Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[Franky Bear]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to square one :/

well not really, a few smart coppers will collect a mile of good info standing around as "observers", this can be feed into the right areas - including any "proper" legal assistance the accused have looking after their interests, also to the UK news papers etc. Don't ever think that all the Poms are a useless lot of umbrella carrying top hat wearers.

I'm a Pom haha. My old man was a Cop there 30 years mate. I'm firmly on your side. You're right mate [emoji106]

[Strangebrew]

To the families: of David and Hannah Even though we didn't have the pleasure to know your children We the expat's from all over got together 60,000 Plus and signed a petition To give voice to them to bring closure to there sudden and senseless Loss of life, and hopefully bring the person or persons responsible to justice. RIP David and Hannah.

[nicolas18]

While in other newspapers it states that they are being allowed to 'help' or 'assist' in the investigation and also DNA retesting was also specifically pointed out by diplomatic sources.

But I see you have spent all day now trying to badger the entire thread that the UK HAVE NO RIGHTS.....

It is personally starting to pi** me off.

You clearly are of the deranged mindset that you don't WANT the UK police to have any hand in clearing this whole charade up.

It seems to fit your wishes that they are snubbed out.

I seriously have to stick you on the ignore list...... I don't trust your desires in this. I find your attitude as about as distasteful as it gets.

Consider yourself exposed.

Well, you are right in saying that the UK has no "rights" in this matter. The murder happened on foreign soil. If the UK wants access to the investigation, its only option is to apply diplomatic pressure (which they did).

As for the observer part, anyone who believed Thailand was going to allow a foreign police force to conduct their own separate investigation, parallel to the one from the RTP, is seriously deluded or hasn't spent much time in the country.

Glad I made it on your ignore list though!

[wackybacky]

I have said it about 15 times now

They are to be 'observers' in the 'judicial process' which is the court hearing against the Burmese.

But have ALSO been specifically INVITED to send a team of 'INVESTIGATORS' to assist the Thai police.

I swear some people are so non-intelligent they can't understand basic English.

Read the more credible western press rather than the Thai press which is never accurate and changes and contradicts itself several times a day...... sheesh.

[wilcopops]

I welcome this development - but, as others have said, I can't imagine what they are going to do.....unless they get a really good interpreter.....could end up with a couple of seat pommie coppers being stared at by some Thai police who all agree to tell'm nothing.

hopefully they will come better prepared than that.

Read read recently that no laboratories in Thailand are actually properly certified to take and appraise DNA samples - I believe this was out of date, but I haven't seen anything that says their stays has changed.

Lets hope if nothing else the police will come back with a full appraisal of the way the evidence has been handled....and maybe they will be allowed to show the RTP how things are done in a technically and procedurally sophisticated police force?

[mojorison]

Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to square one :/

well not really, a few smart coppers will collect a mile of good info standing around as "observers", this can be feed into the right areas - including any "proper" legal assistance the accused have looking after their interests, also to the UK news papers etc. Don't ever think that all the Poms are a useless lot of umbrella carrying top hat wearers.

They may even talk to the local farang population, who have been absolutely silenced. They'll be talking in the shadows to all and sundry, putting the pieces together. (Of which there are about six, a 12 year old could solve this crime). The amount of information they would already have by examining the bodies in the UK would astonish the local "forensics" muppets... I have never ever seen a crime seen dusted for fingerprints in Thailand... do they know what they are I wonder??

[JOC]

If Thailand wants to be a global player then no more "thai only" shenanigans, especially when foreign nationals have been murdered, show some respect. Either man up and allow the Brits to do their job or suffer a full blown travel warning from every country that values the safety of their citizens.

Get real man!!

Sorry to break it to you, but the Empire collapsed a while back!! Today UK is just another not very important part of Europe!

When considering the number of tourists visiting Thailand every year, I am sure that the murderrate is very low, where tourists are the victims. That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Arrivals from China is 5 times higher than arrivals from the UK. How many Chinese are murdered here??

Ofcourse the brutal murder of the 2 young Brits is a tragidy, but it doesn't stop the world.

This social media frenzy, where the victims are almost forgotten, is almost more scary than the actual murders.

Been here 12 years. Never felt safer anywhere else!

[elektrified]

They already know. MI6 exists for a reason & they are not fools.

You really think Britain's MI6 exists would get involved? Don't you think they might be a little busy doing their real job at the moment? Do you know what their remit is?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Maybe the SAS and SBS are already here in droves too. Disguised as tourists sitting on bar stools recounting their adventures, or dive instructors, or TEFLers?

Strange you should say this, but I have often wondered if there hasn't already been UK police (probably CID) on the island posing as tourists the moment this all started to look sour.

That often sat in the back of my mind. Obviously not able to openly investigate, but to sit in bars chatting with people and collecting intel.

You think they wouldn't do this?

I would suggest there are always a few here - floating around, finger on the pulse, collecting intel, watching for their own crims on the lam, watching out for others looking towards the UK - you don't really think the western world countries sit round at home hoping to have a good insight to what is going on outside their own country, do you?

Spot on. The U.K., USA, Australia, Germany, and a host of other countries always have agents here and in other countries looking out for their criminals who they believe may be hiding here, or people involved in selling narcotics, pedophiles, etc., etc. They may well be some of the people sitting on barstools in Koh Tao and other places in the country. There are quite a few of them up here in Chiang Mai.

[boomerangutang]

I don't think the thai police have the brains to play this game with the British. They will shoot themselves in the foot with every answer they give, every excuse/piece of evidence they produce & they won't even know they've done it until the British inquest is complete.

If this were playing out in a farang country, I would agree with you. However, because this is playing out in Thailand, UK authorities will be going easy on the Thais. I hope I'm wrong, and the Brit investigators take a tough stance on pursuing leads and scrutinizing evidence. However, Thai authorities are going to insist that the investigation focus ONLY on the Burmese suspects. So, best case scenario (for the scapegoats): if the DNA doesn't match the Burmese, they be dropped as suspects (with zero compensation for all the stress and inconvenience put upon them).

If the farang investigators want to DNA-test the headman's family and cop friends, Thai officialdom will do all it can to continue to shield the headman's people from scrutiny. Again, I hope I'm wrong, so we'll see. The saga continues.

[atyclb]

Regarding Gen Prayuth's apparent refusal / slowness to allow uk to cooperate with investigation; if he is actually pre integrity, pro-morality, anti-corription, as he claims to be he cannot hold the police iwuch esteem. perhaps he needed to wait until international pressure and tourism decrease mounted in order to not appear to be going against the police from first base. (anti-thainess)

[boomerangutang]

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Interviewed as he landed at Suvarnabhumi, the self-appointed PM stated that the British police would be observers, not conduct their own investigation (which seems obvious, but some TV members apparently needs to be reminded that a foreign police force has no jurisdiction outside of its own territory).

I would post the link to the interview, but unfortunately, it's on the website of a newspaper which shall-not-be-named-and-definitely-not-linked-to.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand back to square one :/

well not really, a few smart coppers will collect a mile of good info standing around as "observers", this can be feed into the right areas - including any "proper" legal assistance the accused have looking after their interests, also to the UK news papers etc. Don't ever think that all the Poms are a useless lot of umbrella carrying top hat wearers.

They may even talk to the local farang population, who have been absolutely silenced. They'll be talking in the shadows to all and sundry, putting the pieces together. (Of which there are about six, a 12 year old could solve this crime). The amount of information they would already have by examining the bodies in the UK would astonish the local "forensics" muppets... I have never ever seen a crime seen dusted for fingerprints in Thailand... do they know what they are I wonder??

You're assuming the UK agents will be doing a somewhat-thorough investigation, as they would in the UK. I seriously doubt that. Thailand will want to micro-manage this new 'permission' as much as possible. I foresee much of the farang agents' involvement going along the lines of: They ask Thai officials, "may we test such 'n such?" or "Did you ask so 'n so about using a speedboat...." .....and Thai officials will respond with something like: "we already tested for that, and here is the result." or "we already spoke with speedboat drivers, so you don't need to do any of that."

In other words: the investigation will likely continue to micro-managed, similar to the reenactment on the beach.

[Fatty123]

Facepalm at those worried the UK cops won't bring an interpreter or two. Somehow, I think they've already thought of that one.

[wackybacky]

I don't think the thai police have the brains to play this game with the British. They will shoot themselves in the foot with every answer they give, every excuse/piece of evidence they produce & they won't even know they've done it until the British inquest is complete.

If this were playing out in a farang country, I would agree with you. However, because this is playing out in Thailand, UK authorities will be going easy on the Thais. I hope I'm wrong, and the Brit investigators take a tough stance on pursuing leads and scrutinizing evidence. However, Thai authorities are going to insist that the investigation focus ONLY on the Burmese suspects. So, best case scenario (for the scapegoats): if the DNA doesn't match the Burmese, they be dropped as suspects (with zero compensation for all the stress and inconvenience put upon them).

If the farang investigators want to DNA-test the headman's family and cop friends, Thai officialdom will do all it can to continue to shield the headman's people from scrutiny. Again, I hope I'm wrong, so we'll see. The saga continues.

We also need to be aware that this cooperation being offered (however scant) is only because of the situation at the moment with pressure from the public, diplomats, human rights observers, Amnesty International, foreign police forces, lawyers, media and social media and now a house of commons hearing..... So lots of pressure there.

So if the UK police come here and are thrown red herrings or face obstruction of access to key elements of evidence etc..... The situation is not going to improve for Thailand is it???

It is like the old cash note on a thread lying on the ground and just as a person bends to pick it up some kid hiding behind a wall pulls the thread and the note skips away from the person who thought they found money...... Only in this case, it isn't a silly practical joke, it is a very very serious and sinister case, and such behaviour of those pulling the thread is seriously going to piss of the person chasing the note.

So it is really just going to piss off a lot of people..... Thailand will actually be making their situation worse..

And for those who keep banging on about the British Empire being dead and an insignificant country... We are the 6th biggest economy in the world and a massive player on the world stage.

You contempt of the British is borne out of pure jealousy and racial hatred, and probably a deep seated feeling of inferiority for the nation you represent.

JOC = ignore list.

[Franky Bear]

Facepalm at those worried the UK cops won't bring an interpreter or two. Somehow, I think they've already thought of that one.

The Brit embassey will supply them

[richard peters]

THE CASEOF THE KOH TAO ISLAND MURDERS IN THAILAND IS NOT CONCLUDED! –

A NEW INTERNATIONAL INQUIRY IS JUST BEGINNING….

VEIW VIDEO REPORT: -

[mistephenso]

Can anyone point me to a Thai news link that categorically states the UK police are 'really' going to be allowed to look at anything regarding this case?
I see plenty of English language reports about this, but nothing from Thailand??

General Prayuth says that the UK PM was "happy" with the answers he gave to 20 questions about David and Hannah's murder/investigation in this (sorry, I can't find the original, only this from CSI LA on Facebook) Channel 3 report.
He also states that he thinks reports of 'protests' against him are fake and have been made up by someone on the internet?! He doesn't mention anything about the UK Police going to Thailand at any time, which I think is pretty telling...??!

Then we have the Chief of Police, saying here that the UK have "NO" authority in Thailand and cannot take over any part of the investigation. Basically, I think he is saying that they will have to put up, or shut up??!

While I hope it isn't true, I think there has been a bit of a 'translation cock-up' somewhere along the line and the UK Police will probably never get to look into anything at the end of the day... Especially not if the RTP have anything to do with it?!

How sad.

[Number 3]

If Thailand wants to be a global player then no more "thai only" shenanigans, especially when foreign nationals have been murdered, show some respect. Either man up and allow the Brits to do their job or suffer a full blown travel warning from every country that values the safety of their citizens.

Get real man!!

Sorry to break it to you, but the Empire collapsed a while back!! Today UK is just another not very important part of Europe!

When considering the number of tourists visiting Thailand every year, I am sure that the murderrate is very low, where tourists are the victims. That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Arrivals from China is 5 times higher than arrivals from the UK. How many Chinese are murdered here??

Ofcourse the brutal murder of the 2 young Brits is a tragidy, but it doesn't stop the world.

This social media frenzy, where the victims are almost forgotten, is almost more scary than the actual murders.

Been here 12 years. Never felt safer anywhere else!

That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Sir, this a shitstir designed to agitate those that actually care about the lives that have been tossed around in the tumble dryer of Thailand ? I do believe we passed through such discussions early on. Please if you have nothing new to offer go back to your gated community. Apologies old chap but this is just tiresome now and frankly not worth the bother.

[draftvader]

If Thailand wants to be a global player then no more "thai only" shenanigans, especially when foreign nationals have been murdered, show some respect. Either man up and allow the Brits to do their job or suffer a full blown travel warning from every country that values the safety of their citizens.

Get real man!!

Sorry to break it to you, but the Empire collapsed a while back!! Today UK is just another not very important part of Europe!

When considering the number of tourists visiting Thailand every year, I am sure that the murderrate is very low, where tourists are the victims. That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Arrivals from China is 5 times higher than arrivals from the UK. How many Chinese are murdered here??

Ofcourse the brutal murder of the 2 young Brits is a tragidy, but it doesn't stop the world.

This social media frenzy, where the victims are almost forgotten, is almost more scary than the actual murders.

Been here 12 years. Never felt safer anywhere else!

Yawn!

UK - 8th largest economy in the world - "a not very important part of Europe"

This murder is about more than these 2 kids. Hopefully their deaths will spark a change for this country that, if you have any good Thai friends here, you should be eager to see happen. Why should this nation of almost identical population size's GDP be 3,720 times smaller than the UK? I'm not in this for my good, it would probably serve me better to shut up and reel my neck in. It's not about me but about the people who love and support me and my family in this country we call home.

[Number 3]

If Thailand wants to be a global player then no more "thai only" shenanigans, especially when foreign nationals have been murdered, show some respect. Either man up and allow the Brits to do their job or suffer a full blown travel warning from every country that values the safety of their citizens.

Get real man!!

Sorry to break it to you, but the Empire collapsed a while back!! Today UK is just another not very important part of Europe!

When considering the number of tourists visiting Thailand every year, I am sure that the murderrate is very low, where tourists are the victims. That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Arrivals from China is 5 times higher than arrivals from the UK. How many Chinese are murdered here??

Ofcourse the brutal murder of the 2 young Brits is a tragidy, but it doesn't stop the world.

This social media frenzy, where the victims are almost forgotten, is almost more scary than the actual murders.

Been here 12 years. Never felt safer anywhere else!

That the Brits are overrepresented in those statistics have more to do with the Brits themselves than the hostcountry.

Sir, this a shitstir designed to agitate those that actually care about the lives that have been tossed around in the tumble dryer of Thailand ? I do believe we passed through such discussions early on. Please if you have nothing new to offer go back to your gated community. Apologies old chap but this is just tiresome now and frankly not worth the bother.

[Carrerakiss]

I'm thinking that we are witnessing the final showdown between the military and the police in their power struggle.

Other posters have also alluded to this - Prayuth, in his new "international" role has been rudely awakened to the fact that Thailand is not the perfect, superior, isolated paradise and does have to answer to world opinion - like it or not.

He must be acutely aware that, in the eyes of the rest of the world, the disgraceful actions of the R.T.P. have caused Thailand and therefore he, as it's representative, severe embarrassment and, being that this man is far from stupid, he might just have decided to throw them to the wolves in an attempt to regain international credibility.

If I'm right, and time will tell, he will have made a very shrewd move.

He will have cemented his status as a true statesman whilst also salvaging the reputation of Thailand, ensuring that the Thai military are firmly in control of events and allowing the first real shakeup of the worthless R.T.P.

I'm only speculating, of course, but it would indeed be a fascinating scenario if it turns out to be true.........................

It would be far too much to hope for.

But what an opportunity to completely cull, and I mean completely cull the top ranks and appoint some junior police officers. The country would be no worse off with new police chiefs as it appears the majority now on top are pretty useless, corrupt and ineffective only interested in their own benefits.

There is also the need to the equivalent of the Wood's Royal commission instigated in NSW a few years back - now that really sorted out the goodies and the baddies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_the_New_South_Wales_Police_Service

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, the opportunity to swing around Thai and World opinion

and give backcredibility to Thailand is presented on a golden plate. The timing is just right.

The worlds media attention is once again still on Thailand due to this appalling investigation

into the Koh Tao murders. World media has highlighted murder, corruption, drug dealing

and human rights violations. Every single issue Thailand has been condemned for in the

past, in one spot, on a couple of tinny island in the Gulf of Thailand.

Wouldn't this incident be the right moment to clarify to the world, why the takeover on the

23 of May 2014 was necessary "in order for the country to return to normality quickly, and

for society to love and be at peace again".

Isn't it just the right time to show the international communities how sincere his Excellency

is with his promises to bringing happiness back to people, eradicate corruption, battle against

inequality?

I'm convinced, if the Thai government would make an example and prosecute every single one

involved with any "criminal activities" exposed in this one brutal murder case on Koh Tao and

punish them according to Thai law, World and Thai opinion would instantly change for the better.

Would probably be that long needed warning shot who wakes up all of Thailand.

The chance to give his Excellency, PM Prayuth Can-ocha and Thailand as a Nation a new lease

of credibility within the local and global community is right here.

America might [or might not] put Thailand back up in the second tier on the next TIP report.

Economic forecasts might improve again,

Tourism will bounce back again,

For sure, Prayuths and Thailands popularity rating would increase dramatically.

Hopefully, I win the lottery and his Excellency PM Prayuth Can-ocha has finally made a step

in to the right direction and give the Thai people a chance to rebuild a Land of Smiles. The

majority of Thai people are good people and have suffered enough under past administrations.

Its time to change at least some of the Traditions this country suffered for such a long time.

Suppose, time will tell if this is a new start for Thailand or just an other face saving promotion

campaign for Prayuth Can-ocha and the system.

I can't help but feel that the General May have been suffering from ivory tower syndrome and just not aware of of the significance of events unfolding in K Tao. His bikini gaff seems to show a man some what out of touch with the lives of everyday folk, certainly farang folk.

Perhaps the words from a British PM were enough to help him understand what the international community expects in such situations.

Once he gets back, and safely in a comfortable domestic environment, I wonder how forcefully he will pass on the message? Others within Thai government and Thai police force will still be on a domestic only page involving age old solutions to issues such as this.

So far as the British investigators are concerned, well time will tell whether they are simply observers, or involved in reviewing Thai police work, or prompting Thai police to follow up leads, or actually investigating themselves. I personally think they'll be keeping a careful note of what hasn't been done, what's been done wrong and what conclusions can been drawn from that.

But it's interesting to note that the primary areas of concern are DNA and forced confessions.

The latter is a mammy pamby western concern as it's pretty much par for the course in SE Asia. Just think of the ex DPM of Malaysia , Anwar, be ng on TV with a real shiner of a black eye after being hit by no less than a deputy police commissioner during questioning. Different country, but the practice is region wide.

The former is more interesting because there would be no point the British making a big deal of it unless they are pretty sure they can find something, or already know something.

Behind the scenes they will undoubtedly be building a case book to British standards, which may, or may not, clear the current suspects.

[wilcopops]

Can anyone point me to a Thai news link that categorically states the UK police are 'really' going to be allowed to look at anything regarding this case?

I see plenty of English language reports about this, but nothing from Thailand??

General Prayuth says that the UK PM was "happy" with the answers he gave to 20 questions about David and Hannah's murder/investigation in this (sorry, I can't find the original, only this from CSI LA on Facebook) Channel 3 report.

He also states that he thinks reports of 'protests' against him are fake and have been made up by someone on the internet?! He doesn't mention anything about the UK Police going to Thailand at any time, which I think is pretty telling...??!

Then we have the Chief of Police, saying here that the UK have "NO" authority in Thailand and cannot take over any part of the investigation. Basically, I think he is saying that they will have to put up, or shut up??!

While I hope it isn't true, I think there has been a bit of a 'translation cock-up' somewhere along the line and the UK Police will probably never get to look into anything at the end of the day... Especially not if the RTP have anything to do with it?!

How sad.

There has been a massive amount of stuff in the international press that didn't make the Thai media - the demos by Italians and the reports on the meeting with the Japanese PM, even in the EL papers is quite risible.

I wouldn't expect the Thai press to make much of this - even the govt critics won't like the idea of UK police snooping about.

As for Radio and TV - it's by and large owned and run by the army.

Edited October 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[Franky Bear]

The PM saying that Cameron was happy with the questions and answers, well, surely we need to know what the questions were.

it could be, "Do you mind if we send some DNA experts please?"..... Thai PM, "Yes ok"

etc etc etc

[bruceybonus]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

A bit off topic but most western police forces would not be threatened by another force asking for assistance or even to be involved in a case. Their aim is to put away the bad guys...

Yeh, you must of seen Black Rain with Michael Douglas and Andy Garcia. MD gets the guys in the end, but AG does get killed about 1/2 way through

[tingtongfarang]

look at the ethnic breakdown for UK police

+1

Rest assured the uk investigators have translators of every language / dialect needed not only onsite but online to confirm translations.

[bruceybonus]

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

Of course they did. They are complete pro's, just like American cops, German cops, etc. Just because they didn't inform you or anyone else in the media - they always do their job.

Knock the Brits, the Americans, the Aussies, etc. all you want. But one thing for sure, they all have well-trained professional cops.

A bit off topic but most western police forces would not be threatened by another force asking for assistance or even to be involved in a case. Their aim is to put away the bad guys...

Yeh, you must of seen Black Rain with Michael Douglas and Andy Garcia. MD gets the guys in the end, but AG does get killed about 1/2 way through

[T_Dog]

Do a Google search on "Prawit: No direct role for British in Koh Tao case" to see a new article in the Bangkok Post on how the British team will only be observers. Guess the cronies are trying to regroup.

[joecoolfrog]

Joc

The Uk is just an 'unimportant part of Europe ' , yet its economy is around 3,000 times the size of Thailand. By your reasoning that makes the later very insignificant indeed does it not ?

[kaobang]

i dont think UK goverment would send a staff of investigators to thailand just to observe..observe what?

Prawith can say what he likes

if Thailand wants really cooperate and let them investigate..it can be done

Indonesia allowed a team of australian cops to investigate and they were not only observers

Edited October 18, 2014 by kaobang

[CharlieH]

Disrespectful post removed.

[MAJIC]

The Cameron bashing only comes from labour preferring 'British red shirts' too.

We get it, you're labour voting working class & proud of it, get over it.

Actually I helped vote Cameron in.

But 2 years ago defected my allegiance over to.

The first and only political party I have ever made a cash donation to in my life.

Wasn't really referring to you, more to other prolific Cameron bashers, just struck me at the time

Dont concern yourself with Cameron bashers,he's as good as gone already,at the general election next year,and he knows it!