Do you use MSG (Mono sodium glutamate in cooking?

[herb59]

cant get enough. always so horny.

[Mousehound]

I like the taste of food containing MSG but in recent years if there is a lot added to food I find my tongue and lining in my mouth swells and I get quite severe asthma. So "mai chue rot nah khrap" for me.

[MZurf]

Funny how the people who claim to have an "allergy" to it only experience flare-ups after eating in Asian restaurants...

Because they put so much of it in there!!!! Without it, most food here would taste awful. But it's ironic that there's never the same apathy regard peanut sufferers and this stuff is a manufactured chemical! If you're not sensitive then bully for you, I'm sure you can eat and drink everything with ease, wow what it must be like to be perfect, I salute you all.

The first time I experienced an adverse reaction to large amounts of MSG was when eating in Chinese restaurants in Europe when I was a kid. Of course, at the time I didn't know it was from the MSG. Many years later after having moved to Thailand I occasionally had the same reaction when eating food in some street stalls and restaurants. That made me do a bit of research on the subject and I suspected MSG could be the culprit.

So I did a simple experiment; I had the wife make me two bowls of noodle soup - one with no MSG and another one with lots of MSG, and me not knowing which is which. Now, I cannot taste the difference between food with or without added MSG but to be on the safe side I had her make it so spicy that no one could have told the difference. Lo and behold; I had an adverse reaction* to the one with MSG and no reaction to the one without. That's enough evidence for me to conclude that I react negatively to large amounts of MGS in the food.

Yes, MSG is present in a lot of the food we eat, especially here in Thailand/Asia. But it's the amount of added MSG that I believe causes a reaction in many of us.

*Please note that I'm using the term "adverse reaction" since saying "allergic reaction" seems to get some people's teats in a twist.

[happy pattaya man]

I like the taste of food containing MSG but in recent years if there is a lot added to food I find my tongue and lining in my mouth swells and I get quite severe asthma. So "mai chue rot nah khrap" for me.

My reaction is a clogged up feeling in my throat and not being able to swallow to clear my throat,,,,"mai ow choo rot" usually sorts it out.

[h90]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Arsenic also occurs naturally in many foods, for example in rice. But when we eat too much of it, we die.

Same for MSG. Proteins contain most or all of about 20 amino-acids, including glutamic acid, but Mother Nature never intended to isolate one of them artificially and dump it in huge quantities into our food, to induce people to consume more of that particular food.

Any substance, when consumed in excessive amounts, will kill us. And that includes water, sugar and salt.

MSG may not affect some lucky people, but it is toxic to many of us.

Oh nice, snuck this one in here right before I could post mine.

With any substance you can generally do a self test to see how it affects you. Just track how you feel at set times after eating the substance. I did this 2 years ago for body building after reading the 4 Hour Body. I put 15 pounds of muscle on in just 6 weeks, which was a record for me by +10 pounds. Anyways a big component of what i did was tracking everything I ate and measured how it affected my performance in the gym later on.

I'm going to try the same for MSG for one week. Anyone in Chiang Mai interested in joining this experiment?

That would only work if your wife cooks several things with and without MSG. She numbers them and write down which number has MSG and which not. All will be deep frozen.

Than you eat, write down if you have effects and the number of the dish.

After all is eaten finish you make the statistics.

Not scientific, but as close as you can get.....

[ukrules]

ukrules, on 25 Sept 2014 - 03:16, said:

It's funny what passes for an allergic reaction these days. There's a whole industry popping up around this kind of thing.

What you're describing is at best described as mildly irritating, it may or may not be related to the food. You've probably been eating this substance all of your life without realising it, I know for sure it's used in a lot of western foods for a long time.

Someone I know had an allergic reaction, he stopped breathing after being given some penicillin.

See the difference ? Mildly irritating situation vs allergic reaction.

Then, Mr smarty pants, explain why hey fever (also called allergic rhinitis) is consider an allergy.

I used to get a little bit of hayfever when I lived in the UK.

Like I said - it's mildly irritating at most. I didn't take big steps to change my life and destroy all sources of pollen and go around preaching about how bad it is.

[Ulysses G.]

MSG iss in virtually ALL processed savory Western foods, often in excessive amounts: canned nuts, sausage, all manner of "luncheon meat," crackers, salad dressing, potato and corn chips, not to mention all fast food. Funny how the people who claim to have an "allergy" to it only experience flare-ups after eating in Asian restaurants...

No scientific research has ever proven the existence of so-called "MSG headache".

Most people who claim to be "allergic" to MSG are just neurotic. VERY few people actually are.

Do you work for Ajinimoto, Dr. Ulysses G.? I hope they pay you well.

No I don't. I read medical studies.

Has FDA received any adverse event reports associated with MSG?

Over the years, FDA has received reports of symptoms such as headache and nausea after eating foods containing MSG. However, we were never able to confirm that the MSG caused the reported effects.

These adverse event reports helped trigger FDA to ask the independent scientific group Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) to examine the safety of MSG in the 1990s. FASEBs report concluded that MSG is safe.

http://www.fda.gov/food/ingredientspackaginglabeling/foodadditivesingredients/ucm328728.htm

Edited September 25, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[tartempion]

Except in rare cases - where people have pre-existing neural endocrine disorders that are adversely affected - msg in food is completely natural and harmless

Bullsh*t, too much of anything food related is too much.

[GuruWilma]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Arsenic also occurs naturally in many foods, for example in rice. But when we eat too much of it, we die.

Same for MSG. Proteins contain most or all of about 20 amino-acids, including glutamic acid, but Mother Nature never intended to isolate one of them artificially and dump it in huge quantities into our food, to induce people to consume more of that particular food.

Any substance, when consumed in excessive amounts, will kill us. And that includes water, sugar and salt.

MSG may not affect some lucky people, but it is toxic to many of us.

Oh nice, snuck this one in here right before I could post mine.

With any substance you can generally do a self test to see how it affects you. Just track how you feel at set times after eating the substance. I did this 2 years ago for body building after reading the 4 Hour Body. I put 15 pounds of muscle on in just 6 weeks, which was a record for me by +10 pounds. Anyways a big component of what i did was tracking everything I ate and measured how it affected my performance in the gym later on.

I'm going to try the same for MSG for one week. Anyone in Chiang Mai interested in joining this experiment?

That would only work if your wife cooks several things with and without MSG. She numbers them and write down which number has MSG and which not. All will be deep frozen.

Than you eat, write down if you have effects and the number of the dish.

After all is eaten finish you make the statistics.

Not scientific, but as close as you can get.....

You got some of it right but its not going to work exactly like that. Its going to be one week eating a certain amount of msg, once at each meal so 3 times per day. Then each day will do some form of exercise and measure performance (best to challenge your body in some way to see if you are at your relative peak performance given what youve eaten that day). Will also watch out for things like headache and other reported side effects of msg. The following week we will repeat the same exact schedule in regards to food, exercise, and timing of eveything. Only difference is that there will be no msg this week.

Yeah its not 100% scientific, and it wont measure long term effects, but some of the short term effects can be evidence of long term problems (for example its not good if your food gives u a headache right away)

Can anyone provide any of the side effects to look out for? Any thoughts are appreciated, but anyone, especially with medical or nutrition experience would be appreciated for any advice.

[GuruWilma]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Arsenic also occurs naturally in many foods, for example in rice. But when we eat too much of it, we die.

Same for MSG. Proteins contain most or all of about 20 amino-acids, including glutamic acid, but Mother Nature never intended to isolate one of them artificially and dump it in huge quantities into our food, to induce people to consume more of that particular food.

Any substance, when consumed in excessive amounts, will kill us. And that includes water, sugar and salt.

MSG may not affect some lucky people, but it is toxic to many of us.

Oh nice, snuck this one in here right before I could post mine.

With any substance you can generally do a self test to see how it affects you. Just track how you feel at set times after eating the substance. I did this 2 years ago for body building after reading the 4 Hour Body. I put 15 pounds of muscle on in just 6 weeks, which was a record for me by +10 pounds. Anyways a big component of what i did was tracking everything I ate and measured how it affected my performance in the gym later on.

I'm going to try the same for MSG for one week. Anyone in Chiang Mai interested in joining this experiment?

That would only work if your wife cooks several things with and without MSG. She numbers them and write down which number has MSG and which not. All will be deep frozen.

Than you eat, write down if you have effects and the number of the dish.

After all is eaten finish you make the statistics.

Not scientific, but as close as you can get.....

[h90]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Arsenic also occurs naturally in many foods, for example in rice. But when we eat too much of it, we die.

Same for MSG. Proteins contain most or all of about 20 amino-acids, including glutamic acid, but Mother Nature never intended to isolate one of them artificially and dump it in huge quantities into our food, to induce people to consume more of that particular food.

Any substance, when consumed in excessive amounts, will kill us. And that includes water, sugar and salt.

MSG may not affect some lucky people, but it is toxic to many of us.

Oh nice, snuck this one in here right before I could post mine.

With any substance you can generally do a self test to see how it affects you. Just track how you feel at set times after eating the substance. I did this 2 years ago for body building after reading the 4 Hour Body. I put 15 pounds of muscle on in just 6 weeks, which was a record for me by +10 pounds. Anyways a big component of what i did was tracking everything I ate and measured how it affected my performance in the gym later on.

I'm going to try the same for MSG for one week. Anyone in Chiang Mai interested in joining this experiment?

That would only work if your wife cooks several things with and without MSG. She numbers them and write down which number has MSG and which not. All will be deep frozen.

Than you eat, write down if you have effects and the number of the dish.

After all is eaten finish you make the statistics.

Not scientific, but as close as you can get.....

You got some of it right but its not going to work exactly like that. Its going to be one week eating a certain amount of msg, once at each meal so 3 times per day. Then each day will do some form of exercise and measure performance (best to challenge your body in some way to see if you are at your relative peak performance given what youve eaten that day). Will also watch out for things like headache and other reported side effects of msg. The following week we will repeat the same exact schedule in regards to food, exercise, and timing of eveything. Only difference is that there will be no msg this week.

Yeah its not 100% scientific, and it wont measure long term effects, but some of the short term effects can be evidence of long term problems (for example its not good if your food gives u a headache right away)

Can anyone provide any of the side effects to look out for? Any thoughts are appreciated, but anyone, especially with medical or nutrition experience would be appreciated for any advice.

yes that will work well for training. And you can repeat it several times to exclude other things.

But, the big but: If you think MSG has a terrible effect on you, you'll feel worse even there is no reason. So you shouldn't know yourself after it is too late. For example making 100 packs of salt and 100 packs of salt + MSG. You use 1 pack each for your food. Say 2 weeks the MSG packs, 2 weeks the non MSG, but you don't know yourself which 2 weeks were with MSG.

Lets say red packs and blue packs. Only your GF tells you afterwards which contained the MSG.

Else you have a Placebo effect. Works very well. Give someone with headache a pill that tastes terrible and warn him that under no circumstances he can eat more than 2 pills as they are so strong that a third would cause him some serious liver damage. In most cases it will cure the headache, even there is nothing inside the pill.

Homeopathic works that way.

[GuruWilma]

Thanks H90 thats a good idea. Actually i just remembered i have empty capsules so i can fill half with msg and half with flour and then swallow so i wont get any flavor. Im getting one of my old weight lifting data speadsheets and adapting it for this experiment. If you want to join the experiment please like this post and ill send you a spreadsheet

[MediaWatcher]

ukrules, on 25 Sept 2014 - 19:18, said:

MediaWatcher, on 25 Sept 2014 - 14:51, said:

ukrules, on 25 Sept 2014 - 03:16, said:ukrules, on 25 Sept 2014 - 03:16, said:

It's funny what passes for an allergic reaction these days. There's a whole industry popping up around this kind of thing.

What you're describing is at best described as mildly irritating, it may or may not be related to the food. You've probably been eating this substance all of your life without realising it, I know for sure it's used in a lot of western foods for a long time.

Someone I know had an allergic reaction, he stopped breathing after being given some penicillin.

See the difference ? Mildly irritating situation vs allergic reaction.

Then, Mr smarty pants, explain why hey fever (also called allergic rhinitis) is consider an allergy.

I used to get a little bit of hayfever when I lived in the UK.

Like I said - it's mildly irritating at most. I didn't take big steps to change my life and destroy all sources of pollen and go around preaching about how bad it is.

You didn't answer my question.

[attrayant]

The max amount of being harmless is around 2g daily (incl ALL meals).

I was going to check your cite, then I noticed you didn't provide one.

On average, we consume about 13 grams of MSG every day, from fresh natural vegetables & protein sources. The additional MSG we ingest from prepared foods amounts to about a half gram. cite

MSG's LD50 is around 1500-1800 grams for a 100kg human. The LD50 for ordinary table salt is about 300 grams for the same individual. That means table salt is five to eight times more "toxic" than MSG.

Edited September 25, 2014 by attrayant

[attrayant]

MSG has been known and linked to Asthma related deaths in Australia.

Known and linked by whom?

To the OP, I've tried adding it to soups and stews but never noticed much of a difference so I don't bother with it any more. It's a lot like bay leaves. Add it or leave it out, makes no diff.

Edited September 25, 2014 by attrayant

[ukrules]

The max amount of being harmless is around 2g daily (incl ALL meals).

I was going to check your cite, then I noticed you didn't provide one.

On average, we consume about 13 grams of MSG every day, from fresh natural vegetables & protein sources. The additional MSG we ingest from prepared foods amounts to about a half gram. cite

MSG's LD50 is around 1500-1800 grams for a 100kg human. The LD50 for ordinary table salt is about 300 grams for the same individual. That means table salt is five to eight times more "toxic" than MSG.

It looks like the modern day hypochondriacs have finally found something to blame for their ailments despite evidence to the contrary.

I expect someone will be along shortly to point out some arbitrary difference between natural and synthetic substances.

[hawker9000]

Always plenty of people around with a load (and I mean a load...) of "research data" and plenty of schemes for getting government to do more & more to protect us from ourselves, and of course from those evil corporations (well, here I guess the Mom & Pops, too) serving us up nothing but poisons, toxins & contaminants. MSG - case in point. BUT, people SHOULD have a right to be accurately informed and to be able to choose, and there should be civil penalties for supplying misleading or false information to customers & buyers. After that, it's on the individual. I'm not interested in bureaucratic make-work involvement and crazy bans on everything someone somewhere says they're "allergic" to.

[Kasset Tak]

For me who is not a scientist I can only decide for myself using my own experiences and judgement.

1.My mother have rheumatis, she have had problems for more than 20 years and I released almost 15 years ago that her condition got worse when she cooked adding MSG or ate Chinese or Thai food.

2. Just because it occur naturally in nature doesn't mean that the substance as a refined products is good for you, just look at fat, sugar, vitamins even cocaine and morphine...

Fat you can even break down to fat acids where some are good and some are bad.

3. I don't know the amount of MSG needed before it's toxic for us and I also don't know how long time it takes to get it out of our body. The body accumulate some substances like mercury and arsenic in the body, I don't know how it is about MSG.

And so on...

I don't use the pure MSG but I don't exclude products containing it like soy sauce. For me it's also about making the food taste great without adding any flavor enhancer as it means that I'm a better chef than someone who need to add alot of MSG to make their food taste good!

Some of my Thai friends complained that I did not add MSG while cooking but when they sat down and started eating they told me that is was among the best food they ever eaten!

So in the end I believe that we can eat everything but we need to have a balance. And if anyone add a spoon of MSG to a plate of food that I cooked I would throw them out! But of course I would do the same if anyone added ketchup to my pasta Bolognese too!!!

[attrayant]

[Thongkorn]

The wife uses it, i have asked her many times not to But she does, so i just keep floating air biscuits. In laymens terms it make me fart.

Does that mean you are a professional "farter"?

No i have to give a fartnights notice.

[roamer]

Last year a group of us went through loads of aggravation finding a restaurant to eat in as one of our number insisted he was highly allergic to even the slightest trace of MSG in his food. Came down to breakfast next day and there he was spreading Vegemite all over his toast, his bluster when he was informed that Vegemite had about the highest concentration of any processed food was a wonder to behold.

[attrayant]

Yes - those of you who are "allergic" to MSG should stay well away from these foods:

Prepared foods containing MSG:

Source

[h90]

Last year a group of us went through loads of aggravation finding a restaurant to eat in as one of our number insisted he was highly allergic to even the slightest trace of MSG in his food. Came down to breakfast next day and there he was spreading Vegemite all over his toast, his bluster when he was informed that Vegemite had about the highest concentration of any processed food was a wonder to behold.

Maybe you could sale him an homeopathic medication against his allergy

[GuruWilma]

Yes - those of you who are "allergic" to MSG should stay well away from these foods:

Prepared foods containing MSG:

Source

Is glutamate the same as monosodium glutamate? I know with chemical compounds a small change can change the substance completely. Take hydrogen dioxide (water) and hydrogen peroxide (that rubbing alcohol you use to clean wounds)

[GuruWilma]

It's also important to note how studies are done. For example, if celery is grown in lead rich soil then the celery leaves will have high concentrations of lead. If fish is caught from polluted waters then it will have high mercury concentrations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2237396

So here is another question to forum viewers: Can peas grown in a certain type of soil contain a certain amount of msg, and peas grown in a different type of soil contain a significantly different amount of msg?

[h90]

It's also important to note how studies are done. For example, if celery is grown in lead rich soil then the celery leaves will have high concentrations of lead. If fish is caught from polluted waters then it will have high mercury concentrations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2237396

So here is another question to forum viewers: Can peas grown in a certain type of soil contain a certain amount of msg, and peas grown in a different type of soil contain a significantly different amount of msg?

Glutamate is a normal and natural Amino Acid. The Monosodium glutamate is just the salt of it. So my uneducated guess is that within the same kind of peas the content will depend on their protein content. So it is extremely unlikely that someone is allergic to small amounts of it (because you would be allergic against yourself and almost any food).

But I can imagine that there are some effects if you eat high unnatural doses. Just thinking of sugar or salt....harmless but 0.25kg table salt can kill you.

So I doubt all these allergic to small amounts are true. But I can believe that someone get some effects if eating spoons full of it.....

[attrayant]

Is glutamate the same as monosodium glutamate?

From the US FDA:

Whats the difference between MSG and glutamate in food?

The glutamate in MSG is chemically indistinguishable from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way.

Now this is not to say that all food additives are completely 100% free from side effects. High levels of any kind of sodium compounds are suspected of aggravating (but not necessarily causing) high blood pressure conditions. If that's a problem for anyone, then cut back on ordinary table salt and processed foods that are high in salt before you worry about the comparatively tiny amounts of MSG in food. So as with anything we eat or drink (including water), moderation is the key.

Can peas grown in a certain type of soil contain a certain amount of msg, and peas grown in a different type of soil contain a significantly different amount of msg?

Amino acids are indirectly tied to soil chemistry. As long as the soil is fertile enough for the plant to grow normally and not be underdeveloped (meaning the soil has sufficient levels of nitrogen and ammonia), healthy plants will product all of the amino acids they need. If amino acid synthesis is low due to poor soil chemistry, then most likely the plant will not be healthy enough to bring to market.

[h90]

Is glutamate the same as monosodium glutamate?

From the US FDA:

Whats the difference between MSG and glutamate in food?

The glutamate in MSG is chemically indistinguishable from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way.

Now this is not to say that all food additives are completely 100% free from side effects. High levels of any kind of sodium compounds are suspected of aggravating (but not necessarily causing) high blood pressure conditions. If that's a problem for anyone, then cut back on ordinary table salt and processed foods that are high in salt before you worry about the comparatively tiny amounts of MSG in food. So as with anything we eat or drink (including water), moderation is the key.

Can peas grown in a certain type of soil contain a certain amount of msg, and peas grown in a different type of soil contain a significantly different amount of msg?

Amino acids are indirectly tied to soil chemistry. As long as the soil is fertile enough for the plant to grow normally and not be underdeveloped (meaning the soil has sufficient levels of nitrogen and ammonia), healthy plants will product all of the amino acids they need. If amino acid synthesis is low due to poor soil chemistry, then most likely the plant will not be healthy enough to bring to market.

tiny amount: To add one spoon full (spoon not teaspoon) to 1 serving of soup that already contains some MSG as more than what a bodybuilder adds on a Amino Acid.

And that does not consider the food after the soup.

[macca46]

I believe that in the Western World we have been eating it for a long time with out knowing it you look at labeling and what is called a food enhanser might read ( M23? example only) it could be msg I have only been living here for eight months now and i think I eat it every second night and it does worry me, I guess if some Guru said drinking bottled water was bad for your health what would drink then???????

[attrayant]

tiny amount: To add one spoon full (spoon not teaspoon) to 1 serving of soup that already contains some MSG as more than what a bodybuilder adds on a Amino Acid.

And that does not consider the food after the soup.

I've never seen a cook add that much. A few dashes at most (it's usually in a shaker in the kitchen) or a half teaspoon for a big stock pot. If they are adding that much, I'd say they just don't know how to cook.