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Koh Tao murders: Police free bar owners and look for ex-village headman's son

webfact

By webfact
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peecee Silver Member

peecee

Posted
Posted

It's quite amusing (putting aside the actual seriousness of the events leading to this) the way the police are going about solving these murders. In a PC western country this sort of DNA mass gathering and mass detentions would not even be contemplated due to civil rights and legal wrangling. Might not be western PC but that the police have one suspect firmly in custody and are on the trail of another suggests that away from the norm they may solve a Falang murder and gain some much needed start point of respect from the western world.

Two things from this case to date come to mind. One that with a good hard kick up the backside from the Junta leader the RTP are capable enough in spite of their lack of modern crime solving resources and second that the RTP are very much in need of having that expertise and resource made available to progress their ability to get results more efficiently and professionally. Another tool in beating corruption is applying professionalism and enjoyment to ones work.

The police would have got some kudos if they had cordoned of the crime scene and immediately locked down the island.

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Iumentum Advanced Member

Iumentum

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Posted

Sorry for making people disappointed here, but there will be no arrests in the foreseeable future. If those two sons are guilty as seems to be the case, they will be able to avoid capture for a long time, helped by their many cunning and resourceful relatives.

One possible tactic that can be copied here was used by the former interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, when his youngest son Duangchalerm killed a police officer in Bangkok back in 2001. The son first got shelter and protection from a Thai general. When that didn't seem to be safe enough, he was squirreled away to Cambodia, and later on to Malaysia.

Then a few months later his daddy had worked out a satisfactory deal with the authorities and could escort his son back to Thailand. The son spent a few months in jail, then was released in 2003 on bail terms, and later on acquitted completely. And this for a murder where he was guilty as hell and the nightclub, where it happened, full of eye witnesses wink.png

Can you also tell what next weeks lotto numbers will be? Now that you can see the future, please share some useful information.

We don't know what will happen, all we can do is hope that we will see justice in this case, and that the PM/General will do what he can to make it happen. Things seem to be changing at the moment, but for now then all we can do is hope for the better.

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partington Gold Member

partington

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/dna-timeline.shtml

As a Forensic DNA Analyst, I have often been asked why DNA analysis takes so long.

Conclusion

Obviously, this time-line is a rough estimate of how long it would take to analyze a relatively straightforward case based on my experience in the laboratory. The total time adds up to approximately 54 hours and 15 minutes. Along with the other tasks mentioned earlier—cleaning, documentation, and quality control—it is probably closer to 60 hours. As can be seen, the forensic DNA analyst has many responsibilities, from quality control to actual technical work in the laboratory to technical reviews. There are other responsibilities such as testifying in court, training other laboratory personnel, etc. The analyst usually has to juggle multiple cases as well. There is no short-cut to speed up DNA testing. With lives and liberty at stake, the forensic DNA analyst has an obligation to produce the highest quality of work and with this commitment comes the cost of time.

Hmm, still wondering...

This is exactly right. If the DNA was taken when these men were being interviewed, there is not enough time to have done a DNA profile. This must be misreporting. The fact that the article said blood and urine tests showed no drug use and that the DNA didn't match suggests misreporting or cover up, as drug tests and blood type test (A, B , O) can be done quickly and semi-locally whereas DNA samples would need to go to Bangkok for specialised equipment, and after reaching Bangkok, even working all night would be hard to accomplish within 48 hours.

It looks like no profiling was done, merely blood typing, and these men could not have been genuinely eliminated on DNA grounds. DNA profiling would also show clearly whether the DNA from the crime scene was from a child of the person being tested, as has been pointed out, and is therefore another indication that this has not actually been done.

I sense a case that will collapse, through influence not innocence.

Edited by partington
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mojorison Silver Member

mojorison

Posted
Posted

Sorry for making people disappointed here, but there will be no arrests in the foreseeable future. If those two sons are guilty as seems to be the case, they will be able to avoid capture for a long time, helped by their many cunning and resourceful relatives.

One possible tactic that can be copied here was used by the former interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, when his youngest son Duangchalerm killed a police officer in Bangkok back in 2001. The son first got shelter and protection from a Thai general. When that didn't seem to be safe enough, he was squirreled away to Cambodia, and later on to Malaysia.

Then a few months later his daddy had worked out a satisfactory deal with the authorities and could escort his son back to Thailand. The son spent a few months in jail, then was released in 2003 on bail terms, and later on acquitted completely. And this for a murder where he was guilty as hell and the nightclub, where it happened, full of eye witnesses wink.png

Yeah same same but different. Gruesome rape double farang murder... gangster son popping gangster copper in gangster disco... military regime in power now need to maintain order, also need to show world what they've "got"... they'll get these maggots, then the punishment will fit the crime. Nae non.

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sweatalot Gold Member

sweatalot

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Lets get back to the blood on Seans face , that the brother told police he had heard from a lady working in a spa on the island.

So according to him , Sean had blood on his face and the lady at the spa helped him to clean himself the same night as the murders took place. If there's any truth to this Sean McAnna could have been a witness to the murders. He could have been drunk and maybe do not remember so much of what actually happened.

So maybe he was actually trying to help the victims at the murder scene? And then he realized there was nothing he could do and just escaped.

same applies to montravat

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sssamui Rookie Member

sssamui

Posted
Posted

I'm not an expert like you and ... Alfredo do you have rhe same pics like I have ? From the girl?

1 more pic from a thai guy Guess who?

Ok, what evidence is to see on your posted photos?

I'm not a investigator like you Alfredo, just look at the pic and figure it out for yourself ... Btw. I asked the guy who has the pics to delete them. Nothing, I also reported to FB - nothing...

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SirBser Explorer Member

SirBser

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Posted

Lets get back to the blood on Seans face , that the brother told police he had heard from a lady working in a spa on the island.

So according to him , Sean had blood on his face and the lady at the spa helped him to clean himself the same night as the murders took place. If there's any truth to this Sean McAnna could have been a witness to the murders. He could have been drunk and maybe do not remember so much of what actually happened.

So maybe he was actually trying to help the victims at the murder scene? And then he realized there was nothing he could do and just escaped.

same applies to montravat

Lol.!

There trying to get the focus off their family.

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Snookyville Apprentice Member

Snookyville

Posted
Posted

And they also need to ask why he was at the crime scene with police investigating on Day 1. Please explain that one to us Mr. Police officer. Somebody ask these questions to them please

That gets explained all the time by stating that he is the owner of the land, and was one of the first at the crime scene. But whether it was stupid from the police or planned we don't know. DNA contamination is already mentioned (if any of his hairs are found at the crime-scene for example that could have been from the morning as well as from the night if he was involved but not one of the rapists/killers).

As he denied the DNA test for some time he effectively delayed finding out sooner that the rapists/killers are family and Thai. Which he of course already knew - but hard to prove though in court though (same as any threats he made to Sean McAnna that were just a 'talk', how convenient).

Hanlon's razor says: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

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Mooner Silver Member

Mooner

Posted
Posted

This case gets worse. They pull in the guys that Sean said threatened him and we find out another family member is on the run.

We all think some progress is being made and there will be some arrests and people charged and then the guys from Ko Tao are not matched to the DNA and now it is implied that the family member on the run probably had assailants who were friends but nobody knows who.

How do they know he is in Bkk? Will he ever be found? Very convenient he had that week head start before any evidence came out!

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joedot Explorer Member

joedot

Posted
Posted (edited)

And they also need to ask why he was at the crime scene with police investigating on Day 1. Please explain that one to us Mr. Police officer. Somebody ask these questions to them please

That gets explained all the time by stating that he is the owner of the land, and was one of the first at the crime scene. But whether it was stupid from the police or planned we don't know. DNA contamination is already mentioned (if any of his hairs are found at the crime-scene for example that could have been from the morning as well as from the night if he was involved but not one of the rapists/killers).

As he denied the DNA test for some time he effectively delayed finding out sooner that the rapists/killers are family and Thai. Which he of course already knew - but hard to prove though in court though (same as any threats he made to Sean McAnna that were just a 'talk', how convenient).

Hanlon's razor says: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand Mon's brother owns AC bar and some resort. Mon is just his brother. I don't think he owns the beach. Why is a civilian trampling all over the crime scene with police. This has not been explained away at all.

Edited by joedot
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Orac Gold Member

Orac

Posted
Posted

This cctv image dosn't look right to me, what is he holding up? his shorts? or a t-shirt wrapped round his shorts. I read in an article that He had blue shorts on and then cream shorts later on.

Or an injury of some sort. Don't forget that apparently David put up a fight so there is every chance that at least one of the ppl involved showed some sign of this which would possibly require a quick exit from the island and lying low for any such injuries to heal.

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Iumentum Advanced Member

Iumentum

Posted
Posted

And they also need to ask why he was at the crime scene with police investigating on Day 1. Please explain that one to us Mr. Police officer. Somebody ask these questions to them please

That gets explained all the time by stating that he is the owner of the land, and was one of the first at the crime scene. But whether it was stupid from the police or planned we don't know. DNA contamination is already mentioned (if any of his hairs are found at the crime-scene for example that could have been from the morning as well as from the night if he was involved but not one of the rapists/killers).

As he denied the DNA test for some time he effectively delayed finding out sooner that the rapists/killers are family and Thai. Which he of course already knew - but hard to prove though in court though (same as any threats he made to Sean McAnna that were just a 'talk', how convenient).

Hanlon's razor says: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand Mon's brother owns AC bar and some resort. Mon is just his brother. I don't think he owns the beach. Why is a civilian trampling all over the crime scene with police. This has not been explained away at all.

Neither him or his brother own the piece of the beach where the bodies was found. Even if it was so, then police should without a doubt have removed all civilians from the crime scene as it was locked down for investigation.

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joedot Explorer Member

joedot

Posted
Posted

In regard to the stories about blood seen on Sean McAnna, here is what was posted on a German Forum ( not named due to TV policies) at about the time when Sean was chased by the 2 guys...

To me it looks like there was a story made up before that Sean would be forced to hang himself..anyway here the translation from the German post

21.Sept 2014 22:39:28

A friend of mine who lives on Koh Tao since 10 years ( he is Thai) and works in the bar next door...whatever

He just wrote that the police has arrested the one in the cave and a Scottisch guy who possible is dependent on dope and had made music on that evening.

Apperently someone hat seen him covered in blood and remembered it today..they have arrested him today 18.00 (thaitime) his name should be Sean Mc Anna, he planned to stay 6 months on Koh Tao and had allready bought a motorbike but wanted to get rid of it to get hold of money..very mysterios

Was that post written in German on the German forum or was it written in English as you have put it here? That makes a big difference. If this story was planted by Thai's I don't think they would put up a post in German. If this was in English I think this was definitely part of the setup due to the curious timing of it.

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Lukecan Silver Member

Lukecan

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Posted

Let me give my thoughts, the owners of that bar probably really thought that Sean was the killer, they tried their own interrogation style to get him to admit it, but since he didn't have anything to do with it they couldn't get him to admit. Loss of tourists on that island means loss of money for those bar owners, I'm sure they're pissed at the killers too.

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joedot Explorer Member

joedot

Posted
Posted

In the police own words: "Montriat Tuwichian is a person of interest". Ok, I'm a reporter. First thing I ask is what was this guy doing at the crime scene alongside police on Day 1? What is his role. I have never in my life seen police let a civilian stand along beside them as they do their investigation. Someone who later becomes a person of interest in the same murder. Why the hell aren't the reporters pressing the police on this? I don't buy this nonsense that the DNA test clears him. They have the result less than 24 hours after supposedly taking a sample of his DNA. Doesn't happen that quick on a small island or probably anywhere for that matter.

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Snookyville Apprentice Member

Snookyville

Posted
Posted

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand Mon's brother owns AC bar and some resort. Mon is just his brother. I don't think he owns the beach. Why is a civilian trampling all over the crime scene with police. This has not been explained away at all.

Neither him or his brother own the piece of the beach where the bodies was found. Even if it was so, then police should without a doubt have removed all civilians from the crime scene as it was locked down for investigation.

Yes that is right, nobody really owns any of the land on Koh Tao. Just squatter rights and buildings upon squatted land. In the news he was portrayed as owner of AC Bar initially while later that was corrected to the In Touch Bar. All the same family to which these squatting rights were handed to and own much of everything on Sairee, so I think it is just a minor detail here who owns exactly what.

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