Sick of Mint

[AyG]

I stopped using Ubuntu after they changed the user interface to the dreadful "Unity" - an interface seemingly designed by morons for use by morons - and changed to Mint.

Unlike Ubuntu which can do version upgrades in place, Mint encourages you to back everything up, then completely reinstall.

For the version 16 to 17 upgrade I tried upgrading in place and it failed, so I had to do the full backup. The Mint backup tool simply doesn't work. A couple of other backup tools I tried crashed part way through. In the end I just copied the contents of my entire home directory which took many hours. (Nemo kept hanging, so I switched to command line, which worked OK.)

Version 17 installed OK. I then spent several hours downloading and reinstalling all my applications. All but one of them (Flexget) worked OK. It took me some time to work out what was wrong. (They've changed the format of the configuration file.)

Then it was time to turn my attention to hardware:

No sound. I've spent ages trying to fix this, to no avail. I've killed pulseaudio. I've modified the grub configuration. I've reinstalled alsa several times. I think the only option left for me to try is to downgrade the kernel.

No printer. The printer (an Epson L210) is recognised, but the download/driver install simply hangs at 0% complete. Not sure where to go with that. Not even started to look at the scanner yet.

This isn't the first time I've had problems with upgrading Mint. In fact, every single version upgrade has failed in one way or another.

Should I jump to a different Linux distro? Or are they all equally problematic during upgrades? And if so, any recommendation for one suitable for someone who prefers a traditional user interface?

[Guest]

If you like Ubuntu without the Unity, then simply use Kubuntu with KDE or Ubuntu with Gnome. I have been Kubuntu for ages with my linux laptops (one was for daily usage, another works as home server).

To switch between desktop managers is easy to do with one single command. It will download all the needed packages.

NOTE ON THE INTERFACES: Ubuntu = Unity; Kubuntu = KDE; Xubuntu = XFCE; Lubuntu = LXDE; Ubuntu GNOME = GNOME

Ubuntu: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
Kubuntu: apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
Xubuntu: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
Lubuntu: apt-get install lubuntu-desktop
Ubuntu GNOME: apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop

From: http://www.linux.org/threads/converting-between-the-ubuntus.5079/

If one wishes to go and remove packages/applications which are not part of the specific desktop manager, then there are ways to do it as well. However this is not really needed. Ubuntu applications work with Kubuntu. The reason to remove the apps is to decrease resource usage.

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekubuntu

Edited October 9, 2014 by Guest

[dave_boo]

I agree; if you are used to the Debian/Ubuntu/Mint way of thinking than stick with it.

I also read somewhere that Ubuntu recommends that you do not have a separate /home partition. That's incredibly bad. Under opensuse I just format the non /home partition and install the new operating system. So many fewer issues.

**edit**

I forgot to mention but I prefer to use LXDE. Very Win98 in looks it is super light weight...not that any of my machines can't handle the heavier DE out there, it's a feel good about reducing consumption.

Edited October 9, 2014 by dave_boo

[thaimite]

If you like Ubuntu without the Unity, then simply use Kubuntu with KDE or Ubuntu with Gnome. I have been Kubuntu for ages with my linux laptops (one was for daily usage, another works as home server).

To switch between desktop managers is easy to do with one single command. It will download all the needed packages.

NOTE ON THE INTERFACES: Ubuntu = Unity; Kubuntu = KDE; Xubuntu = XFCE; Lubuntu = LXDE; Ubuntu GNOME = GNOME

Ubuntu: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop

Kubuntu: apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

Xubuntu: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

Lubuntu: apt-get install lubuntu-desktop

Ubuntu GNOME: apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop

From: http://www.linux.org/threads/converting-between-the-ubuntus.5079/

If one wishes to go and remove packages/applications which are not part of the specific desktop manager, then there are ways to do it as well. However this is not really needed. Ubuntu applications work with Kubuntu. The reason to remove the apps is to decrease resource usage.

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekubuntu

Or you could install the Mint Cinnamon GUI in Ubuntu

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/07/new-cinnamon-ubuntu-14-04-ppa-stable

However you may want to wait a week or 2 until after Ubuntu 10.10 is released.

Edited October 9, 2014 by thaimite

[Guest]

I agree; if you are used to the Debian/Ubuntu/Mint way of thinking than stick with it.

I also read somewhere that Ubuntu recommends that you do not have a separate /home partition. That's incredibly bad. Under opensuse I just format the non /home partition and install the new operating system. So many fewer issues.

That's a bit of matter of opinion. Having separate partitions means that there is always some disk space lost as every partition should have enough free space on them.

Full reinstall is something that at least I don't want to do very often. Maybe after couple of years simply to clean up some extra applications I have installed and no longer use.

The full reinstallation does not take a long time, but to get all the needed applications, settings, services to work, takes quite a bit of time.

[Aachen]

I use /home on a separate partition. When the system (KUbuntu) crashes due to some reason all my files and defaults are still in place...

[Thaimaishoe]

However you may want to wait a week or 2 until after Ubuntu 10.10 is released.

I'm gonna figure you meant 14.10 to be released sometime this month. However since 14.04 is a LTR, support will last until the release of 19.10. Seeing as the OP is reluctant to jog along with the release treadmill, I would recommend installation of 14.04. Or install LMDE a Debian based rolling release of Mint. I do not have experience with rolling releases, but it sounds like what you want.

That said, mint has commited to using the 14.04 release for the base of mint for some time (they said, but I don't remember off the top of my head, and you sound like you want to kick mint to the curb anyway). To be honest, I don't know much about the mint distro, other than it split from, and uses Ubuntu as its parent distro, but with its own repositories.

As for what I do have experience with...

I have used Kubuntu for years, I think 6.04 is the oldest CD I have, and have been mostly happy with it (which is why I don't know too much about other distros!) I have never had much success with upgrade in place though. I did that a few times, and just got fed up with the process. Now I clear space on an existing drive, or buy a new HD, and do a fresh install everytime. I keep my /home dir on its own partition, and reclaim the old HD space when I am sure everything is working well. That being said, I do NOT reattach my old home dir to the new install. it is for reference only.

There are guides on the net for apt to back up the list of installed packages in the current installation, and read it in as a list of packages to install in the new installation. I just found and tried that last time (going to 14.04 - no success) but I can not recommend that path.

If you are distro shopping, I would recommend you stay away from any rpm based distro... rpm seems to be the good intentions that pave the road to hell.

[crabdog]

I'd suggest trying Manjaro. It's a rolling release so no need to worry about upgrading and you can choose between XFCE, KDE and Openbox DE's.

[thaimite]

However you may want to wait a week or 2 until after Ubuntu 10.10 is released.

I'm gonna figure you meant 14.10 to be released sometime this month.

Yes I meant 14.04. Sorry for the typo.

I have /home on a separate partition and when I do a complete reinstall I just save a copy of the /etc folder which holds my list of sources and applications installed to make a clean reinstall easier (something I rarely do)

All program configuration data should be in your home folder so when the application is reinstalled it should already be configured the way you like it

[aarn]

I agree the version-upgrade option maybe the road to ruin - only once (lubuntu 13.04 - 13.10???) did it work for me.

So maybe AyG could play with some of the LTS (long term support) systems based on Ubuntu 14.04 (which will be supported for 5 years)

(get them via distrowatch.com, install to a usb using unetbootin, for those that weren't aware).

If anyone is anticipating gremlins post-upgrade,

it may be worth generating lists of [most] installed programs pre- and post-upgrade:

open a terminal... $ cd /usr/bin

then $ ls

which will produce quite a listing, but not difficult to compare pre- v. post-

I want something that is not too counter-intuitive, sorry lubuntu but 14.04.1 broke this camel's back and you got dumped! Grrrrr...

I am only smart enough to use debian-based distributions, although the deb. mother-ship has an un-configurable (in my incompetent hands) network manager.

Anyway, linux lite performs very well for me,

and thumbs up for peach, ultimate, solyd... and deepin, as this may be the 'Asian century'.

Ahh linux, blood/sweat/tears all over the keyboard but the end result can be immensely satisfying.

Cheers, AA

[AyG]

My concern with going with anything based upon Ubuntu 14.04 is that I suspect I won't be able to get any sound because of the Linux kernel version. (Mint 17 is based upon Ubuntu 14.04, so I presume uses the same kernel.) I guess I'll just need to try booting from USB stick for a few of the options and see what works for me.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

[aarn]

AyG - concerning your audio problem, I have something similar.

No sound unless a cheap generic Chinese mp3 player is connected via a usb port.

Sound comes through earphones attached to the mp3 player, whether it is mounted or not!

There was sound from the computer, but maybe I connected the mp3 player when switched 'on'...

Linux - expect the unexpected, or maybe this is more evidence of the 'Asian century' AA

[keeniau96]

What can I say? I have installed Mint Cinnamon now for several years with the occasional full update including the Backup Tool. Some problems, but generally smooth on the last one (v.17). Did miss my printer but restarted and went through the Setting|Printer and it came up after a bit of searching (Brother HL-2130 laser, excellent and well supported). Never had a sound problem in any reinstall. The kernel has gotten some flak in the Mint Forum, mine is 3.13.0-24-generic, but all my devices working very well.

[userabcd]

For myself, Ubuntu unity was awful and I never liked it. Tried Mint and Xubuntu (both xfce) but eventually had problems with the updates.

I tested Manjaro (xfce) on a live usb and liked it. It's now installed on my PC as my main operating system and updates installed without problems and it's a rolling update release. For what I use, it's all working great.

[AyG]

After looking at several different distributions, I've plumped for Mint LMDE - the version of Linux Mint based upon Debian, rather than one based upon Ubuntu, which has the same Cinnamon GUI that I'm used to. It has rolling releases, which I prefer, even though it means I could potentially have problems at almost any time.

My only worry at the moment is that the Linux kernel for Mint LMDE is currently 3.11 (and with it I have both sound and printing). Eventually it will be upgraded, and I know, based upon messing around with Ubuntu, that neither kernel 3.13.0-24 or 3.13.0-37 detects/supports my speakers and printers properly. Let's just hope this doesn't become a problem.

Incidentally, the Debian-based version of Mint seems much snappier and more responsive than the standard Ubuntu version, which is an unexpected plus.

[Gumballl]

After looking at several different distributions, I've plumped for Mint LMDE - the version of Linux Mint based upon Debian, rather than one based upon Ubuntu, which has the same Cinnamon GUI that I'm used to. It has rolling releases, which I prefer, even though it means I could potentially have problems at almost any time.

My only worry at the moment is that the Linux kernel for Mint LMDE is currently 3.11 (and with it I have both sound and printing). Eventually it will be upgraded, and I know, based upon messing around with Ubuntu, that neither kernel 3.13.0-24 or 3.13.0-37 detects/supports my speakers and printers properly. Let's just hope this doesn't become a problem.

Incidentally, the Debian-based version of Mint seems much snappier and more responsive than the standard Ubuntu version, which is an unexpected plus.

I find it odd that you suspect a kernel, of any version, is really responsible for detecting your printer. I could very well be wrong about this, but I always thought that a printer driver stood apart from the kernel. The kernel, of course, has drivers for the parallel and USB ports, but these have actually nothing to do with the printer.

Have you tried setting up your printer using CUPS? Using your web-browser, navigate to 'localhost:631', and set up your printer. If a driver is available for your printer, it will be CUPS that provides it, not the kernel (of any variety).

Good luck.

P.S. A decent printer for home use can cost anywhere from $50-$75. Not a huge a investment.

[innerspace]

Ive had 2 machines on the last mint via upgrades and both had different minor but slightly irritating issues. 1 cant deal with minimised windows and the other flashed the screen a lot.

Agree that upgrades, despite working, are not fully advised. But currently I prefer workimg around them than reconfiguring my whole system.

Could clone home and etc bit enough necessary differences in configs that it would just create new issues....task when all is quiet.

Current mint is new in that they break ubuntus 6 month upgrades and are spending 2 years with the current lts as a base.

This will improve stability if you can solve your driver issues, though could make 16.04 uncharted territory.

Personally I like mint, like mate, dislike unity, not sold on cinnamon or gnome 3, not sold on xf or lc. Like debian but packages too old. Like centos but just know apt better than yum. But thats just me.

Beauty of linux is open source choice. Dont like it, make it. Cant make it, someone else might.

Get a big usb drive and try them all. See what plays nicely with your hardware and plays nicely with you. Ignore my preferences and everyone elses on here, but try them out anyway. Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a <deleted> big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose linux.

[AyG]

My only worry at the moment is that the Linux kernel for Mint LMDE is currently 3.11 (and with it I have both sound and printing). Eventually it will be upgraded, and I know, based upon messing around with Ubuntu, that neither kernel 3.13.0-24 or 3.13.0-37 detects/supports my speakers and printers properly. Let's just hope this doesn't become a problem.

I find it odd that you suspect a kernel, of any version, is really responsible for detecting your printer. I could very well be wrong about this, but I always thought that a printer driver stood apart from the kernel. The kernel, of course, has drivers for the parallel and USB ports, but these have actually nothing to do with the printer.

My understanding is that Linux is rather different from Microsoft Windows and other operating systems of that ilk. Linux has what is known as a "monolithic kernel" which means (amongst other things) that every single available driver is available within the kernel, and the drivers are simply loaded as required. In other words, print drivers run in "kernel mode".

Microsoft Windows has a "hybrid kernel" (the third alternative being "micro kernel"), where most drivers are external to the kernel and have to be installed as required and run in "user mode".

So, in Linux the printer driver does not stand apart from the kernel.

I think that something has gone wrong between Linux 3.11 (which loads the appropriate printer driver OK) and 3.13 (which doesn't).

[Gumballl]

My only worry at the moment is that the Linux kernel for Mint LMDE is currently 3.11 (and with it I have both sound and printing). Eventually it will be upgraded, and I know, based upon messing around with Ubuntu, that neither kernel 3.13.0-24 or 3.13.0-37 detects/supports my speakers and printers properly. Let's just hope this doesn't become a problem.

I find it odd that you suspect a kernel, of any version, is really responsible for detecting your printer. I could very well be wrong about this, but I always thought that a printer driver stood apart from the kernel. The kernel, of course, has drivers for the parallel and USB ports, but these have actually nothing to do with the printer.

My understanding is that Linux is rather different from Microsoft Windows and other operating systems of that ilk. Linux has what is known as a "monolithic kernel" which means (amongst other things) that every single available driver is available within the kernel, and the drivers are simply loaded as required. In other words, print drivers run in "kernel mode".

Microsoft Windows has a "hybrid kernel" (the third alternative being "micro kernel"), where most drivers are external to the kernel and have to be installed as required and run in "user mode".

So, in Linux the printer driver does not stand apart from the kernel.

I think that something has gone wrong between Linux 3.11 (which loads the appropriate printer driver OK) and 3.13 (which doesn't).

Yes, the kernel does load modules, as needed, to support system hardware. A printer is not considered 'system' hardware. It is an external device that can be communicated with using either a USB port or a parallel port.

In your spare time, you should read this document: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/writingandpackagingprinterdrivers#Printer_driver_design

This being said, you have not posted anything regarding my suggestion to get onto the CUPS interface (at http://localhost:631). Try to add your printer (if a PPD exists for it), and then try to print a test page. If a PPD does not exist, then I would suggest that you invest in a different printer that is supported by CUPS.

P.S. Long ago, I found that Mint was not that great. I also dislike Ubuntu's unity desktop. That is why I opted to go with Kubuntu -- it's Ubuntu, but with the KDE interface. Personally I chose to go with the LTS version, for which I will have guaranteed support for 5 years, which is typical for the lifetime of a computer.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Gumballl

[cooked]

I was told by a guy who was a developer for mint and then left because of the way things were going. He recommended sticking with Ubuntu, but this was a few years ago.

[AyG]

This being said, you have not posted anything regarding my suggestion to get onto the CUPS interface (at http://localhost:631). Try to add your printer (if a PPD exists for it), and then try to print a test page. If a PPD does not exist, then I would suggest that you invest in a different printer that is supported by CUPS.

I didn't need to fiddle with CUPS since Mint LMDE, with an older kernel that the current release of regular Ubuntu/Mint, identified the printer just fine and works with the manufacturer's drivers.