ISIS' reasons for enslaving women

[Thorgal]

Little or no people on this forum know and understand the origin and doctrine of Salafist Islamists.

If you did you would know the difference with moderate muslims and other scholars.

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Thorgal

[H1w4yR1da]

2 excellent posts Matt.

Edited October 19, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[H1w4yR1da]

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

If it's in the book in black and white, how on earth is referring to it, propaganda? Shocking PC, in denial, liberal thinking! Edited October 19, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[samran]

OK, 7by7 and samran..........Just a yes or no answer will do, nooooooooooo buggering around with stuff...

Are Muslim folk killing, raping innocent folk worldwide NOW because of their books writings that they follow in 2014 ......

YES or NO...?

Is that an order or a request?

Demanding little man you are. Saw your deleted post. Not taking part in your hysterical violent fantasy hypotheticals.

How was your muslim wedding last week. Any suicide bombings at the reception?

Edited October 19, 2014 by samran

[arjunadawn]

Little or no people on this forum know and understand the origin and doctrine of Salafist Islamists.

If you did you would know the difference with moderate muslims and other scholars.

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

Good observation but the salafists, for which I too am no expert, are not the only players in the game of jihad, or radical islam. So the question is further begged, from what fountain are they all drinking to reach similar objectives? Salafists may look quite similar to others in the product of their effort.

[Thorgal]

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

If it's in the book in black and white, how on earth is referring to it, propaganda? Shocking PC, in denial, liberal thinking!

You can reach several comprehensions/levels in Islam as Atheist with your person and your character.

Come back if you reach my level to be accepted, introduced and integrated in the Ibadi scholar of Islam.

And by the way, I'm Atheist.

Slavery is far under this level.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

Little or no people on this forum know and understand the origin and doctrine of Salafist Islamists.

If you did you would know the difference with moderate muslims and other scholars.

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

Good observation but the salafists, for which I too am no expert, are not the only players in the game of jihad, or radical islam. So the question is further begged, from what fountain are they all drinking to reach similar objectives? Salafists may look quite similar to others in the product of their effort.

My post doesn't refer that I've no expertise/knowledge in Radical Islamism.

Slavery is accepted in Salafist doctrine.

You won't find it in moderate Islam.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Thorgal

[arjunadawn]

Little or no people on this forum know and understand the origin and doctrine of Salafist Islamists.

If you did you would know the difference with moderate muslims and other scholars.

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

Good observation but the salafists, for which I too am no expert, are not the only players in the game of jihad, or radical islam. So the question is further begged, from what fountain are they all drinking to reach similar objectives? Salafists may look quite similar to others in the product of their effort.

My post doesn't refer that I've no expertise/knowledge in Radical Islamism.

Slavery is accepted in Salafist doctrine.

You won't find it in moderate Islam.

Forgive me if I politely exit this line of discussion in this thread: I think you may have me confused with other, perhaps more confrontational debaters you've exchanged with recently. I was only saying I am not an expert on Salafist doctrine and evolution. I then commented only that based on some prime tenets, the application of their beleifs looks similar to me to others, who of course hold different tenets but similar goals in the islamic world.

[arjunadawn]

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

If it's in the book in black and white, how on earth is referring to it, propaganda? Shocking PC, in denial, liberal thinking!

You can reach several comprehensions/levels in Islam as Atheist with your person and your character.

Come back if you reach my level to be accepted, introduced and integrated in the Ibadi scholar of Islam.

And by the way, I'm Atheist.

Slavery is far under this level.

I was not party to your earlier exchanges with some others these past number of posts yet I am curious about this above post of yours. I would genuinely like to understand. Might I ask you tell me more about each four sentences? I think the first three sentences together are fascinating, but I dont fully understand. If you can, thanks.

[Thorgal]

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

If it's in the book in black and white, how on earth is referring to it, propaganda? Shocking PC, in denial, liberal thinking!

You can reach several comprehensions/levels in Islam as Atheist with your person and your character.

Come back if you reach my level to be accepted, introduced and integrated in the Ibadi scholar of Islam.

And by the way, I'm Atheist.

Slavery is far under this level.

I was not party to your earlier exchanges with some others these past number of posts yet I am curious about this above post of yours. I would genuinely like to understand. Might I ask you tell me more about each four sentences? I think the first three sentences together are fascinating, but I dont fully understand. If you can, thanks.

Just ask any Ibadi Muslim and show what you've posted the last 3 months with my replies. Edited October 19, 2014 by Thorgal

[7by7]

OK, 7by7 and samran..........Just a yes or no answer will do, nooooooooooo buggering around with stuff...

Are Muslim folk killing, raping innocent folk worldwide NOW because of their books writings that they follow in 2014 ......

YES or NO...?

Is that an order or a request?

Demanding little man you are. Saw your deleted post. Not taking part in your hysterical violent fantasy hypotheticals.

How was your muslim wedding last week. Any suicide bombings at the reception?

I will answer, and I will give the same answer I have given the many times before this question has been asked.

ISIS and other extremists are killing people because of their interpretation of the Koran; or at least that is the excuse they are using.

But they have been condemned as unIslamic for so doing by Muslims all over the world.

But you wont believe that.

[englishoak]

You say that we are basing our prejudice on a minority of Muslims but there are literally hundreds of millions of radicals, however your only defense right now is based on the words of a handful of Muslim scholars who may well be lying due to taqiyya to defend Islam. For me actions always speak louder than words and having a few Muslims say that Islam is a peaceful religion while their brothers are crucifying, raping, pillaging and committing a mass genocide on that same day is just a ridiculous example for you to use to justify your Muslim bias.

So your whole argument is based on your assumption that Muslims who condemn ISIS and other extremists are lying?

Pathetic.

As for a 'handful of Muslim scholars' it is a lot more than just a handful; as you would know if you had bothered to read the links provided instead of merely dismissing them as lies.

OK, so you posted this video as a source of all the "moderate Muslims in the UK"

There are 3 Muslims speaking on that video.

The first guy is Shaykh Haitham al Haddad who incites war against Jews, is pushing for the London Mega-Mosque and is pushing for a Halal UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitham_al-Haddad

The 2nd guy is Ustadh Abu Eesa who is affiliated with the AlMaghrib Institute who promote terrorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Eesa_Niamatullah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlMaghrib_Institute#Stance_on_Terrorism

The 3rd guy is Imam Shakeel Begg who was the Imam at the Mosque the Lee Rigby murderers attended and got radicalised at. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10518792/Lee-Rigby-killers-had-links-to-Lewisham-mosque-that-attracts-radicals.html

Are these the lovely moderate British Muslims that we should not be afraid of are they? So 3 for 3, 100% of the people you use as a example as moderate British Muslims are exactly the sort of people you claim they are not. They are the exact type of people who I have been talking about this entire thread who are a threat to our civilised way of life and people like you are helping them achieve their goals by believing the big lie that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim.

So please, WAKE UP AND FACE THE TRUTH!!!!

Should I go through the rest of your sources and see what horrific things they have all been up to before having to speak against the IS?

Seriously you need help. I know plenty of regular Muslims, going about their lives with everyone else. These are just normal people and like every sector of society they have their own dregs. That goes for every other religion of which there are always a few radical scumbags who use their own personal and warped god theory to beat everyone else over the head with.

These ARE a very small % the vast majority are no different to you or I. ie good and decent people.

Ive a very simple way of looking at this, those that go to worship for their own personal beliefs and respect to their god are just fine, those that stand up, ram their words down others throats, preach it to everyone how they are right and everyone else is wrong and make demands of others people should be very very wary of. especially those peddling hate and they arnt all Muslim, far from it. Theres nearly always a selfish agenda involved,

As for the IS topic and excuses for treating women the way they do... there are none.... Period

To those of you trying to spread hate and division towards a whole religion, you are as much a part of the problem as those very nutters you demonise.

Edited October 19, 2014 by englishoak

[7by7]

Three out of the many sources I provided; is that all you could find?

You even missed Khilafah.com!

Had you read my posts you would know that I have said several times that some of the sources are radical Muslims with whose views on other matters I do not agree. I included them to show how condemnation of ISIS is not confined to just those we would consider moderate.

Even so, your links do not justify the accusations you have levelled at them.

Shaykh Haitham inciting war against all Jews? Not what it says in the Wikipedia entry you linked to.

Supports the building of the so called mega Mosque? So what; we have religious freedom in the UK; even though you may npt care for it.

Pushing for a Halal UK? Again, not what it says. He was one of the organisers of a Halal fun day at Legoland! An event cancelled following threats of violence from, among others, the EDL.

Where in your link to Ustadh Abu Eesa's Wikipedia page does it say he is affiliated to the AlMaghrib Institute?

Where on their page does it say he is affiliated to them?

You should also read the whole of the Telegraph article you have linked to; not just the headline and first three paragraphs.

Feel free to go through all my sources; no doubt you will find ways to twist them all to suit your prejudices.

Wow!! Seriously just wow. The level of denial and spin is quite staggering.

Not "Three out of the many sources I provided", 3 out of all 3 people in the first video you posted that I looked into. Every one of them is not the peace loving moderate Muslim that you claim the "vast majority" of Muslims are, and this is from a video you posted to show that there are decent Muslims who oppose terrorism and all of them are linked to it!!

Can I go to Dubai or Rihayd and build a small church can I? Can I even carry a bible into some Muslim countries without being arrested at the airport and made to declare that the bible is false and that Islam is the only true faith before being made to destroy my bible? Happened to a couple of Indian guys I worked with in Saudi. But what happens as soon as Muslims get to a non-Muslim country? They want to construct a Mega-Mosque in the capital and push for restaurants to serve only their food, not just have a Halal station and still serve regular food in the restaurant, no, it has to be 100% Halal. Not tolerance, no integration, OUR WAY OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

It says about Ustadh Abu Eesa right there in his Wiki entry but I'm sure you are now going to tell me that Wiki is an unreliable source and I'm wrong.

Currently, he resides in Manchester UK and is affiliated with the AlMaghrib Institute.

Shakeel Begg is the Imam at the mosque which the killers who decapitated a guy in London are linked to, and he is on tape as saying "take some money and go to Palestine and fight, fight the terrorists, fight the Zionists, does he sound like a moderate peaceful Muslim to you does he? To you he probably does.

Just bear in mind that these are the things that are known publicly about these three people who are the first that I bothered to research, do you not think that there must be much more sinister things relating to these radical characters which are not in the news?

Spin away...

I accept that I missed the bit about Abu Eesa Niamatullah's affiliation; you have my apologies for that. But your Wikipedia link to the AlMaghrib Institute does not say, as you claim, that they are a terrorist organisation. At best you can claim that some of their ex students have been terrorists.

As for the rest of your post:-

Yes. just three sources out of many; and I did not claim that all my sources were peace loving moderates; on the contrary!

That other countries do not allow religious freedom is no excuse to ban it in the UK. In the UK we enjoy many freedoms which less fortunate people in other countries do not; would you ban all those freedoms as well?

If a Muslim, or anyone else, wants to open a Halal restaurant, that is up to them. No one will force you or anyone else to eat in it; there's plenty of other places you can go

BTW, do you object to Kosher as much as you object to Halal? They are in most respects the same. Is your objection on animal cruelty grounds, or simple prejudice?

Organising a 'Halal fun day' at Legoland is not forcing people to eat only Halal food!

The murderers of Lee Rigby had attended on occasion that particular mosque; but there is no evidence to link it's Imam, Shakeel Begg, to them; not even in the Telegraph piece you linked to.

Many people have urged people to fight on the Palestinians side. Many non Israeli Jews have volunteered to fight on the Israeli side. Are they terrorists, too?

But as I said when I provided the sources, and as I have said since, not all the sources are moderates; some are radicals with whom I disagree on many subjects.

But one thing all my sources have in common, moderates and radicals, is their condemnation of ISIS as un Islamic.

Moderate Muslims condemn ISIS.

Radical Muslims condemn ISIS.

Something you have not been able to disprove or discredit.

Unless you come up with evidence that one of these three, or any of my other sources, has said something to support ISIS your attempts to discredit them are just meaningless hot air and so I will not be responding to them any further.

In the meantime; I have dealt with all the points you have raised and answered all the questions asked me.

Will you now do the same?

Edited October 19, 2014 by 7by7

[KunMatt]

I accept that I missed the bit about Abu Eesa Niamatullah's affiliation; you have my apologies for that. But your Wikipedia link to the AlMaghrib Institute does not say, as you claim, that they are a terrorist organisation. At best you can claim that some of their ex students have been terrorists.

As for the rest of your post:-

Yes. just three sources out of many; and I did not claim that all my sources were peace loving moderates; on the contrary!

That other countries do not allow religious freedom is no excuse to ban it in the UK. In the UK we enjoy many freedoms which less fortunate people in other countries do not; would you ban all those freedoms as well?

If a Muslim, or anyone else, wants to open a Halal restaurant, that is up to them. No one will force you or anyone else to eat in it; there's plenty of other places you can go

BTW, do you object to Kosher as much as you object to Halal? They are in most respects the same. Is your objection on animal cruelty grounds, or simple prejudice?

Organising a 'Halal fun day' at Legoland is not forcing people to eat only Halal food!

The murderers of Lee Rigby had attended on occasion that particular mosque; but there is no evidence to link it's Imam, Shakeel Begg, to them; not even in the Telegraph piece you linked to.

Many people have urged people to fight on the Palestinians side. Many non Israeli Jews have volunteered to fight on the Israeli side. Are they terrorists, too?

But as I said when I provided the sources, and as I have said since, not all the sources are moderates; some are radicals with whom I disagree on many subjects.

But one thing all my sources have in common, moderates and radicals, is their condemnation of ISIS as un Islamic.

Moderate Muslims condemn ISIS.

Radical Muslims condemn ISIS.

Something you have not been able to disprove or discredit.

Unless you come up with evidence that one of these three, or any of my other sources, has said something to support ISIS your attempts to discredit them are just meaningless hot air and so I will not be responding to them any further.

In the meantime; I have dealt with all the points you have raised and answered all the questions asked me.

Will you now do the same?

Again, not 3 sources out of all of the sources you provided, don't try to twist it, 3 sources out of the 3 sources I checked are not the moderate Muslims that you would have us all believe that the vast majority of Muslims are. This has just totally proven my point about what is happening in the UK when 3 supposedly decent Muslim leaders are all nefarious characters who I don't want to have a political or religious influence over their followers the UK. Britain clearly has a jihad problem with 3 out of 3 Muslim leaders featured in a video to promote true Islam are all radical Muslims. And I don't think you just have to be a suicide bomber or fight in the IS to be a radical Muslim, I mean fighting to ensure that Islamic laws and ways are imposed and forced in the UK which is what building a mega-mosque in London and pushing for Halal restaurants is doing, just watch that Luton video again for a glimpse of how these leaders want the UK to be.

So yes, you are right, a few radical Muslims in the UK are speaking out to the IS but at the same time you showed that the same people also have links to terrorism and that is exactly why people are "Islamophobic" because all of them are not peace loving moderate Muslims, they are exactly the sort of people that non-Muslim British people should be afraid of as they try to take over and change the UK. So thanks for supporting what I already knew and have been talking about this whole thread.

I have no problem with Kosher. I have no problem with Halal. If Muslims or Jews want to open a Kosher or Halal restaurant up then that's great but what I am against is them forcing British restaurants that are already open to be 100% Halal only and stop serving non-Halal food. That is not right and that is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

[simple1]

I have no problem with Kosher. I have no problem with Halal. If Muslims or Jews want to open a Kosher or Halal restaurant up then that's great but what I am against is them forcing British restaurants that are already open to be 100% Halal only and stop serving non-Halal food. That is not right and that is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

What is the link between the topic and halal certified food / restaurants in the UK?

[Scott]

There is no link and I think it's best to get back on topic.

[KunMatt]

There is no link and I think it's best to get back on topic.

I agree, I was just answering one of 7by7's quesions.

I have nothing further to say in this thread, it has just proved everything that I already feared and I hope it serves as a warning to others what is really going on.

"If you tolerate this, then your children will be next".

[samran]

There is no link and I think it's best to get back on topic.

I agree, I was just answering one of 7by7's quesions.

I have nothing further to say in this thread, it has just proved everything that I already feared and I hope it serves as a warning to others what is really going on.

"If you tolerate this, then your children will be next".

From the crazy Islamists to quoting the manic street preachers!

Not sure if you meant the irony...

[MrJohnson]

There is no link and I think it's best to get back on topic.

I agree, I was just answering one of 7by7's quesions.

I have nothing further to say in this thread, it has just proved everything that I already feared and I hope it serves as a warning to others what is really going on.

"If you tolerate this, then your children will be next".

From the crazy Islamists to quoting the manic street preachers!

Not sure if you meant the irony...

It's too early in the morning for this kind of irony.

[Scott]

The next time there is a baiting, inflammatory, off-topic exchange, posters will be suspended.

This is not a private platform for a few posters. It is a public discussion. There is a PM function if you want to communicate with other members. Rules still apply.

[Thorgal]

Referring to the Quran is pure anti-Muslim propaganda.

If it's in the book in black and white, how on earth is referring to it, propaganda? Shocking PC, in denial, liberal thinking!

You can reach several comprehensions/levels in Islam as Atheist with your person and your character.

Come back if you reach my level to be accepted, introduced and integrated in the Ibadi scholar of Islam.

And by the way, I'm Atheist.

Slavery is far under this level.

No you are not...

You are anti-christian first and foremost.

,,,and an Islam apologist because it's the mortal enemy of christianity.

Simple as that...don't delude yourself.

True atheists should hate Islam with even more vengeance than christianity.

.

That's pure intellectual cannibalism...

[7by7]

(lengthy quote from 7by7 deleted for clarity)

Again, not 3 sources out of all of the sources you provided, don't try to twist it, 3 sources out of the 3 sources I checked are not the moderate Muslims that you would have us all believe that the vast majority of Muslims are. This has just totally proven my point about what is happening in the UK when 3 supposedly decent Muslim leaders are all nefarious characters who I don't want to have a political or religious influence over their followers the UK. Britain clearly has a jihad problem with 3 out of 3 Muslim leaders featured in a video to promote true Islam are all radical Muslims. And I don't think you just have to be a suicide bomber or fight in the IS to be a radical Muslim, I mean fighting to ensure that Islamic laws and ways are imposed and forced in the UK which is what building a mega-mosque in London and pushing for Halal restaurants is doing, just watch that Luton video again for a glimpse of how these leaders want the UK to be.

So yes, you are right, a few radical Muslims in the UK are speaking out to the IS but at the same time you showed that the same people also have links to terrorism and that is exactly why people are "Islamophobic" because all of them are not peace loving moderate Muslims, they are exactly the sort of people that non-Muslim British people should be afraid of as they try to take over and change the UK. So thanks for supporting what I already knew and have been talking about this whole thread.

Three people you checked; three out of many. Three who may be radical Muslims, but whose links to terrorism is tenuous at best.

I have also linked to and quoted, among others, from the Muslim Council Of Britain; why no dirt on them? Have you not checked, or, more likely, is it that you found no dirt?

But you have missed the whole point; and dug yourself into a deep hole while doing so.

The point is that Muslims from the whole spectrum have condemned ISIS as un Islamic.

That's Muslims from moderates to radicals, from liberal to ultra conservative.

Whatever their politics they have all condemned ISIS as un Islamic.

The majority of Muslims, whatever their politics, do not support ISIS.

Which is what I have been saying from the start.

I have no problem with Kosher. I have no problem with Halal. If Muslims or Jews want to open a Kosher or Halal restaurant up then that's great but what I am against is them forcing British restaurants that are already open to be 100% Halal only and stop serving non-Halal food. That is not right and that is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

What are you on about? What British restaurants have been forced to be 100% Halal?

Some, KFC, Subway and Nando's for example, have chosen to open Halal only branches in areas where there is a demand for such; but the decision to do so is a commercial one; demand led. No one is forcing them to do so; despite what the right wing press want you to believe.

Which restaurant chains have gone halal – and why?

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)

[7by7]

There is no link (to Halal) and I think it's best to get back on topic.

I agree, I was just answering one of 7by7's quesions.......

A question prompted by your bringing Halal up in the first place!

But enough of that, this and the latter part of my post above is all I have to say on the subject of Halal.