Whats going on with my air condition unit?

[davejonesbkk]

Ive been living in a rented condo for over 4 years now, I think it was maybe 2 yrs old when I moved in so everything is new and in good order. Ive always needed to have the air conditioner units cleaned more often that I thought was needed though (I heard once a year is enough) as pretty much every 4 months or so the unit in the bedroom stops pumping out cool air even on the highest settings. My landlord is excellent though and always sends round the engineers and they give it a good clean, its quite a job but she covers the cost, Ive always been confused about why it would need cleaning so much though.

Just recently it seems to have gotten worse, in the last year or so on occasion its made loud crunching noises and chunks of ice have fallen out, I then get it cleaned and its fine and then it starts happening again a few months later. Now this is happening more regularly, I just had it cleaned in August and then this started again the other night with it making loud noises, ice falling out and also it stops blowing out cool air, all of this disrupts my sleep a lot, last 2 nights Ive had to resort to switching on the air in the other room full blast and then leave the bedroom door open to cool the bedroom down as the unit in the bedroom is causing so many problems.

So again had the engineer round but when I switch it on to show him its fine and he cant see any problems. I think Ive figured it out though, Im guessing something is getting blocked and the cold air is condensing, turning into ice which then blocks the cool air from coming out and then falls from the machine as well as creating the crunching noise. The problem is this only happens after 5-6 hrs of use so I havent been able to show this to the engineer yet.

Any tips or solutions here?

[wpcoe]

ISTR discussion of this before, and the ice somehow relates to low coolant. Are they recharging your coolant (i.e. "topping it up") each time they clean? If so, maybe there's a leak that can be fixed.

(Dr. Naam, feel free to blast me if I'm waaay off base!)

[KittenKong]

When one of my aircon units lost gas pressure back in Europe due to a leak it stopped producing cool air but there certainly wasnt any ice forming. They fixed the leak (it was a split nut) and pumped it up and it worked fine again for years.

As mentioned, it would be helpful to know whether the 4-monthly "clean" also involved regular gas top-ups (which should rarely be needed).

If this ice formation business is in the indoor unit as seems to be the case then it sounds like the tube for draining condensation may be getting bunged up.

[trogers]

While the ac unit gets a yearly cleaning, you would have to wash and rinse the removable filters once a month, or more often depending on dust conditions.

Anyone smoking indoor?

[ToddinChonburi]

I clean my ac every 2 months , just pull the filters out and wash them .

Does your inside unit sit on the wall that the sun hits ?

I had the Tech out and he said they mounted to close to the ceiling so my ac read the darn wall temp when the sun is hitting it.

I have it set at 30 on sunny days and I have to shut off manually or it turns into a freezer in condo.

[ToddinChonburi]

I did a little reading and you need to make sure that the water is draining properly from the indoor unit, if the drainage hose is blocked the condensation from the coolant fins will build up and freeze . also if you let the filters get to dirty that will block the proper air flow and the same thing will happen.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

[judgedredd1]

I clean my ac every 2 months , just pull the filters out and wash them .

Does your inside unit sit on the wall that the sun hits ?

I had the Tech out and he said they mounted to close to the ceiling so my ac read the darn wall temp when the sun is hitting it.

I have it set at 30 on sunny days and I have to shut off manually or it turns into a freezer in condo.Maitenance

Maintenance is should be every 6 months,the unit should never need topping up with gas,if it does its got a leak and will need repairing.It sounds to me that your unit is not cutting out at the set temp,when this happens ice will start forming on the evaporator until it gets blocked this will stop air flow and room temp will go up.Try leaving it on until the ice starts coming out then call the engineer so he can see whats happening.I might be wrong but i hope this helps.

[trogers]

I have mentioned indoor smoking. Reason is, surfaces of cooling fins get tarred up and trapped dust which cannot be removed by normal washing with a water jet.

[DiDiChok]

Sounds to me as though the condensate drain is blocked. This is a simple small pipe that runs from the indoor unit to somewhere outside the room. When warm air cools, water precipitates out of the air and has to go somewhere. When the pipe is blocked, it usually causes water to build up in the unit which then either drips out or freezes inside the indoor unit so building up blocks of ice.

Bugs either get stuck inside the pipe when they come to drink the water or else dirt in the water gradually builds up in the pipe and gradually silts it up.

Either pour water down the pipe or blow air through it. Check that the pipe runs downhill along its length to the outside drain. Sometimes the Thai forget that water does not run uphill !

[davejonesbkk]

Im pretty sure that on previous occasions there was mention of the 'freont' being down due to a leak or something and it had been topped up, Ive had the engineers out a lot and the last time only a month ago (same guys each time) so Im sure they are checking for that each time.

No one is smoking in the room.

Its a ceiling mounted unit with everything else outside on the balcony, I really know nothing about how it works or what is draining where but everytime I have the guys out to clean it etc they do seem to do a thorough job. I will take a closer look at it tomorrow though and do some of my own reading on it.

I have noticed now that when I turn it on right when I go to sleep at approx midnight the problems start with the air getting warm and the noises about 4-5ish each time, its fine up until then though with the temp on around 22.

My landlord is calling the manufactures Amena on Monday to see if they can shed any light on thsi.

[dBrown]

Have you tried to set the temperature to a more normal setting like 25 degree ?

Edited September 21, 2014 by dBrown

[meand]

just have the landlord fix it. not much else to think about

[KittenKong]

Im pretty sure that on previous occasions there was mention of the 'freont' being down due to a leak or something and it had been topped up, Ive had the engineers out a lot and the last time only a month ago (same guys each time) so Im sure they are checking for that each time.

If the gas pressure is repeatedly low then there is a leak that needs fixing. It is not enough just to pump it up.

Its a ceiling mounted unit with everything else outside on the balcony, I really know nothing about how it works or what is draining where but everytime I have the guys out to clean it etc they do seem to do a thorough job.

Look for a small plastic pipe leading outside, possibly into a drain. http://goo.gl/T3Hjo4

If you cant see water dripping out of it when your aircon is running then it's probably clogged and the water will be backing up into the indoor unit, where it may freeze if the unit is set at a very low temperature as yours appears to be (you mention 22 degrees).

[ozziepete]

If the drain was blocked then it would spit out water or drip. If the unit is icing up it is due to A. A lack of airflow or B. The unit not shutting the compressor of when it has reached the desired temp. I would go more with B. If it is not shutting the compressor of then it is likely the temp sensor part of the head unit. Best thing to do is ask the owner to get the control board of the head unit changed. As it would be the cheapest and easiest thing to do as part of the circuit could have gone.

[colin2]

Put it in the trash and get a new one.

[ToddinChonburi]

as long as the land lord is willing to keep having someone come out then what the heck, let them keep fixing it. They will get it right sooner or later. Good luck.

[KittenKong]

as long as the land lord is willing to keep having someone come out then what the heck, let them keep fixing it. They will get it right sooner or later. Good luck.

If it was my unit I would be concerned about my electricity bill. I bet the OP is using a lot more electricity than is necessary, and the cost of this probably far exceeds the cost of a clean every month.

[tamsloon]

I agree with a lot of the above comments , I would also try raising the temp to 23* and see if this has any effect

[tolsti]

22 is quite a low setting for an aircon to achieve here. It will depend on your insulation and window exposure to the sun but you are better off trying to acclimatise more and add an extra fan as well. Many fans have what they call a natural setting which sends waves of air over you as opposed to just a constant blast.

Lose weight and sleep on a towel on your of your bottom sheet. The towel wickers away sweat and protects your bedding. Conversely, if it is cold, a towel will provide an extra layer of insulation.

Pure cotton bedding will also be far cooler than nylon fused sheets.

[Pib]

Your problem sounds like low freon due to a small freon leak...probably takes weeks to months to leak off the freon to a point it will cause the air con to freeze up. Low freon will cause the unit to freeze up until the freon gets too low and then no cooling will occur. Every air con has a freon charge level range where it will work properly...too much freon is bad (overpressure can damage/rupture the compressor and lines) and not enough freon is bad (underpressure, constant compressor running, and icing). Low freon (at just the right low freon level) will cause the freon temperature to get so cold in turn making the cooling fins so cold it actually freezes the water vapor/humidity in the air as it blows through the cooling fins...once the fins ice up no to low airflow occurs....then some of the ice will start to melt which causes the water leakage. Have had this problem several times over my lifetime with home central air cons and auto air cons.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Pib

[wpcoe]

Aha, vindication at last. Thanks, Pib. I *thought* I remembered leaking refrigerant being a potential cause of air con icing.

[Pib]

Aha, vindication at last. Thanks, Pib. I *thought* I remembered leaking refrigerant being a potential cause of air con icing.

And a s....l....o....w leak many times can be very hard to detect due to location of the leak even with the most sensitive freon lead detection devices. Each and every time I've had an A/C icing problem over my lifetime it has been due to a low freon charge and of course the icing would always occur at the worst time like going into a hot summer weekend when most A/C repair shops are closed. I've have slow leak problems on two central home A/Cs in my lifetime....icing each time. And when I started having icing problems on one of my vehicles I bought a freon leak detector, vacuum pump, pressure guages, etc., off Ebay so I could service my own vehicle A/C--saved me a bunch of money of the years. A person can top off there freon charge to get the A/C working again, but with the small leak still occurring it will just be a matter of time...days...weeks...a couple of months...before the freon leaks off enough to get to just that right low freon pressure where icing occurs....and after it leaks off some more it just don't cool, don't ice-up, or do anything other than blow warm air. Yes sir, I've got the A/C slow leak tee-shirt collection...been there, done that.

[davejonesbkk]

oops totally forgot about this thread!

The guys from the company came and pretty much took both units apart. they said it was about the lack of coolant, not sure why the regular engineer didnt spot this. So they have topped it back up and did some other things and its been perfect since, I have a feeling its going to just break again like it has done before right on cue in the next 3-4 months though....

[davejonesbkk]

Aha, vindication at last. Thanks, Pib. I *thought* I remembered leaking refrigerant being a potential cause of air con icing.

And a s....l....o....w leak many times can be very hard to detect due to location of the leak even with the most sensitive freon lead detection devices. Each and every time I've had an A/C icing problem over my lifetime it has been due to a low freon charge and of course the icing would always occur at the worst time like going into a hot summer weekend when most A/C repair shops are closed. I've have slow leak problems on two central home A/Cs in my lifetime....icing each time. And when I started having icing problems on one of my vehicles I bought a freon leak detector, vacuum pump, pressure guages, etc., off Ebay so I could service my own vehicle A/C--saved me a bunch of money of the years. A person can top off there freon charge to get the A/C working again, but with the small leak still occurring it will just be a matter of time...days...weeks...a couple of months...before the freon leaks off enough to get to just that right low freon pressure where icing occurs....and after it leaks off some more it just don't cool, don't ice-up, or do anything other than blow warm air. Yes sir, I've got the A/C slow leak tee-shirt collection...been there, done that.

thanks yes this sounds pretty much like my problem but Ive had the regular engineer out like 3 times a year for the 4 yrs Ive been here and now the manufacturers engineers, lets hope they have sorted out any leak this time

[Pib]

Small leaks can be extremely hard to find sometimes especially if the leak only occurs only at a certain temperature and/or pressure, especially at any point where these is a connection point or seal in use. And where I say a "certain pressure" don't assume the leak occurs at the certain "higher" pressure when the compressor pump is running...it may only occur at a "lower" pressure. Had a car air-con compressor do this once on me. At the higher pressure the seal may expand and completely seal the leaking connection...and at lower pressure the seal shrinks a minute amount and allows the leak.

The leaks can actually "not leak" for a while and then just under the right conditions leak....the leak comes and goes.

Now for such leaks the right conditions never appear when the technicians are checking with their freon leak detector--if they even have a leak detector worth a durn. And with small leaks you need to get the leak detector sensor very close to the leak point to sense the leak...many times it's very hard to get the leak detector sensor close to "every point where a leak could occur throughout the entire air-con freon piping system."

The small leaks are the worst kind to have because they can be extremely hard to find sometimes. I won't bore you with details but I had that happen to me twice in my lifetime...once on a home central air-con outside condensor unit and like earlier mentioned once on a car air-con compressor.

[davejonesbkk]

Well, its back again and this time barely 6 weeks since it was 'fixed' so much faster than before. Im assuming all they did last time was clean it and top up the fluid and no leak has been identified...

[Pib]

You might want to get some different folks to fix it this time and stress "they must fine the small leak!" Hopefully they'll put more effort into finding the leak. Good luck.