America is stretched to breaking point: watch the markets

[Johpa]

You advocate something comparable to communism where everyone are treated more equally regardless of effort or whether they have earned such treatment. I believe in the free market and supply and demand principles upon which this country was built.

First, advocating for greater equality is not the same as arguing for a socialist utopia. To ask the Walton family to pay their workers $15 an hour so that the rest of the taxpayers do not have to shoulder the burden of paying those workers assistance for food and health care is not asking the Walton heirs to become poor although they might have to give up their positions, each one, on America's top 10 list of wealthiest people. The CPI need not go up as there might be some business people willing to provide the same service for less for themselves.

As for looking upon people as widgets (supply and demand) and connecting that to founding principles, may I quote one of those who set the founding principles in motion: "This disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and the powerful, and to despise, or, at least, to neglect persons of poor and mean condition, though necessary both to establish and to maintain the distinction of ranks and the order of society, is, at the same time, the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments."...Adam Smith in The Theory of Moral Sentiments. Good luck finding support for voodoo economics amongst the founding fathers who were a decidedly anti-corporate group of relatively progressive thinkers even by today's standards, and heretical Deists to boot.

[Publicus]

Everybody complains about the corrupt people in the financial sector, but nobody complains when they are making money. Once the markets go pear shaped, it's a little too late.

Written by a " Zillionaire "

The Pitchforks Are Coming…

Many of us think we’re special because “this is America.” We think we’re immune to the same forces that started the Arab Spring—or the French and Russian revolutions, for that matter. I know you fellow .01%ers tend to dismiss this kind of argument

Here’s what I say to you: You’re living in a dream world. What everyone wants to believe is that when things reach a tipping point and go from being merely crappy for the masses to dangerous and socially destabilizing, that we’re somehow going to know about that shift ahead of time.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

The young zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer who wrote the superb and easily readable article in your link embodies the future of the United States so he has no connection to anything you post think or believe.

I've borrowed the link from your post to put it here in my post so interested people can read his piece in the proper and significant context.

The dynamic capitalist Hanauer is where the United States is going so everyone will hear a lot more from him in the coming times. The U.S. won't get there during Barack Obama's presidency but it will get there by the time Obama's daughters graduate from college.

Reading Hanauer's article also shows how so many people underestimate the United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself. The United States will cease to be a nation state only when the nation state itself ceases to exist and that will be good too.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

[ClutchClark]

First of all, we have too much debt because we bend over backwards to take care of the lazy and poor. It is not America's responsibility to create high interest bearing accounts for people. They can invest in ETFs, mutual funds and alternatives.

We have too much debt because of our underfunded military spending and not because of taking care of the poor. And the poor are not always "lazy" as the working poor at Walmart and elsewhere still require government assistance to survive; thus the push for a $15 minimum wage. And the working poor, the vast lower middle class making median income and below do not have the ability to put their meager savings at risk in any market fund or related derivative. They can only deposit what little they have in a bank and hope for the best. So now the banks pay them less than 1% and charge them 30% on their credit card balance and then on top of that, thanks to fractional banking, lend out what is left many times over at well above 1%. To reword your thought, perhaps it is not the government's responsibility to create extremely low interest rates for the corporate ruling elite at the expense of the public at large. But I am a fan of Keynes and believe that it is the responsibility of the government to intervene when things get out of balance. But today the political power in the US has shifted to the corporate citizen at the expense of the ordinary taxpaying citizen and government intervention takes the wrong path in the unrelenting class warfare against the worker.

Also, pretty stupid to drive up CPI for those that don't apply themselves in school, get a higher education or work hard to rise above minimum wage.

The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans.

The economy is structured to require the jobs that employ the people the Blue Dogs spit on every day. Those blue collar low income employees work menial jobs or low skill jobs for a pittance. They show up every day and work and that is honorable.

The sick lame and lazy American is a small percentage of the population whose presence is overblown due to Blue Dog biases, prejudices and passe notions such as rugged individualism..

The structurally trapped Americans deserve a decent wage for themselves and their families, dependents, loved ones. In a society as wealthy and prosperous as the United States, the poor should consist of a temporary population that has somehow slipped through cracks, not a large swath of the population that lives their lives in want or need.

Just arriving at the convo quite late but I think your description of "working class blue-collar American" is largely antiquated.

How would you define this "group" today?

Thanks "Publicus"...please notice no shortening of your name.

[Publicus]

The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans.

The economy is structured to require the jobs that employ the people the Blue Dogs spit on every day. Those blue collar low income employees work menial jobs or low skill jobs for a pittance. They show up every day and work and that is honorable.

The sick lame and lazy American is a small percentage of the population whose presence is overblown due to Blue Dog biases, prejudices and passe notions such as rugged individualism..

The structurally trapped Americans deserve a decent wage for themselves and their families, dependents, loved ones. In a society as wealthy and prosperous as the United States, the poor should consist of a temporary population that has somehow slipped through cracks, not a large swath of the population that lives their lives in want or need.

Just arriving at the convo quite late but I think your description of "working class blue-collar American" is largely antiquated.

How would you define this "group" today?

Thanks "Publicus"...please notice no shortening of your name.

I pretty much had forgot you existed so welcome back anyway Were you in the States?

You need to read the link from my post above so you and I can chat on some mutual ground in the thread.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

[ClutchClark]

The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans.

The economy is structured to require the jobs that employ the people the Blue Dogs spit on every day. Those blue collar low income employees work menial jobs or low skill jobs for a pittance. They show up every day and work and that is honorable.

The sick lame and lazy American is a small percentage of the population whose presence is overblown due to Blue Dog biases, prejudices and passe notions such as rugged individualism..

The structurally trapped Americans deserve a decent wage for themselves and their families, dependents, loved ones. In a society as wealthy and prosperous as the United States, the poor should consist of a temporary population that has somehow slipped through cracks, not a large swath of the population that lives their lives in want or need.

Just arriving at the convo quite late but I think your description of "working class blue-collar American" is largely antiquated.

How would you define this "group" today?

Thanks "Publicus"...please notice no shortening of your name.

I pretty much had forgot you existed so welcome back anyway Were you in the States?

You need to read the link from my post above so you and I can chat on some mutual ground in the thread.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

Naw, I was provided an opportunity to review the finer nuances of the TV Rules after I submitted a poorly worded post that was very easily misinterpreted.

I will be returning to the US for good quite shortly. My wife & I have left the village and returned to our rented BKK condo in final preparations for my departure. I will be moving back to my land and farm in CO much to my childrens' delight.

I agreed with your above comment, "The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans"; however, defining the blue-collar American worker in contemporary society is much different than it was when the phrase was coined. Today, most Blue-Collar workers identify with the Republican Party. Unless we are talking about the endangered species of Union worker and the rapidly growing population of Hispanic Blue-Collar worker--both of which recognize voting Republican is voting against their self-interest.

Cheers

Edited October 26, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Publicus]

The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans.

The economy is structured to require the jobs that employ the people the Blue Dogs spit on every day. Those blue collar low income employees work menial jobs or low skill jobs for a pittance. They show up every day and work and that is honorable.

The sick lame and lazy American is a small percentage of the population whose presence is overblown due to Blue Dog biases, prejudices and passe notions such as rugged individualism..

The structurally trapped Americans deserve a decent wage for themselves and their families, dependents, loved ones. In a society as wealthy and prosperous as the United States, the poor should consist of a temporary population that has somehow slipped through cracks, not a large swath of the population that lives their lives in want or need.

Just arriving at the convo quite late but I think your description of "working class blue-collar American" is largely antiquated.

How would you define this "group" today?

Thanks "Publicus"...please notice no shortening of your name.

I pretty much had forgot you existed so welcome back anyway Were you in the States?

You need to read the link from my post above so you and I can chat on some mutual ground in the thread.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

Naw, I was provided an opportunity to review the finer nuances of the TV Rules after I submitted a poorly worded post that was very easily misinterpreted.

I will be returning to the US for good quite shortly. My wife & I have left the village and returned to our rented BKK condo in final preparations for my departure. I will be moving back to my land and farm in CO much to my childrens' delight.

I agreed with your above comment, "The Blue Dog Democrat of the South and smattered around other spots in the U.S. just don't relate to working class blue collar Americans"; however, defining the blue-collar American worker in contemporary society is much different than it was when the phrase was coined. Today, most Blue-Collar workers identify with the Republican Party. Unless we are talking about the endangered species of Union worker and the rapidly growing population of Hispanic Blue-Collar worker--both of which recognize voting Republican is voting against their self-interest.

Cheers

Blue collar worker is defined differently as the economy changes because of globalization and certainly technology, and as the number of 'em becomes reduced, but it essentially id's workers in the trades, industry broadly but in manufacturing especially, workers in medium skilled employment and the like.

More than anything else however blue collar refers to the upwardly mobile worker who uses their hands to manipulate tools in order to produce goods. It's the upwardly mobile aspect of it that stands out in identifying or describing the blue collar worker. It's the upwardly mobile from working class to middle class, although at times the line can get blurred.

While white collar workers, i.e., those with education and/or high skills training, are virtually guaranteed at least some upward mobility, the blue collar worker expected it and regarded it as a given. Start for example at $10 bucks an hour and get up to $13 then $18 depending on the point in time over the past 60 or so years.

That's gone now. Very little upward mobility in those terms -- or in any terms. Which is what the zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer precisely addresses in the link I had recommended to you and which I again recommend to you. Hanauer's article is a remarkably easy and informative read that should be required reading to posting at a thread such as this one.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

I hadn't realized you were away for this long....whew!

[ClutchClark]

Blue collar worker is defined differently as the economy changes because of globalization and certainly technology, and as the number of 'em becomes reduced, but it essentially id's workers in the trades, industry broadly but in manufacturing especially, workers in medium skilled employment and the like.

More than anything else however blue collar refers to the upwardly mobile worker who uses their hands to manipulate tools in order to produce goods. It's the upwardly mobile aspect of it that stands out in identifying or describing the blue collar worker. It's the upwardly mobile from working class to middle class, although at times the line can get blurred.

While white collar workers, i.e., those with education and/or high skills training, are virtually guaranteed at least some upward mobility, the blue collar worker expected it and regarded it as a given. Start for example at $10 bucks an hour and get up to $13 then $18 depending on the point in time over the past 60 or so years.

That's gone now. Very little upward mobility in those terms -- or in any terms. Which is what the zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer precisely addresses in the link I had recommended to you and which I again recommend to you. Hanauer's article is a remarkably easy and informative read that should be required reading to posting at a thread such as this one.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

I hadn't realized you were away for this long....whew!

I did read your link to Hanauer when you first suggested it. Its of some interest but its not really covering any new ground, its all been long-identified and written before but catches headlines this time simply because of the author.

I don't disagree with much of his perception except to say he suggests this income disparity should be the priority of his 0.1% of the population and I would contend that that group will possibly accept its a "collective concern" but will never be a "personal concern" and therefore they will go on doing what they do--exploiting those blue-collar workers to the fullest or lose market share to their peers that do.

Your own definition of "blue-collar" is quite descriptive--thanks.

[Publicus]

Blue collar worker is defined differently as the economy changes because of globalization and certainly technology, and as the number of 'em becomes reduced, but it essentially id's workers in the trades, industry broadly but in manufacturing especially, workers in medium skilled employment and the like.

More than anything else however blue collar refers to the upwardly mobile worker who uses their hands to manipulate tools in order to produce goods. It's the upwardly mobile aspect of it that stands out in identifying or describing the blue collar worker. It's the upwardly mobile from working class to middle class, although at times the line can get blurred.

While white collar workers, i.e., those with education and/or high skills training, are virtually guaranteed at least some upward mobility, the blue collar worker expected it and regarded it as a given. Start for example at $10 bucks an hour and get up to $13 then $18 depending on the point in time over the past 60 or so years.

That's gone now. Very little upward mobility in those terms -- or in any terms. Which is what the zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer precisely addresses in the link I had recommended to you and which I again recommend to you. Hanauer's article is a remarkably easy and informative read that should be required reading to posting at a thread such as this one.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

I hadn't realized you were away for this long....whew!

I did read your link to Hanauer when you first suggested it. Its of some interest but its not really covering any new ground, its all been long-identified and written before but catches headlines this time simply because of the author.

I don't disagree with much of his perception except to say he suggests this income disparity should be the priority of his 0.1% of the population and I would contend that that group will possibly accept its a "collective concern" but will never be a "personal concern" and therefore they will go on doing what they do--exploiting those blue-collar workers to the fullest or lose market share to their peers that do.

Your own definition of "blue-collar" is quite descriptive--thanks.

Correct, Hanauer did not invent the idea yesterday and while he's not alone in pursuing it vigorously, he remains in the minority of the 0.01% which is why his article envoks pitchforks. Few things get the attention of the ultra-wealthy than the masses with pitchforks, in this instance the washed masses besides.

The ongoing generations of U.S. super capitalists have always come around to realize that it's in their personal best interests to accept a more economic distribution of the wealth. That is true whether it was T.R. Roosevelt beating 'em about the head and shoulders or FDR cramming it down their throats.

The changes Hanauer discussed in his article and which already are occurring will accelerate, encompass the society and become the rule of everyday life. You can take that to the bank.

[NeverSure]

The so called American Dream.....is about to become a little nightmarish.

Who said, “The battle in which you are locked today is the mother of all battles,..Our rendezvous with victory is very near”

Who said, when there were 16 countries in the Soviet Union, "We will bury you."

Who said, "The die is now cast; the colonies must ... submit .... we must not retreat."

Guys who are now buried.

[Asiantravel]

Everybody complains about the corrupt people in the financial sector, but nobody complains when they are making money. Once the markets go pear shaped, it's a little too late.

Written by a " Zillionaire "

The Pitchforks Are Coming…

Many of us think we’re special because “this is America.” We think we’re immune to the same forces that started the Arab Spring—or the French and Russian revolutions, for that matter. I know you fellow .01%ers tend to dismiss this kind of argument

Here’s what I say to you: You’re living in a dream world. What everyone wants to believe is that when things reach a tipping point and go from being merely crappy for the masses to dangerous and socially destabilizing, that we’re somehow going to know about that shift ahead of time.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

The young zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer who wrote the superb and easily readable article in your link embodies the future of the United States so he has no connection to anything you post think or believe.

I've borrowed the link from your post to put it here in my post so interested people can read his piece in the proper and significant context.

The dynamic capitalist Hanauer is where the United States is going so everyone will hear a lot more from him in the coming times. The U.S. won't get there during Barack Obama's presidency but it will get there by the time Obama's daughters graduate from college.

Reading Hanauer's article also shows how so many people underestimate the United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself. The United States will cease to be a nation state only when the nation state itself ceases to exist and that will be good too.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

" United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself "

when are you likely to see signs of that starting to happen ? where are the jobs coming from ? 50 million on foodstamps

[lovetotravel]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-islam/america-doing-well-contrary-to-popular-opinion_b_4676060.html

Contrary to Popular Opinion: America Doing Well (Relatively) Economically and Competitively

.............

The overall competitiveness assessment rankings for 2012-2013 were: United States - 7, China - 29, Brazil - 48, India - 59, and Russia - 67. The U.S. ranking stayed the same as in the prior year. China dropped three places. Brazil jumped up five places. India dropped only three places but has fallen 10 places from its peak in 2009. Russia fell one place.

The overall competitiveness assessment rankings by the WEF in its report for 2013-2014 (using performance data for 2012) were: United States - 5, a gain of two places; China - 29, stayed the same; Brazil - 56, fell eight places; India - 60, fell one place; and Russia - 64, gained three places.

Stay away from tin foil hat websites.

[thailiketoo]

" United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself "

when are you likely to see signs of that starting to happen ? where are the jobs coming from ? 50 million on foodstamps

Check out who has the most on foodstamps/social welfare programs.

Edited October 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

" United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself "

when are you likely to see signs of that starting to happen ? where are the jobs coming from ? 50 million on foodstamps

Check out who has the most on foodstamps/social welfare programs.

Almost Half of America on Welfare

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/mikeshedlock/2014/08/24/almost-half-of-america-on-welfare-n1882483

How many makes no difference at all. A child may get a carton of milk at school that costs 10 cents. How much per GDP is the crucial difference.

Edited October 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Publicus]

There are shapshots in time and there are trends.

I've cited a link that discusses the trending future of the United States.

It's there for the people who want to know about it and that are not chronic deniers.

Here it is again. I look forward to discussing its substance with the naysayers and the nattering nabobs of negativism.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

[mania]

Here it is again.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

I thought it was well written level headed common sense type article.

I agree in many ways ....of course

But I also have a hunch I know where it leads.

Not so much because of folks like this guy who seems to have a great idea &

savvy business head on his shoulders

But because when ever costs are increased those who are used to reaping XXX profit will just unilaterally raise

prices to make amends for the cost increase.

Not unlike what happened with Unions driving up labor costs. Those businesses did not say oh well we will just make less.

They raised their prices till they were no longer competitive then left for greener pastures/cheaper labor off shore.

So in some ways it is a vicious circle till it is broken I guess.

But I like his outlook & obviously he seems to care which is more than

many.

[Briggsy]

I got as far as the first paragraph before dismissing the whole piece as yet another bunch of crap from the Nation. I mean, really. Markets respond to economic forecasts and economic statistics, not the crap this journalist has come up with.

[ClutchClark]

I did read your link to Hanauer when you first suggested it. Its of some interest but its not really covering any new ground, its all been long-identified and written before but catches headlines this time simply because of the author.

I don't disagree with much of his perception except to say he suggests this income disparity should be the priority of his 0.1% of the population and I would contend that that group will possibly accept its a "collective concern" but will never be a "personal concern" and therefore they will go on doing what they do--exploiting those blue-collar workers to the fullest or lose market share to their peers that do.

Your own definition of "blue-collar" is quite descriptive--thanks.

Correct, Hanauer did not invent the idea yesterday and while he's not alone in pursuing it vigorously, he remains in the minority of the 0.01% which is why his article envoks pitchforks. Few things get the attention of the ultra-wealthy than the masses with pitchforks, in this instance the washed masses besides.

The ongoing generations of U.S. super capitalists have always come around to realize that it's in their personal best interests to accept a more economic distribution of the wealth. That is true whether it was T.R. Roosevelt beating 'em about the head and shoulders or FDR cramming it down their throats.

The changes Hanauer discussed in his article and which already are occurring will accelerate, encompass the society and become the rule of everyday life. You can take that to the bank.

To the bank?

Heck, that and two bits won't even buy you a cup of coffee.

And your equation worked just fine when America produced products for its own citizens but it completely misses the point that we now live in a global economy. 50the consumers of US manufactured goods are just as likely to live overseas and US consumers are just as likely to buy their goods from Wal-Mart which were made in China.

And before you try turning me into one of your arch enemies, the ultra conservative right-wing wingnut, you better understand I support a higher minimum wage. Not because it means the filthy rich can get even richer exploiting that extra earnings but because if America is truly a world leader then its pretty damned embarrassing we have people who work full-time jobs and are still at poverty level and qualify for public assistance. American workers deserve Dignity.

[ClutchClark]

There are shapshots in time and there are trends.

I've cited a link that discusses the trending future of the United States.

It's there for the people who want to know about it and that are not chronic deniers.

Here it is again. I look forward to discussing its substance with the naysayers and the nattering nabobs of negativism.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

You know something Publicus, I was mistaken, I thought I recalled you actually posting intelligent responses but half you stuff anymore is simply disrespectful namecalling. When you resort to that tactic as often as you then you have admitted to everyone you are defeated.

Quit being lazy. You have quit working to your potential.

[Publicus]

There are shapshots in time and there are trends.

I've cited a link that discusses the trending future of the United States.

It's there for the people who want to know about it and that are not chronic deniers.

Here it is again. I look forward to discussing its substance with the naysayers and the nattering nabobs of negativism.

http://www.politico....ml#.VEy8PckqN-x

You know something Publicus, I was mistaken, I thought I recalled you actually posting intelligent responses but half you stuff anymore is simply disrespectful namecalling. When you resort to that tactic as often as you then you have admitted to everyone you are defeated.

Quit being lazy. You have quit working to your potential.

You forgot to throw in the emoticons too.

Aren't you a guy who hates emoticons in the belief they are used by the less literate, or some such?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Publicus

[Ulysses G.]

You pretty much made his point for him.

[chuckd]

You pretty much made his point for him.

[thailiketoo]

yes that's the link I provided but your quite welcome to use it but it still doesn't alter the fact that it's easy for you make these sweeping blandishments that make you sound like a politician. Are you a politician?

The problem people that have your beliefs can't overcome is America printed trillions of dollars of money like confetti, which had a negligible effect on the jobs market because most of the jobs created are flipping burgers . There were no meaningful jobs created and all that money in QE's did was to blow financial bubbles.

You talk about America reinventing itself like you go from A straight to Z when you can't even tell us how going from A to B can be initiated.

The workforce of the future is going need to be quite intelligent and well-educated to be able to earn high enough salaries to afford all those mortgage repayments but at this moment in time a snapshot of the education system in USA. It doesn't make encouraging reading

Among the 34 OECD countries, the US performed below average in mathematics and is ranked 27th, PISA adds that students in the US have particular weaknesses in performing mathematics tasks with higher cognitive demands, such as taking real-world situations, translating them into mathematical terms, and interpreting mathematical aspects in real-world problems.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/10/25/common-core-math/

If America goes under the world is thrown into depression and the price of gold will skyrocket.

What is the price of gold doing now? The largest economies of the world can't stop functioning or the world dies.

Or does the place you live protect you from the coming global explosion?

I don't think you have really thought the whole mess through.

Your country will be the first one to tank.

Edited October 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[craigt3365]

Enough with the tin foil hat websites and inaccurate statistics. Next post with links to these will earn the member a posting holiday.

[F430murci]

Dow closed at 17,005 today. Nasdaq 4,564 and S&P at 1,985. I hope no one took the market advice of the few and the OP and went short when OP article came out. That was a quick bounce.

[thaibeachlovers]

The young zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer who wrote the superb and easily readable article in your link embodies the future of the United States so he has no connection to anything you post think or believe.

I've borrowed the link from your post to put it here in my post so interested people can read his piece in the proper and significant context.

The dynamic capitalist Hanauer is where the United States is going so everyone will hear a lot more from him in the coming times. The U.S. won't get there during Barack Obama's presidency but it will get there by the time Obama's daughters graduate from college.

Reading Hanauer's article also shows how so many people underestimate the United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself. The United States will cease to be a nation state only when the nation state itself ceases to exist and that will be good too.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

" United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself "

when are you likely to see signs of that starting to happen ? where are the jobs coming from ? 50 million on foodstamps

The western world long ago exceeded it's ability to provide real jobs for it's citizens, and with increasing automation of the jobs that haven't been exported to countries with exploitable workers it becomes even less able to do so every year.

Either mandatory birth control is brought in or expect civil war in the future as deprived people fight the rich for a share of the wealth.

Quotes removed to allow posting

[Publicus]

The young zillionaire capitalist Nick Hanauer who wrote the superb and easily readable article in your link embodies the future of the United States so he has no connection to anything you post think or believe.

I've borrowed the link from your post to put it here in my post so interested people can read his piece in the proper and significant context.

The dynamic capitalist Hanauer is where the United States is going so everyone will hear a lot more from him in the coming times. The U.S. won't get there during Barack Obama's presidency but it will get there by the time Obama's daughters graduate from college.

Reading Hanauer's article also shows how so many people underestimate the United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself. The United States will cease to be a nation state only when the nation state itself ceases to exist and that will be good too.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014_full.html#.VEy8PckqN-x

" United States in its infinite capacity to renew and reinvent itself "

when are you likely to see signs of that starting to happen ? where are the jobs coming from ? 50 million on foodstamps

The western world long ago exceeded it's ability to provide real jobs for it's citizens, and with increasing automation of the jobs that haven't been exported to countries with exploitable workers it becomes even less able to do so every year.

Either mandatory birth control is brought in or expect civil war in the future as deprived people fight the rich for a share of the wealth.

Quotes removed to allow posting

Wrong again.

The present socio-economic transition was foreseen decades ago by many in the elites so the present circumstance is not unanticipated.

The late Robert M. Hutchins for instance held regular seminars and symposia at his California institute to examine post-20th century society in which both automation and more so "cybernetics" as it was called back in the 1970s into the late 1980s would displace people in the economy. The effects of this on society, which are that most people don't have to work, is radical and somewhat akin to the impact the initial Industrial Revolution had in transforming the feudal world into the industrial world.

The Calvinist work ethic is a prominent casualty of this current march of technological invention, innovation, radical progress through the advanced economies of the present world.

Anyone who thinks the CCP Boyz in Beijing or the Maulers in Moscow aren't eventually subject to the same objective conditions of life lives under a shroud of dim light. It's just that the advanced economies, which are in the West, have arrived to this point first.

Radical change in the material conditions of life are occasional but normal and it's also normal that the dim bulbs of the world miss the fact. Your misinterpretations based on your misunderstandings are grotesque so they will be swept aside regardless of the cost. It's called the inevitable and unavoidable march of progress and it walks right over and through those that stand in its way.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Publicus

[Johpa]

Radical change in the material conditions of life are occasional but normal and it's also normal that the dim bulbs of the world miss the fact. Your misinterpretations based on your misunderstandings are grotesque so they will be swept aside regardless of the cost. It's called the inevitable and unavoidable march of progress and it walks right over and through those that stand in its way.

The imagined virtues of "technology" and "progress" are the cargo cults of the western world.

[MJP]

Radical change in the material conditions of life are occasional but normal and it's also normal that the dim bulbs of the world miss the fact. Your misinterpretations based on your misunderstandings are grotesque so they will be swept aside regardless of the cost. It's called the inevitable and unavoidable march of progress and it walks right over and through those that stand in its way.

The imagined virtues of "technology" and "progress" are the cargo cults of the western world.

Cool. Been researching these. That's a STOL bush plane. Ironically, the US are absolute leaders in the design and manufacture of this type of aircraft. They use carbon composite rather than twigs though.

[Publicus]

Radical change in the material conditions of life are occasional but normal and it's also normal that the dim bulbs of the world miss the fact. Your misinterpretations based on your misunderstandings are grotesque so they will be swept aside regardless of the cost. It's called the inevitable and unavoidable march of progress and it walks right over and through those that stand in its way.

The imagined virtues of "technology" and "progress" are the cargo cults of the western world.

Photo courtesy of the Luddite Air Force.

[MJP]

Radical change in the material conditions of life are occasional but normal and it's also normal that the dim bulbs of the world miss the fact. Your misinterpretations based on your misunderstandings are grotesque so they will be swept aside regardless of the cost. It's called the inevitable and unavoidable march of progress and it walks right over and through those that stand in its way.

The imagined virtues of "technology" and "progress" are the cargo cults of the western world.

Photo courtesy of the Luddite Air Force.

I so want to take this off-topic right now but I'm not allowed to.