NLA will be asked by NACC to impeach Ms Yingluck and other Pheu Thai ex-MPs

[mikemac]

Isn't the impeachment request premature?

This is what I understand:

1) Yingluck has not been found quilty in a court of law for negligent dereliction of duty in the rice pledge program. To date the prosecutor has declined to charge Yingluck and bring her to trial. But it seems the NACC has independent prosecurial powers to the extent that it can hire its own prosecutor to take the case to trial. Regardless, she has not been tried and\ found guilty. So is the grounds for impeachment is based on NACC allegations that she should be impeached?

2) With regards to the failed Pheu Thai Party MP's legislation to alter the way some senators are selected (proposed 100% elected vs. 50% appointed), the Supreme Court ruled that it was the PROCESS used to pass the legislation that was unconstitutional. The SC did not rule that it was the PROPOSAL itself that was unconstitutional as the 2007 Constitution provided for changes to the Constitution. Again, where is the criminality and conviction?

3) Finally, it is odd that NACC is asking that Yingluck to be impeached for attempting a change in the constitution that no longer exists. To those new TV readers, the 2007 Constitution doesn't exist because the military coup aborgated (threw out) the constitution in May 2014 and by its own perrogative created an Interim Constitution and a National Legislative Assembly in which the Senate no longer exists.

So what is the grounds for impeachment other than a political vendetta against the PTP and Yingluck?

Your post is flawed from end to end.

You start by saying 'Yingluck has not been found quilty in a court of law for negligent dereliction of duty in the rice pledge program'.

In fact she WAS convicted by the constitutional court... she was found guilty of the both charges pertaining to the rice pledging negligence claims and the attempted changing of the constitution for pretty much personal gain. The constitutional court being the highest court in the land.

The supreme court has made no such rulings, again it was the Cons Court and they ruled it unanimously as 'ILLEGAL' and in breech of the constitution.

Finally it is 100% wrong for you to assume that if the constitution is no longer valid then all past crimes that against it are all also invalid... That is not the case and should never be the case, it is merely your own opinion and a very biased one at that.

There WAS a constitution at the time the 'crimes' against it were committed. The conviction was handed down by the Cons court and everything in the hereafter is all part of the process of what happens next.

It is like saying that a man in prison for murder can not be convicted because the person he killed is no longer here.

Thank god common sense prevails and will see these political criminals face their punishment. W are all sick and tired of the rich and powerful being given a free hand to do what the hell they like. Anything else is just showing all those that follow in their footsteps can get away with it and Thailand will never move forwards until those damaging the country are brought to swift and exceedingly harsh justice.

That is my opinion.

It's funny you accuse someone else of posting something which is 'flawed from end to end' and then come up with something like this. When did the Constitutional Court 'convict' Yingluck of negligence in the rice pledging scheme? WHY would they even be ruling on that? I hadn't realized that corruption/negligence was a constitutional issue (though the court has been criticized for ruling on things that don't seem to be within its remit, so who knows... )

I also can't remember when Yingluck was 'convicted' by the Constitutional Court for trying to change the constitution for personal gain. Got a link for that? I thoiught I'd been following these things quite closely, but all this seems to have passed me by. I do remember the court ruling on the attempt to change the constitution to allow an elected Senate, last November. I just don't remember the part where Yingluck was convicted for it. There is a slight error in Rickirs post which you correctly point out, he's confused the Constitutional Court with the Supreme Court. He's also wrong about the court's ruling. They did rule that the proposal itself was unconstitutional as it was a violation of Section 68 meaning that the proposal was seen as a threat to the democratic regime of governance with the King as Head of State.

But your rebutal is more error strewn and misleading than his post. You also don't see any irony in the fact that Yingluck/PT could be punished for trying to 'overthrow' the democratic system for attempting to change the Senate from semi-elected to fully elected BY the people who HAVE torn up the constitution entirely? It'd be harder to find a clearer violation of Section 68 than what the military did on May 22nd, surely?

'W are all sick and tired of the rich and powerful being given a free hand to do what the hell they like'

Don't you realize that this is exactly the same argument some people are making about what the PDRC/military did? You seem to think that Thaksin & family are the only 'rich and powerful' people in Thailand (or not in Thailand in the case of the former)... There's no sense that all of this is very much contested in your post. It's very straightforward 'common sense'. Unfortunately, like a lot of what passes for 'common sense', it's also straightforwardly wrong.

I read your post three times Emptyset, and I still can't work out whose side you are on, if any.

But your comment regarding the Shins made me laugh -

................."You seem to think that Thaksin & family are the only 'rich and powerful' people in Thailand (or not in Thailand in the case of the former)".....................................

The reason "he" is not in Thailand is because he was so 'rich and powerful' and it caused his downfall. And I don't think he will be the last Shin in "self exile". (sorry, but that term "self exile" when used by a wanted criminal always cracks me up)

You don't see too many poor farmers hiding out in five stars hotels in the Middle East.

[Thanet]

interesting - you have a link on "other changes to go along with that, removing restrictions on family members"

as memory serves (stuggling to find a link though) the main impeachment accusation was trying to undermine the constitutional democracy with ... you know the rest.

Fully agreed that the Guy In Dubai wants to stack every department with cronies. But I don't see the new powerbrokers as doing any different. YL was prosecuted for 'Abuse of Power' for installing her own relative as national security chief. She was replacing the previous coups own crony Thawil. But the new guys have done exactly the same.

I don't see this as good guys taking over from bad. Just more of the same power grabbing by different factions. The difference is that PT party always relied on the vote - who the people vote in, they can vote out. But by diverging power to bureaucrats, courts, councils, and undoubtedly a strong Military veto/appointed ministers the people don't have the ability to vote them out of power.

With Taksin's party out of the picture, and power resting in various offices there will be the usual power grabbing in-fighting and corruption as in the past.

I don't buy into the piture that with Thaksin gone, there will only be 'good people' left and everything will be nice, democratic and clean.

Check the part on article 115.5 a.o.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/118006/thailands-nacc-ruling-why-it-happened-and-what-it-means/

With all this censorship, how on earth would you know what the result of Article 115.5 a.o will be?

You are just guessing, and speaking from a position of ignorance.

Result? The Constitutional Court ruled, NACC ruled. What you mean result ?

BTW Constitution 2007

Section 115. A person having the qualifications and having no any of the prohibitions as mentioned below has the right to be a candidate in an election or selection of senators:

(5) not being ascendants, spouse or child of a member of the House of Representatives or a person holding a political position;

As for guessing and ignorance, well did you read the article I provided I link to or is that beneath your dignity as 'know it all ' Thai ?

No offence meant, but luckily I have met enough Thai to know you're not really representative.

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

I have met enough Dutch to know that you are not representative. The Dutch value democracy, having fought tyranny in living memory

Edited September 28, 2014 by Thanet

[tbthailand]

Check the part on article 115.5 a.o.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/118006/thailands-nacc-ruling-why-it-happened-and-what-it-means/

With all this censorship, how on earth would you know what the result of Article 115.5 a.o will be?

You are just guessing, and speaking from a position of ignorance.

Result? The Constitutional Court ruled, NACC ruled. What you mean result ?

BTW Constitution 2007

Section 115. A person having the qualifications and having no any of the prohibitions as mentioned below has the right to be a candidate in an election or selection of senators:

(5) not being ascendants, spouse or child of a member of the House of Representatives or a person holding a political position;

As for guessing and ignorance, well did you read the article I provided I link to or is that beneath your dignity as 'know it all ' Thai ?

No offence meant, but luckily I have met enough Thai to know you're not really representative.

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

I have met enough Dutch to know that you are not representative. The Dutch value democracy, having fought tyranny in living memory

it is just a smoke screen to placate fools

agreed.

The Dutch value democracy

well, normally.

can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

let's keep it simple and stick with English. From posts on TV is seems that he speaks that language but still doesn't understand it.

BTW, your point about speaking Thai is very important when it comes to understanding Thais.

[rubl]

Result? The Constitutional Court ruled, NACC ruled. What you mean result ?

BTW Constitution 2007

Section 115. A person having the qualifications and having no any of the prohibitions as mentioned below has the right to be a candidate in an election or selection of senators:

(5) not being ascendants, spouse or child of a member of the House of Representatives or a person holding a political position;

As for guessing and ignorance, well did you read the article I provided I link to or is that beneath your dignity as 'know it all ' Thai ?

No offence meant, but luckily I have met enough Thai to know you're not really representative.

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

I have met enough Dutch to know that you are not representative. The Dutch value democracy, having fought tyranny in living memory

Whether or not I speak Thai is of no relevance to TVF or this particular topic.

Furthermore we were busy on indictment, not on what you think.

I have the cheek to say you are not representative of Thai I know and I now mostly middle to the lowest class only. You were defending companies who paid more than necessary, so you seem middle to higher class. That's under the assumption you're really Thai, but I'm willing to believe that.

As for Dutch, well, live in the Netherlands for 20 years as I have lived in Thailand for 20 years and get back to be.

[rubl]

it is just a smoke screen to placate fools

agreed.

The Dutch value democracy

well, normally.

can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

let's keep it simple and stick with English. From posts on TV is seems that he speaks that language but still doesn't understand it.

BTW, your point about speaking Thai is very important when it comes to understanding Thais.

With you coming with a constant stream of anti-NCPO suggestions, insinuations, half-truths and even the odd lie, I can only agree about the smokescreen of obfuscation behind which fools try to hide.

Dutch value democracy. Period. Dutch also value telling people how they may follow a roadmap to democracy. That roadmap doesn't include politicians with sticky fingers. Dutch are also pragmatic and in general have no problem accepting reality when that helps to make pushes and prods to move in the right direction.

As for speaking a language but not understanding, you seem to have lost the thread.

Still if Thai was made mandatory here on TVF I'm afraid we'd lose not only you but probably more than 80% of the members.

[Thanet]

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

I have met enough Dutch to know that you are not representative. The Dutch value democracy, having fought tyranny in living memory

it is just a smoke screen to placate fools

agreed.

The Dutch value democracy

well, normally.

can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

let's keep it simple and stick with English. From posts on TV is seems that he speaks that language but still doesn't understand it.

BTW, your point about speaking Thai is very important when it comes to understanding Thais.

Christ - you must be joking. If Rubl's been here 20 years, it's hard to believe that he's still so naive that he believes all that filtered crap that the army tells him on Friday Prayers. How gullible can people get?

I mean, the politicians on both sides here (and elsewhere) are a mainly bunch of crooks, but at least we can chuck them out in an election. History shows us that the Thai army are not one tiny bit better than the politicians when in power - worse in fact as they cover their tracks with censorship of the media and rejecting democratic principles. They are impossible to get rid of, so the scale of their corruption multiplies with no popular vote to stop them in their tracks.

Most people who have spent a significant time here know this full well, absolute power corrupting and all that, and the majority of Thais certainly know it, if you ask them.

Only Rubl doesn't seem to get it, and throws up all sorts of falsehoods to try to convince himself and others that his heroes are beyond reproach. It makes me wonder where he spends his time, but when I look at the frequency of his posts I can guess that he spends it all on TVF.

Incredible.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Thanet

[clued]

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

Whether or not I speak Thai is of no relevance to TVF or this particular topic.

Furthermore we were busy on indictment, not on what you think.

I have the cheek to say you are not representative of Thai I know and I now mostly middle to the lowest class only. You were defending companies who paid more than necessary, so you seem middle to higher class. That's under the assumption you're really Thai, but I'm willing to believe that.

It's too big a leap in believability to believe his nonsense.

[rubl]

Still dodging the question. Do you speak the language? You say that you know Thais, but can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

You quote all this junta legalese like it means something, when in actual fact it is just a smoke screen to placate fools. The army will decide who gets elected - it is their modus operandum, in case you hadn't noticed.

And you have the cheek to say that I am not a 'representative' Thai. In whose book?

I have met enough Dutch to know that you are not representative. The Dutch value democracy, having fought tyranny in living memory

it is just a smoke screen to placate fools

agreed.

The Dutch value democracy

well, normally.

can you speak to them in their mother tongue?

let's keep it simple and stick with English. From posts on TV is seems that he speaks that language but still doesn't understand it.

BTW, your point about speaking Thai is very important when it comes to understanding Thais.

Christ - you must be joking. If Rubl's been here 20 years, it's hard to believe that he's still so naive that he believes all that filtered crap that the army tells him on Friday Prayers. How gullible can people get?

I mean, the politicians on both sides here (and elsewhere) are a mainly bunch of crooks, but at least we can chuck them out in an election. History shows us that the Thai army are not one tiny bit better than the politicians when in power - worse in fact as they cover their tracks with censorship of the media and rejecting democratic principles. They are impossible to get rid of, so the scale of their corruption multiplies with no popular vote to stop them in their tracks.

Most people who have spent a significant time here know this full well, absolute power corrupting and all that, and the majority of Thais certainly know it, if you ask them.

Only Rubl doesn't seem to get it, and throws up all sorts of falsehoods to try to convince himself and others that his heroes are beyond reproach. It makes me wonder where he spends his time, but when I look at the frequency of his posts I can guess that he spends it all on TVF.

Incredible.

Sure incredible. How date I disagree with you and even come with objective remarks as if logic needs to be applied.

BTW care to point out the 'falsehoods'? I mean it's as if you accuse me of lying.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck may be impeached.

PS as for spending 'all my time' on TVF, I did notice your recent 'activation' with 500 posts in two months or so.

[Robby nz]

Who exactly suffered during Yinglucks time in power? You? Your wife? Your children? Your dog?

Yes it was an expensive experience, but nobody was suffering? Apart from the country as a whole

Ummmmm i missing something here ??

Oh yeah the "suicides" linked to this scheme.

Muppet !!!

Right, and whose fault were the suicides? Partly PT's for not getting the money before they dissolved parliament, sure. But also the PDRC and an intransigent BAAC etc. The money could've been paid if the political will was there, but the anti-government side wanted to exacerbate the farmers' condition so as to heap more pressure on the beleaguered government.

Understandable as a political strategy perhaps, cynical and exploitative as it was. We saw after the junta took power and was able to order immediate cash payments that the money was there if the political will was. Anyway, point is, if you supported the PDRC, it's rather hypocritical to call someone else a "muppet" when you supported the people that were partly responsible for the suicides you highlight. If you didn't, fair enough. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are suicides in the coming year due to the removal of the pledging scheme. Though I think the scheme was deeply flawed, I think removing it completely will likely leave some people unable to cope. But if that's the case (I hope it isn't), I wouldn't expect the hardships of the farmers to be reported a lot in the conservative press, as this time it doesn't serve their political agenda..

No you have that wrong.

The suicides and the plight of the farmers is entirely the fault of PT.

They should have made provision for payment to the farmers for the rice they knew had been pledged to the scheme before they dissolved the house.

They said before they dissolved the house that the money was available, they lied.

Yingluck promised repeatedly that the farmers would be paid, she lied for they never were paid.

The banks refused to lend money to what was left of the PT Govt (26 appointed cabinet ministers) because there was no guarantee in law that said they would be repaid.

When the military took over this changed and money was able to be raised immediately to pay to the farmers, some of these overdue payments were from up to 3 months before the house was dissolved.

The pledging scheme has disrupted the rice market to the extent that prices are now lower than they would have been if market forces had been left as a benchmark.

The reputation of Thai rice in the international market has taken a hit because of inferior product delivered during PT time in office, 2 cases in point were a shipment to the US being returned and Ivory Coast having to dump 20% of a shipment because of bad rice.

The lies told about G 2 G deals has also made some Govts shy of doing business with Thailand, however now that the previous rouges gallery has been ousted prices are starting to move up and buyers are returning to the auctions now being held.

Do you really believe that more farmers will take their lives because of the unrealistic expectations the PT Govt gave them ?

As self appointed chair of the rice policy committee Yingluck must take responsibility for all the failures.

[millwall_fan]

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Impeach. everybody was impeached de facto when the great leader had a coup and declared himself the great leader under martial law

Exactly. she has already been impeached at the end of the army's gun barrels. This is all part of the process to destroy PTP in order that that can't win the next election. The trouble is it didn't work last time and it wont work this time. The people don't want the army to continue usurping power and they don't want a non elected Legislative Assembly arrogantly passing laws. TRT, PPP, PTP what combination of the three letters will the next elected government use I wonder?