Pub life

[kopiosatu]

Hi guys, I have no idea where to rant so I decided to come here and hopefully get some advice.

I'm from Singapore and my friend from SG convinced me to open a pub at Pai. The original idea was to sell beer and stuff, so I put in 10K SGD to get it done.

Annual rental paid, renovation about 70% done when I went there for 2 weeks to monitor progress.

During my 2 weeks there, I noticed a few things when I was there and it was blindingly obvious. Backpackers are not going to come to my pub when they can go to walking street.

Even I wouldn't come to my pub and rather go to walking street. So a change in strategy was needed, I decided to head down the premium liquor route. At least give someone a reason to come to my joint.

Unfortunately my friend disagrees. He even refuses to stock up on Singha or Leo, he only wanted to serve Chang. I had to keep insisting on Leo and guess what? My Leo cleared way before his Chang.

Here are a list of things he did (or didn't do) when I went back to Singapore :

1) Didn't stock up on small bottles of Leo, customers had to walk out because they didn't want the big one.

2) Didn't do a single bit of marketing. And when he did, it was for the tourist map and he gave them my flyer design to put in that tiny little square (he doesn't value proper advertising). He says its too small to be seen anyway, no need to resign the layout.

3) Took 2-3 weeks to start putting the lights up around the pub. Didn't do it while I was there personally.

He tells me to relax, I am in Pai, slow down. I can relax once everything is done. He fails to understand that relaxing comes at the end, not in the beginning where you are supposed to work hard, work properly, get things settled so that you can relax.

He wanted to just open the pub and wait for walk in customers at a location where people have no reason to walk in. The only customers we've had are his friends and they tell me the same thing, this plan isn't going to work with his concept.

He wants quantity over quality and he can't even answer my question "Tell me why would the customers at walking street come here if you serve the same thing as over there?"

Now he is pissed with me, saying that I don't know Pai, he has been living there for 2 years and I come in and pretend to know everything. Honestly he has lived there for 2 years and doesn't even speak thai properly, whereas I have been going to BKK and Phetchabun for years and I can speak thai way better than him, he is doubting that I don't know the thai mentality. I understand that thais work slow. But he as a singaporean takes 3 to 4 days just to make an enquiry.

The stupid thing is that I paid 100% for the whole place, he didn't come out a cent. I worry when I'm not around, who is going to run my place properly. *stressed*

[pgrahmm]

You've picked one of the most cliquish towns in LOS to put a bar & it sounds like your buddy has one clique - not an open draw for locals.....if you are on a side street traffic is almost none.....the locals are mostly dead enders as well the farangs that "stay" there.....you're going to have to do something that will draw or stand out.....failing that you need to do your own PR about town - sounds like a tough assignment - he's lazy & you're a stranger in a cliquish area.....there have been many very good places in Pai that haven't made it with OK locations.....even some of the old stand outs like Na's have slowed up and all the places to eat serve what you serve.....

Sorry but you've got a tough row to hoe.....

[kopiosatu]

*Ranting continues...

And that is what I've been telling him. We have to offer something different and give people a reason to come to us.

I did my rounds, had drinks for more than a week over there and I gathered that there are people who actually know their liquor.

I told my friend that I want to bring in single malt scotch, suntory whisky, better liquors. He shows me that "you're wrong" face.

The place is really a good place to hang out, lean back and have a good scotch. It is chill and quiet, not loud and rowdy like walking street. But he keeps disapproving.

He says I only cater to 1 in a 100. I ask him, so how are you planning to bring the 99 here? No answer.

His friend comes by even without him around and always orders a gin tonic. I ask her why she keeps ordering that, she says she knows her gin and I am not selling bootleg liquor when she tastes it.

I got to know 3 girls from the UK and one of them said the long island tea at walking street gave her a stomachache (she works in a premium bar in the UK so she says she is used to better liquor)

I also met a Israeli who was questioning what vodka they were serving him and it was some unknown brand.

A man at a bar was telling me he would get a Captain Morgans if they even have it at all. This tells you the standard of liquor they sell there.

My friend tells me that when you're drunk, no one can taste the difference. He obviously haven't met customers like me yet. I know what I want and I can taste what I like.

You cannot pour me a johnny walker and tell me its a laphroaig.

I have always believed in quality over quantity. If I am in a good location, I can have quantity and my service can be crap or alcohol served can be rancid.

Right now we're not in a good location so I had better serve quality and give damn good service to whoever bothers to walk in.

I even have whisky platters to share my appreciation for whisky to the uninitiated.

I have flyers, posters and a banner printed and packed. I got a facebook page ready and got listed on trip advisor.

I'm dying to go back there to clean everything up... or rather roll up my sleeves and start things moving.

I've got 2 months to bring service standards up, flyers pushed out and making every customer happy.

Problem is... what happens when I go back to Singapore for a month.

Edited October 3, 2014 by kopiosatu

[zyphodb]

The only way you'll make it work is by sacking your friend & running it yourself as you'd be very lucky to find Thai staff who would be any better than your "friend". Failing that, cut your losses & sell up before it becomes a black hole to suck your money down...

[krisb]

Mate why would you put up every cent on someone else's big idea??

Craziest op in a while.

[daveAustin]

If you're not trolling, why would you set up shop (and pay for every F thing) with a 'friend' that doesn't know his arse from his elbow, where pubs are concerned?

[mrtoad]

Get rid of your friend, doesn't sound like he contributes anything, and your fronting the cash.

Agreed, you need to do something different.

[SoiBiker]

Leo is 'premium' now?

[mrtoad]

Leo is 'premium' now?

Apparently so, maybe it is in food courts?

[ATF]

Pai is full of Scratchpackers that don't want to pay anything. It's like Khao San Road in the middle of nowhere. It's not a classy destination just a stopover on the way to Mae Hong Song.

Good luck with your venture but the only people who make money out of bars are the ones selling them.

[pigeonjake]

im not being funny,,

but not one mention of work permits,,,

is your friend thai,,

im not trying to be a spoil sport, just mentioning,,,,

be carefull not to loose more then YOUR, money

[thehelmsman]

Leo is 'premium' now?

Not until you serve on ice

[kopiosatu]

Leo is 'premium' now?

it isn't and that's the max he'll go.

amazing.

[kopiosatu]

Mate why would you put up every cent on someone else's big idea??

Craziest op in a while.

personally i like the idea. I enjoyed my stay there and if things are done properly, i wont' be rich but at least i'll have some money to get by.

the only insane thing is that i paid for it, its my joint and its controlled by someone who disagrees with my strategy and i can't do anything about it because i'm not there.

i'm flying back tomorrow and it feels like crap because i miss my gf here in singapore, yet at the same time i like thailand and i've been looking for ways to find a way to settle there.

anyway its just one year rental for me to see how it goes. if it sucks, i can just come back here and invest instead and forget my thai dream.

[kopiosatu]

im not being funny,,

but not one mention of work permits,,,

is your friend thai,,

im not trying to be a spoil sport, just mentioning,,,,

be carefull not to loose more then YOUR, money

he's not.

his wife is.

i'm just going to bite the bullet for a year and see how it goes.

[kopiosatu]

If you're not trolling, why would you set up shop (and pay for every F thing) with a 'friend' that doesn't know his arse from his elbow, where pubs are concerned?

because its supposed to be my joint and i sell anything i want.

little did i know that he would want to control everything i want to offer to people.

[kopiosatu]

Pai is full of Scratchpackers that don't want to pay anything. It's like Khao San Road in the middle of nowhere. It's not a classy destination just a stopover on the way to Mae Hong Song.

Good luck with your venture but the only people who make money out of bars are the ones selling them.

YEP. if that is not bad enough, he chose a spot which isn't even at Pai's "khao san" and expects me to sell things like at "khao san"

10 more months to go.

[RottingCorpse]

I'm a tad confused. You sunk your money into an industry you had no prior experience of (in any country), placed your trust in the judgment of your 'friend' who it seems you didn't know too well beforehand (?)

It also seems you did little or no research beforehand. The bar game is a tough one in any place let alone in Thailand for a foreigner.

I'm sure I could list the 'mistakes' you've made all day long, and no doubt many of the 'experts' here will do so.....

It sounds like the bickering has to end over unimportant matters like what brands to stock and you need to sit down and work on a strategy to:

1) get the punters in through your doors,

2) keep them in,

3) most importantly, keep them coming back.

I was close friends with a well known North London pub owner who had had (and still has) many pubs across North London since the 1960s.

His doctrine was simple. 4 things will always make a good pub

1) Cold, well kept, affordable beer

2) A friendly ambience/atmosphere in a pleasant safe environment

3) The above two supplied and maintained by friendly good looking staff.

4) A sound music policy.

If you can't do that, I'd get the hell out of dodge, cut your losses and head back to Singapore with your woman...

[kopiosatu]

I'm a tad confused. You sunk your money into an industry you had no prior experience of (in any country), placed your trust in the judgment of your 'friend' who it seems you didn't know too well beforehand (?)

It also seems you did little or no research beforehand. The bar game is a tough one in any place let alone in Thailand for a foreigner.

I'm sure I could list the 'mistakes' you've made all day long, and no doubt many of the 'experts' here will do so.....

It sounds like the bickering has to end over unimportant matters like what brands to stock and you need to sit down and work on a strategy to:

1) get the punters in through your doors,

2) keep them in,

3) most importantly, keep them coming back.

I was close friends with a well known North London pub owner who had had (and still has) many pubs across North London since the 1960s.

His doctrine was simple. 4 things will always make a good pub

1) Cold, well kept, affordable beer

2) A friendly ambience/atmosphere in a pleasant safe environment

3) The above two supplied and maintained by friendly good looking staff.

4) A sound music policy.

If you can't do that, I'd get the hell out of dodge, cut your losses and head back to Singapore with your woman...

I've asked him a very simple question.

"How are you going to get customers here?" (since he keeps saying he knows Pai, I was really open about any ideas)

Then he gets upset and says I do not understand Pai or Thailand. Goes on to say that I keep asking him that because I just want to push my ideas on to him.

He will state that it is PR and service that is important, not quality liquor.

But he still fails to see to this day that PR and service is worth nothing when there are NO customers. Who are you gonna PR to? Ghosts? The stray dogs?

I agree with your points but he hasn't answered how we are to convince people to make a detour to come to us like the popular Tapas bar over there.

And until the day he hasn't found a solution, I will have to try it my way and to offer things that the other bars do not. And he is upset that I am trying to solve the problem and says I do not know anything about Thailand.

Amazingly I have thai friends whom I communicate in thai with and he has only ONE who is exasperated with him because he's not running the business properly.

One of the things that cheesed me off was that when I wasn't around, he didn't even stock up on the beer.

A couple came in and left because he didn't have the beer they wanted - LEO, small bottle. That to me is a very very very wrong way to run a pub.

I didn't have that kind of problem when I was there.

I only sunk money into this because :

1) I get a place to stay

2) I get to sell some stuff (not looking for big money like I said, I just want to chill and relax)

3) And I'll get to stay here for a long time if it all goes well.

I guess you will know the true person when you either get married to them or do business with them.

I can also honestly say that I would have been much more happier if I did it all my myself.

Edited October 7, 2014 by kopiosatu

[thehelmsman]

Many guys think of opening a bar. The way I see it a bar has a few avenues for max profit. Having a place that has reasonably priced drinks. Well I guess I mean cheap. Guys will go to a place that sells cheap beer, has good music. A small menu with the best cheeseburgers and tacos in town together with cheap beer and good music.

[Gracas]

This is the problem when you go into business with a partner, nearly always there will be a conflict in how the business should be run.

What is the agreement with your friend, is he an equal partner or did he just assume this on his own. As you put all the money in he has nothing to lose therefore he should have no say in what you want to sell. It would appear that he is getting a free ride, you really need to take control of the business yourself.

Hope it all works out for you, good luck.

[Razzler1973]

I'd echo that Pai is a tricky place for a bar

You need to grab hold of it yourself. Firstly, you got to get more people in the door. You may not find the clientele that wants to sit in an armchair and sip brandy but it's good to offer premium spirits amongst the other stuff