Cleaning up an SR400 engine cosmetically

[darkian]

I am working on an SR400 project bike of sorts - it's on the road but I'd like to get it looking really good. The engine though is really dull, although at some point I think the outer engine cases have been removed and buffed up. What I'd really is to get the engine looking like this...

Doing that 'in situ' isn't really viable. Sure I could get some polish etc, but I think to do this properly it wants to come apart for an overhaul and a clean up - maybe get the cylinder barrel/head blasted, and then go back together with new bolts.

Are there likely to be places here that can help? I have some contacts who I can ask for ideas but wondered if anyone here knows of a workshop who could help. I'm happy to remove the engine and get it there. Ideally it would be a place who know about SR engines. Also what sort of cost would an engine overhaul and clean-up cost (exclusive of any new parts)?

I will ask at Gigabike next week on Rama II, but any other suggestions gladly welcomed.

Thanks!

[Kwasaki]

One of the good things about Thailand is you can get all sorts of things done and at reasonable cost.

I would of thought in Bangkok there's loads of places to do that work.

Not many to the North where I live but can still get about anything done on a motorbike, goodluck.

[pokerkid]

try baking soda blasting

[taichiplanet]

the best finish would be ceramic coating, then it never dulls, probably expensive but worth it. maybe powder coating, but would that stand up to the heat?

seems to be mixed views on whether powder coating would handle the heat, while ceramic can handle upto 2000F

maybe powder coat the outside of everything except the cylinder head. the cyl head bead blast and paint with a high temp silver (if such a thing exists in Thailand as a good quality high temp paint! i guess the same can be said for correct application of ceramic and powder coatings!!)

i had a GB400 done up here, the alloy bottom end was polished and clear coated which looked good. Don't know if it would hold up over time but it should. They made a mess of the cylinder head though, by painting it with ordinary paint. As soon as i saw it i knew it would burn off, which it did.

an interesting blog on powder coating

https://gordsgarage.wordpress.com/tag/diy-powder-coating/

[yankee99]

You can soda blast then you will need to re-plate or anodize or restore the finish to oem or custom. Its a good project but it will take time to source shops to do this work.

[darkian]

Thanks for all the comments! Lots to think about.

[Dutchbike]

Went from this:

with a lot of manual labor, very fine sanding paper, steel wool and metall/alu polish, repeating is the magic word and finally ending up with this:

This stuff is really magic but never saw it in Thailand.

[AllanB]

My knowledge goes back 5 years, so may be out of date in the west, but powder coating is usually a polyester, or nylon material, neither of which will take the temperature. If you plan on stripping the engine, get it anodized, I plan on cleaning up the engine on my 30 year old NV400 but don't plan on stripping it, as I don't trust Thais to do the job without anodizing everything, since it has to be immersed.

So I am searching for a paint/spray product while I am in the UK, so thanks for reminding me, anyway I have found this.. http://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/vht-clear-coat/.

The way this guy on the video is blasting the engine with an abrasive under high pressure is worrying, so not for me. My aim is to keep the bike good on the inside after it is looking good on the outside.

[ttakata]

My experience with clearcoat on polished aluminum is the clearcoat chips off easy since it has no rough surface to adhere to.

I had some Boyd Coddington wheels and they were raw polished probably for the same reason.

The problem with raw polished is the AL oxidizes and turns matte fast.

So if a shiny ceramic finish can't be found maybe someone can chrome aluminum although that might be beyond Thailand too.

[AllanB]

My experience with clearcoat on polished aluminum is the clearcoat chips off easy since it has no rough surface to adhere to.

I had some Boyd Coddington wheels and they were raw polished probably for the same reason.

The problem with raw polished is the AL oxidizes and turns matte fast.

So if a shiny ceramic finish can't be found maybe someone can chrome aluminum although that might be beyond Thailand too.

That is why you need a lacquer that is made for aluminium, it must have an etch primer built in to prevent further oxidisation and subsequent flaking. I am currently posing the question to a number of suppliers and will report their claims.

Chroming require a polish process, very difficult on something like the block's cooling fins, in Thailand? forget it.

[AllanB]

Went from this:NSR project (1).JPG

with a lot of manual labor, very fine sanding paper, steel wool and metall/alu polish, repeating is the magic word and finally ending up with this:NSR project (45).JPGNSR project (46).JPG

This stuff is really magic but never saw it in Thailand.belgom_alu.jpg

This stuff sounds like the answer Dutchbike, here is what people who use it say about the product.

Excellent studd

By Rd Harper on 25 Oct 2012

Verified Purchase

I have been using this product for more than 20 years. I use it on my motorcycles, alloys casings, chrome etc. and I use to polish my stainless steel sink in my kitchens. Lasts a long time and keeps everything corrosion free. Highly recommended as it is "low abrasive" yet makes everything like new!

Recommended

By John Chapman on 13 April 2013

Verified Purchase

Does exactly what it says on the can, I am on my fourth bottle , I use it to coat and protect chrome, alloy and polished bare metal on my motorbike it leaves behind a protective waxiness , two years in so far so good.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belgom-Aluminium-Polish-Motorcycles-Polishing/dp/B001QZY1IU

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=belgom+alu&_sop=2

May bring back a pot.

[Overandout]

I knew a guy who was building a custom chopper with a GS1000 motor. He sent the barrels and head to be sand blasted and the idiots who did it forgot to protect the internal surfaces.

Result was a very clean but useless engine.... You have been warned.

Also I once had an RD200 (aircooled 2 stroke for those that don't know). It had the cases, barrels and heads plastic coated in black. It looked great and the finish stood up to the temperatures, BUT the coating kept the fins from cooling the engine properly so it would never do more than about 7 - 8 miles of "high" speed running before heat seizing... again, be warned!!

[darkian]

Ok so I'm not going for what was in the original photo, but a clean-up is in order. Today I bought Simple Green (aircraft and precision) for the engine, the Simple Green stainless cleaner for the stainless, and some brasso. Would be nice to find Autosol but I don't know anywhere here that stocks it.

Also would be good to replace some of the nuts and bolts - anyone here know of a good shop for them, like decent quality allen bolts and nyloc nuts?

[EddieHaskel]

A marine/boat shop probably would have stainless fasteners.

[Spoonman]

Darkian,

My bike mechanic is very good and know's SR engines inside out (he just stretched my 400 to 540 and does all the mechanical work on my managers SR) if you are looking for someone to pull it down and get it polished/powder coated/detailed.

He is located in Laem Chabang (actually works with me but he does bikes on the side from his brothers bike shop).

For Stainless cap head bolts and nyloks most of the ones in my engine came from Hardware House.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Spoonman

[AllanB]

Ok so I'm not going for what was in the original photo, but a clean-up is in order. Today I bought Simple Green (aircraft and precision) for the engine, the Simple Green stainless cleaner for the stainless, and some brasso. Would be nice to find Autosol but I don't know anywhere here that stocks it.

Also would be good to replace some of the nuts and bolts - anyone here know of a good shop for them, like decent quality allen bolts and nyloc nuts?

I have used Autosol on the engine and ally seat frame, it looks good for a couple of days and then starts to oxidise, loses it's shine and looks crap, the Belgom I plan on using provides a protective coat to prevent this. During the rainy season, the Autosol shine lasts only a day.

I will be back form the Uk later on this month......

[darkian]

Thanks Spoonman, I may have to visit your man at some point.

AllanB - ok thanks, that's worth knowing. I always thought Autosol was a good one. I'm visiting Europe later this year so can buy some supplies then if need be.

[ClutchClark]

I knew a guy who was building a custom chopper with a GS1000 motor. He sent the barrels and head to be sand blasted and the idiots who did it forgot to protect the internal surfaces.

Result was a very clean but useless engine.... You have been warned.

Also I once had an RD200 (aircooled 2 stroke for those that don't know). It had the cases, barrels and heads plastic coated in black. It looked great and the finish stood up to the temperatures, BUT the coating kept the fins from cooling the engine properly so it would never do more than about 7 - 8 miles of "high" speed running before heat seizing... again, be warned!!

My concern exactly when someone suggested allowing some shop in Thailand to perform the work.

A Dremel tool and some quality polish would brighten it right up without the need for complete disassembly--only removal from bike.

Cheers

[AllanB]

Thanks Spoonman, I may have to visit your man at some point.

AllanB - ok thanks, that's worth knowing. I always thought Autosol was a good one. I'm visiting Europe later this year so can buy some supplies then if need be.

I will buy some and be back at the end of this month, I will let you know how ell it works.

[pokerkid]

video about handcleaning vs soda blasting

[ClutchClark]

video about handcleaning vs soda blasting

Yep, nothing like a hand-job to really make it shine.

I suppose the good thing about baking soda is that atleast it has less chance to plug up when it gets oversprayed inside a carb.

Edited October 14, 2014 by ClutchClark

[yankee99]

A marine/boat shop probably would have stainless fasteners.

stainless fasteners are usually much weaker then plated ones.

[Dutchbike]

A marine/boat shop probably would have stainless fasteners.

stainless fasteners are usually much weaker then plated ones.

True, so you want to use stainless fasteners best go for the best quality availble which is A4 - 316 AISI Also bear in mind that the combination Aluminium/Stainless fasteners causes corrosion, where the lower quality metal ( aluminium) is "eaten" by the stainless.

A1  DIN 1.4305  303 AISI

A2  DIN 1.4303  305 AISI

A2  DIN 1.4301  304 AISI

A4  DIN 1.4401  316 AISI

[yankee99]

A marine/boat shop probably would have stainless fasteners.

stainless fasteners are usually much weaker then plated ones.

True, so you want to use stainless fasteners best go for the best quality availble which is A4 - 316 AISI Also bear in mind that the combination Aluminium/Stainless fasteners causes corrosion, where the lower quality metal ( aluminium) is "eaten" by the stainless.

A1  DIN 1.4305  303 AISI

A2  DIN 1.4303  305 AISI

A2  DIN 1.4301  304 AISI

A4  DIN 1.4401  316 AISI

ill bet those cost a few baht here in LOS

[Dutchbike]

Thanks Spoonman, I may have to visit your man at some point.

AllanB - ok thanks, that's worth knowing. I always thought Autosol was a good one. I'm visiting Europe later this year so can buy some supplies then if need be.

I will buy some and be back at the end of this month, I will let you know how ell it works.

Hi AllanB, let me know if you have room in your suitcase for another pot of Belgom Alu, I'm almost running out of stock can pay you in advance.

[AllanB]

Cleaning aluminium is not really about the actual cleaning process, after all carb cleaner will do a reasonable job of that, is about protecting the material afterwards. All abrasive cleaning methods remove the original protective anodising shield and that must be replaced by something, otherwise the surface will quickly re-oxidise and you are back to square one.

I personally wouldn't use any form of high pressure abrasive, as it will almost certainly lead to internal damage and the running of an engine is far more important that what it looks like, or at least it is if you plan on riding the bike. High pressure abrasive surface cleaning is normally followed by final machining, prior to reassembly.

[AllanB]

Thanks Spoonman, I may have to visit your man at some point.

AllanB - ok thanks, that's worth knowing. I always thought Autosol was a good one. I'm visiting Europe later this year so can buy some supplies then if need be.

I will buy some and be back at the end of this month, I will let you know how ell it works.

Hi AllanB, let me know if you have room in your suitcase for another pot of Belgom Alu, I'm almost running out of stock can pay you in advance.

Okay I will buy two, if this works it may be worth importing some and getting my wife to sell it in Thailand, as so many of the other products like Autosol and Brasso don't work long term. Like everything else not always the best products prevail in the marketplace.

For example...Many years ago I was renovating a classic Range Rover which had some rust problems, it wasn't economically viable to remove all the rust by going back to bare metal throughout, so I was looking for an inhibitor. I had a lot of experience of the commonly available products and all lasted only a short time before the rust bubbled through again. Then I read an article in Classic Car magazine where they tested a half a dozen of these rust inhibitors and one stood out a mile. Unlike all the others it beat, the winner was made by a little, obscure company in eastern England, so I bought a can.

The 1 litre can was as heavy as lead, as apparently it was almost 100% zinc, so I painted the bad areas and finished the vehicle. I kept that RR for over 4 years and nothing came through. Like me, the guy I sold it to was very impressed.

[Dutchbike]

Thanks Spoonman, I may have to visit your man at some point.

AllanB - ok thanks, that's worth knowing. I always thought Autosol was a good one. I'm visiting Europe later this year so can buy some supplies then if need be.

I will buy some and be back at the end of this month, I will let you know how ell it works.

Hi AllanB, let me know if you have room in your suitcase for another pot of Belgom Alu, I'm almost running out of stock can pay you in advance.

Okay I will buy two, if this works it may be worth importing some and getting my wife to sell it in Thailand, as so many of the other products like Autosol and Brasso don't work long term. Like everything else not always the best products prevail in the marketplace.

For example...Many years ago I was renovating a classic Range Rover which had some rust problems, it wasn't economically viable to remove all the rust by going back to bare metal throughout, so I was looking for an inhibitor. I had a lot of experience of the commonly available products and all lasted only a short time before the rust bubbled through again. Then I read an article in Classic Car magazine where they tested a half a dozen of these rust inhibitors and one stood out a mile. Unlike all the others it beat, the winner was made by a little, obscure company in eastern England, so I bought a can.

The 1 litre can was as heavy as lead, as apparently it was almost 100% zinc, so I painted the bad areas and finished the vehicle. I kept that RR for over 4 years and nothing came through. Like me, the guy I sold it to was very impressed.

Thanks!! send me a PM for your details.

I've been using this stuff for about 30 years and it's really good, but it needs manual labor and a lot of repeating before you have the shiny result, apply with a cloth which will turn black then use a clean cloth, and again and again. After you happy with the result it only needs every now and then a quick polish to restore the gloss.

I used it on the valve covers of old twin cam Alfa engines, which took quite some hours but the results where great.

With bike engine casings, I start with steelwool/fine sanding paper and then use the Belgom, again, it's takes a fair bit of time but the results are rewarding.

[AllanB]

Just a thought Dutchbike......

How about if you introduced something like Autosol to remove the oxide layer and then Belgrom as a final polishing process and providing the protective layer?

[darkian]

Darkian,

My bike mechanic is very good and know's SR engines inside out (he just stretched my 400 to 540 and does all the mechanical work on my managers SR) if you are looking for someone to pull it down and get it polished/powder coated/detailed.

Out of interest how did he increase the capacity? Did he use a 500 crankshaft and top-end and bore it out?

It'd be tempting to find some 500 bits and have that done to mine. When I have a second bike, which should be next month, I'd be tempted to take the engine out of the SR, borrow a car and bring it down.