Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[phuketandsee]

johnthailandjohn, jdinasia, sichonsteve and stutteringparrot seem to have gone strangely quiet. Can't think why.

[ukrules]

The law in the UK is that should a citizen be murdered abroad and the body repatriated

then an independent autopsy has to be carried out before the body is handed back to the family, //

The law in Thailand is that a foreigners who die here (usually) get an autopsy,

and that bodies must be embalmed before being shipped backed to their country.

I wonder what a second autopsy could give on such bodies ?

Where do you get this from ?

[Yann55]

I'm not an expert on DNA and forensic investigation, but should the UK investigators be denied access to the suspects in order to obtain DNA could they not have the parents report to the Embassy or High Commission in Myanmar for a swab? RTP can't stop them from doing this because it is outside Thai jurisdiction. Then compare to perpetrators DNA back in the UK? I couldn't imagine the UK government/police and/or the victims' families NOT having as much evidence taken from the bodies before they were to be interred in such a criminal case. Makes no sense to bury potential evidence in an unresolved case

Well, strange and absurd things happen in cases like this when people's lives are suddenly in shambles, so I wouldn't be too sure that the families were thinking clearly enough to demand anything specific. But apparently, and from what other posters who seem well-informed have written on this thread in reply to my first post, the British police must have done all the necessary sampling. I sure hope they did, and a lot of people hope the same thing.

You mention the possibility that UK investigators might be denied access to the Burmese suspects. Wouldn't that be a clear indication that there's a monstrous set up behind their indictment, though ? Would the local cops take the risk of causing a huge outcry by denying access ? I really don't think they're that thick. If there was a set up, the people who did it would look for other, less conspicuous ways of clouding the facts, and tampering with the evidence is the first thing that comes to mind.

The strange fact in the present situation is that everyone more or less expects (and wants) the UK guys first and foremost to investigate the investigation, not so much the murders themselves.

It goes to show how little trust people have in the local police force. And when I say 'people', I don't mean only the foreigners. To all those who keep writing 'Thailand has done this, Thailand has said that, Thailand is trying to cover up this or that', I would like to remind that an enormous number of Thai people are just as critical and suspicious as the farangs about the way this case has been handled so far by 'their' police.

If it turns out that there was indeed a manipulation of any kind I can foresee how hysterical the Thai Bashing Brigade will get on this Forum, regardless of the fact that only a few people would actually be responsible for this manipulation.

[Bleacher Bum East]

My Prediction: The DNA results will match. Some will then claim the results were somehow rigged by the Thai police. The two will be convicted anyway. And so it goes..

And my prediction: The DNA results will match. The Police rigged them. The British Police will independently verify everything. The RTP will then be caught out for being the thieving, corrupt, disgusting, nasty, lying, scum they really are (yes I'm generalizing). They will also ask for the "mafia" families to supply DNA for testing. That will be refused. The suspects will "commit suicide" or simply be convicted anyway regardless of what the British Police do or say. Everyone forgets and life goes back to how it was. Welcome to Thailand - the Land of (fake) Smiles.

I've thought from the beginning that the police have the right individuals and here's why. Having lived in southern Florida for a number of years, I've seen drifters and the kinds of crimes drifters tend to commit, and this crime has had "drifter" written all over it from the beginning IMO.

As the old saying goes: a dog won't take a dump in his own backyard. I cannot easily see someone who lives on Koh Tao and makes their living there doing something like this. Maybe, but I don't think so.

Ah irony ...

With an alias like "Tom Joad" I assume you've done a close read of the book, or at least watched the movie, and that you have a high degree of appreciation for how local bosses and authorities often use, manipulate and abuse vulnerable migrant workers.

You should also be able to appreciate how the attitude you revealed in your post is one of the main reasons many local bosses and authorities around the globe feel they can get away with anything, and direct their preferred outcome of any situation.

And while most top dogs may be smart enough not to take a dump in their own backyard and have the self-control to avoid doing so, the arrogant youthful pups and street dogs they hang out with may not be so wise or have so much self-control.

It remains to be seen how this plays out, and I don't know which way it will turn or who the actual killers are (nobody does right now), but I think we're beyond labeling tendencies at this point. If we're not, then there's a lot of stereotypical tendencies that could be pointed out on both sides of the debate.

In any event, it will certainly be interesting to watch it unfold. I just hope that at the end of the day all of those involved in this horrific crime are arrested, charged, convicted and appropriately punished, whoever they are.

BTW if you're going to slap a label on somebody, I don't think "drifter" is the right one for a young man who has stayed in one location for a couple of years working and sending money to his family. Would someone from Texas who moved to Florida and lived in the same place and worked the same job for three years be considered a "drifter"? Regardless of guilt or innocence, "migrant worker" is a much better way to describe them. And if the two Arakanese men aren't "drifters" as you refer to them as, that kind of shoots down your whole theory, doesn't it?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[The Deerhunter]

OH YEAA

This is what we wanted all along, objective reached.

BIG thanks to everyone who made a fuss and helped get the word out.

For once its one up to the good guys.

It's not over till the fat lady sings!

Haven't heard anything about the skinny lady (Ms Porntip) being allowed anywhere near the case, either. The RTP do NOT like her looking into their cases. She finds things she shouldn't. Now, boys, this is about Kho Tau, not bombsniffers so please stay on topic now i have mentioned her, which IS topic related..

[akampa]

Why was Nomsods father allowed on the crime scene. Why would he want to be there. I find that very strange. Could any member of the public simply pop over and help out...

Because he owns the island and the police.

He could literally get away with murder anything.

Even the president of the United States or the PM of the UK is not above the law ,Justice will be served one way or another ,nobody should be above the law !

[joecoolfrog]

This is good news in respect of the Burmese , their guilt or innocence should now be resolved in a fair and transparent fashion. I sincerely doubt the full story will ever emerge or that justice will be fully served but a crumb of comfort will be the knowledge that social media can be a force to be reckoned with in future.

[transam]

If the UK didn't give a shit they would not get involved....Sure, all you crap talkers wait and see what happens.....

I really hope I can shoot a few here down in flames..........I really hope so.....

[recom273]

Just saw on my twitter feed .. DPM Prawit Wongsuwan said British police will be only observers and will not involve in the investigation into the murders on Koh Tao.

[JoeLing]

I'm thinking that we are witnessing the final showdown between the military and the police in their power struggle.

Other posters have also alluded to this - Prayuth, in his new "international" role has been rudely awakened to the fact that Thailand is not the perfect, superior, isolated paradise and does have to answer to world opinion - like it or not.

He must be acutely aware that, in the eyes of the rest of the world, the disgraceful actions of the R.T.P. have caused Thailand and therefore he, as it's representative, severe embarrassment and, being that this man is far from stupid, he might just have decided to throw them to the wolves in an attempt to regain international credibility.

If I'm right, and time will tell, he will have made a very shrewd move.

He will have cemented his status as a true statesman whilst also salvaging the reputation of Thailand, ensuring that the Thai military are firmly in control of events and allowing the first real shakeup of the worthless R.T.P.

I'm only speculating, of course, but it would indeed be a fascinating scenario if it turns out to be true.........................

It would be far too much to hope for.

But what an opportunity to completely cull, and I mean completely cull the top ranks and appoint some junior police officers. The country would be no worse off with new police chiefs as it appears the majority now on top are pretty useless, corrupt and ineffective only interested in their own benefits.

There is also the need to the equivalent of the Wood's Royal commission instigated in NSW a few years back - now that really sorted out the goodies and the baddies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_South_Wales_Police_Service

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, the opportunity to swing around Thai and World opinion

and give backcredibility to Thailand is presented on a golden plate. The timing is just right.

The world’s media attention is once again still on Thailand due to this appalling investigation

into the Koh Tao murders. World media has highlighted murder, corruption, drug dealing

and human rights violations. Every single issue Thailand has been condemned for in the

past, in one spot, on a couple of tinny island in the Gulf of Thailand.

Wouldn't this incident be the right moment to clarify to the world, why the takeover on the

23 of May 2014 was necessary "in order for the country to return to normality quickly, and

for society to love and be at peace again".

Isn't it just the right time to show the international communities how sincere his Excellency

is with his promises to bringing happiness back to people, eradicate corruption, battle against

inequality?

I'm convinced, if the Thai government would make an example and prosecute every single one

involved with any "criminal activities" exposed in this one brutal murder case on Koh Tao and

punish them according to Thai law, World and Thai opinion would instantly change for the better.

Would probably be that long needed warning shot who wakes up all of Thailand.

The chance to give his Excellency, PM Prayuth Can-ocha and Thailand as a Nation a new lease

of credibility within the local and global community is right here.

America might [or might not] put Thailand back up in the second tier on the next TIP report.

Economic forecasts might improve again,

Tourism will bounce back again,

For sure, Prayuth’s and Thailand’s popularity rating would increase dramatically.

Hopefully, I win the lottery and his Excellency PM Prayuth Can-ocha has finally made a step

in to the right direction and give the Thai people a chance to rebuild a “Land of Smiles”. The

majority of Thai people are good people and have suffered enough under past administrations.

It’s time to change at least some of the “Traditions” this country suffered for such a long time.

Suppose, time will tell if this is a new start for Thailand or just an other face saving promotion

campaign for Prayuth Can-ocha and the system.

Edited October 18, 2014 by JoeLing

[JLCrab]

The law in the UK is that should a citizen be murdered abroad and the body repatriated

then an independent autopsy has to be carried out before the body is handed back to the family, //

The law in Thailand is that a foreigners who die here (usually) get an autopsy,

and that bodies must be embalmed before being shipped backed to their country.

I wonder what a second autopsy could give on such bodies ?

Where do you get this from ?

UK FCO -- Information Relating to Deaths in Thailand

Repatriation

Thai undertakers will provide the special caskets required for the international carriage of human remains. A local civil registry death certificate, a certificate of embalming, and a certificate permitting transfer of the remains to the UK is required to repatriate the deceased.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284901/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_Jan_2014_-_lastest_edition.pdf

[kkup]

The trolls mustn't get paid for weekends.. Common Johnnyt show ya face bra

[wackybacky]

Proving it's not these two Burmese lads is fairly easy. Once it's proved it's not them then, hopefully the real culprits are caught....

Unlike you Franky, the British police won't decide who is guilty or innocent before actually knowing.

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Strange you should say this, but I have often wondered if there hasn't already been UK police (probably CID) on the island posing as tourists the moment this all started to look sour.

That often sat in the back of my mind. Obviously not able to openly investigate, but to sit in bars chatting with people and collecting intel.

You think they wouldn't do this?

[phuketandsee]

"See, mine's much bigger"

Edited October 18, 2014 by phuketandsee

[kkup]

If Thailand wants to be a global player then no more "thai only" shenanigans, especially when foreign nationals have been murdered, show some respect. Either man up and allow the Brits to do their job or suffer a full blown travel warning from every country that values the safety of their citizens.

[Franky Bear]

Just saw on my twitter feed .. DPM Prawit Wongsuwan said British police will be only observers and will not involve in the investigation into the murders on Koh Tao.

I saw too mate. Now's when we see how genuine the PM's words and promises were

[Artisi]

Really? You believe there are some British police officers 100% fluent in Thai, some 100% fluent in Burmese and, some 100% fluent in the uncommon dialect spoken by the 2 accused.

Are you Thai?

Somebody working for the British Government certainly is. There was a full translation of the FCO statement released in parallel to the English announcement. I doubt they had somebody run down the local Thai restaurant to get it done.

Thanks for that. Aren't there some real dummies on this forum? The British police (as well as other European police) have people working for them who speak fluent Thai, Russian, French, and on and on. In Los Angeles, the L.A.P.D. have officers and detectives who speak fluent Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, Russian, Spanish........come on people, these are professional homicide detectives from a special unit trained in International matters. Do some of you think the U.K. is going to send a few village bobbies or hobby bobbies to Thailand for an International murder investigation? Some of you should use your brains before posting!

Brains, now that is a real stretch for some.

[kaobang]

"See, mine's much bigger"

can you please give a link?

any pic of him with the australian foreign minister Bishop?

[Neeranam]

My rating for both David Cameron and General Prayuth Chan-o-cha has just stepped up a notch,

Both of them are knob ends.

As for Prayuth, this is just a humiliating climb down as Thailands place in the world pecking order finally sinks in. He now knows hes a big fish in a small pond.The UK means 1 million tourists and billions in trade each year to Thailand. Thailand means a few high so students and a few cases of Scotch in trade to the UK.

He simply is in no position to start a diplomatic incident from this position. Sadly it took him weeks to realise this.

I very much doubt if calling him that is allowed in the new regime.

Do you think if Cameron tells British people they can't travel to Thailand, they'd listen to him?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Neeranam

[Artisi]

johnthailandjohn, jdinasia, sichonsteve and stutteringparrot seem to have gone strangely quiet. Can't think why.

Probably licking their wounds and waiting on more instructions -- stay tuned ................

[nicolas18]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

[joecoolfrog]

Perhaps those who expected Kent and Cameron to charge in like demented Rambos , have know learnt a lesson....Only kidding , keyboard warriors are invincible !

[JOC]

Going to be interesting to read to posts here IF the British police confirm, that the Thai police has indeed done an excellent job and arrested the right guys!!

[kaobang]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

not sure about that.

in 2002 australian police conducted investigation in Bali

Edited October 18, 2014 by kaobang

[Franky Bear]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to square one :/

[Artisi]

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Strange you should say this, but I have often wondered if there hasn't already been UK police (probably CID) on the island posing as tourists the moment this all started to look sour.

That often sat in the back of my mind. Obviously not able to openly investigate, but to sit in bars chatting with people and collecting intel.

You think they wouldn't do this?

I would suggest there are always a few here - floating around, finger on the pulse, collecting intel, watching for their own crims on the lam, watching out for others looking towards the UK - you don't really think the western world countries sit round at home hoping to have a good insight to what is going on outside their own country, do you?

[bertty]

johnthailandjohn, jdinasia, sichonsteve and stutteringparrot seem to have gone strangely quiet. Can't think why.

Probably licking their wounds and waiting on more instructions -- stay tuned ................

Those guy's remit was to convince everyone on this forum that the Burmese where the guilty party. Sadly in the end they didn't even believe it themselves.

They are now starting a 10 year stretch or are a part of the concrete evidence we were all supposed to buy into.

Edited October 18, 2014 by bertty

[wackybacky]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

While in other newspapers it states that they are being allowed to 'help' or 'assist' in the investigation and also DNA retesting was also specifically pointed out by diplomatic sources.

But I see you have spent all day now trying to badger the entire thread that the UK HAVE NO RIGHTS.....

It is personally starting to pi** me off.

You clearly are of the deranged mindset that you don't WANT the UK police to have any hand in clearing this whole charade up.

It seems to fit your wishes that they are snubbed out.

I seriously have to stick you on the ignore list...... I don't trust your desires in this. I find your attitude as about as distasteful as it gets.

Consider yourself exposed.

Edited October 18, 2014 by wackybacky

[kkup]

Australian Travel Warning for Thailand is currently: "Exercise High Degree Of Caution"

If Thailand PM doesnt play ball I'll make sure the Aussie Embassy gets enough complaints about assaults and robberies that they will up the warning to "Do not Travel"..

If other countries follow suit then tourism should drop another 50% which will result in a few billion baht lost.

Maybe then they can reconsider the importance of protecting hiso's and decide if they have any respect for foreigners.

[Artisi]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to square one :/

well not really, a few smart coppers will collect a mile of good info standing around as "observers", this can be feed into the right areas - including any "proper" legal assistance the accused have looking after their interests, also to the UK news papers etc. Don't ever think that all the Poms are a useless lot of umbrella carrying top hat wearers.