How do you solve the security device/mobile phone banking challenge while travelling?

[hermespan]

Banks in Hong Kong, Singapore and Cambodia have started some time ago to use elaborate security system to avoid fraud. Good idea except they are cumbersome and inconvenient. You get a little device about the size of a credit card to which you enter a code sent to your mobile phone. One of my banks requires multiple steps.

ATMS work without these little buggers. But wire transfers and online purchases do not.

The bank has to have your registered mobile phone number on file. Sometimes this can be changed by phone, sometimes (Hong Kong - ugh) this requires a letter by snail mail. I suspect that some banks require it be done in person.

In any case it really is not practical for frequent flyers. I spend only weeks or a couple of months in each country and deal with multiple banks in several jurisdictions. I can't be contacting all the Bank HQ every time I cross a border.

Is there some way to get a *steady* phone without paying outrageous roaming charges? A friend suggested VOIP and other subscription services but I think this is more for outgoing calls.

I think it's a bit of a scam, intended to increase bank revenue more than security. A lot of business and leisure travellers are just going to say 'oh, to heck with it, too much work, I'll just use the ATM'. And using ATM means bigger profits for the banks (lousy FXS rates, fees at both ends, percentages for using outside of country of bank and in a different currency. If I keep this up all my gains from fixed deposits will be eaten up by bank charges)

[paddyjenkins]

Buy a dual sim phone. Keep your home country sim registered but don't make calls or send messages using it or use data services. Then you pay nothing as all you use it for is to receive messages. Never make the mistake of answering any call as you pay outrageous roaming fees, similarly never ever allow that sim to use data services. I buy a local sim for local use and to subscribe to Internet. I also take the security tokens for my bank with me, but I keep the token separately from my phone, never together. Also, make sure your phone and SIM card is protected with a PIN code and ensure your bank passwords are well protected and not written down in a place together with either the token or the phone, and never, ever, use a computer that has the potential to be tampered with, your own laptop or iPad is best. Finally, avoid using ATMs or credit cards and if you do have to use an ATM, try to ensure its on the premises of a Western or non Thai bank such as Citibank, not a local bank, not an ATM at 7-11, not an ATM just in some shopping mall etc. Anyway, those are some of the precautions I take.

Edited October 6, 2014 by paddyjenkins

[arnestockholm]

So why not take the little device with you? Travel 200 days and more per year and never had any issue with it. Also I am using a special number for the SMS codes from the bank in an small Nokia phone that's used only for this. So as SMS incoming never generate any roaming fees this should be also a good solution.

[hermespan]

PaddyJenkins wrote: "Buy a dual sim phone. Keep your home country sim registered but don't make calls or send messages using it or use data services. Then you pay nothing as all you use it for is to receive messages."

Great idea, thank you! You mean my home number cellular service company will charge me nothing/close to nothing for receiving SMS? Wow! I never realized that. Funny my bank didn't suggest this as a solution.

Hmm, I am already in Asia and my citizenship/residency/home country SIM I believe has no credit. I will call and see if we can sort this out to see if it will work. Alternatively i could use any of my other Asian cards I suppose. Guess I'll just see which one has the most credit by calling their hotlines and discussing incoming SMSs.

Actually, I am not keen to buy a dual SIM phone, I want one of those *five* SIM phones from China!

What do most hobos and travelling businessmen do?

What makes you think my SIM card for any country would work in every other country? I doubt this is the case. I do notice this (rather creepy to me) thing though that whenever I cross one ASEAN country to another that I get a notification on my phone that I can roam. I find that a bit intrusive as I didn't ask for it.

Edited October 6, 2014 by hermespan

[paddyjenkins]

PaddyJenkins wrote: "Buy a dual sim phone. Keep your home country sim registered but don't make calls or send messages using it or use data services. Then you pay nothing as all you use it for is to receive messages."

Great idea, thank you! You mean my home number cellular service company will charge me nothing/close to nothing for receiving SMS? Wow! I never realized that. Funny my bank didn't suggest this as a solution.

Hmm, I am already in Asia and my citizenship/residency/home country SIM I believe has no credit. I will call and see if we can sort this out to see if it will work. Alternatively i could use any of my other Asian cards I suppose. Guess I'll just see which one has the most credit by calling their hotlines and discussing incoming SMSs.

Actually, I am not keen to buy a dual SIM phone, I want one of those *five* SIM phones from China!

What do most hobos and travelling businessmen do?

What makes you think my SIM card for any country would work in every other country? I doubt this is the case. I do notice this (rather creepy to me) thing though that whenever I cross one ASEAN country to another that I get a notification on my phone that I can roam. I find that a bit intrusive as I didn't ask for it.

I believe your sim will work because in my experience all of mine have always worked....post paid, pre paid....different countries.

Yes, these telco companies are worse than banks, they try to trick you into subscribing to incredibly bad value services....never fall for any of their lies. The good thing about their offers is it shows your sim must be working in that foreign country, so you've answered your own question.

[hermespan]

Telcom companies worse than banks. Now, that's a hard act to beat. One reason I would asset that banks are dishonest borderline criminals is because their charges are not transparent. Numerous times when wanting to use an ATM overseas I have gone in the bank and asked what exchange rate they would give me for converting my HKD, SGD, USD or whatever from my bank outside of their country via their ATM. They cannot or will not ever tell me. So, they expect to use their paid services blind. Imagine a physician or carpenter doing that. I much prefer going to a traditional money changer in a stall with prices posted for FXS.

How do banks get away with this. I suppose no one complains or they have a lot f financial clout. After all, in almost all countries of the world it is private banks that sell even the nation's currency supply to the public. At 'healthy' interest of course. In Hong Kong even the private banks have their names on the currency: Standard and Chartered, HSBC, etc. It is not the sovereign governments who control the world's money supply. It is international banks. And people get pset when an important industry is taken over by foreigners. What are we idiots?

Con of the century (centuries actually).

[keeniau96]

The dedicated little Nokia suggested by Arnes. seems a very good idea for this problem. Dual sims OK but confusion is all too easy in a hassled situation.

[hermespan]

I would like to hear from others who do this, to confirm that this strategy works - getting a SIM from virtually any country and getting incoming SMSs virtually any country on the planet (I expect Japan to be a problem, but fortunately I am rarely there). At low cost and long-term expiry date of SIM. Don't want to have to fly back to country X and update anything. My thinking right now is to get a new SIM and cheapo readable Nokia phone in Cambodia, a SIM there and if necessary to top up to have a friend do so in my absence.

[Naam]

Banks in Hong Kong, Singapore and Cambodia have started some time ago to use elaborate security system to avoid fraud. Good idea except they are cumbersome and inconvenient. You get a little device about the size of a credit card to which you enter a code sent to your mobile phone. One of my banks requires multiple steps.

my "some time ago" using a security token with a Singapore and a European bank started 14 years ago in 2000. it is however not based on a code sent to my mobile phone but the third step getting access to my bank account. after entering username and password i have to enter a 6-digit code (soon 8 digits) which is generated every 60 seconds by the token.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Naam

[thedemon]

Banks in Hong Kong, Singapore and Cambodia have started some time ago to use elaborate security system to avoid fraud. Good idea except they are cumbersome and inconvenient. You get a little device about the size of a credit card to which you enter a code sent to your mobile phone. One of my banks requires multiple steps.

my "some time ago" using a security token with a Singapore and a European bank started 14 years ago in 2000. it is however not based on a code sent to my mobile phone but the third step getting access to my bank account. after entering username and password i have to enter a 6-digit code (soon 8 digits) which is generated every 60 seconds by the token.

I have one of those older style tokens with only one button that dispenses a 6 digit number. I used to believe that it worked as you say yours does i.e. time based number generation. I discovered by accident that mine is not time based but simply consecutive. In other words, if I press the button ten time in a row and write down those numbers then I can use those numbers any time in the future so long as I use them consecutively. If I used (say) number 6 first, then numbers 7-10 would still work but 1-5 would be invalid.

I also used to have the same kind of token from HSBC (HKG) but they recently issued a more complicated token that requires a PIN entry, then a token generated number and then I need to enter the last 8 digits of the beneficiary account number into the token which will then generate the final authentication number. It's quite painful when I need do multiple transactions. I much prefer the mobile phone OTP system used by Thai banks.

[thedemon]

I would like to hear from others who do this, to confirm that this strategy works - getting a SIM from virtually any country and getting incoming SMSs virtually any country on the planet (I expect Japan to be a problem, but fortunately I am rarely there). At low cost and long-term expiry date of SIM. Don't want to have to fly back to country X and update anything. My thinking right now is to get a new SIM and cheapo readable Nokia phone in Cambodia, a SIM there and if necessary to top up to have a friend do so in my absence.

Yes it definitely works. I have used this system with Thai banks for years. I use a post paid AIS number and I can't think of anywhere it won't roam apart from North Korea. If you don't have/want a post paid SIM then a pre-paid would also work so long as you can top up the balance as necessary. This you can easily do with internet banking from any major Thai bank.

Two points to note though;

1 - It's not free to receive the OTP by SMS when roaming. There is a charge but it's so little (maybe THB10/SMS?) as to be almost irrelevant.

2 - If you want to roam everywhere, you will need a 3G capable phone (not one of those old Nokia's) because some countries (e.g Japan, South Korea) don't have a compatible 2G network. Anyway 3G phones are cheap as chips nowadays too.

[AlexRRR]

My AU bank provide me with a gadged that when doing net banking you press the button type in the code it gives you then allows you access to your account to do transactions/view etc.

If they have it im pretty sure most banks would.

[bangkapi]

Just take a pocketful of hundred dollar bills wherever you go.

Screw those phone transfers and credit card advances.

[utkb]

I have the electronic token and also use a sim to receive the security code.

Recently my token went out (digitally dead) but luckily I could tell my bank to switch to the sms as I won't be in Thailand for a while but still needed to do some banking.

I've set up a mobile top up with the same bank that allows me to add baht online to my phone if needed. It also reduces the risk of AIS deleting my phone account.

BTW a few years back my brokerage account blocked me because I was using a VPN and they thought multiple countries were trying to access my account. Having a token removed this issue.

Also some tokens can get out of sync and need to be reset.

Edited October 9, 2014 by utkb

[Nuddy]

Yeah its the traveling part thats gets you.

If say you stay overseas in one country from your banker there is not many problems.

But to access from different countries, different phones and different devices it will all get a bit touchy.

I recommend internet banking from your main home banker and using say a laptop instead of a phone. Carry the laptop, and

secure the laptop.

Use internet banking to send your dosh wherever you like from where ever you like but using internet banking on a local wifi.

If you have a smart phone you can even make the hotspot for wifi yourself.

[yardrunner]

Why go to the expense of buying a dual Sim smart phone, I have an old phone I used to use in the UK and use that for receiving texts from my UK bank, or it is easy to get a Sim card for the UK on eBay so I should think it would be possible for other countries to

[hermespan]

Banks in Hong Kong, Singapore and Cambodia have started some time ago to use elaborate security system to avoid fraud. Good idea except they are cumbersome and inconvenient. You get a little device about the size of a credit card to which you enter a code sent to your mobile phone. One of my banks requires multiple steps.

my "some time ago" using a security token with a Singapore and a European bank started 14 years ago in 2000. it is however not based on a code sent to my mobile phone but the third step getting access to my bank account. after entering username and password i have to enter a 6-digit code (soon 8 digits) which is generated every 60 seconds by the token.

Exactly so.

[hermespan]

And then it becomes a hassle - multiple SIMs on same phone, multiples phones, different rings for different people. Geez, I managed running a mail order *business* in 1995-1997 - with only a landline and a fax machine. And getting statements in the mail from my offshore banks. Seems we have become too fast and furious.

But aside from the lifestyle/philosophical issue (is a digital life really necessary?) the logistics of it all become complicated. Take for example, a buddy in Cambodia who goes travelling in Burma. I called him once and he was very annoyed because he was on a cyclo in Yangon and it was costing him something like a billion dollars a minute. I guess he forgot to turn off roaming or something. Is there a way to turn off SIMS while outside the country of origin?

I am not convinced which method is simpler, more secure and more convenient. I think all three of my Asian banks offered me to use either cell phone or security token. But some (Singapore requires BOTH at the same time!) My security pouch is getting full - and naturally I am concerned about having all these access-to-my-money doodads in the same place so I end up being like a squirrel stashing devices and cards here and there. It is becoming a headache, and to that end I am phasing out actively using multiple banks and stashing the lions share of my active funds in one. It's becoming a nightmare keeping track of how much is where anyway. Admitedly, however I am an arithmetical and techological dummy. This dinosaur likes to walk into a bank and withdraw from a teller in person. But my itinerant lifestyle makes that close to impossible.

[hermespan]

Why go to the expense of buying a dual Sim smart phone, I have an old phone I used to use in the UK and use that for receiving texts from my UK bank, or it is easy to get a Sim card for the UK on eBay so I should think it would be possible for other countries to

Why? Space and weight. I don't like carrying more than one of each type of device - my kettle, my tea mug, my ultraviolet water purifier and my phone.

Every arrival in a new country I have to spend time half an hour cracking open the waterproof, dustproof and ice age proof case on my iphone then changing my SIM. Sometimes for multiple devices - a tablet and a laptop sometimes also. 'Staying connected' has become work!

I posted a social letter today, so fed up I am with electronic communciations. Yes, by mail. Remember the post office? That service where content is not routinely examined and stored for eternity either (just the exteriors of envelopes or examined packages no doubt).

But I might do just that - keep one phone just for my bank.

[rhodie]

I have a DTAC Sim that I use in OZ. They do not charge any roaming fees for receiving text message so that works for me when I am doing transfers with my Thai bank account.

[jacko45k]

Could you not use a Skype number and a smart phone?

[Joe Black]

Ive been travelling 2.5 years this time...my method of banking is have 2 accounts in my home country , they are linked . I transfer funds via the internet from my main account ( no ATM ) into my ATM account..withdraw all the funds so nothing remains in my ATM account. I even linked another ATM account as a back up card which I haven't needed to use..

Even if they managed to hacked the main account the best they could do is transfer funds into my ATM account , then they need the ATM card....they cant set up another account unless they have my home number which is now obsolete...

Works for me...

[louse1953]

Buy a dual sim phone. Keep your home country sim registered but don't make calls or send messages using it or use data services. Then you pay nothing as all you use it for is to receive messages. Never make the mistake of answering any call as you pay outrageous roaming fees, similarly never ever allow that sim to use data services. I buy a local sim for local use and to subscribe to Internet. I also take the security tokens for my bank with me, but I keep the token separately from my phone, never together. Also, make sure your phone and SIM card is protected with a PIN code and ensure your bank passwords are well protected and not written down in a place together with either the token or the phone, and never, ever, use a computer that has the potential to be tampered with, your own laptop or iPad is best. Finally, avoid using ATMs or credit cards and if you do have to use an ATM, try to ensure its on the premises of a Western or non Thai bank such as Citibank, not a local bank, not an ATM at 7-11, not an ATM just in some shopping mall etc. Anyway, those are some of the precautions I take.

What about paying the monthly fee to telco,$A30 in my case.I cancelled it and everything was ok,until i wanted my sister to bring some cash over for me.Can't put money into her acc.without them sending me SMS code and can't change daily limit without said code also.I haven't used my Oz debit card for years,but may be forced to do so,until fixed deposit money is freed up.Not happy,hate the banks.

[louse1953]

PaddyJenkins wrote: "Buy a dual sim phone. Keep your home country sim registered but don't make calls or send messages using it or use data services. Then you pay nothing as all you use it for is to receive messages."

Great idea, thank you! You mean my home number cellular service company will charge me nothing/close to nothing for receiving SMS? Wow! I never realized that. Funny my bank didn't suggest this as a solution.

Hmm, I am already in Asia and my citizenship/residency/home country SIM I believe has no credit. I will call and see if we can sort this out to see if it will work. Alternatively i could use any of my other Asian cards I suppose. Guess I'll just see which one has the most credit by calling their hotlines and discussing incoming SMSs.

Actually, I am not keen to buy a dual SIM phone, I want one of those *five* SIM phones from China!

What do most hobos and travelling businessmen do?

What makes you think my SIM card for any country would work in every other country? I doubt this is the case. I do notice this (rather creepy to me) thing though that whenever I cross one ASEAN country to another that I get a notification on my phone that I can roam. I find that a bit intrusive as I didn't ask for it.

They will charge you nothing except monthly access fee to their network.

[SheungWan]

I use internet banking all the way when travelling. However if the online toy is lost or broken, the bank (HSBC) will only send a replacement to your registered account address so you need to think about that.

[utkb]

I use internet banking all the way when travelling. However if the online toy is lost or broken, the bank (HSBC) will only send a replacement to your registered account address so you need to think about that.

Yes this is what happened with me and citibank; but they have the option to receive an sms if the token is lost/broken using my local sim which I think has worked good for me. ( HSBC no longer has personal accounts in Thailand )

[SheungWan]

I use internet banking all the way when travelling. However if the online toy is lost or broken, the bank (HSBC) will only send a replacement to your registered account address so you need to think about that.

Yes this is what happened with me and citibank; but they have the option to receive an sms if the token is lost/broken using my local sim which I think has worked good for me. ( HSBC no longer has personal accounts in Thailand )

I explained to HSBC in person that there was this problem of being abroad and the toy going kaput. They have given me a spare one which can be activated in the event of necessity. Go into HSBC and ask for a backup before your trip.