Newborn Children-----immigrant Status?

[TRIPxCORE]

If I live in America with my Thai citizen/wife and we have a child, does the child automatically get to be a Thai citizen as well as US citizen?

[Guest timbee]

that depends on where the child is born ... ?

[lopburi3]

I believe you will have to file paperwork with the Royal Thai Embassy. They should have information on website.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I believe you will have to file paperwork with the Royal Thai Embassy. They should have information on website.

You need to register the childs birth with the Embassy or your nearest Consulate with a civil registrar. Once that is done, you or the child, based on present Thai law, can apply for a Thai passport. It is well covered on the LA Thai Consulate website

[ucomservices]

Hi!

First of all let me wish u for your new born. Well, the way i see it is like this :-

I am 37 yrs old Indian national and been married to a Thai lady for the past 11 yrs and staying in India. She still mantains her thai nationality and we have two boys aged 10 and 5 years. The elder one was born in Thailand and the yougner one was born in India. The elder retiains his thai nationality and the younger one was having Indian nationality at the time of his birth, but after a visit to the Thai Embassy in New Delhi, India I managed to get a Thai Passport for the younger one also. We have since ten surrendered his Indian passport to the authorities here and he maintains his thai nationality.

I have sen that the staf working in any Thai Embassy in the world are more close to then country people and they will also go all out to do things for them.

In your case, I think that if your wife still maintains Thai nationality and has an upto date ID-Card and a copy of your marriage paper and a copy of your house register in Thailand then approach the Thai Embassy in your Area with all these papers and they should not refuse to give Thai nationality to your new-born child. They might also make a Thai passport for the child and then you might have to approach the Ministry of External Affaiars in your country to get a Visa stamped in your's child's passport. (Well, this was how it went for me.)

I, think things will turn out fine for you.

[narit]

As a kid of foriegn father, your kid is entitled to duo-citizenship until he reach 18 or 20 years old if I am not wrong. That's when he needs to choose whether to keep US citizenship or Thai citizenship. The consulate in LA should be able to explain this to you.

A kid of foriegn mother and Thai father, is allowed under Thai law to hold duo nationalities for the rest of his life. He doesn't have to choose.

You can say it's not fair for your kid to choose while other kids don't have to. But that's the law on the book.

[samran]

As a kid of foriegn father, your kid is entitled to duo-citizenship until he reach 18 or 20 years old if I am not wrong. That's when he needs to choose whether to keep US citizenship or Thai citizenship. The consulate in LA should be able to explain this to you.

A kid of foriegn mother and Thai father, is allowed under Thai law to hold duo nationalities for the rest of his life. He doesn't have to choose.

In my experience, not true.

I am way over 18 and have applied have applied for/renewed my Thai passport in Canberra 3 times without problem since my 18th birthday. My Dad is Australian and my mother is Thai and I have maintained 2 nationalities all my life.

[bapak]

What samran says is correct.....

Cheers, Bapak

[narit]

Well, pratically you're probably right. It's 21 years old not 18. But it's on the book look at Section 14 of Nationality Act BE 2508. Legally a Thai citizen of foriegn father must select one nationality at the age of 21. But I guess no one really cares much.

In one case, my Euroasian friend with a English father said he had to choose one otherwise he had a problem with the Land Dept and can't own the land in Thailand. This guys lives in Thailand. And I had to drop his UK citizenship.

Not fair at all. Nothing wrong with duo-citizenship.

[samran]

narit, could you forward me that link to section 14...very interesting.

As far as I was aware, there was a revision to the act in 2525...but I may be wrong. Additionally, wouldn't the constitution prevent discrimination on that basis? Just wondering.

[h5kaf]

[As a kid of foriegn father, your kid is entitled to duo-citizenship until he reach 18 or 20 years old if I am not wrong. That's when he needs to choose whether to keep US citizenship or Thai citizenship. The consulate in LA should be able to explain this to you.

A kid of foriegn mother and Thai father, is allowed under Thai law to hold duo nationalities for the rest of his life. He doesn't have to choose.

In my experience, not true.

I am way over 18 and have applied have applied for/renewed my Thai passport in Canberra 3 times without problem since my 18th birthday. My Dad is Australian and my mother is Thai and I have maintained 2 nationalities all my life.]

I don't understand this. My newborn daughter was born here in Thailand (my wife is Thai). She has a Thai birth certificate and is registered in our Tabien Bann. She has been allocated a Thai ID number. She is clearly a Thai citizen and entitled to a Thai passport. She has also been registered at the British Embassy and I have her UK birth certificate, the original of which is held in the UK central registry - for ever. All she ever needs to do to get a UK passport is produce this certificate and fill in the form. The question of giving up a nationality does not arise. There is no question on the form asking about this so why should it come up? The Australian example above seems to me to ring true.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

[As a kid of foriegn father, your kid is entitled to duo-citizenship until he reach 18 or 20 years old if I am not wrong. That's when he needs to choose whether to keep US citizenship or Thai citizenship. The consulate in LA should be able to explain this to you.

A kid of foriegn mother and Thai father, is allowed under Thai law to hold duo nationalities for the rest of his life. He doesn't have to choose.

In my experience, not true.

I am way over 18 and have applied have applied for/renewed my Thai passport in Canberra 3 times without problem since my 18th birthday. My Dad is Australian and my mother is Thai and I have maintained 2 nationalities all my life.]

I don't understand this. My newborn daughter was born here in Thailand (my wife is Thai). She has a Thai birth certificate and is registered in our Tabien Bann. She has been allocated a Thai ID number. She is clearly a Thai citizen and entitled to a Thai passport. She has also been registered at the British Embassy and I have her UK birth certificate, the original of which is held in the UK central registry - for ever. All she ever needs to do to get a UK passport is produce this certificate and fill in the form. The question of giving up a nationality does not arise. There is no question on the form asking about this so why should it come up? The Australian example above seems to me to ring true.

Not ALL countries permit duality of citizenship. For instance, Malaysia will not accept it. I don't have a list, but don't believe that there is a blanket approval out there for each and every country.

[Maverick]

Is there anyone who really knows the definitive answer to this question of dual nationality. Lots of conflicting advice around. I took this extract from the web -

'THAILAND - DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions:

Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals'.

I know a number of people with two passports one of which is thai (including the post to this forum) but it would seem that technically it's not allowed other than in extreme circumstances but it's ignored. Might there be a problem when going abroad and the entry stamps not reconciling causing an investigation?

[Maverick]

Extract from e-thailand.com -

'The Thai government has become much more relaxed about dual citizenship these days. If you were born here, then being issued with a Thai passport will be easy. A form of renunciation of your other nationality will be available from the Embassy and you can submit that with your application for Thai citizenship - but in reality, you can keep your other nationality. Then you must only play by the rules; if you have a Thai passport here, then you are 100% subject to Thai law and will not be able to use your other nationality to escape from any problems you may encounter. But there is far less prejudice here against Eurasians than there used to be in, say, the 70s and you will be admired by Thais for taking Thai nationality - it will show a kind of commitment'.

[samran]

Is there anyone who really knows the definitive answer to this question of dual nationality. Lots of conflicting advice around.

There are actually lots of Thai laws which contract each other. Dual citizenship is just one of them, and even though it is on the books that saying either it is illegal/must be chosen at age 18 or 21, it isn't enforced due to superior laws and later ammendments over riding them.

Apart from my lack of problems of applying for and using my Thai and Aussie passports, I have personally asked both the Consul General in Melbourne and the Thai embassy here in Canberra, and both said there is no problem with having dual nationality and no restriction on age.

The law they refer me to is the ammendment to the nationality act in 2535 (not the 2525 which I said before) which in effect allowed Thai women to keep Thai citizenship when they married a foreigner. As a result of this and the constitution not allowing discrimination between Thai citizens, it has generally been accepted that dual citizenship is now possible for all Thais.

There are still people (never embassy officials though) who think the opposite, cause, as I said, there is still laws on the books saying it is illegal. But this is a common problem with Thai laws, that we shouldn't get to fussed about. I don't think there is a "definative" law so to speak that allows dual nationality per se, so in this case we should just use the accepted practices of embassies and immigration as a guide.

[Maverick]

Thanks Samran - there had to be a typical 'thai' explanation to this.

[somtaamgaiyang]

Dear All,

As far as I know, the Brits allow dual nationality so no problem to hold Thai and UK passports. However, my wife is of the opinion that my son will be eligible for national service in Thailand (which I would love for him to avoid) and that this would not be the case if he had born in UK and not Thailand. Is this true?

Does anyone have an answer for this one???

Cheers,

SGY

[samran]

my wife is of the opinion that my son will be eligible for national service in Thailand (which I would love for him to avoid) and that this would not be the case if he had born in UK and not Thailand. Is this true?

Yes he will, no matter where he is born. All Thai male citizens are eligable to to military service up to the age of 45. It is in the constitution.

At age 17 he will get a draft letter in the mail, wherever he is registered in Thailand.

There are a number of things you can do. If he is living in Thailand, during high school he can do 3 years of cadets, which exempts him from military service. Lots of kids do this, and it is a bit of fun and gets them away from class one Friday per month.

He can do the equivalent military service if he lives overseas....at least thats what the rules say. But it is upto the Thai military if that service is deemed to be at the same level as Thai military service.

He can defer it, while he is studying at university, but then has to go into the lottery the year after he graduates.

If he gets to the drafting day, try to find out how many people will be drafted in that district for that year, sit at the back of the room until the requisite number of people have pulled the wrong coloured ball out of the hat, and then "attend" the draft day by strolling up to the recruitment officer. He will be exempted from military service as the quota for that district has been filled.

Otherwise, if he is a university graduate, and gets to drafting day, he can volunteer for the military. University graduates only have to serve out 6 months, while non university graduates he will have to do the full 2 years. Note, that if he doesn't volunteer, and is a university graduate, then he will be forced to serve the full 2 years if drafted.

Finally, he can live overseas until he is 30. There are clauses that say basically that if you can't make it to the draft lottery selection day for whatever reason, and that no one else can attend for you, and you can prove it, then that is it is acceptable not to turn up to the draft. Living overseas is an acceptable reason. Upon turning 30, he still has to turn up to the next lottery draft lottery day he is in Thailand (usually in April), but he will be immediately transfered into the non-active Army reserves (all Thai adulty males are technically in this) and will not have to see any duty.

The Thai consulate website in Los Angeles has a complete rundown of the rules...in Thai. Your wife should be able to translate this for you. But what I have just said is basically what is in the rules.

[lukamar]

As a bit of a footnote to this thread. I have a friend who was born in Lao, moved to Thailand at a very young age about 2years and immigrated to Canada in the early 70's. He holda a Lao passport, a Thai passport and a Canadian passport. So I think anything is possible given the right circumstances. Might not be 100% legal, but it is possible.

[somtaamgaiyang]

Dear Samran,

Many thanks for the advice. Hopefully by the time he gets around to having to do national service it will be a thing of the past.

best wishes,

Sgy