the family of a tourist.

Can I say this, a recent report of an Asian man as a suspect. Come on you can say it, starts with T and rhymes with eye.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Do you think some back water US hick town of comparable development and population density would do any better??

555 Absolutely. In a case of this magnitude they would immediately call their state's crime lab for which the Thais couldn't carry water.

Almost simultaneously they would call the FBI which has some amazing abilities especially with DNA.

But here we have a Thai hick town that totally failed to call for the best help it could get, probably due to face.

You're talking about two entirely different cultures which would have totally different approaches.

[ToddinChonburi]

I just read an article saying they are bringing in the FBI because they have more sophistacated DNA testing.

The killer is long gone, This is an incredible mess the Thai DNA testing has no way of knowing who the killer is. I geuss they figured he would just walk forward and confess.

Girls should not wear Bikinis and next they will say they commited suicide.

[sweatalot]

Gee Sherlock you should rush to the scene and offer your expert advice and opinions, I'm almost certain the RTP would welcome them as much as the rest of us.

" You ever heard of process of elimination ? well usually you discount the least likely and look at the most likely first and try to narrow that down..... ie male you dont waste your time or funds with females until much later."

They did exactly this: eliminating all Thai first (irony off)

[rynardve]

Good luck with the FBI, that might have been an idea if it had been American citizens or if they cared about what happens outside of American soil.

[inzman]

Still won't look at a thai as a suspect. Now they are pointing fingers at more migrant workers. Killer put on the wrong pants? Are they utterly nuts! This won't be solved, TIT

[jpeg]

From having trawled through the tomes on this awful case I've come to the conclusion it was a couple of migrant workers having a smoke (sharing a cigarette? Surely the local Thais can afford a pack of their own), together with the murder weapon, again, doubt if there are any Thai labourers on the island and it would have taken someone used to a hoe and capable of using it with the amount of force needed.

Having said that, the ineptitude of the police has again been breathtaking. But there again, what else could you expect from a police force who's primary job is to extract as much money as they can, particularly in tourist areas. They didn't lock the island down as soon as the victims were found and the murderers have almost certainly escaped by now. And no, I am not a Thai apologist, I am a pragmatist.

[kurtgruen]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Yes, my thought's exactly. Very sad indeed.

The other thing is, that murders rarely happen against white foreigners, in Thailand, exactly for this reason. I think, because most people know, that the hunt for the murderers will not stop.

So yes, for the most part, Thailand is very safe for foreign tourists, but I would not say the same for Thai people. Thai people get killed or raped all the time. Thing is, it does not make the foreign news, unless the victims are white. (at least in most cases it doesn't)

Don't forget. Thai parents are still worried about their children being kidnapped and sold into slavery. They are also worried about their teenage daughters travelling alone and usually make sure a relative is with them, when they go on the bus or train.

Don't forget, this is still a Country, where some rich kid can run over a policeman and get away with it, doing little or no time in jail.

I am hoping, that along with all these changes in Government, Thailand will turn into a safer place for all.

Again, my condolances to the families of the victims.

[Ducking and]

If their guess is correct and they have the shorts of the murderer it should be easy to nail the man.

Of course, their guess could very easily be wrong.

The only thing to be said in favour of their guess is that it's an Asian man and of course a Thai could not have committed a crime like this.

[meatboy]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa?

In most cases it's not negativity towards Thais, but Thai incompetence, not really the same thing.

I'm really not sure when the Thais called in the FBI after finding the DNA but it should have been immediately. As I understand it the island is no longer locked down so the killer/s have almost certainly fled, and that assuming they didn't leave on a long tail boat during the lock down.

SDM

no negativity towards thais but the police expected them that fled to leave a forwarding address.

[abitmiffed]

They seem hell bent on pinning this on the burmese, after all if it is thais who did this that once so beautful island will sink under its own bs. And the land of smirks is finished.

[transam]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

If two Thais were killed in this manner in England the killer(s) would now be behind bars......

[wow64]

News just in it was a Burmese Seaman. The Officer in charge went to the toilet to get a seamen sample without the suspect but now the officer is a suspect.

DNA and seaman or seawomen has baffled them.

Sent from my c64

[glasswort]

The head of the Royal Thai Police Office of the Forensic Science Pol Lt-Gen Kamrop Panyakaew said that the database and equipment currently available in the country has no capability to differentiate between different races or ethnicity nor is it capable of identifying skin complexion or the age of DNA samples taken from an individual.

This statement sums it all up. Outdated equipment probably being used by incompetent people and the police should have sought specialist assistance on day 1. Unfortunately this was never going to happen because of this loss of face nonsense (remember the Tsunami) prevalent not only in Thailand but all over SE Asia. Almost a week wasted and now the police are intent on finding someone wearing what are now alleged to be the victim's pants. Incredible.

[Just1Voice]

Good luck with the FBI, that might have been an idea if it had been American citizens or if they cared about what happens outside of American soil.

Not very informed are you? There are many countries who request help from both the US FBI, and the British Scotland Yard due to the advanced labs and highly trained investigators they use.

[DoDoey]

Meanwhile forensic police from Bangkok joined local forensic police in Surat Thani to collect DNA samples from more than 20 Myanmar workers both male and female rounded up from the vicinity of the crime scene and also their finger prints.

Why would anyone waste time and money taking DNA samples from any women in a murder rape case ?

As for the trousers being on the killer running off..... well................

Because lipstick was found on one of the cigarette butts....keep up.

[KarenBravo]

And of course, after all that happens during this investigation, there will be no police, or government enquiry to determine the mistakes, hold people accountable with the ultimate aim of avoiding those same mistakes in the future.

[Alwyn]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

A simple answer to your question is because these particular murders and possibly rape has attracted international attention partly because of the nature of the crimes and partly due to the PM's inept handling of it all, accusing the victim of "asking for it" because she wasn't ugly etc.

[Globeman]

20 myanmar workers rounded up,and they [bib] are looking for an asian man seen in the area.

this is 5days after the murders and they havnt got a clue.

what nationality is there on this island?

Aside from farangs, there are two. And one of them is innocent by birthright.

[mcfester]

Skynews has a news story on CCTV footage taken in front of an ATM at 0127 showing David walking along in short pants and shaking hands with an Asian man wearing a shirt with 9 on the back and dark long pants. There is further CCTV footage at 0156 taken in front of a roti cart. They say they've handed the footage over to Thai police.

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

How come a news team from the UK managed to get hold of this footage and the police didn't?

Probably because the news team searched the surrounding area whilst the police only searched the immediate area.

What are the timestamps on the cctv of the suspect wearing the victims shorts?