Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

[cnxdefyer]

Being Thai and a realist, the only way for international intervention for change would be a boycott of Koh Tao. If the international and local tourist feel this strongly about this injustice they should refrain from using this stop as a tourist destination until changes are made. We all know what drives the economy, and only money motivates action. Laws, religion, common decency is all smokes and shadows for people with money, because with that money they buy power. People can complain and say its not right, it shouldn't be right, but in the end its this way all over the world. We can play judge and lawyers for these 3 Burmese , maybe even clear them, but in the end game, what actually changed? If its a place controlled by the Mafia, the police are all on the take, the government can't control them, let them be. What's the point they'll only find some other scapegoats to hang.

[evadgib]

Anyone who thinks these Burmese Scum are innocent are as thick as too short planks and are living in cloud cuckoo land

Well done to the Thai authorities for a job well done!!!

<deleted; pissing in the wind>

Edited October 5, 2014 by evadgib

[Quack]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

What defence team? You mean the corrupt one that's foisted upon the two defendants, that are being paid to not do their jobs properly?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

How many times do we have to spell this out? Which DNA samples? Ones that have been independently witnessed from collection to result? I STRONGLY doubt this!

Do you think that the samples of semen taken from her are genuine and recorded as being so?? Don't forget this was right at the beginning of the investigation when the were trying to find who did this appalling crime ie: without the indefencible delay and assorted cockups that followed.

If so, all they have to do is get an independent agency take fresh samples for DNA analysis from the two suspects to see if the are genuinely guilty (or not). Would you be satisfied with this?

[Ve37]

They were tortured with boiling water ?? Where is the smoking gun?? JUST another rumor. I didn't see any Burmese with burn marks. How did they know they were tortured ? Did they call and tell them? I doubt it.

Yes,...currently the torture is speculation,...based on documented/photographic evidence that the Ko Tao police tortured 3 of these Myanmar Nationals friends with boiling water.

The Myanmar embassy is correctly demanding an independent review,...including the alleged DNA evidence.

Considering Occam's Razor,...it appears to me that the two Myanmar Nationals who confessed, did so, so the Myanmar National "tipster" gets the 700,000 baht reward.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Ve37

[JohnThailandJohn]

Where in the world did you get they were under five feet and even if they were 4 feet are you suggesting David was 8 feet?

Did you miss the fact they attacked him from behind and had weapon(s).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765810-koh-taos-other-little-secret-police-extortion/

Your beloved police farce!!!!

If police take money to turn a blind eye on illegal workers, can you not believe they could be involved in more sinister matters??

The link you provided certainly doesn't say this.

Are you on drugs? or are you illiterate?

I think it's best if I don't answer/ask you any more questions as you are obviously mentally impaired. goodbye

I asked a question to where it was stated they were under 5 feet tall? Did you simply (and strangely) decide to reply with something completely unrelated or are you trying to say such a statement from police exist in the link you provided?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

What defence team? You mean the corrupt one that's foisted upon the two defendants, that are being paid to not do their jobs properly?

It doesn't matter who the defence team is or where it comes from - I think that this is quite relevant to the case and might just come out in the court.

Anyway, all you knights in shining armour are going to pay for a top notch defence for these 2 framed boys, aren't you??

All of you that have donated 'to the cause' might look a little foolish if there is unquestionable evidence that they did it.

Edited October 5, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[heyexile]

There are questions that foreign media and governments will want answered. Some of these can be explained, however; some are quite difficult to answer. These questions include:

• Why were some suspects allowed to refuse DNA sampling?
• Why did the phone get turned in and then appear in the bushes behind a migrant worker's residence, and why would such a high value theft item be discarded so close to the residence?
• Why was the FBI uninvited to participate and the DNA sent to a country where Thailand has connections?
• Why were the current suspects cleared, then uncleared of suspicion?
• Will DNA collected from the bodies in England match your samples?

If they can answer these questions, all will be satisfied. Otherwise, people will call foul/blue diamond caper until Hades freezes over. This one is not going away anytime soon.

Thailand has no connections in Singapore if you are in anyway suggesting that Singapore might not have acted completely correctly. Drop that bit from your argument as it's total BS and devalues the rest of it.

SINGAPORE DNA. What makes you think that DNA samples from these 3 Burmese, after their arrests, were sent to Singapore? Link?

Their samples were tested in just a few hours by RTP forensics BK.

Those with forensic experience say that is just not possible in TH.

CHRONOLOGY:

First all DNA testing was being done by Police Forensics BK.

Then police complain they lack funds to do all the tests at B5000 a pop in BK.

Then police say they will get help from FBI.

Then police say FBI not required as sending some (not all) samples to commercial lab in Singapore for further analysis to determine skin, eye, hair colour etc. Never heard any more on that one.

Then all testing is being done in BK again, not Singapore.

Have followed this closely from Day one. Check the chronology above. It all comes from official high ranking police statements published on TV.

[draftvader]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

How many times do we have to spell this out? Which DNA samples? Ones that have been independently witnessed from collection to result? I STRONGLY doubt this!

Do you think that the samples of semen taken from her are genuine and recorded as being so?? Don't forget this was right at the beginning of the investigation when the were trying to find who did this appalling crime ie: without the indefencible delay and assorted cockups that followed.

If so, all they have to do is get an independent agency take fresh samples for DNA analysis from the two suspects to see if the are genuinely guilty (or not). Would you be satisfied with this?

Being that there is more than an elephant of doubt involved in this I would suggest that Scotland Yard forensics are allowed to come and swab the 2 Burmese lads and (just to save another journey) the family members at the AC bar. These victims are British Citizens and British forensics should be welcomed to come in and complete our own records. If they have nothing to hide we could see the RTP welcoming them at Suvarnnabhumi this week.

[yougivemebaby]

They were tortured with boiling water ?? Where is the smoking gun?? JUST another rumor. I didn't see any Burmese with burn marks. How did they know they were tortured ? Did they call and tell them? I doubt it.

Yes,...currently the torture is speculation,...based on documented/photographic evidence that the Ko Tao police tortured 3 of these Myanmar Nationals friends with boiling water.

The Myanmar embassy is correctly demanding an independent review,...including the alleged DNA evidence.

Considering Occam's Razor,...it appears to me that the two Myanmar Nationals who confessed, did so, so the Myanmar National "tipster" gets the 700,000 baht reward.

I have not seen such evidence of this boiling water torture. Please provide a link.

Thanks

[JohnThailandJohn]

There are questions that foreign media and governments will want answered. Some of these can be explained, however; some are quite difficult to answer. These questions include:

• Why were some suspects allowed to refuse DNA sampling?
• Why did the phone get turned in and then appear in the bushes behind a migrant worker's residence, and why would such a high value theft item be discarded so close to the residence?
• Why was the FBI uninvited to participate and the DNA sent to a country where Thailand has connections?
• Why were the current suspects cleared, then uncleared of suspicion?
• Will DNA collected from the bodies in England match your samples?

If they can answer these questions, all will be satisfied. Otherwise, people will call foul/blue diamond caper until Hades freezes over. This one is not going away anytime soon.

Thailand has no connections in Singapore if you are in anyway suggesting that Singapore might not have acted completely correctly. Drop that bit from your argument as it's total BS and devalues the rest of it.

SINGAPORE DNA. What makes you think that DNA samples from these 3 Burmese, after their arrests, were sent to Singapore? Link?

Their samples were tested in just a few hours by RTP forensics BK.

Those with forensic experience say that is just not possible in TH.

CHRONOLOGY:

First all DNA testing was being done by Police Forensics BK.

Then police complain they lack funds to do all the tests at B5000 a pop in BK.

Then police say they will get help from FBI.

Then police say FBI not required as sending some (not all) samples to commercial lab in Singapore for further analysis to determine skin, eye, hair colour etc. Never heard any more on that one.

Then all testing is being done in BK again, not Singapore.

Have followed this closely from Day one. Check the chronology above. It all comes from official high ranking police statements published on TV.

The original dna from the crime scene on file in singapore. The dna from the suspects still exist within the suspects and lawyers can do a new swab and retest to results of crime scene dna in sigapore ... even Thai police would know this.

[kcirtapyelrah]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

We are almost undivided on this matter, "unity" a rare occurrance, we must strenghten our resolve and don't give up. It's very heartening.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed as well as inflammatory replies. Let's keep it civil please.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Agreed Draftvader!!

I hope that they are forced to do this (that would one good thing to come out of this petitioning if that is suggested).

[Tazwa]

okay I'll be the first to say it. In respect for David and Hannah's family.

I can't believe how much people are claiming these Burmese are innocent with all the evidence piled up against them. People's logic? They are too small, don't look like a rapist or cold blooded murderers?!?!

The biggest mistake the police made was following half drunken or inebriated claims of people with NO forensics background. once the police (probably with help) followed their cigarette lead, they found the culprits quickly! 99.9% of every single rumor online was JUST that. Zero evidence backing it up. No actual smoking gun. Shocking people with crime scene photos doesn't prove anything. Showing people a phone that may have been turned into police after the murders prove nothing. Where is the smoking gun? A police report.? How do you know that wasn't the officers phone?

The Burmese ran off after the police

Spotted them on the beach? Why? They were scared to be deported ? The police know almost all Burmese workers are illegal. Why would the pick out just one innocent group ?

They were tortured with boiling water ?? Where is the smoking gun?? JUST another rumor. I didn't see any Burmese with burn marks. How did they know they were tortured ? Did they call and tell them? I doubt it.

One shared cigarette does not mean rape or murder. it means contact with the victim. One cigarette does not exclude unidentified others who may have also been there.

Actually forensics showing a wound made by a knife as opposed to the hoe that was reported as the murder weapon leaving a murder weapon missing proves..er..that they are missing one of the murder weapons and have falsely reported what kind of weapon was used perhaps.

The distinctive orange/pink phone with dark purple case belonging to hannah is available to view in tv forum on various pages, as well as viewable in various past photos of hannah that have been published online by newspapers and forums. This same very distinctive phone was clearly visible on a policemans desk the day after the murders during a thai news youtube video. An as yet unsubstantiated post from a friend of hannah's confirms the phone was given to the police on request the day after the murders.

Have you not been keeping abreast of the ongoing case?

The torture was reported formally to an NGO by Burmese diplomats. It appeared ten Burmese people were taken in and three were allegedly tortured. Hence this thread........

-snip-

How do you know that wasn't the officers phone?

Just because a phone looks similar on YouTube or Facebook doesn't mean some one has a similar phone or the police didn't put it on their reports. Where is this 'friend ' that said she had Hannah's phone ? Don't know?

Because it's hearsay. doesn't mean anything as far as evidence goes. Just a coincidence or more likely a troll.

There is a new article in the locked Thailand news section here where the police are now saying the phone they found was John's, not Hannah's. So those who have been saying that the girl gave Hannah's phone to the police are probably correct.

I think the social media has driven the police to backing and filling on that story.

Or could it be that the social media has been grasping at straws for 3 weeks now .

Was it ever announced by the police that the found phone was Hannah's ?

It was always said announced as being ONE of the victim's phone, the social media conspiracy theorists added their own words to it.

Yes, it certainly was announced that the phone found belonged to Hannah and I previously quoted the source where this statement was printed.

Only today have the police said the phone belonged to David. After following this case every day, I think this is the first Id heard about David's phone missing. I guess it's one of those details that police never published or got mixed up in translation by the media.

There's been so many contradicting statements published in the media, it's no wonder we've developed these conspiracy theories.

[draftvader]

Anyone who believes the Thai police is EXTREMELY stupid. "Oh, the DNA evidence, it mathces!!", they cry.

That's BS. Has ANYONE actually seen the DNA tests? Of course not, all we have is a statement from the Thai cops we're meant to believe that says there's a match. They probably didn't even bother to test it. Why would they?

And these lawyers, they won't be allowed proper access. The accused will be given some 'appointed' lawyer who will probably be paid not to ask too many questions.

So you don't think that the defence team will ask to be shown the DNA evidence and believe their word on this!!!

Yeh right!!

What defence team? You mean the corrupt one that's foisted upon the two defendants, that are being paid to not do their jobs properly?

It doesn't matter who the defence team is or where it comes from - I think that this is quite relevant to the case and might just come out in the court.

Anyway, all you knights in shining armour are going to pay for a top notch defence for these 2 framed boys, aren't you??

All of you that have donated 'to the cause' might look a little foolish if there is unquestionable evidence that they did it.

I'd pay money to know that the correct men are being held. Tell me where to donate and I'll put in money for an independent (not RTP chosen) DNA test to be done. ONLY on the condition that the AC bar family are also sampled at the same time...."to clear their names".

[Judge Judy]

This has got baloney written all over it!

[zyphodb]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

I live in Thailand, signed this petition & tried to share it on my facebook wall, even using a VPN it didn't post... I wonder why?

[7Heaven]

There is a new article in the locked Thailand news section here where the police are now saying the phone they found was John's, not Hannah's. So those who have been saying that the girl gave Hannah's phone to the police are probably correct.

I think the social media has driven the police to backing and filling on that story.

Or could it be that the social media has been grasping at straws for 3 weeks now .

Was it ever announced by the police that the found phone was Hannah's ?

It was always said announced as being ONE of the victim's phone, the social media conspiracy theorists added their own words to it.

Yes

[bannork]

The UK Daily has been blacked out for raising points the Thai authority cannot contradict in regards to the Koh Tao murders. Welcome to North Korea.

Which daily now ?

The Daily Mail / Mail on Sunday ! If you have a vpn that identifies you being anywhere but Thailand you can still get online to read the paper many people in countries such as China / North Korea use VPN in order that they can get onto tabloids / Face book that are banned in there countries it appears since the last Coup the regime have blocked certain tabloids who have spoken out !

I noticed that I can't access any Premier League articles in the Daily Mail. Wondered why because I can access all the other UK press. So it's because of their coverage of this story is it? Any way to confirm it?

No, no and no. The Daily Mail has been banned for months since running a story about a member of the royal family. Actually it should be banned on the grounds of being a poorly written tabloid, catering to the prejudices of the lower middle English class.

[Anthony5]

I'd pay money to know that the correct men are being held. Tell me where to donate and I'll put in money for an independent (not RTP chosen) DNA test to be done. ONLY on the condition that the AC bar family are also sampled at the same time...."to clear their names".

If you were really serious about your donation claims, you could have googled Andy Hall donations.

But I notice that you place conditions already.

Now a quick suggestion, if you add the condition that the outcome of the DNA test has to be to your likes, you can be sure that your donation will not be accepted.

[Anthony5]

There is a new article in the locked Thailand news section here where the police are now saying the phone they found was John's, not Hannah's. So those who have been saying that the girl gave Hannah's phone to the police are probably correct.

I think the social media has driven the police to backing and filling on that story.

Or could it be that the social media has been grasping at straws for 3 weeks now .

Was it ever announced by the police that the found phone was Hannah's ?

It was always said announced as being ONE of the victim's phone, the social media conspiracy theorists added their own words to it.

Yes

Then provide a link, which you can't, or shut up.

[evadgib]

The petition may prove to be a well intentioned Reg Herring, given this precedent:

The death of Helen Smith and her father's subsequent campaign led to a change in the rules regarding inquests into violent or unnatural deaths abroad.^[2] The West Yorkshire Coroner, Philip Gill had declined to hold an inquest, concluding that the case was outside his jurisdiction. However, although his decision was upheld by the High Court, in July 1982 the Court of Appeal ordered the inquest to go ahead. The ruling imposed a duty on coroners to investigate deaths abroad where the body was returned to England and Wales.^[6] The hearing was billed as the inquest of the century, but failed to give Ron Smith the closure he had wanted. The jury returned an open verdict.^[6] The 1982 ruling had an impact on thousands of cases and was later cited as a reason for the decision to hold an inquest into the death of Diana, Princess of Wales.^[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Smith_(nurse)

Edited October 5, 2014 by evadgib

[GanDoonToonPet]

The latest BP story, 'Investigate the Investigators', reports that the suspects have been on Koh Tao for 2 & 3 years, not 2 weeks.

[zyphodb]

I signed this petition, I live in Thailand & tried to share it's link on my facebook home page. Even using a VPN it would not post on my page... I wonder why???

[Alan653]

The last sentence of this article is obscene. I'm not blaming the journalist him(her)self, because his(her) statement is obviously accurate but it shows what these islanders are really like. Sorry if I sound angry, it's because I am angry.

Like it or not the locals of Koh Tao are somehow collectively responsible for this disaster, because they ALL accept and support a totally corrupt system which plagues every single island in this country, all in the name of sheer profit. In this system the locals do not in effect have to abide by the law, because they own the law.

In this system, the locals hire massive amounts of illegal workers who are obscenely underpaid and exploited in every possible way. That some of these guys would end up losing their screws and behaving like animals is totally unjustifiable of course, but the context is explosive, and the locals are responsible for that, not the migrants.

The locals are not to blame. Say there was a murder in Disneyland or Pat Pong, do you expect everyone working there to find new employment? That's ridiculous.

I don't find that ridiculous at all.

I bellieve that in you serinio that if there were indeed a murdrr at Disneyland or Patpong, that there would be people that would look for employment else where because they have good morals and a consience.

So yes the local's are to blame to a point!

[Thai at Heart]

" Tourists are returning in droves... tourists are confident about safety. tourists are confident the authorities can provide safety. "

Well of course they are, it just couldn't be an other way, could it ?

Sounds idyllic.

[elektrified]

It does seem that the story about the mobile phone belonging to the female victim found at the residence of one of the defendants may have been lost in translation. The BP reported today that the mobile found actually belonged to the male victim.

[7Heaven]

Or could it be that the social media has been grasping at straws for 3 weeks now .

Was it ever announced by the police that the found phone was Hannah's ?

It was always said announced as being ONE of the victim's phone, the social media conspiracy theorists added their own words to it.

Yes

Then provide a link, which you can't, or shut up.

Why?

if you would be interested in this case you have already read it in one of the many news articles published

[JohnThailandJohn]

Anyone else read the BP newspaper today where it said the phone found outside the suspect's home was David Miller's?

This is a first.

Actually the police said from the get go the phone belonged to one of the victims. Never said Hannah's especially not the same one they openly showed the collected on the first day.