UK MPs to vote on recognising Palestine as a state

[Steely Dan]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals, sadly the UK seems to have been serially on the wrong side of history for the last thirty years or so, since the liberal left infected it at its grass roots.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5288/israel_palestine_uk_parliament_s_vote_for_terrorism

[Jay Sata]

The London vote follows Sweden's intention to recognise Palestine as a state.

There is a groundswell of opinion that will force Israel to play fair and stop the blockade of Gaza and land grabbing in the West Bank.

Various countries and organisations have now pledged over 4.5 billion dollar to repair the

terrible damage to the Gaza infrastructure and civilian population by Netanyahu and

his right wing bullies.

World opinion supports two state solution and pre 1967 borders.

John Kerry also echoed US support a couple of days ago.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Chicog]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals, sadly the UK seems to have been serially on the wrong side of history for the last thirty years or so, since the liberal left infected it at its grass roots.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5288/israel_palestine_uk_parliament_s_vote_for_terrorism

They are not recognising a terrorist entity, they are recognising a state.

I'm sure the intention is to encourage the replacement of Hamas with a more moderate government.

Certainly maintaining the status quo isn't going to do it, nor has it ever shown signs that it will.

[Jingthing]

John Kerry also echoed US support for the UK or the US or the UN UNILATERALLY (without Israel) recognizing a Palestinian state with specific borders?

I don't think so!

Yes, many countries have recognized Palestine as a state.

For whatever that's worth.

Back to the topic ... here's some interesting "inside baseball" (do Brits say inside cricket?) about the politics of this vote in the UK:

http://www.jpost.com/International/UKs-Labor-party-divided-ahead-of-Parliament-vote-on-recognizing-Palestinian-state-378697

[Jingthing]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals, sadly the UK seems to have been serially on the wrong side of history for the last thirty years or so, since the liberal left infected it at its grass roots.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5288/israel_palestine_uk_parliament_s_vote_for_terrorism

They are not recognising a terrorist entity, they are recognising a state.

I'm sure the intention is to encourage the replacement of Hamas with a more moderate government.

Certainly maintaining the status quo isn't going to do it, nor has it ever shown signs that it will.

The trouble with that is that Hamas enjoys a lot of Palestinian public support in Gaza, West Bank, and the Palestinian diaspora as well. Probably more than Abbas the last time I checked. Hamas is not for a two state solution implied by recognition votes as in the UK. Hamas is for a one state solution with the Jews gone, whether exiled or dead if necessary.

There is an internal political story to all this related to Abbas. He's old. He's politically weak. He hasn't done much for his people. He's taking a shot at a legacy (with this push for unilateral statehood recognition) but again he's still not very popular among his OWN people!

Anyway, for people who are supporting this tactic of Abbas and their goal is an eventual two states, living side by side IN PEACE, then I certainly share that GOAL ... and I know a large percentage of global Jews share that goal as well. The tactics ... the partnership with Hamas ... THAT I question.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals, sadly the UK seems to have been serially on the wrong side of history for the last thirty years or so, since the liberal left infected it at its grass roots.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5288/israel_palestine_uk_parliament_s_vote_for_terrorism

They are not recognising a terrorist entity, they are recognising a state.

A state governed by a terrorist organization that would be violating treaties to negotiate directly with Israel about becoming a state. Hasn't the UK gotten in the middle of all this before?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals..........

Really?

It worked to bring peace to Northern Ireland, it worked to bring about a peaceful transition in South Africa; to name just two examples in recent history.

Why can't it work in Palestine?

Not forgetting, of course, that Menachem Begin and David Ben-Gurion and other Jewish/Israeli leaders were themselves at one time deemed to be terrorists!

[Chicog]

To recognize a terrorist entity sends out all the wrong signals, sadly the UK seems to have been serially on the wrong side of history for the last thirty years or so, since the liberal left infected it at its grass roots.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5288/israel_palestine_uk_parliament_s_vote_for_terrorism

They are not recognising a terrorist entity, they are recognising a state.

A state governed by a terrorist organization that would be violating treaties to negotiate directly with Israel about becoming a state. Hasn't the UK gotten in the middle of all this before?

I don't see this as taking sides.

In fact not doing it is essentially tacit approval for Israel's actions.

[jacky54]

Why can't it work in Palestine?

Because the Islamists do not and will not recognise Israel? just a guess, but it is a hamas stated belief for one. You can't negotiate with unreasonable people who demand their own recognition, but who refuse to even recognise a legitimate country.

[7by7]

We have been down this road many, many times before.

From Wikipedia

Current status of the Charter

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor, senior adviser to the Carter Center, that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons".[91] Hamas do not use the Charter on their website and prefer to use their election manifesto to put forth their agenda.[92][93] Pastor states that those who quote the charter rather than more recent Hamas statements may be using the Charter as an excuse to ignore Hamas.[91]

British diplomat and former British ambassador to the United Nations Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006".[94] Mohammed Nimer of American University comments on the Charter, "It's a tract meant to mobilize support and it should be amended.... It projects anger, not vision."[95] Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh, has questioned the use of the charter by Israel and its supporters to brand Hamas as a fundamentalist, terrorist, racist, anti-Semitic organization and claims that they have taken parts of the charter out of context for propaganda purposes. He claims that they dwell on the charter and ignore that Hamas has changed its views with time.[96]

Forget its Charter, Hamas has given de facto recognition to the State of Israel; which concludes

Meanwhile, Hamas has expressed a willingness to pursue a long-term hudna (truce) with Israel based on the 1967 armistice lines, and it joined the unity government which recognises the State of Israel. The beginning of a more nuanced understanding of the conflict would be an explicit acknowledgment by Israel and its allies of the Islamic Resistance Movement's shift in this respect.

I will grant you that there are extremists who do not follow the official Hamas line.

[Ulysses G.]

It has been pointed out to you time after time that information ignores other leaders saying completely different things. It is typical Islamic terrorist doublespeak and it is not the "official Hamas line". The official Hamas line is in their charter, which they have never rescinded. Hamas' genocidal charter is what the UK would be recognizing with Hamas as part of the Palestinian government.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[7by7]

Did you read the last line of my post?

I'll repeat it for you: "I will grant you that there are extremists who do not follow the official Hamas line."

Did you read any of it?

Unfortunately, the Israeli government refuse to accept this change of attitude and aims by Hamas as much as you do. Unfortunately, no matter what Hamas say or do, there will never be peace in the region until the Israeli government do accept this change in Hamas' objectives.

The ball is firmly in the Israeli government's court and the world is watching.

[Ulysses G.]

Let's try again. It is NOT the official Hamas line. That is your spin on the matter. The official line is their genocidal charter, which they have never rescinded.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Change the charter. This "truce" to the Hamas perspective has been clearly indicated as a stepping stone to their clear and obvious ultimate goal -- the extermination of Zionism and Israel (millions of Jewish people). Do not be fooled by progressive spin, Hamas is as bad as ISIS.

[jacky54]

the 'cannot be changed for internal reasons' is the most pathetic excuse for hate I have ever seen, what 'reasons'?

Edited October 13, 2014 by jacky54

[jacky54]

Unfortunately, the Israeli government refuse to accept this change of attitude and aims by Hamas as much as you do. Unfortunately, no matter what Hamas say or do, there will never be peace in the region until the Israeli government do accept this change in Hamas' objectives.

Bloody lies as usual, the is no change from hamas. If there was why did they kidnap 3 Israelis recently and then kill them to instigate another conflict where they would have the opportunity to launch nearly 2.000 rockets into Israel, to kill more Israelis. The only thing hamas say are lies and the only thing they want to do is kill Israelis and to destroy Israel.

[7by7]

I only hope that the Israeli government is not as entrenched in their hatred and prejudice as the preceding three posters.

If they are, there will never be peace until Israel has destroyed Palestine; which many believe, with justification, is the aim of the current Israeli government!

[Ulysses G.]

Imagine hating a terrorist group that calls for the destruction of your country and Jews all over the world.

[Chicog]

Imagine hating a terrorist group that calls for the destruction of your country and Jews all over the world.

Imagine hating a terrorist group who routinely shells you, bombs you, starves you and cuts off your power.

It's a two way street UG.

Violence begets violence.

[Jingthing]

I only hope that the Israeli government is not as entrenched in their hatred and prejudice as the preceding three posters.

If they are, there will never be peace until Israel has destroyed Palestine; which many believe, with justification, is the aim of the current Israeli government!

Hatred of Hamas is logical. They indeed do have genocidal intentions. The UK if they do this are sending the wrong message.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[7by7]

I only hope that the Israeli government is not as entrenched in their hatred and prejudice as the preceding three posters.

If they are, there will never be peace until Israel has destroyed Palestine; which many believe, with justification, is the aim of the current Israeli government!

Hatred of Hamas is logical. They indeed do have genocidal intentions. The UK if they do this are sending the wrong message.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And therein lies the problem.

Hamas have changed; but the Israeli government and their supporters refuse to acknowledge that this is so.

Supporting the rights of the Palestinians and the right of the Palestinian state to exist is fundamental to a two state solution.

But it seems a two state solution is not what the current Israeli government wants; so they use out dated and superseded documents to justify the continuation of their oppressive policies.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jacky54]

strewth be a bit hard to make apologies for that hate video brainwashing kids to want to kill, if that's not evil then I don't know what is

[dr_lucas]

I only hope that the Israeli government is not as entrenched in their hatred and prejudice as the preceding three posters.

If they are, there will never be peace until Israel has destroyed Palestine; which many believe, with justification, is the aim of the current Israeli government!

Hatred of Hamas is logical. They indeed do have genocidal intentions. The UK if they do this are sending the wrong message.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And therein lies the problem.

Hamas have changed; but the Israeli government and their supporters refuse to acknowledge that this is so.

Supporting the rights of the Palestinians and the right of the Palestinian state to exist is fundamental to a two state solution.

But it seems a two state solution is not what the current Israeli government wants; so they use out dated and superseded documents to justify the continuation of their oppressive policies.

Hamas have changed? Why? Because you say so or because you want to believe so or because you want others to believe so?

True. Supporting the right of the Palestinians and the right of the Palestinian state to exist is fundamental to a two state solution. So is supporting the right of Israel to exist, which Hamas does not. This should come first.

[NeverSure]

I only hope that the Israeli government is not as entrenched in their hatred and prejudice as the preceding three posters.

If they are, there will never be peace until Israel has destroyed Palestine; which many believe, with justification, is the aim of the current Israeli government!

Hatred of Hamas is logical. They indeed do have genocidal intentions. The UK if they do this are sending the wrong message.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And therein lies the problem.

Hamas have changed; but the Israeli government and their supporters refuse to acknowledge that this is so.

Supporting the rights of the Palestinians and the right of the Palestinian state to exist is fundamental to a two state solution.

But it seems a two state solution is not what the current Israeli government wants; so they use out dated and superseded documents to justify the continuation of their oppressive policies.

Hamas have changed? Why? Because you say so or because you want to believe so or because you want others to believe so?

True. Supporting the right of the Palestinians and the right of the Palestinian state to exist is fundamental to a two state solution. So is supporting the right of Israel to exist, which Hamas does not. This should come first.

Good post and I "liked" it.

Just one thing. There isn't and never has been "the Palestinian state" and may not be in my lifetime due to their terrorist culture. "Palestine" as they like call it, and "Palestinians" as they like to call themselves is not and has never been a country. The so-called Palestinians hijacked that name and took the name of Palestine for themselves well after WWII.

[tw25rw]

Hamas are only labelled as “ terrorists “ because it is convenient for Israel for them to be regarded as such

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119064/b-yehoshua-israel-should-call-hamas-enemy-not-terrorists

Their main tactic is terrorism, so it's hard to think of a more appropriate term.

[Thorgal]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

Your source is from PMW or Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli propaganda media that makes the Palestinians always look bad.

PMW owner, Itamar Marcus lives in an illigal settlement in the West Bank.

Did you expect any objectivity from this media source ?

[jacky54]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

Your source is from PMW or Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli propaganda media that makes the Palestinians always look bad.

PMW owner, Itamar Marcus lives in an illigal settlement in the West Bank.

Did you expect any objectivity from this media source ?

Are you saying the programme is fake or that it is somehow untrue just because of who redistributed it? Let me guess 'out of context' 'these are not real Palestinians', or how about it's really Jewish propaganda. Some of you apologists do come across as rather desperate at times. You are right about one thing teaching little kids to hate and kill always looks bad- because it IS.

Edited October 13, 2014 by jacky54

[tw25rw]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

Your source is from PMW or Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli propaganda media that makes the Palestinians always look bad.

PMW owner, Itamar Marcus lives in an illigal settlement in the West Bank.

Did you expect any objectivity from this media source ?

Regardless of what one thinks of Israel, hoping for peace while Hamas are in charge is futile. And the people there voted for them!

[Thorgal]

Hamas have not changed. What nonsense. Will the UK recognize this kind of hatred?

Your source is from PMW or Palestinian Media Watch, an Israeli propaganda media that makes the Palestinians always look bad.

PMW owner, Itamar Marcus lives in an illigal settlement in the West Bank.

Did you expect any objectivity from this media source ?

Are you saying the programme is fake or that it is somehow untrue just because of who redistributed it? Let me guess 'out of context' 'these are not real Palestinians', or how about it's really Jewish propaganda. Some of you apologists do come across as rather desperate at times. You are right about one thing teaching little kids to hate and kill always looks bad- because it IS.

It's a local remake of The Decameron of Boccaccio...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decameron

Edited October 13, 2014 by Thorgal