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Koh Tao murders: Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son


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I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

Yes, but I hope for more. Would it not be a good time to start cleaning up local mafia's. Someone was quoted as saying yesterday that the police would also go after people that helped the kid escape. If Thailand is really lucky these local thugs sorry, leaders, will be brought down. Kao Tao is a microcosm of Thailand as a whole. Pretty much every community has these almost untouchable families, that have total control over local police, politicians and other influential posts. More often than not they are where they are because of extreme violence and intimidation. Everyone in Thailand knows who these people are but they have no one to go to. These people are the police, they are the politicians and powerful businessmen. How can Thailand change when this is how the entire country is run.

Nasty little thugs like this, that think they are above the law, exist in almost every town and city in Thailand. If the army boys are to be successful in setting Thailand on a new path they need to try to do something to stop these thugs. If they are to be really effective with this case they need to end up prosecuting several members of the family, local figures and police that were clearly trying to cover up who did this. It seems very clear that these people knew exactly who did it from the very start.

It also seems the Scots barman was the only person on the island that was prepared to speak up, which again doesn't look great for Thailand. It's hardly the first time a murder has had to be solved by a foreigner because the police didn't want to do so.

The military boys have a very long way to go to clean up the country, however, this horrific incident provides the perfect opportunity to start the process.

be careful what you wish for.

The last couple of local tough men "taken out" didn't go real well. Think Saddam Hussein and Gaddaffi.

Sometimes a local heavy keeps thing under control. They are everywhere not just Thailand. Some will have the blessing of the authorities too to maintain local peace, if not law and order.

It will be the same in your country.

Guaranteed.

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I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

C'mon, I have not been a Sherlock but it is not difficult to totally lock down an area within a few hours with the authority. It is also not difficult, be careful and treat every bit of evidence as if it were the most precious gem. Furthermore, it is also not difficult if you are in power of authority to detain suspects and people under suspicion instead of letting them walk out of the door. That is a given. Oh yea also this quote; 'No Thai could have committed this crime'

The bib / rtp aren't trained like that...

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Didn't one of the cops put the male victim's bloody jeans into the luggage of the victim's friend? When I first read that, I thought : what an assclown mistake. I could be mistaken, I am thoroughly confused by all the conflicting and nonsensical reports lately. Now I feel that, if true, it was no mistake. I feel that if it were not for the recent regime change, few people would even have heard of this horror show. I think heinous crimes like this happen often in Thailand, to farangs and thais both, but they are not properly reported for "various" reasons. Whatever became, if anything , of that drunken cop who cut off the arm of the waitress who refused to have sex with him? And on and on.

The drunken cop who cut off the arm of the girl reappeared, the girl saw him in a restaurant in another area, still in uniform. She notified the authorities and absolutely nothing was done about it. He is probably wearing a tall hat now.

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All clues and knowledge of Thais point to this: uncle has conflict with Brits and after hours him and two others (brother sons) meet up with Brits and a fight begins. Brit man gets killed so they kill the only witness but in the process the two young boys rape the lady and the uncle runs home to clean up.

What we know;

1. There was a conflict at bar with the uncle.

2. The uncle gets police friend and goes after Sean. Maybe to place blame.

3. Uncle at crime location at night and in morning. Trying to cover up

4. Uncle in video after murder running away from crime location.

5. Two sons leave island quickly and are in hiding and seeking legal advice. These are two who have not given DNA. After something like this why did they leave the island ? For school ... I think not real reason.

6. We all know that if the uncle had a conflict that he being a Thai would get help to confront with numbers, not fair fight ....

What is not correct here ?

Could be that there was actually another witness that escaped. Why did Sean claim that owner of AC bar know who the killers was? Also, lets say that it is true that Sean has been covered in blood doing the same morning, could he have been involved somehow, could he know more about the case that he doesn't dare to say?

Well then the questions to add to that are: why was david naked and why was his body in the water away from the big patch of blood on the sand?

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Lumenten post # 30.

Maybe if you gave proper link it wouldn't go to a 404. No links on that website is as the link you provided there, so my guess if that the mistake is on you and not some kind of conspiracy.

The link was copied and pasted into the post, however it doesn't work.
As you seem to extremely knowledgeable about the way links work perhaps you would be kind enough to bestow your wisdom and knowledge to we lesser beings and actually post a working link.
Or would it be that you might have a vested interest in certain matters concerning this horrific crime thus exposure is not desired in your eyes?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-police-identify-two-suspects-over-deaths-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller-9751056.html?origin=internalSearch

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Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

With all the respect in the world...

Just because you had sex with someone doesn't mean you murdered them. I did read a post that the act took place after the murder, but has this been verified?

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Going by the latest report from Thaipbs:

1) DNA tests did not match the two bar owners

2) The brother of the village chief said that one of his employees or friends helped Sean wash blood off his face and body on the night of the murders

3) The two sons of the village chief who fled to Bangkok apparently went there to attend school

My idea .... Only thinking :)

1. The owners are not the ones who raped the lady. The sons ( school boys) were the ones.

2. The brother lies to coverup. We're are these people who washed the blood ? Why they not come forward already? This would have been big news ....

3. Maybe the sons did go back to Bkk for school but that still don't answer why they left when the island was being shutdown. They knew they should not leave as their father and uncle were big shots on island. Also, if not guilty why not stay to see what happens.

Not change to my thinking ....

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Going by the latest report from Thaipbs:

1) DNA tests did not match the two bar owners

2) The brother of the village chief said that one of his employees or friends helped Sean wash blood off his face and body on the night of the murders

3) The two sons of the village chief who fled to Bangkok apparently went there to attend school

My idea .... Only thinking :)

1. The owners are not the ones who raped the lady. The sons ( school boys) were the ones.

2. The brother lies to coverup. We're are these people who washed the blood ? Why they not come forward already? This would have been big news ....

3. Maybe the sons did go back to Bkk for school but that still don't answer why they left when the island was being shutdown. They knew they should not leave as their father and uncle were big shots on island. Also, if not guilty why not stay to see what happens.

Not change to my thinking ....

If the two sons have just returned to BKK to study how come, according to BKKPost, the police have had to mount a manhunt to find them and their own father cannot get in touch with them - surely given what is going on at home they would be aware that they are being looked for???

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Now it's going nasty http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao/ Also : Statement from ac bar koh tao about Andrew Drummond's article :

"ac bar Is not here where they got kill. And the news is saying too much. But I understand the way how they can catch the feeling of people. I will keep your post here and we will see how is the end. I was watching and listening the news but it is not the end yet for how it exactly be and who's the killer. But we still need to work for our life can keep going. We still want to make the less of people happy and still enjoy of their holiday. The warning in the photography we would say it with many things with care of our customer sometime they sex everywhere on the beach on the boat or in the water. There is not the safe place to have sex while drunk.

Like · Reply · 1 min "

What da hell is going on?

So Sean said he was in a group of people playing guitar near the scene, but also says he was at home that night. And then wasnt he the friend originally saying on facebook that he was meant to meet up with David but fell asleep.

Sounds like they should have DNA tested Sean.

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They say that the man seen on the CCTV footage is the caretaker of the AC Bar and brother of the headman. Why did he not recognise himself in the newspaper articles and TV?

He probably did, but if you're wearing shorts from one of the victims, then it might be best to hope no one else will notice that you're the one caught on cam.

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It's quite amusing (putting aside the actual seriousness of the events leading to this) the way the police are going about solving these murders. In a PC western country this sort of DNA mass gathering and mass detentions would not even be contemplated due to civil rights and legal wrangling. Might not be western PC but that the police have one suspect firmly in custody and are on the trail of another suggests that away from the norm they may solve a Falang murder and gain some much needed start point of respect from the western world.

Two things from this case to date come to mind. One that with a good hard kick up the backside from the Junta leader the RTP are capable enough in spite of their lack of modern crime solving resources and second that the RTP are very much in need of having that expertise and resource made available to progress their ability to get results more efficiently and professionally. Another tool in beating corruption is applying professionalism and enjoyment to ones work.

Thats bullshit. In my country, that is as western and social democratic as they get, mass gathering of DNA is very much done when a murder is discovered and an exact time and location can be found. Mass dententions wont happen, but mass interogations happen.

I think he may have been talking about the USA, and not a civilised country.

You must be familiar with the 45th Second amendment where we Goddammit have the right as Merkins to shove a gun up our Asses and Damn well have the Right to choose with the Liberty and God Given rights as Merkins to pull the trigger or not. No need for a three day wait period Goddammit.

Goddamm DNA testing - its my right as a freedom luvvin Merkin to frustrate them Commo bastard POlice every which way. Make Em prove I killed the Motherf...r.....dammit, evrymans right ain't it.

Didn't we invent the Goddam TOOTHBRUSH!! (if it had been invented in Canada it would have been called a TEETHBRUSH)

GODDAMMIT

I must add an apology to my American mates - just having a joke - I'm sure you understand.

Never a good idea to hit the bottle this early...

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I think Sean is more involved then he's letting on his story seems very weak.

"Hours after the murders Sean posted: “My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep.

“He was killed that night. I feel f****** terrible.

“I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her."

2. Police come forward and said they were looking for three westerners playing guitar that night playing near the crime scene? And appear to be 3 new suspects

3. Can anyone else come forward? or is there any cctv footage to say that sean was in fact out that night and not sleeping like he said he was?

4. Why is there a conflicting story where Sean has now come out and said yes he was on the beach that night playing guitar

5. There is also a quote from Montriwat saying.. "An employee of the spa has told Montriwat that she had helped to clean blood from the face and body of Mr sean who is a friend of Millers"

6. Was Montriwat hot on Sean's tale and all they wanted to do was question him some more and that's why he has fled?

7. I followed Seans facebook after the murders and i found it really strange that someone who just lost a lose mate was making posts like normal like nothing had happened? His facebook has now been disabled.

8. Is Sean linked in any other way too the two other suspects, could he have been with them on the beach that night?

This is all all arm chair speculation from different media articles I've read but worth looking into.

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Now it's going nasty http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao/ Also : Statement from ac bar koh tao about Andrew Drummond's article :

"ac bar Is not here where they got kill. And the news is saying too much. But I understand the way how they can catch the feeling of people. I will keep your post here and we will see how is the end. I was watching and listening the news but it is not the end yet for how it exactly be and who's the killer. But we still need to work for our life can keep going. We still want to make the less of people happy and still enjoy of their holiday. The warning in the photography we would say it with many things with care of our customer sometime they sex everywhere on the beach on the boat or in the water. There is not the safe place to have sex while drunk.

Like · Reply · 1 min "

What da hell is going on?

So Sean said he was in a group of people playing guitar near the scene, but also says he was at home that night. And then wasnt he the friend originally saying on facebook that he was meant to meet up with David but fell asleep.

Sounds like they should have DNA tested Sean.

I thought they did test him...???? If not, why not. He got off the island pretty quickly.

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Now it's going nasty http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao/ Also : Statement from ac bar koh tao about Andrew Drummond's article :

"ac bar Is not here where they got kill. And the news is saying too much. But I understand the way how they can catch the feeling of people. I will keep your post here and we will see how is the end. I was watching and listening the news but it is not the end yet for how it exactly be and who's the killer. But we still need to work for our life can keep going. We still want to make the less of people happy and still enjoy of their holiday. The warning in the photography we would say it with many things with care of our customer sometime they sex everywhere on the beach on the boat or in the water. There is not the safe place to have sex while drunk.

Like · Reply · 1 min "

What da hell is going on?

So Sean said he was in a group of people playing guitar near the scene, but also says he was at home that night. And then wasnt he the friend originally saying on facebook that he was meant to meet up with David but fell asleep.

Sounds like they should have DNA tested Sean.

He was.... with negative result.

I have took the time to read through these threads and kept myself upto date. Its not that difficult.

Although some of the news reports are contradictory, I just find there are more and more people posting on here who just cannot be bothered doing even the slightest bit of research and due diligence.

As a result it means people who have a genuine interest in this matter have to keep reading and re reading questions that have been answered a million time already!!

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Now it's going nasty http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao/ Also : Statement from ac bar koh tao about Andrew Drummond's article :

"ac bar Is not here where they got kill. And the news is saying too much. But I understand the way how they can catch the feeling of people. I will keep your post here and we will see how is the end. I was watching and listening the news but it is not the end yet for how it exactly be and who's the killer. But we still need to work for our life can keep going. We still want to make the less of people happy and still enjoy of their holiday. The warning in the photography we would say it with many things with care of our customer sometime they sex everywhere on the beach on the boat or in the water. There is not the safe place to have sex while drunk.

Like · Reply · 1 min "

What da hell is going on?

So Sean said he was in a group of people playing guitar near the scene, but also says he was at home that night. And then wasnt he the friend originally saying on facebook that he was meant to meet up with David but fell asleep.

Sounds like they should have DNA tested Sean.

I thought they did test him...???? If not, why not. He got off the island pretty quickly.

Sorry if they have i didnt know then.

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Test the two sons so we can move on. With out testing Results I would so far place my money on the sons and their uncle. I think three people were involved in this crime.

My current thinking (only an idea): An argument between the uncle and the Brits at the bar happens. The uncle and two of his brother's sons confront the Brits at crime location. Matters get out of hand and they kill the man and decide they need to kill the witness also but the sons decide to rape her in the process. The uncle runs off home and the sons leave the island. The uncle is seen in the video running without shirt as it had blood on it and he was in a hurry to get away from the area.

Maybe ??

I was thinking the exact same thing! Surely they can run a test of the uncles DNA and see if it has similar strains as the DNA evidence. That way you would know the likely hood of a relative being involved.

What this really needs though is for an independant party being there when the police collect and run the DNA testing. There are powerful/wealthy people on that Island and the police can be bought.

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I think the police have turned over a new leaf and are going to pursue this case, no matter where or who it leads to. I believe it is because the army has their back; both to support them and to keep them on the straight and narrow path of righteousness.

If they can bring in the guilty parties and make a credible case against them (no matter who is their father), it will go a long way to restoring respect and confidence in the RTP.

You say the police have turned a new leaf regarding the case? Sure after nearly 2 weeks of trying to set people up, ignore the fact Thais could be involved, local enforcement probably covering things up, ignoring help from outside such as the FBI and having the entire world breaking their balls, good on them... thumbsup.gif

Sorry but I have no respect for them whatsoever, they handled this in a typical Thai manner, it was a circus and laughing stock, horrific images were leaked, the crime scene was a shambles with regards to how it was fenced off and investigated, the GENERAL and his outstanding bikini comment and who can forget blaming the victims friend on the grounds he was a potential homosexual. Yep, looks like Koh Tao and the rest of Thailand has a booming future

The FBI!! No self respecting country would allow a foreign governments police force to meddle in their internal investigations. And the whole world is not breaking their balls. The world consists of more than the UK and US....The PM made an error due to his lack of experience with foreign media. The Thai police are doing their best. And yes. Koh Tao and Thailand has a booming future ahead of them......Heinous crimes happen everywhere not just in Thai.....

The Thai police have always in the past had foreign police and Consultants carrying out training and advising behind the scenes. Several of my friends from various police forces and Consultants have been assisting the Thai police. However, since the coup there was a major reshuffle of Police commanders in favour of friends of the new Government, as I understand it the General does not want foreign advisors anymore. Likewise, foreign news on this case is being censored by blocking the web sites.

"does not want foreign advisers anymore" hardly a surprise but are you able to quote a source for your "understanding"? Not being picky, just interested. To be fair, apart from the Daily Mail, are there any other foreign news sites being blocked?

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The Scott's story doesn't ring completely true. How long was he in Thailand?

Doe's he speak such fluent Thai to understand these threats so clearly? Does the bar caretaker and the other man in the photo speak English so clearly that in such long sentences he could understand every word? Of course he would understand we will kill you but he reports "we will take you up the mountain and hang you" and much more.

Why did the police let him off the island when they don't believe his story? Open statements that he had blood on his guitar and now someone saying they helped him clean blood from his face and clothes. I'm not saying he raped or killed anyone just there is something amiss.

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You say the police have turned a new leaf regarding the case? Sure after nearly 2 weeks of trying to set people up, ignore the fact Thais could be involved, local enforcement probably covering things up, ignoring help from outside such as the FBI and having the entire world breaking their balls, good on them... thumbsup.gif

Sorry but I have no respect for them whatsoever, they handled this in a typical Thai manner, it was a circus and laughing stock, horrific images were leaked, the crime scene was a shambles with regards to how it was fenced off and investigated, the GENERAL and his outstanding bikini comment and who can forget blaming the victims friend on the grounds he was a potential homosexual. Yep, looks like Koh Tao and the rest of Thailand has a booming future

The FBI!! No self respecting country would allow a foreign governments police force to meddle in their internal investigations. And the whole world is not breaking their balls. The world consists of more than the UK and US....The PM made an error due to his lack of experience with foreign media. The Thai police are doing their best. And yes. Koh Tao and Thailand has a booming future ahead of them......Heinous crimes happen everywhere not just in Thai.....

The Thai police have always in the past had foreign police and Consultants carrying out training and advising behind the scenes. Several of my friends from various police forces and Consultants have been assisting the Thai police. However, since the coup there was a major reshuffle of Police commanders in favour of friends of the new Government, as I understand it the General does not want foreign advisors anymore. Likewise, foreign news on this case is being censored by blocking the web sites.

"does not want foreign advisers anymore" hardly a surprise but are you able to quote a source for your "understanding"? Not being picky, just interested. To be fair, apart from the Daily Mail, are there any other foreign news sites being blocked?

Daily Mails blocking has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

Its been blocked in Thailand for a while .

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I think Sean is more involved then he's letting on his story seems very weak.

"Hours after the murders Sean posted: “My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep.

“He was killed that night. I feel f****** terrible.

“I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her."

2. Police come forward and said they were looking for three westerners playing guitar that night playing near the crime scene? And appear to be 3 new suspects

3. Can anyone else come forward? or is there any cctv footage to say that sean was in fact out that night and not sleeping like he said he was?

4. Why is there a conflicting story where Sean has now come out and said yes he was on the beach that night playing guitar

5. There is also a quote from Montriwat saying.. "An employee of the spa has told Montriwat that she had helped to clean blood from the face and body of Mr sean who is a friend of Millers"

6. Was Montriwat hot on Sean's tale and all they wanted to do was question him some more and that's why he has fled?

7. I followed Seans facebook after the murders and i found it really strange that someone who just lost a lose mate was making posts like normal like nothing had happened? His facebook has now been disabled.

8. Is Sean linked in any other way too the two other suspects, could he have been with them on the beach that night?

This is all all arm chair speculation from different media articles I've read but worth looking into.

As far as i am aware Sean has not said he was asleep at the time of the murder, just that he was asleep when he supposed to meet up with David but not what time that was - could have been due to meet up earlier in the evening. I have a friend who i have given up meeting early on as he always turns up several hours later because he nods off.

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It is The PM General putting on the pressure to get this solved You can bet your last baht too The boarders are shut tight for this piece of scum. On fear if found he exited there station on there watch a firing squad might be tuning up with those in charge the intended targets.

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Where is Sean now?

I'm very very surprised that he was allowed to go free so quickly. Not casting any aspersions here, but for the sake of the victims and solving this crime, he should surely have to go undergo DNA testing too?

Murder cases are always complex, it's never going to be a cut and dried scenario - this is not manslaughter, this is a complex situation with multiple factors, and there has to be at least 2 people involved, due to the rape factor and the magnitude of the injuries involved, which ultimately culminated in a gruesome murder.

We are inching closer, but the police on all sides need to keep the pressure up.

I am sure that if Sean is in the UK, he will be questioned by the forces there and will probably have to undergo DNA testing.

"I am sure that if Sean is in the UK, he will be questioned by the forces there and will probably have to undergo DNA testing."

Under want pretense and UK law?

According to a report yest he had already been dna tested

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I think Sean is more involved then he's letting on his story seems very weak.

"Hours after the murders Sean posted: “My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep.

“He was killed that night. I feel f****** terrible.

“I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her."

2. Police come forward and said they were looking for three westerners playing guitar that night playing near the crime scene? And appear to be 3 new suspects

3. Can anyone else come forward? or is there any cctv footage to say that sean was in fact out that night and not sleeping like he said he was?

4. Why is there a conflicting story where Sean has now come out and said yes he was on the beach that night playing guitar

5. There is also a quote from Montriwat saying.. "An employee of the spa has told Montriwat that she had helped to clean blood from the face and body of Mr sean who is a friend of Millers"

6. Was Montriwat hot on Sean's tale and all they wanted to do was question him some more and that's why he has fled?

7. I followed Seans facebook after the murders and i found it really strange that someone who just lost a lose mate was making posts like normal like nothing had happened? His facebook has now been disabled.

8. Is Sean linked in any other way too the two other suspects, could he have been with them on the beach that night?

This is all all arm chair speculation from different media articles I've read but worth looking into.

As far as i am aware Sean has not said he was asleep at the time of the murder, just that he was asleep when he supposed to meet up with David but not what time that was - could have been due to meet up earlier in the evening. I have a friend who i have given up meeting early on as he always turns up several hours later because he nods off.

Montriwat said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

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