Cheaper to buy my rice than grow? Comments?

[HerIndoors]

Given that the Yinluck rice fiasco is no longer delivering around 15000B a tonne I am starting to wonder if the missus is better off just buying it at Tesco ! Anyone familiar with the work, energy, time and money needed to grow, harvest then mill rice will understand where I am coming from. We have my income of over 1,000,000 B a year yet it seems we are sinking money into an unfinancial endeavour. Sure we have rice to eat and some to sell (only around 9 rai) but given the work involved it seems a prettey poor return on funds. Of course the real battle would be convincing an Issan farm woman that it is OK to buy rather than grow.

Any ideas and sensible comments welcome.

[wayned]

"convincing an Issan farm woman that it is OK to buy rather than grow."

That pretty much says it all! I've lived here in farm country over 16 years and have realized that most of the farmers have no concept of ROI.

Most of the farmers around me have maxed out their credit line with the AACB but the first thing that they do when they sell their crop is buy something new. The corn harvest is in full swing and so far 2 new cars have turned up in the village. Unfortunately they will most likely be repossessed within 6 months.

When I do an ROI analysis, amortizing the cost of equipment and facilities over a fixed period, and show my wife exactly what we spend to produce and sell the crops she doesn't want anything to do with it. She's just interested in the gross and not the net. As in your case I actually make it worse as I contribute personal funds to get the job done.

[gerry123]

yes not the first time this question has been asked i went through a similar thought process many moons back basically

there is very little profit in rice production especially on a small land spread

that's why it is called subsistence farming i asked my wife about this and really the reply was its not the profit its the satisfaction of growing your own produce also i think in a small community there is some sort of competition factor of who can grow the elusive perfect crop

nowadays i do not put any extra funds towards the rice crop initially i funded the project for a couple of years and then with agreement with my wife

at the end of the season sale i suggested she bank the money and i topped up the account with a equal amount and said that no further top-ups would be available you may think a little hard? maybe but since that time (5 years) its worked well just sit back and enjoy the tasty product

[zyphodb]

They love growing their own Rice if they have a few Rai of paddies, not only do they eat known quality of Rice, It's a part of their basic identity & culture to grow rice if they live in a village & have a bit of land...

Like Garry, I don't put any funds into my families rice production, they certainly never make any money, but they finish up with all the family having free rice, including the ones in Bangkok, & making enough money to buy the next seasons seed. And it's not really that labour intensive for just a few Rai. So leave em to it & enjoy knowing where the rice that you eat comes from...

[gerry123]

They love growing their own Rice if they have a few Rai of paddies, not only do they eat known quality of Rice, It's a part of their basic identity & culture to grow rice if they live in a village & have a bit of land...

Like Garry, I don't put any funds into my families rice production, they certainly never make any money, but they finish up with all the family having free rice, including the ones in Bangkok, & making enough money to buy the next seasons seed. And it's not really that labour intensive for just a few Rai. So leave em to it & enjoy knowing where the rice that you eat comes from...

Like Garry, GERRY

[umbanda]

Look at the 30/30/30/10 King's formula for agricultural land production. Makes a lot of sense. I am trying to convince my wife's sister to use it on its 6 Rai rice field....and I just watched last night a TV interview with a farmer making 1 million/year profit growing pappayas on its Southern land....

I do not know about Issan, probably is not the right one there, but looks like coffee is the most profittable agro production in Thailand...

You may need to move and invest in Chiang Rai....

[HerIndoors]

Thanx for all the input folks and its comforting to know I am not Robinson Crusoe here. Yes the old ROI..does not seem to equate up here and not helped by their seeming inability to put a price or value on their own labour. This is / was the misus' first venture into rice so maybe she should just put her energies into the somo orchard.

ta

[PaulHamon]

why not just grow enough to get and then switch the other land to something else.

friend of him encourage this wife family to dig a damn, use the earth to raise the rice field high enough to grow vegetables.

they make more money overall and have never looked back.

[finnomick]

It's not so much convincing your lady that buying rice would probably be more beneficial than growing it herself, but trying to convince her that if she sold her land she could buy rice probably for the rest of her life without having to do all that work. Land ownership means more than almost anything else. We are having a similar situation with the wife's father. He has 50 rai of land of which 34 rai is for growing rice. He has the deeds to the land, and the land is bordered by two good roads, and a river. It has been valued at 100k per rai netting him 3.4 million baht. He is in his 60's and is finding the work too much now, plus he wants to build a new family home -- he has just sold the original wooden house the family have all lived and grown up in. But he says he has no money. He cannot see what is staring him in the face. None of his children want to take over the farm, they are all grown up and have their own lives. If he sold this 34 rai ( leaving him 16 rai ) he could build his house and have more than enough money to live on for the rest of his natural. It was the same with the buffaloes. They were just kept for prestige ( ? ) -- look how many buffaloes I have. But why, what use were they ? They just took up time any money to look after and feed. Eventually he saw through the prestige and sold them giving him money in his pocket and more free time.

[dao16]

Better yet, do what we do and rent the land out to other people to farm. They will be happy to pay the "rent" in a percentage of rice at the end of the harvest and cash in on whatever else they produce. My wife and her family deal with those details, so I couldn't tell you how much they get per rai, but it is not a bad chunk of rice and everybody is happy.

[khunPer]

»Any ideas and sensible comments welcome.«

Can be hard to convince that it’s not worth growing your own rice – they may even taste better than the ones you buy, which is very true when it comes to fresh newly harvested rice compared to perhaps several years old rice from the supermarket; I will compare it with eating this years new small fresh potatoes…

Financially buying rice may make more sense compared to the hard work involved growing it – unless one enjoys doing the work – but that may be very hard to convince a Thai about.

A suggestion: Rent out the land and let someone else grow the rice and pay the rent in rice – that’s quite normal business and often the rent is 2/9th of the harvest, which may be (more than) enough to feed a family...

[rickirs]

Yes, the Yingluck rice pledge program is gone (paid in full by Junta through government loans) but have you considered the recent Junta government actions in your rice economics:

1) Land subsidy - Payment of 1,000 baht per rai for the in-season rice farming

2) A new rice pledging scheme - the government is set to buy paddy with no more than 15% moisture content at 15,000 baht a tonne, up to a maximum of 350,000 baht per household. The first round of pledging is slated for October 2013 to February 2014.

3) Additional rice pledge scheme - the government will buy paddy with no more than 15% moisture content for 13,000 baht per tone, up to a maximum of 300,000 baht per household for the second crop.

ref. NNT 2013-09-03 & NNT 2014-10-05

[louse1953]

No big money in growing rice.We grow enough to eat, organically.

[louse1953]

"convincing an Issan farm woman that it is OK to buy rather than grow."

That pretty much says it all! I've lived here in farm country over 16 years and have realized that most of the farmers have no concept of ROI.

Most of the farmers around me have maxed out their credit line with the AACB but the first thing that they do when they sell their crop is buy something new. The corn harvest is in full swing and so far 2 new cars have turned up in the village. Unfortunately they will most likely be repossessed within 6 months.

When I do an ROI analysis, amortizing the cost of equipment and facilities over a fixed period, and show my wife exactly what we spend to produce and sell the crops she doesn't want anything to do with it. She's just interested in the gross and not the net. As in your case I actually make it worse as I contribute personal funds to get the job done.

5555,a mates wife rekons she makes good money from rice,100% subsidized by hubby.Thai economics.

[lvr181]

No big money in growing rice.We grow enough to eat, organically.

Eat organically? I've not tried that, or am I missing out on something?

Or grow organically and eat? But I will forgive you, if English is not your first language

[bazza40]

I'd suggest leaving some of the available land still in rice for cultural reasons mentioned by other posts, and try to convince her to grow something exotic after researching suitability of climate and soil. For example, fresh asparagus ( nor mae falang ) is fairly difficult to find in the markets in Chiang Mai, and comparatively expensive for the amount you get. The mushrooms ( het ) are fairly ordinary in taste compared to a good horse mushroom.

There's a lot of activity in the Fang - Thaton area converting traditional rice/corn areas to a number of other crops, and the volcanic soil seems to grow anything. Don't know if the Isaan region can do the same.

[loongdavid]

Someone just used the word 'economics' and that says it all. The principal thing missing from this subject are home grown Thai agricultural economists. Economists who can spread the word and be believed. I say Thai economists as the locals would not believe a farang. If anyone thinks they can work in the fields doing manual labour growing a rice crop for the amount of time they do and still harvest at a profit, they are deluding themselves. Putting quality to one side, the end result just does not add up. Constant over irrigation and poor quality chemical fertilizers are only making things worse and reducing yields. No-one ever 'rests' a field for a year or two as the call of the baht is too great.

I have been trying for a very long time to convince those I know to diversify, reduce the amount of rice planted (in line with government and Royal instructions) and go for crops that will yield a larger profit margin. Now is not the time to get into rubber but ground nuts and macadamia nuts will bring good returns. Good quality bananas are also in high demand.

[BadBouy]

OP Many have commented on rice growing from a business economic stand point but if you consider it as a hobby it might be a worth while en devour for her. If she likes doing it, preoccupies her time, and it is healthy and constructive I say let her have at it. In the end you get rice to eat, it makes her happy seems better than being married to a shopaholic you cannot eat shoes or clothes. Perhaps ask her for a small section of land and plant some other things as suggested, if she has other things to eat and can turn a profit she may see the light and diversify her hobby and make it profitable and it could grow into something you both enjoy. All the best to you and you bride.

[MediaWatcher]

You are farang and know nothing, rarely will you get them to change, they follow the same ways that their father did, who followed his father etc. They have never been taught to think about costs. In many cases they would be better off buying rice and investing in a cash crop, Dao coffee is looking for more growers, and have in fact mentioned Isaan as a suitable area. The other issue is that they carve up the land each generation, they need to amalgamate their land a go for larger scale agriculture.

[mikiea]

No big money in growing rice.We grow enough to eat, organically.

Eat organically? I've not tried that, or am I missing out on something?

Or grow organically and eat? But I will forgive you, if English is not your first language

[mikiea]

you will forgive him ? dude i will forgive you for being a twit

[Robert24]

I'm no expert, but maybe ROI is not as bad as you think. Here a rough calculation based on my assumptions:

9 rai: 600 kg rice per rai - 3 times per year. = 16.2 tonnes.

Assuming she can sell for 8000 baht per tonne = 130k baht revenue.

Cost for fertilizer, hormone etc: say about 5000 baht per rai = 45k baht.

Net return = around 85k baht per year.

Are my calculations about right? Anything I'm missing?

Investment is very low, assuming your wife owns the land and only needs to buy hormone, fertilizer, seed. So your return on minimal investment is quite good. And as far as I understand it, work for growing rice is not that hard.

What are your alternative options for the 9 rai land? Guess you cannot grow anything else than rice on this land, right? So your only alternative would be to rent out the land which is very low too, been told about 1000 baht per rai per year. So guess this would be around 9000 baht return per year in your example.

[wernerkl]

why is it, that some (most) far(lllll)angs living in thailand for some odd 10, 15, 20, (and after that i think they would not do it any more - no i am wrong it is a matter of nationalities, colonialists) years are still always trying to teach thais and bashing them for theit chosen style of life. Such comments are even against the roayal family as they advice them to do what they do: self sufficiency?!?!?!?!?! if someone does not want to support their chosen style of living there is a simple answer:"keep her in doors" and go for a piss up with my mates. As my mates are very similar - criticising thais all the time - i stopped drinking with them.

[stoli]

For how many years did I grow corn at home that probably cost me $4 an ear by the time I got done, considering seeds, fertilizers, water, tools, rabbit fencing, and so on. At the same time, the stores would have sales on corn of 8 ears for a $1. Yet year after year I still grew it????

[rct99q]

Hard work? Please explain your definition of hard work. Albeit we only have about 5 rai it would not be what I call hard work. A couple of weeks of some stiff labor over 4 or 5 months of growing is not hard work. Also if everybody gave up and started buying their staples from Tesco just what would the results be? Think about it for a moment.

I have never paid for any of our production yet our family makes money and provides us with rice at every meal every day, all year long.. I have friends in Canada who without subsidies from the government would face financial ruin on wheat, rice, and corn as well as dairy, and the grand daddy of them all....poultry farms. Bad farming economics us not just a Thai problem.

[lvr181]

Hard work? Please explain your definition of hard work. Albeit we only have about 5 rai it would not be what I call hard work. A couple of weeks of some stiff labor over 4 or 5 months of growing is not hard work. Also if everybody gave up and started buying their staples from Tesco just what would the results be? Think about it for a moment.

I have never paid for any of our production yet our family makes money and provides us with rice at every meal every day, all year long.. I have friends in Canada who without subsidies from the government would face financial ruin on wheat, rice, and corn as well as dairy, and the grand daddy of them all....poultry farms. Bad farming economics us not just a Thai problem.

"Also if everybody gave up and started buying their staples from Tesco just what would the results be? Think about it for a moment." Many people working at Tesco would not have a job!

[belg]

1.000.000 baht income per year and you blabla about a sack of rice of 150 baht ?

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

see it as a hobby, an occupation ...

you want the misses & her family to sit next to you all day ?

[nitecm]

How much is the price of rice around chiang mai without de husk and anyone has any stock want to sell

At the mountain area is about 120Baht in a 20 L container .It is about 13.5 Kg

after de husk it will get 10 kg rice and 3.5kg husk and broken rice ..It will use for the feed of chicken

It cost me about 3 baht to transport to Chiang mai .

So the cost of the rice is about 15 baht per kg and I assume it is the lowest grade .But I need to buy difference grade of rice to sell . Of course I can order from rice milling factory .How much is the price of rice around chiang mai without de husk and anyone has any stock want to sell

[ALFREDO]

I'm no expert, but maybe ROI is not as bad as you think. Here a rough calculation based on my assumptions:

9 rai: 600 kg rice per rai - 3 times per year. = 16.2 tonnes.

Assuming she can sell for 8000 baht per tonne = 130k baht revenue.

Cost for fertilizer, hormone etc: say about 5000 baht per rai = 45k baht.

Net return = around 85k baht per year.

Are my calculations about right? Anything I'm missing?

Investment is very low, assuming your wife owns the land and only needs to buy hormone, fertilizer, seed. So your return on minimal investment is quite good. And as far as I understand it, work for growing rice is not that hard.

What are your alternative options for the 9 rai land? Guess you cannot grow anything else than rice on this land, right? So your only alternative would be to rent out the land which is very low too, been told about 1000 baht per rai per year. So guess this would be around 9000 baht return per year in your example.

3 times per year? Most times have only 1 season here for rice in Udon T. - Sakhon N.

[khwaibah]

I'm no expert, but maybe ROI is not as bad as you think. Here a rough calculation based on my assumptions:

9 rai: 600 kg rice per rai - 3 times per year. = 16.2 tonnes.

Assuming she can sell for 8000 baht per tonne = 130k baht revenue.

Cost for fertilizer, hormone etc: say about 5000 baht per rai = 45k baht.

Net return = around 85k baht per year.

Are my calculations about right? Anything I'm missing?

Investment is very low, assuming your wife owns the land and only needs to buy hormone, fertilizer, seed. So your return on minimal investment is quite good. And as far as I understand it, work for growing rice is not that hard.

What are your alternative options for the 9 rai land? Guess you cannot grow anything else than rice on this land, right? So your only alternative would be to rent out the land which is very low too, been told about 1000 baht per rai per year. So guess this would be around 9000 baht return per year in your example.

3 times per year? Most times have only 1 season here for rice in Udon T. - Sakhon N.

50% of Thailand only gets one crop per year.