Koh Tao murder probe 85% complete: Panya

[chrisinth]

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I think it goes without saying that all of this is very, very tough for the families to take. However, I also hope that they appreciate that there are people in Thailand that also do care as well - and care deeply enough to keep the pressure on the authorities to bring the perps to justice ! It would not be easy for them to keep up any momentum on their own and from the UK - and whilst the speculation is upsetting for them, I think it is the lesser of the 2 x evils in this particular scenario. No doubt some of the evidence has been deliberately with held and other evidence poorly conveyed / translated - and this has caused some confusion - maybe deliberately so ?

I heard in one of the earliest reports that the male victim ( David ) also seemed to have been raped - but now that line has also gone quiet. If he is Gay - maybe the DNA that was found on him was not from the actual crime scene and maybe that is why that particular line has seemingly been dropped.

My own observation is that this was much more of a hate crime that a rape crime. The Photo's would support that. Without being too explicit, I am not aware that the police have said whether they found fresh semen ( DNA ) inside the female victim ? They have repeated asked for people to come forward that might have had a previous sexual liaison with the girl ( meaning in the preceding days ).....not sure if this is because they have some doubt as to how old the DNA is ?

The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death. There are many things that they haven't said that has caused so much speculation. One thing is for sure, the photo's depict a wild and gruesome crime scene that many would find very strange if the motive was only rape. Was the condom used on the handle of the Hoe to violate the girl - there is only DNA on the outside ? Someone was obviously very upset or completely out of their mind on drugs. I have heard that Thai Men can become very upset if anyone wiggles their little finger at them in a sort of " mocking manner " to suggest that they are not as big downstairs as they appear to be upstairs ? Was something said earlier in the night in the bar that could have triggered such a rage ?

The guy in the photos and CCTV IMO is the same guy - maybe the " Tattoo " was just an Henna Tattoo and he simply removed it once he knew he was in the frame ? Why cant this CCTV Video be sent for digital enhancement ? If he was caught on CCTV before 4am, why was the crime not reported until 06.30am ? What happened in between this time ?

If any of the Western guys were involved then they should be implicated by their DNA - but none found - so far.

On the other hand, whilst it does sound like a brutal / mafia style execution - why would the bodies be left on the beach ? They have enough contacts and power to seemingly arrange what ever they want on that Island. If it was the mafia, why did they not arrange a speed boat to collect the bodies and shift them to an area that they would never be found / likely ever be found ? Allowing someone to find these bodies on the beach would surely be the last thing a mafia gang would want, particularly so close to their own business interests.

There are many questions that so far remain unanswered. I hope the British Media demand the opportunity to ask all of these questions at some stage, rather than just reporting what they are told !

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

Well that would assume, she had sex with 2 Asian men, and was then killed by a single unrelated person?

Bizarre theory. Not impossible 100%, but bizarre.

You believe that is far fetched? The problem I have is that it appears everything is based upon FB, Twitter media speculation and conflicting releases from the police.

I haven't seen anywhere a timeline for the victim(s) during that evening/morning. Were they together all the time? Did they go and do their own things? I don't know.

I don't think this is out of the realms of possibility,

I have no idea of the drug habits or drink habits (if any) of the victims. Was something dropped into her/their drink earlier in the evening? Again, I don't know and in that I am not alone.

The point to my previous post was that the police departments involved need to take every eventuality into consideration otherwise there will be big parts of the picture left unaccounted for with a large possibility of someone being wrongly accused.

I understand that some of the above may offend some people, and for that I apologize, but investigation cannot be personal.

[chiang mai]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

[soalbundy]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

Thailand is safe enough if you behave like a civilized human being, all night benders, drug taking, having sex in public, being drunk and arguing with Thais just as drunk is unnecessary risk taking and is as insulting to your own country as it is to Thailand. Thais have a short fuse,one should be aware of that. I have lived here for 9 years and have been coming here for over 25 years on a regular basis, always for months at a time and usually alone, i have never ever found myself in a dangerous situation

[kkup]

I bet 100 baht no one will be charged.

[Keesters]

If there is one thing that the BIB could learn from this investigation it is "keep your mouth shut except for asking questions". The utter rubbish that these guys come out with is what is hindering progress. Everyone of them wants his picture in the papers or on television or social media. They require one decent press officer and everything should go through that person and that person only.

[peterbkk9]

85% complete? Sounds like when you download a file. 15% remaining.

This does not make any sense.

And how come they did not catch the murderers yet? 10 days ago they said they would catch them within one week.

either you have info to substantiate this or else you shut the &lt;deleted&gt; up!!!!

Catch these animals quick. They deserve a slow and painful death.

[DennisF]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

Thailand is safe enough if you behave like a civilized human being, all night benders, drug taking, having sex in public, being drunk and arguing with Thais just as drunk is unnecessary risk taking and is as insulting to your own country as it is to Thailand. Thais have a short fuse,one should be aware of that. I have lived here for 9 years and have been coming here for over 25 years on a regular basis, always for months at a time and usually alone, i have never ever found myself in a dangerous situation

Thanks for clearing that up, we were all concerned until you brought us down to earth.

So, by your statement, the young people were not acting in a "civilised" manner and therefore it is their fault.

I have been coming here for as long as you and have lived here longer.

You are wrong.

Check the statistics for murders and suicides and compare them to one of your "civilised" countries.

[soalbundy]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

Thailand is safe enough if you behave like a civilized human being, all night benders, drug taking, having sex in public, being drunk and arguing with Thais just as drunk is unnecessary risk taking and is as insulting to your own country as it is to Thailand. Thais have a short fuse,one should be aware of that. I have lived here for 9 years and have been coming here for over 25 years on a regular basis, always for months at a time and usually alone, i have never ever found myself in a dangerous situation

Thanks for clearing that up, we were all concerned until you brought us down to earth.

So, by your statement, the young people were not acting in a "civilised" manner and therefore it is their fault.

I have been coming here for as long as you and have lived here longer.

You are wrong.

Check the statistics for murders and suicides and compare them to one of your "civilised" countries.

I was referring to my own experiences, asking some young people, especially from the anglo saxon parts of the world, to act in a civilized manner is asking a bit much i will grant you. If you seek trouble, either through inexperience over exuberance or just plain lack of manners you will find it anywhere. That doesn't excuse the incompetence of the police force here but this isn't the west. One can force bad experiences by ones behaviour.

[SteveFong]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

Thailand is safe enough if you behave like a civilized human being, all night benders, drug taking, having sex in public, being drunk and arguing with Thais just as drunk is unnecessary risk taking and is as insulting to your own country as it is to Thailand. Thais have a short fuse,one should be aware of that. I have lived here for 9 years and have been coming here for over 25 years on a regular basis, always for months at a time and usually alone, i have never ever found myself in a dangerous situation

tell that to all the girls that get raped by taxi drivers in bangkok

if you were a girl, you wouldnt ever say you felt safe all the time

[soalbundy]

To all travellers young and old, boycott Thailand for a while!

If this message is put on social media maybe they'l get the message.

Thailand is safe enough if you behave like a civilized human being, all night benders, drug taking, having sex in public, being drunk and arguing with Thais just as drunk is unnecessary risk taking and is as insulting to your own country as it is to Thailand. Thais have a short fuse,one should be aware of that. I have lived here for 9 years and have been coming here for over 25 years on a regular basis, always for months at a time and usually alone, i have never ever found myself in a dangerous situation

tell that to all the girls that get raped by taxi drivers in bangkok

if you were a girl, you wouldnt ever say you felt safe all the time

or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

Edited September 28, 2014 by soalbundy

[DennisF]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

[SteveFong]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

it was a 32 year old Thai female who educated me about Thailand

[boomerangutang]

200 DNA tests results due tomorrow the police say.

None will show a match. In typical Thai fashion, they're barking up the wrong trees. The most important DNA tests are the ones they're not taking: ...of Mon and his brother(s) and any other men Mon is buddies with, including the cop(s).

[Fred Flinstone]

"Insidious" is the only word that can describe the treatment/statements released.

[ChiangraiTony]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

He passed the DNA tests and cleared to leave the island.

As far as I know Sean never had a DNA test.

[smokie36]

200 DNA tests results due tomorrow the police say.

None will show a match. In typical Thai fashion, they're barking up the wrong trees. The most important DNA tests are the ones they're not taking: ...of Mon and his brother(s) and any other men Mon is buddies with, including the cop(s).

Given the nature and depravity of the crimes committed it seems astonishing that these people can avoid having DNA testing.

Disgraceful whether they are innocent or not.

[DennisF]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

He passed the DNA tests and cleared to leave the island.

As far as I know Sean never had a DNA test.

The BiB did report at one time that he had been cleared by DNA not matching, sorry, cant find the link.

[IAMSOBAD]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

Ask the poor girl raped going from the airport to her hotel last month in Phuket.

Did she deserve being raped by a Thai taxi driver high on yaba?

What happened to him?

I know she is now destroyed for life. He's probably still driving for the mob.

Edited September 28, 2014 by IAMSOBAD

[DennisF]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

Ask the poor girl raped going from the airport to her hotel last month in Phuket.

Did she deserve being raped by a Thai taxi driver high on yaba?

What happened to him?

I know she is now destroyed for life. He's probably still driving for the mob.

And the girl in Bangkok last week who was moved to a "nice" hotel to keep quiet after being raped by a taxi driver...

and the girl in Phuket this week raped by a Thai man..

and.......

[MJP]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

Ask the poor girl raped going from the airport to her hotel last month in Phuket.

Did she deserve being raped by a Thai taxi driver high on yaba?

What happened to him?

I know she is now destroyed for life. He's probably still driving for the mob.

And the girl in Bangkok last week who was moved to a "nice" hotel to keep quiet after being raped by a taxi driver...

and the girl in Phuket this week raped by a Thai man..

and.......

Word is out to scumbags they can rape and kill tourists and get away with it.

[jakobvarming]

Yesterday they were complaining that foreigners were hindering their investigation and making things hard for them, what happened in the last 24 hours?

But those damn foreigners had the audacity to become murder victims on their lovely island, so of course it's the foreigners' fault.

[Wilsonandson]

Quote: or to the 11 year old BOY who was raped in broad daylight a few days ago on an English street

This has no relevance to this topic other than the fact it WAS actually REPORTED

In this country rapes of foreigners are usually swept under the carpet so as not to affect tourism.

It is a FACT that no woman, Thai, farang or otherwise is safe on the streets at night OR in a taxi in Thailand.

My own little darling would NEVER, under any circumstances, contemplate getting in a taxi alone at night.

Being Thai she is fully aware of the dangers here.

Ask the poor girl raped going from the airport to her hotel last month in Phuket.

Did she deserve being raped by a Thai taxi driver high on yaba?

What happened to him?

I know she is now destroyed for life. He's probably still driving for the mob.

And the girl in Bangkok last week who was moved to a "nice" hotel to keep quiet after being raped by a taxi driver...

and the girl in Phuket this week raped by a Thai man..

and.......

Word is out to scumbags they can rape and kill tourists and get away with it.

Your words have been read and IMO tomorrow is the day when the police will solve the KO tao murders as all DNA results will be in by then according to the police in charge of this murder case.

[wilcopops]

Anybody know what today's update on the percentage is?

[Wilsonandson]

Anybody know what today's update on the percentage is?

100 % Tomorrow

[IAMSOBAD]

Anybody know what today's update on the percentage is?

Probably down to 65% until it just goes to ZERO soon.

[Wilsonandson]

We're talking about the KO tao murders on this thread, cheers

[xray]

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

There have been reports that claim rape and others that claim no rape. I believe I read in an online news report that DNA of two Asian men found in the female victim matched DNA on a cigarette butt found at the scene.

A recent report (one day ago) in the Daily Mail (found online) quotes a Thai police officer as stating that rape was the motive for the attack.

Edited September 28, 2014 by xray

[xray]

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

There have been reports that claim rape and others that claim no rape. I believe I read in an online news report that DNA of two Asian men found in the female victim matched DNA on a cigarette butt found at the scene.

A recent report (one day ago) in the Daily Mail (found online) quotes a Thai police officer as stating that rape was the motive for the attack.

This report appeared some days ago.

http://www.mirror.co.uk:80/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-killers-brit-4281344

"Police are now believed to be concentrating on hunting down the men after DNA discovered on Hannah Witheridge's body matched DNA on a nearby cigarette butt.

Police chief Kiattipong Khaosamang today revealed that the cigarette was discovered about 50 metres from the scene in Koh Tao where Miss Witheridge and David Miller were killed."

Edited September 28, 2014 by xray

[boomerangutang]

Anybody know what today's update on the percentage is?

100 % Tomorrow

...and the Pope is a drag queen.

[englishoak]

So a rape in Phuket and a murder in Koh Samet last day or so...... these Islands do seem to have a common denominator.

But its safe............