New evidence found in tourists’ murder case

[tomyumchai]

i stopped going to those 'full moon party' type islands around 2006 because i could see that the local men there had serious attitude problems towards foreign males and an even more serious attitude towards attractive girls. i could see you could get into a problem there very easily and there would be no chance of help.

....btw, have they rounded up ANY young thai males that worked in the bar or hung around that area where girls in bikinis partied? including the big bosses sons and relatives.....

[SunsetT]

Personally think the BIB will try to pin this on a Myanmar worker to save face at this stage.

Thankfully, bringing in the FBI should prevent this from happening.

[SunsetT]

i stopped going to those 'full moon party' type islands around 2006 because i could see that the local men there had serious attitude problems towards foreign males and an even more serious attitude towards attractive girls. i could see you could get into a problem there very easily and there would be no chance of help.

....btw, have they rounded up ANY young thai males that worked in the bar or hung around that area where girls in bikinis partied? including the big bosses sons and relatives.....

.............And any young Koh Tao males who have been conspicuous by their absence since the murder.

[SPB65]

All tourists should just get up and leave Koh Tao. Let all their businesses take a serious hit then you'll see some progress. Hit them where it hurts most.

[SunsetT]

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Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa?? alt=bah.gif>

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Agree with the negativity comments.

But there are very good reasons why this case merits more attention than the regular murder of a couple of Somchais in a field over some drug deal. I'm sure you can come up with them if you think about it. The squaddie who would be emperor got it very quickly alt=thumbsup.gif>

Agreed with the squaddie remark.

However, when people are told to rush to get results, in more cases than not, more mistakes are made.

If as in this case, that is even possible.

Remember when there was an explosion on a domestic flight Mr T was due to take ?

He started screaming ' assassination attempt ' and set a deadline, 14 days i think, for a result. Four different committees were set up and co-ordination was anyone's guess. Seems nothing has been learned given the island tragedy and everyone having their say.

It all went quiet when the aircraft company's engineers proved the explosion was caused by a mechanic working on the air-con cut corners and ignored the manual.

What did come out of that incident was the fact that so many Thai passengers were travelling on false names so thereafter I/D was needed to book and use domestic flights.

Just recently noticed that Thai ID is now not required when booking with airasia.com, but probably needed when boarding.

[IAMHERE]

If the perp left his pants at the crime scene, then I'll trust the DNA evidence. Sperm doesn't count for much at this point, she was on vacation.

[BMF1960]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Perhaps I missed something, but who said "white victims are considered more valuable"? "All stops need to be pulled out" to solve any violent crime.

[BMF1960]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Perhaps I missed something, but who said "white victims are considered more valuable"? "All stops need to be pulled out" to solve any violent crime.

[SunsetT]

...but the trouser evidence doesn't prove rape or murder, only petty theft...

And how do you think this petty theft happened? Are you suggesting that the thief was walking by a murder scene, saw the trouser lying on the ground, took off his trousers, and then put on the trousers that he intended to steal - before running away? He was, after all, WEARING the stolen trousers, not carrying them. On the other hand, I suppose the trouser thief might have gone to the beach naked and grabbed the trousers when he noticed that their owner was preoccupied.

To me, a more likely scenario was that he took off his trousers to rape somebody and when he was finished, in a panic, he just grabbed the first pair of trousers that he found, thinking they were his.

Pants = UK underpants = NOT US trousers

[BMF1960]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Perhaps I missed something, but who said "white victims are considered more valuable"? "All stops need to be pulled out" to solve any violent crime.

[SunsetT]

It seems to me that this case is a microcosm of how Thailand operates or governs itself in general. It's like a window into its soul has been blown open for all to peer into. A bit dramatic perhaps but I fear not too far from the truth. It's hard to imagine another country where such a shambolic state of affairs could occur. It probably happens all the time with domestic murders but with the world watching all this it's a very sad state of affairs for Thailand. The only way they can redeem themselves in the eyes of the world is to find and bring to justice the real killers, whoever they are and however well connected (allegedly) they may be.

Thailand. It starts with the people.

No, It starts with the 'Education' or rather lack of it.

[LanceGringo]

If the perp left his pants at the crime scene, then I'll trust the DNA evidence. Sperm doesn't count for much at this point, she was on vacation.

Meaning?

[SunsetT]

All tourists should just get up and leave Koh Tao. Let all their businesses take a serious hit then you'll see some progress. Hit them where it hurts most.

........And get The Daily Mail to advocate a British tourist boycott of Koh Tao.

[ttthailand]

i stopped going to those 'full moon party' type islands around 2006 because i could see that the local men there had serious attitude problems towards foreign males and an even more serious attitude towards attractive girls. i could see you could get into a problem there very easily and there would be no chance of help.

....btw, have they rounded up ANY young thai males that worked in the bar or hung around that area where girls in bikinis partied? including the big bosses sons and relatives.....

I read somewhere here in TV that there was a problem with some Thai guy earlier in the evening. If true, was this guy found and his DNA checked ? I think the post said he was a local who was trying to chat up the young lady.

Ignoring civil rights, if they went to every business and got a list of names of employees and a list of names of those who are not currently on the island but were that night they could perhaps find their murderer. If the list of those off the island does not work then check everyone between the ages of 16 and say perhaps 30 as they would be more apt to be involved and hanging out in a group.

My guess is that it is a local Thai or Thais who hang out at these bars all the time or one of the migrant workers.

Hotels should also have a list of names who have stayed there.

Also, tour groups and van drivers would have name lists.

Anyone with photos or movies taken that night should submit them to the police or FBI( if involved) so they can perhaps see something that might look not right.

My thoughts for what they are worth.

I hope they find who is responsible.... Very sad this kind of stuff happens in Thailand.

RIP ....

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Does the negativity towards anything Thai and anything done by Thais never stop on Thaivisa??

Why is it a loss of face, to ask a better equiped policeforce for help?

Thousands of Thais are murdered every year, but because the victims this time are Brits, we expect the world to stop.

Don't misunderstand me, a very horrible crime, but why are white victims considered more valuable, and all stops need to be pulled to solve this particular case?

Perhaps I missed something, but who said "white victims are considered more valuable"? "All stops need to be pulled out" to solve any violent crime.

I think it has more to do with reporting. Didn't the police at first implicate one of their friends? It makes perfect sense to me that the best friend of the victim flew all the way from the UK with him to murder the guy on some island in Thailand. Right.

Then of course according to the newly democratically elected (97% of the vote I read somewhere) dictator blamed the girl for wearing a bikinni and being pretty? I am surprised it wasn't 100% since didn't he appoint all those who "elected him? So here is my suggestion to him. Ban all pretty girls (ugly ones exempted) from wearing a bikinni with an automatic imprisonment of one week and/or fine of 1000000 baht and I'll bet that does wonders for the tourism season. Problem solved. I wonder if he has the coconuts to back up what he claims was the problem.

And of course Thais don't do that kind of stuff (excluding the cab driver who hacked to death the German guy).

[apalink_thailand]

All tourists should just get up and leave Koh Tao. Let all their businesses take a serious hit then you'll see some progress. Hit them where it hurts most.

Good idea. Leave it to the scuba divers and not "The Beach" crowd ;-)

[boomerangutang]

Saying the killer ran off with the wrong pair of pants, ones of the victim is bizarre in itself. If you are saying the killer ran off with the girls shorts on by mistake ..., well I am gobsmacked! Looks like the quotes got messed up as my response was to another response - can't delete this one so ignore. Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

It appears as though there was a dirty (perhaps bloodied) pair of pants left at the scene. It would make sense for the murderer to leave soiled pants at the scene and take the victim's shorts. I hope they find the criminal(s) and, if found guilty in a fair trail, give them the full penalty, regardless of whether they're from a well-connected family. As far as that goes, ask Chaleum. He always seems to know who the culprits are for any given crime, but he rarely reveals more than the first letter of their family name.

[jamiesilver]

well every day it swings from being a farang or being a burmese!

not once has it ever been noted that it could be a Thai... only that it couldnt...

[Malthus101]

To be fair, it's a small island, people come and go all the time, of course it's a difficult investigation - eye witnesses and friends of the murderer are the most likely way they're gonna find the murderer.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

[transam]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

Rubbish............Gawd...........

[Nemesis7]

Hope no innocent person gets charged just because the Police couldnt solve the case. He could be very well a Thai national. Not necessarily all the migrant workers here are rapist.

[somchaismith]

Quick check the pockets he may have left his wallet in there.

[sgtsabai]

If, as indicated in at least one post, the fbi has been uninvited I would be very suspicious. fbi aren't necessarily the good guys all the time, but I don't think they would get mixed up in something shady and already internationally well known that would bring more attention to them from the wrong direction. They only like good publicity.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

Rubbish............Gawd...........

Maybe to you, but then again why do you count? Aaaw that's right you are an Advanced Member... Really? I hope I never become so Advanced that when someone says anything that is meant as thoughtful or caring, that I would have the audacity to call it rubbish. I love you old dinosaurs and your prehistoric ways.

[fstarbkk]

Some people, including myself, are wondering why on a small island that has a small population, with access by ferry or rent a boats that can be controlled the police are still floundering about.

Eliminate those under 10 years of age, eliminate those over 60 years of age, get people 11 to 59 to verify where they were at the time of the murder and whoever is in the remainder DNA test.

The pool of suspects should be in the dozens.

When I stayed at Koh Tao, there were hundreds on the island that met your excluded criteria.

Not once you eliminate the ones that have an incontrovertible alibi.

[transam]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

Rubbish............Gawd...........

Maybe to you, but then again why do you count? Aaaw that's right you are an Advanced Member... Really? I hope I never become so Advanced that when someone says anything that is meant as thoughtful or caring, that I would have the audacity to call it rubbish. I love you old dinosaurs and your prehistoric ways.

Sorry chap, but you are saying I/we here must have a whip round to solve this case. I/we must must put cash aside to solve Thai cases. WHAT about the MILLIONS of folk who come to LOS for fun every year..????? HAVE you not thought of them having insurance for eventualities in LOS which there will be............Have you thought of the zillions of baht brought into LOS by holiday folk to pay for services INCLUDING police protection.

NO, you want us perhaps pensioners to solve cases.......Pull your neck in..

[englishoak]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

All too regular sentiment from people who arnt here for years and established. passing through isnt the same as living here full time.

You have a lot to learn about Thailand and its clear you dont know the way things under the surface work here yet, its a typical thing for new comers to think its all rosy and paradise,yet just under the surface its far from it, we all got sucked in by the smiles in the beginning, like at home visitors think its just dandy when they come for a tour... live here for a decade or so and those rose coloured specs get shattered time and time again...reality finally sets in and the excuses and apologising for the endemic flaws and lies that are continuously repeated stop, it is what it is and its got nothing to do with racism just a realisation and the cold hard reality Thailand really is behind the curve and will likely remain so for very real reasons and seriously flawed social problems. It also has no real interest in making the real changes required, they would rather pretend nothing is wrong but rather the fault of anyone but Thai society. This is how the hi class like it to be and want it to stay.. I think your confusing reality and peoples opinion based on experience here with your own lack of experience and rose coloured specs

Dinosaurs as you put it all start out like you with a different impression of the place thats why they stayed, but over time you cant fail to notice Thailand has always been a pretty violent country, very class driven,sexist, racist horribly corrupt... a southern terrorist insurgency thats been going for decades and in general woefully incompetent at so many things, its education standard is abysmal and its police force are corrupt as well as the military which btw have only ever turned its weapons on its own people .. time and time again. Now that dosnt mean we dont like the place for other reasons but its stupid to pretend its not got the very serious problems it has and some are getting bigger not smaller.

btw already asked TV to start up a fund but no reply from the team

[les Dennis]

Damn! That's not David and Hannah on the ct footage? Damn!!! I guess we Farangs look alike. For now on ask for help from any western country when you know already your Forensics is flawed. What would you be doing right now if it were your son or daughter? I don't care what country you are from or who is in power I would be supporting you. Why does the police have to offer 100,000 baht? Thaivisa members should dig their pockets and offer an award to show the families we support them. Lay blame, theorize, take opportunities to country bash and so forth. You say the thai police are pitiful then we must look worse as a foreigner community.

As tragic as it is, other than the poor families of the deceased (God bless you all, my heart bleeds) the only people concerned about this from an image and business view are TAT. Let them put their hands in their pockets.

[Trouble]

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There is absolutely no loss of face for requesting assistance on DNA evidence. Latest generation Illumina sequencing equipment can sequence an entire human genome and extract a lot more information about a suspect than a match/no match testing which is quite common. The US has the most advanced sequencing equipment which takes about 24h to sequence a full human genome and it takes a lot of specialised computing power and knowledge to process that information which the US FBI has more than any other law enforcement agency.

Although I am also guilty of Thai bashing as I drive through the roads in this country I think many on TV take this a bit too far.

Lest you all forget that Thaialnd is a developing country and for any of us that have spent time in Malaysia, Vietnam, Myanmar, etc. Thailand is miles ahead of these countries on innumerable fronts. Every country has its pluses and minuses but the reason most of us are still here is that there are a lot more pluses than minuses.

In my home country I can get hauled off to jail for driving with an expired license, whereas here we can take care of it for 200b. Do you expect to live in a militant nanny state and still enjoy the freedoms of Thailand?

It was a horrible crime and given the environment of Koh Tao, I believe the police are doing as good a job as we can reasonably expect. Do you think some back water US hick town of comparable development and population density would do any better??

Yes, I do. And "hicks" is an insulting word and this post should be deleted. On the other hand I'd put my money on the "hick" cops over the Thai cops anytime. Btw, are you saying the island cops are dumber than the rest of the Thai cops?

I think the point might be that the small town police departments in the US are not equipped any better than the backwater island of Koh Tao to handle the forensic evidence collected. Obviously it takes time to collect and prioritize the evidence for forensic analysis. They certainly do not have equipment on Koh Tao to do this so there is not going to be immediate results in everything instantaneously. The biggest concern is contamination of the crime scene and handling of evidence. Hopefully the local police have done that part of things correctly. As a former Air Force investigator the investigative process takes time and does not happen overnight. Asking for expert forensic analysis from the FBI is a smart move. The criticism by the TV sleuths using CSI programs as providing expertise in forensic science is simply amazing. Let the police do their job. Sure there is room for criticism as there is in any investigation. Investigation is not an exact science so cut them a little slack. I am sure they want the crime solved as much as anyone.