Will ISIS brutality backfire?

[Steely Dan]

This is what ISIS has inspired -- so yes ... as this kind of crazed brutality (link below) spreads because mentally unbalanced imitators want to emulate their spiritual leaders and heroes ... you can bet the American public will react. And Muslims in general will take the heat for this ... because once again this outrage will not even be commented upon by the leaderless so called 'moderate Muslims'....

Gruesome new details have been revealed regarding a woman murdered in Moore, Oklahoma, Thursday. According to local outlets, she was beheaded by a man who was reportedly in the process of converting to Islam.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/26/report-gruesome-beheading-detail-revealed-in-oklahoma-food-distribution-plant-murder/

But it has nothing to do with Islam, nor do ISIS, or at least I predict that will be the media response. For ISIS to truly backfire it will need political correctness to be junked. Such news items are a good litmus test for that happening or not.

[simple1]

So called guerrilla forces have been defeated militarily, but governments "lost the war" due to domestic political pressures. Where this was not the case was with the British and Commonwealth forces anti-communist campaign in Malaya and in Kenyan Mau Mau uprising. I assume there are other examples.

In response to a post above, the total deaths attributed to militant / insurgent attacks to date (around 3,000) in the deep South conflict in Thailand; therefore do not exceed total US and allied deaths from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In today’s news its mentioned that al Nusra, the most effective urban warfare fighters against Assad forces within Syria, have been attacked by air, leaving open the possibility of them putting aside their differences with IS and joining forces.

With IS there is no flexability to negotiate a political solution in parrallel to use of force. Currently looks like a long and bloody campaign to get rid of them wherever they and their sympathisers are located.

Total deaths in Thailand from Muslim terrorist attacks since 2000: 5,352 killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency

Total Deaths in the USA from Muslim terrorist attacks (almost all 9/11.) 3,000 killed.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm

Deaths, combat troops, Afghanistan War 2001–present 1,742

Deaths, combat troops, Iraq War 2003–2011 3,527

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

So anyway you shake it, playing nice has not kept Thailand safe from terrorists. It has had more killed by terrorist than the US has at home, or than the US has in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.

Playing nice is not the answer, even though playing hardball is tough too.

Kind of off topic:

Ok, my mistake I was taking total deaths from 2004, here is a breakdown from last year. The great majority of deaths are civilians, the Thai media reports have great difficulty in identifying whether most of the deaths are caused by actual insurgent activity or in reality gang killings, settling business / political disputes the Thai way. I guess we will never know the truth of the matter. Alternatively, more than half of the civilian deaths are Muslims, so the insurgents must be killing a hell of lot of informers or those openly not supporting them, such as a few Imams.

Don't know where you got the 'playing nice' idea from regards Thai counter insurgency, inefficient maybe, but playing nice, definately not.

EDIT:

Can't insert the graphic. In summary 3,380 deaths from 2004 to early 2013, of which 2,316 were civilians. There will be differing figures, but sufficient to paint the picture.

Edited September 27, 2014 by simple1

[Albertosez]

I think everything will backfire in one way or another - but when there is only so much provocation anyone can ignore - isn't there ?

Talking is fine with civilized people - but what do you do with the rest ?

[JDGRUEN]

This is what ISIS has inspired -- so yes ... as this kind of crazed brutality (link below) spreads because mentally unbalanced imitators want to emulate their spiritual leaders and heroes ... you can bet the American public will react. And Muslims in general will take the heat for this ... because once again this outrage will not even be commented upon by the leaderless so called 'moderate Muslims'....

Gruesome new details have been revealed regarding a woman murdered in Moore, Oklahoma, Thursday. According to local outlets, she was beheaded by a man who was reportedly in the process of converting to Islam.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/26/report-gruesome-beheading-detail-revealed-in-oklahoma-food-distribution-plant-murder/

But it has nothing to do with Islam, nor do ISIS, or at least I predict that will be the media response. For ISIS to truly backfire it will need political correctness to be junked. Such news items are a good litmus test for that happening or not.

Well my friend Steely Dan ... judging from the much in the news ISIS beheadings which have been headlining the U.S. Newspapers and on line social media... it is hard not to think that this incident was directly inspired by ISIS atrocities and that will be what the American people think - despite the biased lying news media... This new Islamic convert or convert undergoing conversion may have been a nut case - but that fits right in and I refuse to take the narrative of Traitor Kerry that this was just 'workplace' violence ... it was direct mimicry of ISIS beheadings - done even more crudely. The American public is way ahead of the propagandist media and the outrage is spreading beyond anything I have witnessed since the Benghazi fiasco and top level cover up ... maybe even a greater outrage since it places fear in the hearts of everyday Americans... ISIS is made up of medieval Neanderthals and have no real understanding of the degree of outrage and the consequences ... that are now as we speak - raining down on the ISIS Rambo wannabees..

[F430murci]

Waking up to a beautiful, peaceful morning with a great view out my bedroom window and ready to enjoy another day in paradise, confident that I will be safe thought out the day and can enjoy a wonderful, safe and relaxing weekend with my family and friends. Have so many choices on food, entertainment and surrounded by happy, good hard working people. No complaints.

Why is this? Smart people in the US armed with full facts and knowledge (unlike those on here) make tough decisions everyday to provide the life I and Americans enjoy everyday. For that I am grateful and while I may not always agree on the means or the timing if the means, I agree on the ends.

Lol at those on here that follow every single thread arguably about US merely so you can bash the US. Incredibly sad to live with so much negativity or frustration.

All you are trying to do here is to spin this thread into a US bashing accusatory dungheap.

What you are saying is that if people dare to oppose the US and its allies attempting to bomb Muslims back to the stoneage, that we are anti American?

Grow the F up. The thread is asking for opinion and we are giving it.

The real facts are that you and a few other posters (thankfully the minority) are obviously US citizens who have swallowed up all the koolaid in gallons and are reacting the way your backward thinking administration intend. You couldn't get more sheep like if you tried.

Nice that you can look at your beautiful safe life because the US (and partners) kill and maim the children, wives husbands of others, but at least it is not your own..... eh?

99% of the people these thugs are hiding behind were just going about their daily lives until these murderers rolled in. They suffer mass daily executions, rape, plundering in the name of the Islamic State... they are unarmed and vulnerable as hell and as the other poster stated.. he would care less if the whole area was turned into a car park.... That is a pretty disturbing mindset and in my opinion even worse than the ISIS combatant can come up with.

If you think for one minute that if the US doesn't bomb and kill thousands of innocents that I am going to one day open my door to an arab with an AK47 then you are seriously deluded.... Obama would be very proud of you, you have swallowed his crap hook, line and sinker.

The US has failed EVERYWHERE it has gone and left the situation worse.

Afgaistan

Iraq

Libya

To name a more recent few.

The US has created a monster and they are running around chasing their tales trying to make it right again.... The US will be in a constant state of war for the next 100 years and still won't achieve a damn thing.

It is the US and UK administrations that have made it unsafe for non muslims.

A perfect example and illustration of the problem. Objective v. Subjective. Those driven by emotion and inner frustreration v. Those driven by facts, reason and common sense.

People living in desparate conditions and who have encountered personal failure tend to look outward for the blame rather than accept personal responsibility for their own failures and the shitty situation in which they live. What leads to civil war and inner conflicts in Middle East and Africa is internal failures, poverty, hunger, oppression and general shitty living conditions for the greater masses. Libya was in civil war before UN no fly zone and ultimate air strikes. Mass genocide by Sadam and inner conflict was rampant in Iraq and had Sadam would still be in power today, health permitting, had he not gone into Kuwait, lobbed Scuds at Israel and been viewed as a potential threat on a larger scale.

These countries are ripe with natural resources, yet general population lives in fear, oppression, poverty and they turn to Islam and look for outward blame that is driven by frustration related to their own failures.

Sadly, human nature seems to spur envy, jealousy and hate in those that struggle against those that have it well.

Neither US nor our troops want conflict or like any if this. It is a balancing of many factors that leads to very difficult decisions as to what is best for US in long term.

[F430murci]

Waking up to a beautiful, peaceful morning with a great view out my bedroom window and ready to enjoy another day in paradise, confident that I will be safe thought out the day and can enjoy a wonderful, safe and relaxing weekend with my family and friends. Have so many choices on food, entertainment and surrounded by happy, good hard working people. No complaints.

Why is this? Smart people in the US armed with full facts and knowledge (unlike those on here) make tough decisions everyday to provide the life I and Americans enjoy everyday. For that I am grateful and while I may not always agree on the means or the timing if the means, I agree on the ends.

Lol at those on here that follow every single thread arguably about US merely so you can bash the US. Incredibly sad to live with so much negativity or frustration.

Do you really believe that the quality of life you have in Thailand is because of the actions of the US Govt over the years ?

Those of us who can look from outside are more able to see the trouble caused by the failed intervention policies one of which has with little doubt brought on the trouble we now see in Iraq.

America has done some good things for the world but trying to push its version of Govt on to countries and people who don't want it is not one of them.

If you want to call looking at the big picture with realism and seeing where fault lies bashing then that's up to you.

Have a nice weekend, I know I will, free of frustration.

You too! Looking forward to a weekend of football and celebrating my 3 year old's birthday today.

I live in US. I only spend 30 days a year in Thailand to spend time with my in-laws from Russia there once a year. Much better than traveling and spending time in Novosibirisk.

[Seastallion]

Just to lighten the mood.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/429256_363067520389374_284782731_n.jpg?oh=38903f9ddff74c245795240b952abde0&oe=54CB29BE&__gda__=1418195628_f02f5c1fcc0d52584ad28df5a6bf4601

[ABCer]

F430murci, if you do not mind, what are your wife's and your in-laws views on the issues of brutality, Religious and political extremism and Islam?

You have perfect right not to answer this question. But if you do - do not put your ideas into their minds, - ask them.

The reason I am curious is that you mentioned they are from Russia. I believe in some future Russia will be our Ally in this war on Islam.

Ask them whether the Western world in their opinion

* should be more liberal, correct, understanding, apply their tolerance, laws of the land;

* should go after the Militants only wherever they are found;

* should eradicate the base of radicalism by forbidding Islam and expulsion of all Muslims as breeding grounds for future radicalism.

As to many others posting here on TV - unless the West changes the rules of engagement, the nature of this war forced on us - we are losing.

We are losing not because we are weaker, but because they are smarter.

Generally speaking no bombs, rockets or air raids can kill an ideology. The idea will survive no matter what.

By offering to kill their women and children they are turning our strength into weakness. These fanatics are not afraid to die.

They are using the 'fifth column' among us to their advantage - the Good, Peaceful, Innocent Muslims and all shades of our own Liberals.

And they renew their ranks by brainwashing our own citizens bred, educated, clothed and fed by us with our own money.

Like it or not, politically correct or not, possible in today's climate or not - at the end of day we will have to segregate them.

This segregation will draw the borderline between us and them.

Than, and only than the nature of the war will change. And the war becomes the one they cannot win. Anything else and we lose.

[F430murci]

F430murci, if you do not mind, what are your wife's and your in-laws views on the issues of brutality, Religious and political extremism and Islam?

You have perfect right not to answer this question. But if you do - do not put your ideas into their minds, - ask them.

The reason I am curious is that you mentioned they are from Russia. I believe in some future Russia will be our Ally in this war on Islam.

Ask them whether the Western world in their opinion

* should be more liberal, correct, understanding, apply their tolerance, laws of the land;

* should go after the Militants only wherever they are found;

* should eradicate the base of radicalism by forbidding Islam and expulsion of all Muslims as breeding grounds for future radicalism.

As to many others posting here on TV - unless the West changes the rules of engagement, the nature of this war forced on us - we are losing.

We are losing not because we are weaker, but because they are smarter.

Generally speaking no bombs, rockets or air raids can kill an ideology. The idea will survive no matter what.

By offering to kill their women and children they are turning our strength into weakness. These fanatics are not afraid to die.

They are using the 'fifth column' among us to their advantage - the Good, Peaceful, Innocent Muslims and all shades of our own Liberals.

And they renew their ranks by brainwashing our own citizens bred, educated, clothed and fed by us with our own money.

Like it or not, politically correct or not, possible in today's climate or not - at the end of day we will have to segregate them.

This segregation will draw the borderline between us and them.

Than, and only than the nature of the war will change. And the war becomes the one they cannot win. Anything else and we lose.

My wife is very anti war anti violence. She does not even like to harm bugs, spiders and etc.

My wife was born in 1980 so she grew up in the very difficult hyperinflation post breakup times. Putin could be the devil incarnate and commit mass germicide and people from my wife's generation will say, yes but he is good for Russia and rebuilt Russia from the ashes.

In general, what I have heard and observed, is that Russians take a much harsher and less tolerent view of Islamic terrorists than US citizens in general. Russians have had their own issues with terrorism that are not as publicized and they deal with it much more harshly than does the West.

Russian mentality is sooooo different from ours, they are programmed completely different. Russian pride runs much deeper than US or western pride. Perhaps pride has been their way of dealing with hardship over the years and instilled by government over the years.

Don't mess with mother Russia from a violence stand point. Russians are also way more accepting of their government's manner of harshly dealing with issues.

I don't know if that answers your question, but I have learned to stay out of political and internal Russian issues with my wife. Russians are way more, exponentially, sensitive and defensive about the actions of their own government toward what they view as outsiders. They certainly view Russian Muslims as outsiders.

Most of our foreign friends are Ukranian and this Russian Ukranian issue cannot even be mentioned when they are together. My wife cannot discuss it with anyone and wells up with tears when she hears news reports about it.

[ABCer]

Western countries - at some point - in order to control the Islamic radicals may have to begin to use the option of Exile. Exile is little used today but it used to be an instrument of dealing with internal enemies. Western Governments could pass laws or update old ones or just declare an Emergency... and begin to forcibly exiling Islamic radicals to any country that will take them in. This includes those who hold citizenship in that country by nature of birth or by immigration. And it could progressively increase - going down the ladder of worst to just being non violent political dissidents. This could quickly increase to thousands of people exiled each year. Meanwhile any teachings of hatred and promotion of violence towards the host country would be forbidden and Mosques cleared cleared of teaching documents extolling hated and violence and even progressively closed. It could come to Islam and practicing Islam as a Muslim would have to be outlawed...

Of course only the most dire situation and scenario would have to be taking place before governments would resort to even the use of exile... But they will likely have to consider these things if ultra Radicals like ISIS keep on the march.

The whining liberals and crazy Leftist would have a field day with protesting and demonstrating -- and creating violence to get their way -- and they may have to be added to the exile list.

Interning or displacement or exiling of people on a mass scale is not new.

It has many examples in History. It is happening today before our eyes.

It was done in many countries for many different reasons.

It was done on grounds of social, religious, national, political and ethnic difference.

Most often it was done at times of war.

Spain, France, Germany, Russia, Turkey, USA, Iran, Iraq, India, Sudan, China - to name just a few - all are not strangers to such acts.

I deliberately refuse to give concrete examples to avoid a storm of protestations.

More often than not it was cruel and unfair.

In many cases millions of people were involved.

I have no feelings of hate towards any nationality, ethnos, religion or socio-political group.

This is why I claim that ISIS brutality will backfire against all Muslims in all non-Muslim countries.

Muslim extremists want a total universal war. They are deliberately provoking it. They force it on us.

All we can do is act coldly, calculating, logical in self defence. And it will be cruel and unfair.

Because if we remain kind and fair we will lose.