Murders on Koh Tao: UK, Myanmar 'can observe'

[stephen terry]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

How do you come to that conclusion? TIT, I very much doubt the lawyer has any right to have more DNA tests run.

You are kidding right? You don't think the defense team is allowed to put on a defense or question evidence?

They without a doubt can submit their own test results to counter prosecution claims just as they can submit evidence to show confession were got illegally. Neither of which I believe will happen as I am fairly certain they will please guilty and show as much remorse as possible to escape the death penalty and have a chance to be able to see freedom again.

Well, there certainly won't be a trial by jury as Thailand has no such procedure, it is all up to the judge...and we know judges can easily be manipulated, whether politically or with bribes.

Actually it will be judges and you are way off base if you believe there is a likely hood of a conviction in a case like this unless guilt is clear .... but what is likely is they are just going to be deciding a sentence since it is almost certain these two will plead guilty.

It would be in their best interests if they do plead guilty to have the sentence reduced to about 40 years in jail, instead of a death sentence that will be later rescinded to life imprisonment - when the judge (judges) find that the DNA evidence proves guilt. That's the actuality, because it has been ordained to happen.

Even if by some chance that the UK and lawyers get their act together and come up with a different DNA comparison, it would not be regarded as evidence by the court. Why? Because the RTP would not budge from their stated position.

I hope I can eat my words, and that would restore my faith in humanity.

[kkup]

If they are found guilty unfairly the least that should be is to boycott Koh Tao and stop feeding the pockets of the mafia families.

[kriswillems]

This is good news. Now British observers can examine first hand the DNA evidence and the circumstances surrounding the confessions. Can't wait to hear their report.

There need to be only 1 thing be checked : the DNA.

Taking samples of the suspects wouldn't longer than 1 minute.

comparing it with samples found on the body by Thai police and samples found on the body by British police should take a few days.

This test could potentially reveal total corruption of the Thai police and several higher level leaders.

I wonder if they are willing to allow such a test.....I doubt it.

[Alwyn]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

Have the confessions been formally withdrawn?

No.

The entire recant story came from a translation by Coconuts from a Myranmar newspaper where a lawyer, who visited the two said they recanted but the funny thing is he and the embassy staff who were all that meeting said they confessed at their meeting.

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

"The police have stated publicly they have not recanted" It must be true then if the police say so.

[JohnThailandJohn]

If you just don't trust police and the courts then I am sure the Train rapist and murderer just sentenced to death would love to see some of your advocacy sent his way. He too admitted his guilt and had DNA tests match and police too bungled that case initially and conflicting reports were also put out in the press and numerous unanswered questions there too.

[Alwyn]

what a load of cobblers. Allow an independent testing of the DNA and put the questions to rest. Simple. The fact that they don't seem to be encouraging it is not helping their case really, is it?

[MJP]

If you just don't trust police and the courts then I am sure the Train rapist and murderer just sentenced to death would love to see some of your advocacy sent his way. He too admitted his guilt and had DNA tests match and police too bungled that case initially and conflicting reports were also put out in the press and numerous unanswered questions there too.

Was he wealthy?

To clear all this doubt up just let the UK independently confirm the DNA evidence.

What's the problem? Solved in a few days.

[BMJ]

Man, it must really,really suck to be a Burmese living in Thailand!

Anything happens and you'd be the prime suspect. These two

didn't have any scratches or bruises like they had been in a

fight? If they did it there must have been more then just them!

My 2 cents.

[jaywalker]

It's BS.

Unless the UK is allowed to take its own DNA swabs from the suspects and compare them to what they have from Hannah, it's all a farce.

"Observe?"

It's time for the UK to get tough. I won't say how on this forum, but the UK wields a lot of clout.

Send in the Ghurkas, or a MacArthur, or an Eisenhower.

Where's the Iron Lady when you need her? A Rommel would even do. Monty....Patton.

Yamamoto...

Place is a basket case.... Then again that's the way politics go....Look at Obama.....Crimony....

[kriswillems]

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

If I would told by the police they were afraid I was about to kill myself I would also not talk about recanting in presence of the police.

Personally I am also not really charmed by hot water treatments and sadistic Roti sellers.

In the end nobody says these Burmese are innocent. We just want an independent check because the Thai police has a history of corruption, crimes, extortion, drug deals, using scapegoats... you call it ... they have all done it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by kriswillems

[utalkin2me]

Can you imagine if some actual investigator got permission to look at all the evidence in a case like this? If I was running Thailand I would not make it public either, it could literally destroy the country. The thing that really scares me is how truly incapable Thailand is, and that of course this must be hidden from the world. They know this, and they will continue to run things in this fashion until an international organization has the authority to force them to stop.

[Robby nz]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

..........................................................................................................................................

How do you come to that conclusion? TIT, I very much doubt the lawyer has any right to have more DNA tests run.

You are kidding right? You don't think the defense team is allowed to put on a defense or question evidence?

They without a doubt can submit their own test results to counter prosecution claims just as they can submit evidence to show confession were got illegally. Neither of which I believe will happen as I am fairly certain they will please guilty and show as much remorse as possible to escape the death penalty and have a chance to be able to see freedom again.

You may not have noticed :

Before the session began, Hall asked that the testimony be postponed for another month, as two lawyers had been newly assigned by the Lawyers Council of Thailand to represent the defendants after their lawyer, Phailbook Nunraksa, withdrew his services.

The defense team has only just been assigned and has therefore had no chance to do anything.

You appear to know a lot about what the defense team can and can not do so can you tell us please :

Do you know if these lawyers were even present at the advance hearing ?

Do you know if they were there, were they given a chance to cross examine the 3 witnesses ?

Tell us how you know the lawyers will be allowed to take DNA from the accused and have access to the DNA retrieved from the victim ?

If they were to plead guilty it will be because they have been told repeatedly by their captors that it is the only way they can avoid a death sentence, as evidence of such threats and intimidation I give you a statement from the police chief :

A panel of prosecutors had merely asked the police investigators to review the case and to maximise the punishment in light of evidence the suspects had tried to cover up their crime, he said.

The suspects were informed of the revised penalty recommendation, but police have not said how many years in prison they may face, he said.

So there you have it the police will recommend a harsher sentence if they plead not guilty and they have told the accused so.

These 2 men have been in the tender care of the police without representation for a long time now and no doubt subjected to mental if not physical harassment for most of that time.

I suggest to you that by the time this gets to trial they will be in no mental condition to even know what happened on that night.

Their only hope is that someone will produce real evidence of what went on in the early morning on that beach one month ago.

There are so many basic questions that have not even been addressed, such as :

Where is the CCTV footage of them leaving the beach, going to the bar where they worked to drop off the guitar then going home ? There must be something on some of the cameras somewhere.

Was there any blood on the clothes they wore that night ? The witness said everything was normal in their room when he went back.

Were any of their clothes wet with salt water ? David was said to have been dragged into the sea whoever did that must have got wet.

There are a long list of other questions including about the condom which the police chief said at the start only had Hannah's DNA on the outside, now we are told it also had sperm from the accused.

You are convinced of their guilt others are not so sure.

[hobz]

Aside from all of the other glaring inconsistencies that make me doubt that these Burmese guys are the actual murderers, there is one other thing that particularly baffles me about this case: If they really had committed the murders, would these guys have just hung around on the island, waiting to be caught? They had WEEKS before they became suspects in which to flee. They could have EASILY disappeared into some remote village in Burma, never to be heard from again. Yet they didn't. Now contrast THEIR behavior with that of the person who actually DID flee . . .

There's pictures of one of the scapegoats standing in line for the initial mass dna testing that was done early in the investigation when they tested migrant workers in general. So yeah, not only did they stay on the island but they got dna tested twice. First time didnt match. Second time it did match. Maybe the first DNA sample was "accidentally" replaced with the samples collected from the victims body. After all accidents happpens so easy. Specially when there is no real forensics specialist involved in the investigation..... also nom sods alibi got broken recently. The relative he claimed to be with at the night of the murders was in pattaya with her boyfriend that night.not in bangkok as nom sod claims.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Can you imagine if some actual investigator got permission to look at all the evidence in a case like this? If I was running Thailand I would not make it public either, it could literally destroy the country. The thing that really scares me is how truly incapable Thailand is, and that of course this must be hidden from the world. They know this, and they will continue to run things in this fashion until an international organization has the authority to force them to stop.

Yes, of course all the court records will be destroyed and shredded since almost everything in a Thai court is done through paper filings by the prosecution and defense.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

If I would told by the police they were afraid I was about to kill myself I would also not talk about recanting in presence of the police.

Personally I am also not really charmed by hot water treatments and sadistic Roti sellers.

In the end nobody says these Burmese are innocent. We just want an independent check because the Thai police has a history of corruption, crimes, extortion, drug deals, using scapegoats... you call it ... they have all done it.

They have attorneys. Guilt or innocence is decided in a court, not by the the public or internet posters. They will be able to have a defense and present their innocence if they decide to recant their confessions and challenge the DNA. The process and procedures may be different her than your home but I believe the basic concept of guilt or innocence being decided in court is the same. Both sides will have their chance in court in the unlikely event these two do not plead guilty.

No idea if police abused them but can tell you the looked fine doing the reenactment a day or two after their confessions and would guess if they had boiling water poured on them then we need to add the doctor(s) who examined them before and after questioning to those involved in the conspiracy. While I am certainly against the abuse of prisoners or suspects, regardless of how awful their crime, never heard of hot water treatments changing somebody's DNA.

[hobz]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

Anyone that has spent enough time in Thailand knows exactly what is probably going down here. There are no conspiracy theories, just standard operating practice when involving the local constabulary and well connected persons. Scapegoats are found, preferably Burmese, convicted and then disappear, justice is done. Not that Thailand is the only country that has different laws for the rich, look at all the Banksters walking around free.

Agree 100% that the rich often get a different from of justice but in this case there is just overwhelming evidence against this guy and no reasonable reason to believe somebody else committed the crime especially the kid who was in Bangkok at the time of the murders.

Just because police don't share all the details doesn't mean what you don't know should be used to form a conspiracy. While you have people here who have wanted get people to send money to these suspects, you have another thread running now about the Train Killer talking about how they want to see blood... another case where DNA and confession and were conflicting reports were in the press and police made mistakes and a friend turned on the guilty party.

The difference here is a couple things ... police initially made a stupid comment about it being a foreigner and even worse saying something along the lines a Thai couldn't do this. My guess is the cop who said this had some info about the whole blonde hair thing at the scene and decided to use that info to not only form a conclusion but then to add the whole idiotic it couldn't be a Thai comment. Not only did this outrage foreigners but also smelled of a cover-up to pin this on a foreigner. Then they rightly interrogated the UK friend and saw him initially as a suspect ... further upsetting people.

Then of course it did turn out to be foreigners which seemed to confirm in some people's mind it was a cover up but what REALLY got the whole conspiracy thing going to the point of people not letting it go was the whole phone thing that all turned out to be BS. Then the conspiracy theories just got stupider because people couldn't get off that bandwagon as their mind was already set.

Of course the police have to take blame because there is a reason so many are angry and distrustful towards them. But where I can forgive them is that this is not a first world nation of well paid and organized officers who are experienced in keeping their mouth shut when it comes to releasing info. Any tidbits they released combined with translation and reporting issues just became fodder for conspiracy folks.

At some point though people have to realize, it looks like it did turn out to be foreigners in this case and they they likely are going to be pleading guilty just like the train killer.

You forgot to mention that the cops planted bloody shorts in the bag of the foreigner friend. Telling us that they are willing to plant evidence to get someone, anyone.

[Local Drunk]

If you just don't trust police and the courts then I am sure the Train rapist and murderer just sentenced to death would love to see some of your advocacy sent his way. He too admitted his guilt and had DNA tests match and police too bungled that case initially and conflicting reports were also put out in the press and numerous unanswered questions there too.

Was he wealthy?

To clear all this doubt up just let the UK independently confirm the DNA evidence.

What's the problem? Solved in a few days.

Was he wealthy? Ah...

“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

[Aceicol]

No cover up - just you wanting to believe their was one. He was took a test at the university. I never heard anything about a girlfriend and if what you say is true am sure it is just more nonesense like the phone theory and talking of one girl and a picture of another. There were students at the university including whoever provided the rest and time stamped video of him at his apartment and probably other cooperating facts and witnesses that police didn't release all the details about and they shouldn't because he is not a suspect. The suspects whose DNA matches and who admitted to the crime are now in jail.

John, you need to get out and read more books. History is littered with people confessing to crimes they didn't commit under duress. Very often in cases where there is massive pressure in the Police. This isn't limited to Thailand but has happened the world over.

The reason people don't trust the RTP are vast and varied, unlike your total trust in the whole process.

You appear to make excuses for every failing that may have come from the Police investigation, yet won't accept any possible blame or fault in any of them.

Take the following line for example

I never heard anything about a girlfriend and if what you say is true am sure it is just more nonesense

So because you've never heard of it, and even if it is true, it must be nonesense [sic]. Just to clarify, does that mean even if it's true, it's nonsense? Surely if it's true it;s hardly nonsense?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Aceicol

[hobz]

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

If I would told by the police they were afraid I was about to kill myself I would also not talk about recanting in presence of the police.

Personally I am also not really charmed by hot water treatments and sadistic Roti sellers.

In the end nobody says these Burmese are innocent. We just want an independent check because the Thai police has a history of corruption, crimes, extortion, drug deals, using scapegoats... you call it ... they have all done it.

They have attorneys. Guilt or innocence is decided in a court, not by the the public or internet posters. They will be able to have a defense and present their innocence if they decide to recant their confessions and challenge the DNA. The process and procedures may be different her than your home but I believe the basic concept of guilt or innocence being decided in court is the same. Both sides will have their chance in court in the unlikely event these two do not plead guilty.

No idea if police abused them but can tell you the looked fine doing the reenactment a day or two after their confessions and would guess if they had boiling water poured on them then we need to add the doctor(s) who examined them before and after questioning to those involved in the conspiracy. While I am certainly against the abuse of prisoners or suspects, regardless of how awful their crime, never heard of hot water treatments changing somebody's DNA.

I think you have way too much trust in the courts and the system in general. That being said, I hope you are right and that the DNA samples from the victims have not been replaced by the mafia police.

[utalkin2me]

Everybody can talk all they want, but this all comes down to the fact that there is no accountability here for anyone. The Thais do exactly as they please with 0 recourse.

[hellyes2oo2]

jtj spouting his usual cr*p. but ask him any awkward questions about the case and see how quickly he disappears. so come on jtj answer all the questions that you have been asked on several threads. or are you to busy brown nosing again. just let me know if you want a reminder of those questions. if i come back in an hour i bet you won't reply.

[hellyes2oo2]

jtj said on another thread this morning that the police had no need to beat these guys, just tell that the dna matched or WOULD MATCH. how would the police know in advance that the dna was going to match err...........set up.

[gemini81]

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

If I would told by the police they were afraid I was about to kill myself I would also not talk about recanting in presence of the police.

Personally I am also not really charmed by hot water treatments and sadistic Roti sellers.

In the end nobody says these Burmese are innocent. We just want an independent check because the Thai police has a history of corruption, crimes, extortion, drug deals, using scapegoats... you call it ... they have all done it.

They have attorneys. Guilt or innocence is decided in a court, not by the the public or internet posters. They will be able to have a defense and present their innocence if they decide to recant their confessions and challenge the DNA. The process and procedures may be different her than your home but I believe the basic concept of guilt or innocence being decided in court is the same. Both sides will have their chance in court in the unlikely event these two do not plead guilty.

No idea if police abused them but can tell you the looked fine doing the reenactment a day or two after their confessions and would guess if they had boiling water poured on them then we need to add the doctor(s) who examined them before and after questioning to those involved in the conspiracy. While I am certainly against the abuse of prisoners or suspects, regardless of how awful their crime, never heard of hot water treatments changing somebody's DNA.

Never have I seen such a gullible poster; who would ever believe the thai police? Let alone the fact that dna results are only a claim- they'd have to go before the public and prove it...the reputation of these boys precedes them by continents...

Edited October 15, 2014 by gemini81

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thanks guys, been another enjoyable time killing some time here but need to run and still need to get back over to the Elvis is Still Alive page and make and thank them too.

[BigFun]

Smoke them out...sanctions...kind of...make KT a no go "warning" area on the FCO web site, insurance wise a red flag and see how they will like that when they lose a whole nations income..

[siampolee]

PM says representatives welcome to inspect Koh Tao murder site with local police

BANGKOK: -- The United Kingdom and Myanmar are welcome to "observe" progress on the Koh Tao murders case and can send personnel to visit the site and gather information alongside Thai police, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

So going by the above statement in the quote are we to believe that in fact or to be truthful there is still an ''ongoing investigation in this matter.either to find the truth or to boost the commission rates paid to the police farce force?

[JohnThailandJohn]

jtj said on another thread this morning that the police had no need to beat these guys, just tell that the dna matched or WOULD MATCH. how would the police know in advance that the dna was going to match err...........set up.

PS - It is common practice just as it is to separate the two and tell one the other already confessed. Police lie about many things to get a confession even telling people there are witnesses or other evidence like DNA that matched even though they have no concrete proof yet.

By they way -- it really is getting nutty if based on my thoughts or opinions about the case you believe it is a set-up. None of us know what transpired during the interrogation process. My speculating there would not be a need to beat these two to get a confession is certainly not a reasonable reason to believe I know what transpired ... but is completely inline with conspiracy theory thinking.

Edited October 15, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[AGareth2]

have we heard defintively that this case is going to trial

[BritTim]

Yes, of course all the court records will be destroyed and shredded since almost everything in a Thai court is done through paper filings by the prosecution and defense.

Scarcely necessary, if what most of us suspect is happening is indeed the case. Most evidence that could be used for an investigation meeting international standards has already been destroyed, or at least despoiled.

[BritTim]

have we heard defintively that this case is going to trial

No. Unless the accuseds' 'confessions' are considered safe, the accuseds will probably 'commit suicide'.