Islamic State battle could take years, Pentagon says

[webfact]

Islamic State battle could take years, Pentagon says

WASHINGTON: -- The fight against jihadist group Islamic State (IS) will take years, a US military spokesman has told the BBC.

Rear Admiral John Kirby also said that US-led air strikes against IS in Syria had disrupted the group's capabilities.

The remark came as President Barack Obama thanked Arab states for help and Secretary of State John Kerry said more than 50 nations had agreed to fight IS.

IS has seized large areas of Syria and Iraq, and the US has launched nearly 200 air strikes in Iraq since August.

Monday's strikes however expanded the anti-IS campaign across the border into Syria for the first time.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29337800


-- BBC 2014-09-24

[NeverSure]

"Years" as in "never." We're going to have to just keep killing as many of them as we can, where we find them, try to keep them out of our countries, and hold it down as much as we can.

They are rabid about killing all infidels and having a world that is only Muslim.

How do we fight someone who doesn't care if he dies and therefore will never surrender? I don't know that we've ever had that before.

[Ulysses G.]

Someone who actually WANTS to die in jihad. That is the only way that Muslims can be sure that they will get into paradise.

[BATHIK]

The military core of IS is former Saddam army with zero interest in ideology. ISIL chief killed earlier this year even had to be persuaded to grow a beard for PR purposes, he wouldn't do it on his own.

Now they've been infected with global jihad and treated like one, so more jihadis will join. Can we somehow rewind it all back to when former Saddam officers were released from jails and sent to fight Assad in Syria? Can we let them carve their land, sell oil, and be happy? They are not interested in jihad, they just want power and land to control.

Is this "our civilization is under threat" rhetoric a self-fulfilling prophecy? Isn't a big part of jihadi recruitment drive. They just listen to Obama speeches and decide that IS is the place to be right now.

But yeah, at a rate of one bomb/cruise missile per killed militant IS would last very very long indeed.

[arjunadawn]

The military core of IS is former Saddam army with zero interest in ideology. ISIL chief killed earlier this year even had to be persuaded to grow a beard for PR purposes, he wouldn't do it on his own.

Now they've been infected with global jihad and treated like one, so more jihadis will join. Can we somehow rewind it all back to when former Saddam officers were released from jails and sent to fight Assad in Syria? Can we let them carve their land, sell oil, and be happy? They are not interested in jihad, they just want power and land to control.

Is this "our civilization is under threat" rhetoric a self-fulfilling prophecy? Isn't a big part of jihadi recruitment drive. They just listen to Obama speeches and decide that IS is the place to be right now.

But yeah, at a rate of one bomb/cruise missile per killed militant IS would last very very long indeed.

Your observation is a fair one, though I think untenable. Shouldn't we just leave them alone? Are our pronouncements self fulfilling? Well, there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none! Our declarations serve to synergize the jihadi problem; and we conveniently create the modern era's Emmanuel Goldstein- how convenient for the State! The risk of saying nothing and doing less (leaving them to their own ends) is a gamble that cannot be taken in light of the rapid spread of this virulent ideology, and a look at how many tens of millions have been slaughtered in its name over 1400 years. We must acknowledge facts, but declare them honestly- Islamic 'ideology' is a significant problem to the evolution of life on earth, civil society, and western civilization specifically (this statement makes no claim regarding Islamic faith, per se). Our boldness in defining the problem may help the silent population of Islam announce their displeasure with modern jihad- it might but it would empower us regardless.

Had this been simply an effort to scramble jihadi goals where they sleep I could support it. Had this been a singular mission to protect the west, I could believe it. However, this onion of a strategy is designed to develop multiple ends, which make potential complications very real. Arguably, the goal is to decrease jihadi threats to the west, decrease same threats to regional sunni allies, but the ancillary goals are to weaken Iranian hegemony and check mate Russia in the region. All these overlapping goals are arrayed against the single thing they cannot defeat- an idea!

Without the West defining the threat, taking stock of the idea and its cause/source, and limiting the mission to self preservation instead of empire building, the US et al will only fuel the legitimacy of jihad (as the poster above suggests). You cannot defeat what you dont acknowledge exists.

http://national.deseretnews.com/article/2332/Americans-link-violence-with-Muslims-but-Obama-says-ISIL-is-not-Islam.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/politics/obama-isil-not-islamic/

A different perspective (not mine):

http://christandpopculture.com/obama-say-isil-islamic-hes-fool/

Judge a person by their actions, not their words:

http://www.pipelinenews.org/2014/jun/23/The-Exponential-Growth-of-Revolutionary-Islam-Under-President.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/19103-to-battle-isis-jihadists-obama-will-arm-more-jihadists-in-syria

[car720]

The military core of IS is former Saddam army with zero interest in ideology. ISIL chief killed earlier this year even had to be persuaded to grow a beard for PR purposes, he wouldn't do it on his own.

Now they've been infected with global jihad and treated like one, so more jihadis will join. Can we somehow rewind it all back to when former Saddam officers were released from jails and sent to fight Assad in Syria? Can we let them carve their land, sell oil, and be happy? They are not interested in jihad, they just want power and land to control.

Is this "our civilization is under threat" rhetoric a self-fulfilling prophecy? Isn't a big part of jihadi recruitment drive. They just listen to Obama speeches and decide that IS is the place to be right now.

But yeah, at a rate of one bomb/cruise missile per killed militant IS would last very very long indeed.

Your observation is a fair one, though I think untenable. Shouldn't we just leave them alone? Are our pronouncements self fulfilling? Well, there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none! Our declarations serve to synergize the jihadi problem; and we conveniently create the modern era's Emmanuel Goldstein- how convenient for the State! The risk of saying nothing and doing less (leaving them to their own ends) is a gamble that cannot be taken in light of the rapid spread of this virulent ideology, and a look at how many tens of millions have been slaughtered in its name over 1400 years. We must acknowledge facts, but declare them honestly- Islamic 'ideology' is a significant problem to the evolution of life on earth, civil society, and western civilization specifically (this statement makes no claim regarding Islamic faith, per se). Our boldness in defining the problem may help the silent population of Islam announce their displeasure with modern jihad- it might but it would empower us regardless.

Had this been simply an effort to scramble jihadi goals where they sleep I could support it. Had this been a singular mission to protect the west, I could believe it. However, this onion of a strategy is designed to develop multiple ends, which make potential complications very real. Arguably, the goal is to decrease jihadi threats to the west, decrease same threats to regional sunni allies, but the ancillary goals are to weaken Iranian hegemony and check mate Russia in the region. All these overlapping goals are arrayed against the single thing they cannot defeat- an idea!

Without the West defining the threat, taking stock of the idea and its cause/source, and limiting the mission to self preservation instead of empire building, the US et al will only fuel the legitimacy of jihad (as the poster above suggests). You cannot defeat what you dont acknowledge exists.

http://national.deseretnews.com/article/2332/Americans-link-violence-with-Muslims-but-Obama-says-ISIL-is-not-Islam.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/politics/obama-isil-not-islamic/

A different perspective (not mine):

http://christandpopculture.com/obama-say-isil-islamic-hes-fool/

Judge a person by their actions, not their words:

http://www.pipelinenews.org/2014/jun/23/The-Exponential-Growth-of-Revolutionary-Islam-Under-President.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/19103-to-battle-isis-jihadists-obama-will-arm-more-jihadists-in-syria

Very eloquent indeed. I enjoyed the read.

Only one thing I would like to mention. The marketplace. If you have major companies who have to sell guns and ammo somewhere, then where do you think might be the best place to sell them and why.

[Thorgal]

US air strikes killed 10 civilians...

Perhaps used as human shields ???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/civilian-deaths-syria_n_5870564.html

Yes, indeed, this is going to be a long war...

Edited September 24, 2014 by Thorgal

[Thaiready]

Need to use some of those ICBM's on the Whole Middle-East. Because the BS is not going to stop till the breath is taken from every last one of them.

[lvr181]

Not always easy to cut out a cancer - but you sure gotta give it a go, before it overwhelms you.

[BATHIK]

there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none!

What? Europe and the west had be under no threat from Islamists of any kind for like a thousand years. Until every recently we didn't know jihadists even existed, they didn't know it themselves.

Modern jihad is reactionary, it was born as opposition to creation of Israel, Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and Americans taking over Saudi Arabia, that got the ball rolling.

Now that these dudes exist AND attract significant following something needs to be done, sure, but IS is not a uniform state, ideologists are only a front riding on the back of military success of non-religious pragmatists. Until this summer the US had control over them via financing so ISIL was declared a JV league but once they took over Mosul and oil fields they got out of (American and Saudi) control.

These pragmatists probably don't want a war with the whole world over stupid things Islamist hot heads say, they'd rather make deals, not war. They ostensibly fight Kurds, for example, but at the same time use Kurds' channels to smuggle their oil out of IS territories. Business and politics have no permanent enemies, and their appetite is reasonable - they just want what was taken from them after the fall of Saddam.

They probably would not think twice about slaughtering their jihadi "brothers" if they think it would serve them better just like they would slaughter Shias or Syrians.

"Divide and conquer" rule is still as valid as ever, the West should be relying on that rather than on uniting all jihadis of the world under IS banner, unless they plan to kill them all in one strike, that is.

[Bernard Flint]

"Years" as in "never." We're going to have to just keep killing as many of them as we can, where we find them, try to keep them out of our countries, and hold it down as much as we can.

They are rabid about killing all infidels and having a world that is only Muslim.

How do we fight someone who doesn't care if he dies and therefore will never surrender? I don't know that we've ever had that before.

Sir

I agree with you.How many of these inbreds are walking the planet,cant be that many.Each air strike takes out 100, wouldnt take that long.They dont want to die, they will be hiding like rats when the united forces start bombing them every day.

The 72 virgins are waiting for u, just hope they are of age,as most of these inbreds are pedos too

[Mosha]

there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none!

What? Europe and the west had be under no threat from Islamists of any kind for like a thousand years. Until every recently we didn't know jihadists even existed, they didn't know it themselves.

Modern jihad is reactionary, it was born as opposition to creation of Israel, Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and Americans taking over Saudi Arabia, that got the ball rolling.

Now that these dudes exist AND attract significant following something needs to be done, sure, but IS is not a uniform state, ideologists are only a front riding on the back of military success of non-religious pragmatists. Until this summer the US had control over them via financing so ISIL was declared a JV league but once they took over Mosul and oil fields they got out of (American and Saudi) control.

These pragmatists probably don't want a war with the whole world over stupid things Islamist hot heads say, they'd rather make deals, not war. They ostensibly fight Kurds, for example, but at the same time use Kurds' channels to smuggle their oil out of IS territories. Business and politics have no permanent enemies, and their appetite is reasonable - they just want what was taken from them after the fall of Saddam.

They probably would not think twice about slaughtering their jihadi "brothers" if they think it would serve them better just like they would slaughter Shias or Syrians.

"Divide and conquer" rule is still as valid as ever, the West should be relying on that rather than on uniting all jihadis of the world under IS banner, unless they plan to kill them all in one strike, that is.

You need to search much earlier. Back to when the desert raider started.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Mosha

[lvr181]

there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none!

Modern jihad is reactionary, it was born as opposition to creation of Israel, Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and Americans taking over Saudi Arabia, that got the ball rolling.

Bulls hit - they were always there. Now they have found the finance to raise their ugly heads, like little kids trying to get their own way. Petulant and dangerous thugs. If they want to live by the sword then they can expect to die by the sword. Sick twisted logic of their religion - some Christians same also, unfortunately.

[facthailand]

What a waste of lives on all sides! About time for the 'free world' to butt out and leave other countries to create their own social solutions? Why is it our business, anyway?

'Hope-and-change' Obama hasn't changed anything and made the world a hopeless place. Who could possibly think him any different from Bush?!? The Nobel Peace Laureate is now bombing seven Muslim countries for no defined reason. The Constitutional scholar makes decisions outside the rule of law.

Can you believe he sends his daughters to a Quaker school?!?

Just as in Thailand, it's all about money. Weapons are big business and all the countries the US is obliterating are sitting atop vast resources, not only of oil but of ores and rare earths.

America, as a society, is enthusiastically digging its own grave...

[Publicus]

US, Arab allies strike IS jihadists in Syria

The Pentagon described the strikes as "very successful".

…

It said they hit targets including IS positions, training compounds, command centers and armed vehicles in the jihadist stronghold of Raqa and near the border with Iraq.

The raids marked a turning point in the war against IS, which has seized swathes of Syria and Iraq and declared an Islamic "caliphate".

An anti-regime activist in Raqa, Abu Yusef, said IS had redeployed its fighters in response."The impact of the strikes has been huge," and the jihadists "are focused on trying to save themselves now," he told AFP by Internet.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-bombs-jihadists-syria-pentagon-014756543.html;_ylt=AwrTHQpLqSJUlW8Ald5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0b2c4cGRuBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTMEY29sbwNncTEEdnRpZANWSVA1MjNfMQ--

Modern precision bombs are both exact and immensely powerful, having among others things to destroy solid walls of stone fortifications and old stone or marble buildings (as well as lesser ones). They radically minimize civilian casualties. When one discusses civilian casualties one is speaking first and foremost of war itself and secondarily about bombs.

IS are scattering for their lives which is the whole point. Their 72 virgins don't seem to matter much against bombs the force and accuracy of which the 99% are unable to imagine.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Publicus

[catweazle]

Cui Bono?

[toooa]

ISIS is a manufactured enemy. Iraq's "liberation" from Saddam, the "liberation" of Libya. Brilliant strategy! Who did they liberate? All manner of nutters obviously. Funding proxies to take down Assad and bother Iran...proxies whose allegiances shift like the desert sands in the wind. Genius that one. And why do we need an enemy? Well, Al Qaeda's getting a bit old...somehow we've got to justify the War on Terror, gotta keep the people scared in order to keep the State strong.

In 1984, you've gotta be at war. And don't forget, your kids have already been signed up to pay the bills, even if they're not born yet.

The jihadi's are just useful idiots. 72 Virgins...plus a ticket to heaven. If only it were true eh? I bet even Al Baghdadi doesn't believe the BS he preaches. Still there are fools aplenty born everyday.

If ISIS are so tough lets see them have a crack at Iran. No way. They'd be crushed. The whole situation is completely retarded. The worlds a seething cauldron of nonsense ideologies and superstitious poppycock. Move over simpletons, some of us actually want the human race to evolve rather than devolve.

Edited September 24, 2014 by toooa

[arjunadawn]

there is no evidence in the historic record that leaving islamic jihad alone leaves them to their own ends- none!

What? Europe and the west had be under no threat from Islamists of any kind for like a thousand years. Until every recently we didn't know jihadists even existed, they didn't know it themselves.

Modern jihad is reactionary, it was born as opposition to creation of Israel, Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and Americans taking over Saudi Arabia, that got the ball rolling.

Now that these dudes exist AND attract significant following something needs to be done, sure, but IS is not a uniform state, ideologists are only a front riding on the back of military success of non-religious pragmatists. Until this summer the US had control over them via financing so ISIL was declared a JV league but once they took over Mosul and oil fields they got out of (American and Saudi) control.

These pragmatists probably don't want a war with the whole world over stupid things Islamist hot heads say, they'd rather make deals, not war. They ostensibly fight Kurds, for example, but at the same time use Kurds' channels to smuggle their oil out of IS territories. Business and politics have no permanent enemies, and their appetite is reasonable - they just want what was taken from them after the fall of Saddam.

They probably would not think twice about slaughtering their jihadi "brothers" if they think it would serve them better just like they would slaughter Shias or Syrians.

"Divide and conquer" rule is still as valid as ever, the West should be relying on that rather than on uniting all jihadis of the world under IS banner, unless they plan to kill them all in one strike, that is.

Sorry, your post is simply inaccurate and feeds the false narrative that Islamic jihad is a response to western meddling or the Israeli State. The fact is Islamic jihad began against Europe in the middle 7th century and continued in one form or another unabated until approximately 1683. This is roughly 1000 out of 1400 years.

As I'd noted elsewhere The Ottoman Empire, though defeated at the Vienna siege, was nevertheless the cohesive glue that bound Islam. During the idle years leading up to WWI the idleness of Islamic jihad under the Ottoman yoke was so out of context and scriptural Islamic authority that the Whahabi Islam easily gained traction. This "sick man of Islamic jihad" state fueled the agree ability of the Muslim Brotherhood as well. So, when considered frankly, even when Islamic jihad fell asleep adherents didn't rest 100 years before fueling again the scriptural mandate to wage war upon the unbelievers until Salam- Peace- the Peace of global Jihad had taken over the world.

It's fantasy that Islam had ever existed agreeably with others. You may hv your own conclusion but you cant really have your ur own facts.

[toooa]

If you promised a retarded kid 72 fluffy cats and free ice cream for ever he'd probably see through it...

[arjunadawn]

ISIS is a manufactured enemy. Iraq's "liberation" from Saddam, the "liberation" of Libya. Brilliant strategy! Who did they liberate? All manner of nutters obviously. Funding proxies to take down Assad and bother Iran...proxies whose allegiances shift like the desert sands in the wind. Genius that one. And why do we need an enemy? Well, Al Qaeda's getting a bit old...somehow we've got to justify the War on Terror, gotta keep the people scared in order to keep the State strong.

In 1984, you've gotta be at war. And don't forget, your kids have already been signed up to pay the bills, even if they're not born yet.

The jihadi's are just useful idiots. 72 Virgins...plus a ticket to heaven. If only it were true eh? I bet even Al Baghdadi doesn't believe the BS he preaches. Still there are fools aplenty born everyday.

If ISIS are so tough lets see them have a crack at Iran. No way. They'd be crushed. The whole situation is completely retarded. The worlds a seething cauldron of nonsense ideologies and superstitious poppycock. Move over simpletons, some of us actually want the human race to evolve rather than devolve.

I think this is a great post!

[BATHIK]

Ottoman Empire as an ancestor to modern day jihadis? That's rich. That's just creating an enemy where there isn't one.

Assuming that people join jihad simply for the promise of 72 virgins is also silly. Are you really closing your eyes to the possibility that they have fairly rational reasons for their war?

Jihad is mostly a reaction to perceived injustices, a tit for tat struggle. In the beginning of each beheading video they explain why they are doing it but people just refuse to listen, they want blood.

Well, a crime is a crime and there must be punishment for it but better approach is to address it holistically, looking at what causes it, too, and trying to solve the underlying problems.

[ableguy]

Someone who actually WANTS to die in jihad. That is the only way that Muslims can be sure that they will get into paradise.

The real problem is not one of them ever came back to say paradise does not exist, it is of course an invention to control idiots, much like going to hell or purgatory controls idiots in the West. Religion is a curse invented by mankind to control mankind.

Introduce fear or pleasure your in control, in the case of Islam add lack of education.

[ableguy]

Ottoman Empire as an ancestor to modern day jihadis? That's rich. That's just creating an enemy where there isn't one.

Assuming that people join jihad simply for the promise of 72 virgins is also silly. Are you really closing your eyes to the possibility that they have fairly rational reasons for their war?

Jihad is mostly a reaction to perceived injustices, a tit for tat struggle. In the beginning of each beheading video they explain why they are doing it but people just refuse to listen, they want blood.

Well, a crime is a crime and there must be punishment for it but better approach is to address it holistically, looking at what causes it, too, and trying to solve the underlying problems.

Get real.

[Publicus]

"Get real"? In what way? Stop thinking? Stop trying to understand the problem from different angles?

Or is it as in "Sh*t just got real" when the West drops another hundred bombs and kills 30 alleged militants, a dozen civilians, and two camels? That's a real victory there. Hoo-f*-in'-ray! Let's do it again next month, there are only like 20,000 more of them to go. Our course is the righteous one, we shall not stop until we kill everything that moves there.

"Or is it as in "Sh*t just got real" when the West drops another hundred bombs and kills 30 alleged militants, a dozen civilians,civilians, and two camels?"

That's fantasy rhetoric pulled out of the air.

The armaments are precise and devastatingly powerful, effective even over such a vast and barren area as the ME where terrorists can hole up in many locations across a wide area. With their vehicles targeted for destruction and being destroyed in almost every attack to date it becomes a long walk for IS to go anywhere, to include to expand their holdings or to scatter, retreat, hide.

The rhetoric misses the realities, completely.

[Bwanatickey]

Who armed and trained ISIS , just a year ago, with Operatives who where covert special teachers, from lands abroad,and they arm and train them.

Then a year later the same sponsors of this group claim that a Frankenstein, has been created.

And We need to destroy , this Frankenstein that they unleashed.

The plot does not stop there.

[HaleySabai]

The title could read: Barbarism Versus Stupidism

In my lifetime, the USA has not blundered into a more incoherent, feckless, and unfavorable foreign policy quandary than we see today.

Does any tattoo-free American adult outside the Kardashian-NFL mass hypnosis matrix feel confident about the trajectory of US policy regarding the so-called Islamic State (ISIS, ISIL)? First, there is the astonishing humiliation that this ragtag band of psychopaths managed to undo ten years, 4,500 US battle deaths, and $1+ trillion worth of nation-building effort in Iraq in a matter of a few weeks this summer. The US public does not seem to have groked the damage to our honor, self-confidence, and international standing in this debacle.

We’ll look back on these weirdly placid years after the 2008 train wreck with amazement. These are the rudderless years of no leadership, of cowardly dissimulating midgets. A people can only take so much of that.

[Publicus]

From Frankenstein to the "Kardashian-NFL mass hypnosis matrix" covers a lot of ground.

I think I hear the far left beating down the door in their pursuit of a Neville Chamberlain and Noam Chomsky peace.

All the while manufacturing monsters and matrixes.

[sustento]

Just think of all that lovely cash that will be sloshing around the arms industry in the near future!

[Pakboong]

Just think of all that lovely cash that will be sloshing around the arms industry in the near future!

Sadly, it will not be enough to get even. Losers in a poker game always want to raise the stakes before the game breaks up.

[IAMHERE]

I remember when we were doubtful about the 'friendliness' of the Chinese. There was a thought that they could march 4 abreast into the China Sea and they'd never all die. I'm now thing the same about the radicalized muslims, never gonna solve that problem by killing a couple dozen with bombs. There isn't enough money for bombs to kill enough of them to make a difference. Besides, I want that money to be spent on medical care, better education, rebuilding the infrastructure, and other social programs; no more money for guns. We need these dollars to be spent on Americans, not killing desert rats.