Koh Tao Murders: Thai Authorities Deny 'Scapegoat' Allegation

[JohnThailandJohn]

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Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

As I stated, there is no missing footage. Police shared a video of somebody they wanted to identify walking to and from the crime scene area and guess what, this is the footage they shared with the public. Yes, the other 24 hours before and after were not shared as was the time between him going one way and the other.

Just because you want to see somebody else who appears in the video doesn't make this a coverup and doesn;t make a rich Thai family responsible for the crime. If there was something in the video police didn't want you to see they wouldn't have shared anything. Their goal was simply to identify the person they wanted to identify and that is the part of the video they shared.

Seriously, are you always like this or has this case just really wound you up for some reason? I know it has many but some of this conspiracy stuff is just so bizarre.

Edited October 5, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[intune53]

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.

Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

As I stated, there is no missing footage. Police shared a video of somebody they wanted to identify walking to and from the crime scene area and guess what, this is the footage they shared with the public. Yes, the other 24 hours before and after were not shared as was the time between him going one way and the other.

Just because you want to see somebody else who appears in the video doesn't make this a coverup and doesn;t make a rich Thai family responsible for the crime. If there was something in the video police didn't want you to see they wouldn't have shared anything. Their goal was simply to identify the person they wanted to identify and that is the part of the video they shared.

Seriously, are you always like this or has this case just really wound you up for some reason? I know it has many but some of this conspiracy stuff is just so bizarre.

So JTJ, sticking to the facts and not resorting to your attempted psychological warfare tactics.

Have you actually seen the video?

Who do you think the man a few metres ahead of the suspect is that he would not warrant any mention, although he, whoever he is, was at the crime scene at the same time as the suspect?

Do you not think it would be good to rule out this unidentified person?

The whole tangled scapegoat debate hinges on exactly the issue you have outlined:- the question of whether police have identified "the person they wanted to identify," and discounted another individual or individuals who they did not want to identify. The edited video question needs resolving. I would welcome that.

[bigjules007]

.

Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

As I stated, there is no missing footage. Police shared a video of somebody they wanted to identify walking to and from the crime scene area and guess what, this is the footage they shared with the public. Yes, the other 24 hours before and after were not shared as was the time between him going one way and the other.

Just because you want to see somebody else who appears in the video doesn't make this a coverup and doesn;t make a rich Thai family responsible for the crime. If there was something in the video police didn't want you to see they wouldn't have shared anything. Their goal was simply to identify the person they wanted to identify and that is the part of the video they shared.

Seriously, are you always like this or has this case just really wound you up for some reason? I know it has many but some of this conspiracy stuff is just so bizarre.

So JTJ, sticking to the facts and not resorting to your attempted psychological warfare tactics.

Have you actually seen the video?

Who do you think the man a few metres ahead of the suspect is that he would not warrant any mention, although he, whoever he is, was at the crime scene at the same time as the suspect?

Do you not think it would be good to rule out this unidentified person?

The whole tangled scapegoat debate hinges on exactly the issue you have outlined:- the question of whether police have identified "the person they wanted to identify," and discounted another individual or individuals who they did not want to identify. The edited video question needs resolving. I would welcome that.

As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.

They seem to know more then the Thais and seem to know what is best for Thailand, probably because they have businesses and may even have business interests with the RTP themselves ( its not uncommon)

Let's give these 2 men a fair trial and see what happens.

The thing that is absurd though is that it's not as if this is the first time the RTP have committed these kind of shenanigans but these pro RTP posters are acting like this is a one off. I think the RTP didn't forsee the level of public outrage this case would create and they may have finally bitten off more then they can chew.

[intune53]

@BIGJULES

"As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.

They seem to know more then the Thais and seem to know what is best for Thailand, probably because they have businesses and may even have business interests with the RTP themselves ( its not uncommon)
Let's give these 2 men a fair trial and see what happens.
The thing that is absurd though is that it's not as if this is the first time the RTP have committed these kind of shenanigans but these pro RTP posters are acting like this is a one off. I think the RTP didn't forsee the level of public outrage this case would create and they may have finally bitten off more then they can chew. "

It does get boring I agree but I also think it's valid to counteract very primitive tactics which primarily consist of undermining the questioning of inconsistencies and saying "nonsense" to genuine questions about who was at the crime scene, apart from the named suspects. I think it's important the many people reading this forum do not become swayed by these trolls.

Silence tends to come after any logical response to what amount to school playground bullyboy tactics.

It would be interesting to see where resolution about the cctv footage comes from, if it does.

[cowboy country]

Oh the irony!!

For the last couple of weeks the hang-them-high-brigade has been out in full force here on Thaivisa.

Now the police has "solved" the case and the very same posters come out in full force to defend the alleged culprits.

I am not saying, that the police has got it right, actually I doubt it very much, BUT IF. THat would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

only if they provide DNA tests for the family, both sons, not just for the deceased pair, but also for to lady raped 2 years before, you know where the Son had 12 stitches in his foot jumping out the window as a perp...if they provide DNA I'll go away, in the meantime focus is on the mongrels!!!!

[ffaarraanngg]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

.

Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

You can block this retarded moron, i have done so but when you quote his posts i still unfortunately see them on this thread.

Just stop humouring the fool.

[bunglebag]

It is pure speculation on my part but, I believe that Sean is under house 'protection' in Thailand ( no one has confirmed he has actually left),

or a British tabloid newspaper has him under wraps and biding their time for a sensation headline.

Of course he could be in Italy with his girlfriend but, he needs to be found..

Before his facebook page disappeared I'm pretty sure his sister wrote on there something along the lines of thanking people for their help and that Sean had now left Thailand. All too quiet on this front. If he is back in UK he should do the right thing and get the true story out in the open - go and talk to the Sun or someone like that IMO. Might not be everyone's fave newspaper (though is UK's favourite allegedly) and they are usually well up for a big story.

Can't see Mark Kent being willing to rock the boat but the Sun just might

[MJP]

It is pure speculation on my part but, I believe that Sean is under house 'protection' in Thailand ( no one has confirmed he has actually left),

or a British tabloid newspaper has him under wraps and biding their time for a sensation headline.

Of course he could be in Italy with his girlfriend but, he needs to be found..

Before his facebook page disappeared I'm pretty sure his sister wrote on there something along the lines of thanking people for their help and that Sean had now left Thailand. All too quiet on this front. If he is back in UK he should do the right thing and get the true story out in the open - go and talk to the Sun or someone like that IMO. Might not be everyone's fave newspaper (though is UK's favourite allegedly) and they are usually well up for a big story.

Can't see Mark Kent being willing to rock the boat but the Sun just might

Let's see how much the British Embassy and British Government really care about their citizens . . . the taxpayers who pay for their very existence.

Rock the boat.

[bunglebag]

Oh the irony!!

For the last couple of weeks the hang-them-high-brigade has been out in full force here on Thaivisa.

Now the police has "solved" the case and the very same posters come out in full force to defend the alleged culprits.

I am not saying, that the police has got it right, actually I doubt it very much, BUT IF. THat would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

only if they provide DNA tests for the family, both sons, not just for the deceased pair, but also for to lady raped 2 years before, you know where the Son had 12 stitches in his foot jumping out the window as a perp...if they provide DNA I'll go away, in the meantime focus is on the mongrels!!!!

It seems unlikely that anyone in Thailand will permit the DNAing of these family members. is there a name for the second son?

[intune53]

currently at 21, 496 supporters in favour of an independent investigation:-

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Please sign and share if you care.

In the comments of the petition you can see there are now many friends of David's who are signing the petition and want proper justice.

PLEASE SIGN AND SHARE.

Edited October 5, 2014 by intune53

[bunglebag]

It is pure speculation on my part but, I believe that Sean is under house 'protection' in Thailand ( no one has confirmed he has actually left),

or a British tabloid newspaper has him under wraps and biding their time for a sensation headline.

Of course he could be in Italy with his girlfriend but, he needs to be found..

Before his facebook page disappeared I'm pretty sure his sister wrote on there something along the lines of thanking people for their help and that Sean had now left Thailand. All too quiet on this front. If he is back in UK he should do the right thing and get the true story out in the open - go and talk to the Sun or someone like that IMO. Might not be everyone's fave newspaper (though is UK's favourite allegedly) and they are usually well up for a big story.

Can't see Mark Kent being willing to rock the boat but the Sun just might

Let's see how much the British Embassy and British Government really care about their citizens . . . the taxpayers who pay for their very existence.

Rock the boat.

I'd very much like to see the boat rocked, hard.

Just don't think Mr Kent is the one to do it. He is a diplomat, and a very diplomatic one at that it would seem. Possibly the govt *might* but most likely the waves may have to be built up via social media and the national papers until they are too big to be comfortably sailed upon.

[Globeman]

It is natural for the police to deny it.

Just as it is natural for many Falong's to admit the police did any thing rite.

Back home we would call it a Mexican stand off.

Except this time the police have DNA.

the sad part about the whole thing is the continues publication of it to just further the sorrow of those who knew them and loved them.

It happens all over the world. Just occasionally the media picks it up and keeps waving it in the face of the people who have lost loved ones.

What's a "falong" ?

[ffaarraanngg]

It is pure speculation on my part but, I believe that Sean is under house 'protection' in Thailand ( no one has confirmed he has actually left),

or a British tabloid newspaper has him under wraps and biding their time for a sensation headline.

Of course he could be in Italy with his girlfriend but, he needs to be found..

This is his girlfriend or possibly ex now he's been outed as a pervert, she seems to have taken all pictures of him down.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1353069323

You'd think if they were decent people his family would get them to explain the stab wounds.

[intune53]

Oh the irony!!

For the last couple of weeks the hang-them-high-brigade has been out in full force here on Thaivisa.

Now the police has "solved" the case and the very same posters come out in full force to defend the alleged culprits.

I am not saying, that the police has got it right, actually I doubt it very much, BUT IF. THat would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

only if they provide DNA tests for the family, both sons, not just for the deceased pair, but also for to lady raped 2 years before, you know where the Son had 12 stitches in his foot jumping out the window as a perp...if they provide DNA I'll go away, in the meantime focus is on the mongrels!!!!

Please can you direct me towards the source/s of this story of the son being allegedly involved in a prior violent incident?newspaper?place?something i can search on google.

Thanks.Interesting indeed.

[bigjules007]

@BIGJULES

"As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.

They seem to know more then the Thais and seem to know what is best for Thailand, probably because they have businesses and may even have business interests with the RTP themselves ( its not uncommon)

Let's give these 2 men a fair trial and see what happens.

The thing that is absurd though is that it's not as if this is the first time the RTP have committed these kind of shenanigans but these pro RTP posters are acting like this is a one off. I think the RTP didn't forsee the level of public outrage this case would create and they may have finally bitten off more then they can chew. "

It does get boring I agree but I also think it's valid to counteract very primitive tactics which primarily consist of undermining the questioning of inconsistencies and saying "nonsense" to genuine questions about who was at the crime scene, apart from the named suspects. I think it's important the many people reading this forum do not become swayed by these trolls.

Silence tends to come after any logical response to what amount to school playground bullyboy tactics.

It would be interesting to see where resolution about the cctv footage comes from, if it does.

True but how many times do I habe to re iterate a point before it sinks into there thick heads?

I've spoken about the missing minutes of footage on more than one occasion and like i said previously it just gets tedious re posting the same points so that these morons understand how flawed this investigation is.

[MJP]

In light of the international public scrutiny, you'd think the Thai police would welcome independent assessment and confirmation of their evidence. Would it not be the time to permit UK authorities to undertake DNA sampling and testing to confirm Thai police own forensic evidence?

[intune53]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

@BIGJULES

"As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.
They seem to know more then the Thais and seem to know what is best for Thailand, probably because they have businesses and may even have business interests with the RTP themselves ( its not uncommon)
Let's give these 2 men a fair trial and see what happens.
The thing that is absurd though is that it's not as if this is the first time the RTP have committed these kind of shenanigans but these pro RTP posters are acting like this is a one off. I think the RTP didn't forsee the level of public outrage this case would create and they may have finally bitten off more then they can chew. "

It does get boring I agree but I also think it's valid to counteract very primitive tactics which primarily consist of undermining the questioning of inconsistencies and saying "nonsense" to genuine questions about who was at the crime scene, apart from the named suspects. I think it's important the many people reading this forum do not become swayed by these trolls.

Silence tends to come after any logical response to what amount to school playground bullyboy tactics.
It would be interesting to see where resolution about the cctv footage comes from, if it does.

True but how many times do I habe to re iterate a point before it sinks into there thick heads?

I've spoken about the missing minutes of footage on more than one occasion and like i said previously it just gets tedious re posting the same points so that these morons understand how flawed this investigation is.

I know, me too, but if we stop talking about it it's likely it won't see the light of day in published official media. If we don't draw attention to it repeatedly-who will? Numbers matter. Not just TV members but the 100s of non members who are browsing these threads right now. Why do you think news from the police about the phone "confusion" came out in newspapers within the last 48 hours? It's because enough people online have been demanding inconsistencies are explained. Do you think they would have bothered if they thought noone was noticing? Same with the repeated mention of the cctv footage. Yes it might fade away unanswered but if it does at least we know we did the right thing.Using our voices is important when the young people tragically killed no longer have a voice.This is team work. Well done to everyone here who has the courage to keep speaking up until there are proper answers!

And there is also one particular voice missing right now. Sean.

[ffaarraanngg]

In light of the international public scrutiny, you'd think the Thai police would welcome independent assessment and confirmation of their evidence. Would it not be the time to permit UK authorities to undertake DNA sampling and testing to confirm Thai police own forensic evidence?

Youd like to think theyve already taken it, presumably the bodies have or will shortly be released by the coroner.

Seems political correctness and sensitivities towards Thailand are the priority.

Im surprised not one friend of the deceased who was there or family member has said anything regarding the investigation, they must read these websites and see its an utter shambles.

[lannarebirth]

Continue to feed the facebook and twitter feeds with the pictures of the cell phone,

it is clear, they were tortured

and they had no lawyers

this is the best evidence we have,

Where is Hannah's friend Abigail?

she must go to the press

Continue to feed the facebook and twitter feeds with the pictures of the cell phone,

The two phones were not one of the same.

it is clear, they were tortured.

How do you know? Where you there? Have you seen the scars?

and they had no lawyers

True. But only because the guys are just naive Burmese workers who did not know their rights, plus no lawyers came forward to defend them. Not the fault of the police.

this is the best evidence we have,

Where is Hannah's friend Abigail?

Good question. Abigail who? Do you believe this elusive Abigail really exists or rather she has been conjured up by trolls?

she must go to the press.

I wouldn`t hold your breath on this one.

In all fairness and so that your comments might be weighed accordingly, oughtn't you declare that your son and/or daughter are members of the RTP force?

[MJP]

In light of the international public scrutiny, you'd think the Thai police would welcome independent assessment and confirmation of their evidence. Would it not be the time to permit UK authorities to undertake DNA sampling and testing to confirm Thai police own forensic evidence?

Youd like to think theyve already taken it, presumably the bodies have or will shortly be released by the coroner.

Seems political correctness and sensitivities towards Thailand are the priority.

Im surprised not one friend of the deceased who was there or family member has said anything regarding the investigation, they must read these websites and see its an utter shambles.

I would not be surprised to see a case being made on the British side. If it is not done so in a timely manner . . . rock the boat.

Why have we not heard from any of the friends of the deceased and Sean McAnna? The silence is deafening.

[bunglebag]

In light of the international public scrutiny, you'd think the Thai police would welcome independent assessment and confirmation of their evidence. Would it not be the time to permit UK authorities to undertake DNA sampling and testing to confirm Thai police own forensic evidence?

If it corroborated their findings then you would think so wouldn't you, just to put this to bed and stop the negative publicity and growing speculation, both internationally and in Thailand itself.

I have a feeling they won't be inviting anything of the sort

[MJP]

In light of the international public scrutiny, you'd think the Thai police would welcome independent assessment and confirmation of their evidence. Would it not be the time to permit UK authorities to undertake DNA sampling and testing to confirm Thai police own forensic evidence?

If it corroborated their findings then you would think so wouldn't you, just to put this to bed and stop the negative publicity and growing speculation, both internationally and in Thailand itself.

I have a feeling they won't be inviting anything of the sort

I wonder why they won't be inviting anything of the sort?

[bigjules007]

So ive just read on Andy Halls website a tweet by him saying " Thai Police threaten to arrest anyone who interferes in the prosecution of the two Burmese suspects for the murders in Koh Tao" suppose it was only a matter of time before they suppressed the masses.

Goes on to a link at sanook.com but article is in Thai so I will have to translate and post.

[MJP]

So ive just read on Andy Halls website a tweet by him saying " Thai Police threaten to arrest anyone who interferes in the prosecution of the two Burmese suspects for the murders in Koh Tao" suppose it was only a matter of time before they suppressed the masses.

Goes on to a link at sanook.com but article is in Thai so I will have to translate and post.

Really is time for British Government involvement at the highest level. We've heard so little from the British authorities over this. Again, another deafening silence.

David Cameron, where are you on this?

[JenniferSG]

It is natural for the police to deny it.

Just as it is natural for many Falong's to admit the police did any thing rite.

Back home we would call it a Mexican stand off.

Except this time the police have DNA.

the sad part about the whole thing is the continues publication of it to just further the sorrow of those who knew them and loved them.

It happens all over the world. Just occasionally the media picks it up and keeps waving it in the face of the people who have lost loved ones.

Back home this would be thrown out of court in an instant.

Depends on your home, I guess. Ever heard of the West Memphis Three? Or looked at the web page of The Innocence Project? People in the U.S. being exonerated by DNA 30 years and more after being convicted on coerced confessions without counsel, confessions of a retarded child, etc.

[phuketandsee]

Ok, time for us to put out money where our mouths (fingers) are. Please join me in donating to Andy Hall to help ensure the accused get the defense to which they are entitled.

http://andyjhall.wordpress.com/

All who are interested in justice no matter what your views on the BIB should contribute to this. It's the least we can do. You agree JTJ, BJ right?

[greenchair]

I've heard some rumours/ gossip from a Thai friend who works on Samui so take it as you should with a pinch of salt...

This is my own interpretation of what she has said

That night a large group, a mix of Thai and farrang including David Hannah and Sean went to the beach after the bars closed to drink, smoke weed, play guitars and just the typical backpacker utopia, we've all seen the cliche a million times...

One of the Thai guys was trying to hit on Hannah but she wasn't having any of it and he started getting nasty. Thats when David stepped in to defend her and the guy having lost face attacked David, other Thais joined in and he got stabbed and killed.

Sean probably tried to break it up and thats how he got the cuts, self preservation kicked in and he ran away.

Hannah watched all this was then raped and killed.

David was stripped of clothes because they wanted it to look like he had raped Hannah and maybe someone killed him for doing it.

A lot of people thai/farang were there and witnessed this happen and the clean up and getting stories straight before the police were 'officially' called out in the morning so know who did it.

But as we can see the wall of silence tells us its people of importance on that island involved, there's a lot of intimidation going on there now and people are genuinely scared.

But same as anywhere in the world people will eventually bit by bit start to gossip and just tell there best friend and so on...

Eventually someone will leave and then talk.

Don't quite know how much you say is right. But sure that there were a group there that night. A fight broke out over something. The two Burmese may actually have raped hannah. But i don't think it was possible for them to have done it on their own. There is still at least one and maybe two murderers from that bar. All of this trouble with the burmese takes the light right away from them.

Thai police. Bring in the other criminals.

Those two Burmese weren't ever there, they probably wouldn't have been invited to this gathering i doubt they speak much Thai and English and the thais wouldn't want them there...

Sean took Hannah and David to this after the bars close/ beach party gathering, these Thais were Seans mates on the island..

I've been to few after parties like this over the years in Samui, Phangan, Krabi... always the same types, farang backpackers and the more in crowd/ cooler thai bar owners/ workers..

David was killed- stabbed and drowned for getting involved when the Thai guy was coming on strong to Hannah, he lost face.

Sean half tried to stop the fight with David took a few nicks and fled the scene, leaving Hannah there as the only outsider to the island, witness.. we know the rest

Might not be exactly how it happened but it all pretty much makes sense to me.

Yep, that sounds about right. They were partying down at the beach ,there was a fight. Got out of hand Sean and probably the other burmese ran, the rest is history

You just need to forget about the Burmese being there, they generally dont really mix with Thais on a social level.. Thais look down on them and especially the more connected, wealthy ones don't want to socialise with the Burmese help.

There is too much evidence that says they were there. I do not believe they were involved in the killings though.

[greenchair]

Reward to anybody Who can know the whereabouts of that little sneak sean

[Tazwa]

I can't take the CSI LA page too seriously any longer. I think they've run out of ideas.

Questioning how dwarves could move David's body? I saw some Thai girls lifting that kind of weight above their heads at the recent Asian Games. These guys may not be athletes but I reckon they could drag a body down sloping sand to the water.

The clincher for me is where they say that the suspect must be at least 178cm tall to be capable of striking David - are they for real?

I liked the page when I started following them over a week ago. Unfortunately, they're running out of ideas and it's getting a bit silly. Just because they've got so many Thai 'likers' and followers doesn't give it a whole lot more credibility. If you've got a Thai partner, can read Thai or are able to translate some of the comments on the page, it's worth doing. Some of the comments just prove how ignorant some people can be. I teach science back in Australia and I swear some of my 10 year old students have far more intelligence and questioning ability than many of the adult posters on that page.

I've still got an open mind and will question new evidence as it's made public but I'm still seeing people question basic things that were clarified two weeks ago like- Does anyone know if Sean left the island?

[bigjules007]

Csi latest post, the video from Nation news is now saying the village chiefs son was seen leaving the island around 30 minutes after the murders are supposed to have taken place. I think the problem is everyone knows who done it but they are all petrified in coming forward.