Thai markets: My observations

[geronimo]

An observation I’ve made recently,

My wife has started to work as a market trader and when I have time I drive her to the different markets, set up her clothes rails and wait a few hours while she does her business.

Being an active person, I always walk around the entire place to see what’s on offer. This done, I then sit in a corner and observe.

Things I’ve noticed,

There is no animosity at all between vendors of the same product, in fact I witnessed one woman who had a newbie pitch next to her, selling the same product. After a few times of the established one making a sale while the other one didn’t, the old hand proceeded to instruct the newcomer on how to present her wares. Indeed my wife was given valuable information on how to make her way in this field.

I talk to them often and have discovered that most vendors go to between four and seven venues, all stating that to stay in the same place doesn’t give as good revenues as moving around.

They have their own little social circles and later in the evening, 7 – 8pm, they sit in small groups drinking beer and chatting. I realized that this “work” is actually a whole heap of fun for them, from setting up their stall and engaging in humorous banter with their neighbours to aiding each other and hearing all the latest gossip. The selling of goods is also fun. I am very lucky as my wife sells women’s clothing so I am always in the midst of these gorgeous females. (There’s something about the shape of a woman that cannot be defined!!!)

The actual markets appear to the untrained eye as a mass of individual activity, all intertwined to cause absolute chaos! Yet it works so smoothly. Mostly there are no parking regs or spots, you park where you can. The walkways are strewn with electric cables and anyone taller than 170 is constantly stooping, yet all runs so smoothly.

I used to think this occupation was rather drab until I actually got into the middle of it.

So, for any guys who are looking for something worthwhile to do (re: gf or wife) consider market trading. Obviously some thought needs to go into what you sell and where. In three months of assisting my other half, I have never witnessed anything negative or unpleasant.

I guess the point of my post is to highlight how helpful and genuine the people can be with each other, even when a financial loss might be the result.

Also it is refreshing to see that a Thai can just buy something and sell it on the market, without any of the bureaucracy you’d find at home (obtaining licences etc)

I can thoroughly recommend browsing these places and if possible, find a corner and just watch for a while.

One time, I was sat near my wife's pitch, using my mobile. I didn't realise that there was a mat in front of me with my umbrella on it.

A woman with her young kid stopped, looked at me, then the umbrella and stated that I must be upon hard times.

My response was that my brollies were so good, I came with a truck load and this was the last one!

I’d be interested to hear any market stories …….

[BKKdreaming]

Great story and well told

too many questions , but here goes

How much does she have to pay for her selling area ? and is that for 8-10 hours or ???

How large is the area ?

and do the local Police come around asking for handouts ? or anyone else !

is this in a large city ?

How does she deal with the almost daily rainstorms this time of year ?

do sales rise and fall thru the month the farther from paypays ?

are any weekdays better sales than others ?

time of day for best sales ?

it seems that the mark-up is not that high on clothes , does she add 50% to cost or ???

And I guess a big question is does she do this to make money or to have something to do ?

Could someone who did not have a back-up like you make decent money selling the same clothes as their only job ?

I see a lot of the sellers are my local markets in California who you wonder if its worth it to sell 50 cent used kids clothes all day long,

but they are making some money, have the same "family" of sellers around them and seem to enjoy it , when it looks like too much work for me for so little money !

Thanks for the info.....

Edited October 16, 2014 by BKKdreaming

[Morakot]

Nice to read your observations.

Thanks for elegantly telling your story here!

[geronimo]

Great story and well told

too many questions , but here goes

How much does she have to pay for her selling area ? and is that for 8-10 hours or ???

How large is the area ?

and do the local Police come around asking for handouts ? or anyone else !

is this in a large city ?

How does she deal with the almost daily rainstorms this time of year ?

do sales rise and fall thru the month the farther from paypays ?

are any weekdays better sales than others ?

time of day for best sales ?

it seems that the mark-up is not that high on clothes , does she add 50% to cost or ???

And I guess a big question is does she do this to make money or to have something to do ?

Could someone who did not have a back-up like you make decent money selling the same clothes as their only job ?

I see a lot of the sellers are my local markets in California who you wonder if its worth it to sell 50 cent used kids clothes all day long,

but they are making some money, have the same "family" of sellers around them and seem to enjoy it , when it looks like too much work for me for so little money !

Thanks for the info.....

It is in bkk.

The rain can be a problem although she has a permanent tent at one market.

Paydays and the first few days of the month are better.

The hours on weekdays are usually 4:30 - 8pm and weekends earlier start.

I see many women who turn up with a big bag (public transport) but most who are old hands will have a lock up facility.

[Beetlejuice]

There maybe animosity towards the OP`s wife later on if they think a farang is in anyway involved with a market stall at the local markets.

Most of these market traders are people of little wealth trying to scratch a living and if they see what most Thais believe is a rich farang`s wife muscling in on their turf, there could be bad feeling and hostility displayed towards his wife who the market traders will believe does not need the money and is in competition with them, even if no one else is selling clothes at those markets.

Best that the OP keeps a low profile and stays out of the way behind the scenes. The more discrete, the better and I am speaking from experience.

[thailiketoo]

[geronimo]

Great vid!

[ThaiSmarterThanYou]

It is a low so job for uneducated people just like anywhere in the world but it can make money, yes.

Just ask to educated / rich Thai what they think about market sellers and what is their background usually...

[yardrunner]

My wife sells vegetables in a market and had a market stall when I met her, I go down in the evening and help her clean up and pack away and the other stall holders are friendly to me and my wife. perhaps it helps that I am willing to help the other stallholders if they need a lift with anything

[Will2011]

It is a low so job for uneducated people just like anywhere in the world but it can make money, yes.

Just ask to educated / rich Thai what they think about market sellers and what is their background usually...

So, basically you are saying that OP's wife is an uneducated individual. Well, to say the least, your comment is not very polite and shows a low education.

The topic refers to market trading as an investment and has nothing to do with education. That's quite a pathetic comment.

Anyway, as an educated person, if I see there is a good ROI, I'd definitely invest. It is good to hearing from some real thai market trading experiences to gauge the sector. I'd tend to think most merchants just survive with the money they make though.

[bazza40]

My experience is with Chiang Mai markets. I usually buy vegetables and fruit there, plus protein ( fish, sausages etc. ) from a couple of vendors I can trust to cook the food properly. To be on the safe side, protein gets zapped in a microwave as well.

Some of the markets are established ( e.g. Wararot, San Pakot, Nong Hoi ) and are mostly more expensive than what I call the periodic markets. There's a Tuesday and Thursday afternoon market across the bridge from the Holiday Inn in Nong Hoi, and what I call the Burmese market every Friday off ChangKhlan Road next to the Muslim mosque.i

The markets seem to vary in the food on offer. The Tuesday/Thursday market has a Sai Ua ( northern Thai sausage ) to die for. The Thai guy who sells it looks very fat and happy. The Burmese market has good honey, and plenty of avocados which don't seem to appear in other markets. There are a couple of stalls with fish stews that can make your eyes water as you walk past.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I've had 2 gfs work market stalls,

One with a degree in marketing, one with only high school diploma.

In CM stalls are usually 30-50bht a night.

One girl sold womens denim shorts, purchased in the big Cambodian border market at 20bht each, sold in CM Sunday market for 50bht each.

The other sells somtan, 50bht a time, with a queue as long as she is open.

One other lady (aunt of my gf) used to sell curry and rice from a very small village market near San Patong, usually made 500bht/night profit, total income 15,000-20,000 a month. No education but a higher income than a Thai school teacher.

Decent money to be made.

@Beetlejuice

From my observations the traders don't care who she sleeps with.

Edited October 16, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Beetlejuice]

It is a low so job for uneducated people just like anywhere in the world but it can make money, yes.

Just ask to educated / rich Thai what they think about market sellers and what is their background usually...

So, basically you are saying that OP's wife is an uneducated individual. Well, to say the least, your comment is not very polite and shows a low education.

The topic refers to market trading as an investment and has nothing to do with education. That's quite a pathetic comment.

Anyway, as an educated person, if I see there is a good ROI, I'd definitely invest. It is good to hearing from some real thai market trading experiences to gauge the sector. I'd tend to think most merchants just survive with the money they make though.

I don`t think our ThaiSmarterThanYou means that at all.

He means that market trading work is usually a way to make a living for those of the poorer within the communities and lower educated from under privileged backgrounds who were not able to afford University educations and gain degrees and to add, a means how the poor can become self employed, help themselves and make a living. This normally pertains to the majority of local market traders and those who assume this is the case will more likely be correct.

Perhaps the OP`s wife does fall into that category, there is no shame in that if she does.

[KIWIBATCH]

Great video...excellent OP post

[orpheus454]

I guess the point of my post is to highlight how helpful and genuine the people can be with each other, even when a financial loss might be the result.

It's clear that the Thais involved have a clearer appreciation of market dynamics than you do.

Exactly what financial loss are you referring to?

That a particular customer might buy from the neighbouring stall, to their detriment?

Rubbish!

Clusters work!

It is in the interest of retailers for others just like themselves to set up in the immediate vicinity. This increases the size of the pie, and thus each individual slice.

Example: If you live in Bangkok and you want to buy a scanner, or a printer, or a hard drive: where do you go?

Do you think that the retailers in Pantip hate each other because they're direct competitors and a sale to the neighbour is a forgone profit for them?

They don't, because they're smart. They know that a vibrant, efficient market with a whole heap of well presented retailers selling equivalent products attract the punters, to the benefit of all involved, including the customers.

It increases the size of the pie, so that each slice is bigger.

Within Pantip Plaza, it is in each retailer's interest to work with their neighbours to make their area, their floor, their shared products, the most vibrant and most competitive in terms of price and service. This attracts customers, the only factor that is both necessary and sufficient for a successful business.

The people in the market you speak of clearly have the critical thinking processes to work this out.

You and others here clearly don't...

[orpheus454]

There maybe animosity towards the OP`s wife later on if they think a farang is in anyway involved with a market stall at the local markets.

Most of these market traders are people of little wealth trying to scratch a living and if they see what most Thais believe is a rich farang`s wife muscling in on their turf, there could be bad feeling and hostility displayed towards his wife who the market traders will believe does not need the money and is in competition with them, even if no one else is selling clothes at those markets.

Best that the OP keeps a low profile and stays out of the way behind the scenes. The more discrete, the better and I am speaking from experience.

Paranoia.

[orpheus454]

There maybe animosity towards the OP`s wife later on if they think a farang is in anyway involved with a market stall at the local markets.

Most of these market traders are people of little wealth trying to scratch a living and if they see what most Thais believe is a rich farang`s wife muscling in on their turf, there could be bad feeling and hostility displayed towards his wife who the market traders will believe does not need the money and is in competition with them, even if no one else is selling clothes at those markets.

Best that the OP keeps a low profile and stays out of the way behind the scenes. The more discrete, the better and I am speaking from experience.

Sorry, my last post was incomplete.

It should have been:

Ignorant, deluded paranoia...

[geronimo]

I am coming from the social aspect with my comments, how they help each other, even when they sell the same product. One very astute poster pointed out how grouping up increases the slice of the pie for everyone. It is nice for me to see the differring views on Thai markets, I am giving the forum my observations are from a real grassroots level. I live and work with Thais.

[Travel Dude]

I guess the point of my post is to highlight how helpful and genuine the people can be with each other, even when a financial loss might be the result.

It's clear that the Thais involved have a clearer appreciation of market dynamics than you do.

Exactly what financial loss are you referring to?

That a particular customer might buy from the neighbouring stall, to their detriment?

Rubbish!

Clusters work!

Do you think that the retailers in Pantip hate each other because they're direct competitors and a sale to the neighbour is a forgone profit for them?

They don't, because they're smart.

.....

The people in the market you speak of clearly have the critical thinking processes to work this out.

You and others here clearly don't...

WHY are you so Bitchy Orpheus? You really seem to have a problem. You are a nasty piece and no... most of us dont like people like you. Edited October 16, 2014 by Travel Dude

[curtklay]

Ever notice how many merchants selling the same merchandise, set up shop right next to each other? Their thinking is that more vendors attract more customers. In the West, we see competitors as a threat if they are too close.

In my Thai town, there is a very successful pharmacy that had the entire area to themselves. Recently, two other pharmacies set up directly across the street. I said to the Pharmacist, "Looks like you've got some competition; hope that doesn't hurt your business". He said, "No, I think it's good for business".

When we finally got a Global House store in our town, Home Pro opened up a month later just a few blocks away.

In the US, they would be doing everything possible to drive out the competitors. Opposite ways of thinking...hard to say who is correct.

[geronimo]

I guess the point of my post is to highlight how helpful and genuine the people can be with each other, even when a financial loss might be the result.

It's clear that the Thais involved have a clearer appreciation of market dynamics than you do.

Exactly what financial loss are you referring to?

That a particular customer might buy from the neighbouring stall, to their detriment?

Rubbish!

Clusters work!

It is in the interest of retailers for others just like themselves to set up in the immediate vicinity. This increases the size of the pie, and thus each individual slice.

Example: If you live in Bangkok and you want to buy a scanner, or a printer, or a hard drive: where do you go?

Do you think that the retailers in Pantip hate each other because they're direct competitors and a sale to the neighbour is a forgone profit for them?

They don't, because they're smart. They know that a vibrant, efficient market with a whole heap of well presented retailers selling equivalent products attract the punters, to the benefit of all involved, including the customers.

It increases the size of the pie, so that each slice is bigger.

Within Pantip Plaza, it is in each retailer's interest to work with their neighbours to make their area, their floor, their shared products, the most vibrant and most competitive in terms of price and service. This attracts customers, the only factor that is both necessary and sufficient for a successful business.

The people in the market you speak of clearly have the critical thinking processes to work this out.

You and others here clearly don't...

I hadn't looked at it that way, but yes, you do have a valid point Orpheus.

[pizzachang]

My wife also sells clothes in markets. Mostly her experiences have been good but in 5 years there was 1 incident of jealously over "pricing" - Another vendor(female) selling similar items claimed that she had bad sales because my wife's prices were "too low". This vendor complained loudly and long to the venue operators and their solution was to move my wife to another area of the venue. My wife makes and sells clothes using a sewing machine, I bought for her. She does it because she is not lazy and really enjoys the market dynamics. All in all she has had good experiences.

[padeakin]

I guess the point of my post is to highlight how helpful and genuine the people can be with each other, even when a financial loss might be the result.

It's clear that the Thais involved have a clearer appreciation of market dynamics than you do.

Exactly what financial loss are you referring to?

That a particular customer might buy from the neighbouring stall, to their detriment?

Rubbish!

Clusters work!

It is in the interest of retailers for others just like themselves to set up in the immediate vicinity. This increases the size of the pie, and thus each individual slice.

Example: If you live in Bangkok and you want to buy a scanner, or a printer, or a hard drive: where do you go?

Do you think that the retailers in Pantip hate each other because they're direct competitors and a sale to the neighbour is a forgone profit for them?

They don't, because they're smart. They know that a vibrant, efficient market with a whole heap of well presented retailers selling equivalent products attract the punters, to the benefit of all involved, including the customers.

It increases the size of the pie, so that each slice is bigger.

Within Pantip Plaza, it is in each retailer's interest to work with their neighbours to make their area, their floor, their shared products, the most vibrant and most competitive in terms of price and service. This attracts customers, the only factor that is both necessary and sufficient for a successful business.

The people in the market you speak of clearly have the critical thinking processes to work this out.

You and others here clearly don't...

Good point but could have been put more politely, some posters on here are like friends having a discussion, and some are like the guy in the bar that had a few too many and is looking for a fight.

[ldnguy]

Ever notice how many merchants selling the same merchandise, set up shop right next to each other? Their thinking is that more vendors attract more customers. In the West, we see competitors as a threat if they are too close.

In my Thai town, there is a very successful pharmacy that had the entire area to themselves. Recently, two other pharmacies set up directly across the street. I said to the Pharmacist, "Looks like you've got some competition; hope that doesn't hurt your business". He said, "No, I think it's good for business".

When we finally got a Global House store in our town, Home Pro opened up a month later just a few blocks away.

In the US, they would be doing everything possible to drive out the competitors. Opposite ways of thinking...hard to say who is correct.

That's not true at all. In UK towns, banks tend to be clustered together, real estate agents are often all i one street, fruit and veg sellers are all next to each other, bars and pubs are all in one area of town, restaurants are all close to each other. What you say is the complete opposite of reality. In the UK (the West), similar retailers cluster together. If there are 20 bars in one area of town and you open one in the opposite end of town, you'll likely be out of business quickly, because all your potential customers will be hanging around the other 20 bars. I've only been to a few US towns, but I've seen the same there.

[ldnguy]

Great post by the OP. I know quite a few educated people that have stalls on weekends to supplement their income. They aren't uneducated, as one poster claimed. I think quite a few educated people do this, as some stalls can make a decent amount of money. Many educated people also do it full time because it pays more than an office job they could get.

The lack of regulation should be tried in the UK. It's no surprise that unemployment is so high here because many people would do something like this, but the red tape is just too much. The UK and many other Western countries seem to be totally against individuals having small businesses like this. If Thailand imposed UK laws overnight I think unemployment would jump to 20-50% because millions would be banned from doing the work they do.

Edited October 17, 2014 by ldnguy

[fletchsmile]

Nice thread and OP, Geronimo.

Nice video on #6 too.

Thanks to both

Cheers

Fletch

[curtklay]

Ever notice how many merchants selling the same merchandise, set up shop right next to each other? Their thinking is that more vendors attract more customers. In the West, we see competitors as a threat if they are too close.

In my Thai town, there is a very successful pharmacy that had the entire area to themselves. Recently, two other pharmacies set up directly across the street. I said to the Pharmacist, "Looks like you've got some competition; hope that doesn't hurt your business". He said, "No, I think it's good for business".

When we finally got a Global House store in our town, Home Pro opened up a month later just a few blocks away.

In the US, they would be doing everything possible to drive out the competitors. Opposite ways of thinking...hard to say who is correct.

That's not true at all. In UK towns, banks tend to be clustered together, real estate agents are often all i one street, fruit and veg sellers are all next to each other, bars and pubs are all in one area of town, restaurants are all close to each other. What you say is the complete opposite of reality. In the UK (the West), similar retailers cluster together. If there are 20 bars in one area of town and you open one in the opposite end of town, you'll likely be out of business quickly, because all your potential customers will be hanging around the other 20 bars. I've only been to a few US towns, but I've seen the same there.

Well, I have worked in retail management for 50 years all over the US, for many different companies, and I beg to differ.

A competing business moving in nearby was always viewed as declaring war.

I've never been to the UK, but have had discussions with many Europeans about the Thai style of "cluster businesses", and it has always unanimously been agreed as very odd.

Edited October 17, 2014 by curtklay

[BKKdreaming]

I like the idea (and naming it ) cluster businesses ,

If I want to go shopping for sewing machines or big heavy safes I know the area in BKK to go looking for them ,

I would think it would also keep the retail price down and pretty close to your competition prices since the customer can just go next door or across the street.

As a seller I am not sure , if you are the only one selling widgets , whoever finds you and comes to your store is in the market for widgets , if a shop opens across the street that customer has a choice and you will lose business to him ,

Now if the area is established as the "widget market" then everyone wins as customers will come from far away , more customers mean more sales for everyone ,

Are other Asian big cities set up like this or is this a Thai thing ?

[curtklay]

That's a very good point! Clustering is beneficial for the customer; more choices, price comparison, etc. But very risky for the merchant who can't compete on price, quality, or salesmanship. He's better off locating elsewhere and being the exclusive dealer in his area. Unlike what idnguy said, if there is a potential market on the other side of town, you won't soon be out of business, because you will have your own territory without competition. That's how businesses grow.

Bars and restaurants are a different breed. In the US, you may see a McDonalds across the street from a Burger King, but you won't see 2 McDonalds on the same block. Here, many of the "cluster businesses" are selling the same merchandise at the same price. If the market is big enough to support them, that's great. But if "the pie" isn't big enough, there has to be a winner and a loser.

Edited October 17, 2014 by curtklay

[BKKdreaming]

Another question to the sellers......

Does location at the same market matter ?

say there is a 2-3 rows of sellers , buyers come from one parking lot / main street (bus + Taxis) at the start and filter thru all the stalls

, does it help much to be at the start , in the middle or the end ?

Do buyers spend all the money quick , look at the stuff they are interested in and go back and buy or buy stuff as they are leaving so they did not waste the trip ?

When I go to a big swap meet / flea market to buy I normally go to the farthest point and walk back buying stuff along the way ,

then I do not have to carry the stuff as long to get back to the car

As a seller I wonder if being at the front is best to hopefully get the money before its gone

When selling I try and get a space on the end or close to it so I can be found when the buyer wants to come back and buy ,

if you are in the middle you can get lost unless your display is Unique and easy to find ( another topic )

These are all western ideas that I have no idea if they work with Thai buyers !

Edited October 18, 2014 by BKKdreaming