Thailand agrees to British police help over murders

[sweatalot]

This must mean that the PM believes that the Burmese guys are guilty and they the Thai police have done a competent investigation otherwise there is no way he could he silly enough to let the UK come and do their own investigation, unless he thinks the UK are too stupid to find out the truth or that the case has been so corrupted that the UK cannot get to the truth i.e. If the original DNA from the victims has been replaced

This must mean ...

Nope

May be the PM now understands that he (and Thailand) has no future when he continues to back the Thai police

[BoristheBlade]

"I heard tell that they have special cars with backseats that lift up, to hide the bodies in."

Yes! the RTP use Toyota Hilux Trucks

[bertty]

The reactions on this site get even more hilarious. Firstly British involvement wont make a blind bit of difference. And secondly the rumour mongerers, amateur sleuths and know it alls of TV can never be satisfied. Many, rather scandalously, will not be happy until they see a Thai up for the crime. Then they can say I told you so and return to looking at the workd through the bottom of their lager glasses. However, i believe that day will not come for this crime, so get used to it.

In one paragraph you have managed to put down Thailand more than those that have posted thousands of posts.

[Pundi6446]

Figging time, but as far as evidence still held, probably long gone.

[TTom911]

This must mean that the PM believes that the Burmese guys are guilty and they the Thai police have done a competent investigation otherwise there is no way he could he silly enough to let the UK come and do their own investigation, unless he thinks the UK are too stupid to find out the truth or that the case has been so corrupted that the UK cannot get to the truth i.e. If the original DNA from the victims has been replaced

This must mean ...

Nope

May be the PM now understands that he (and Thailand) has no future when he continues to back the Thai police

its NOT going to be pretty......

[Neeranam]

The reactions on this site get even more hilarious. Firstly British involvement wont make a blind bit of difference. And secondly the rumour mongerers, amateur sleuths and know it alls of TV can never be satisfied. Many, rather scandalously, will not be happy until they see a Thai up for the crime. Then they can say I told you so and return to looking at the workd through the bottom of their lager glasses. However, i believe that day will not come for this crime, so get used to it.

You haven't been in Thailand long have you?

[ScubaPhuket]

Their only option now is to concede to international law or opt out of the United Nations & begin an era of isolation like North Korea.

I already hear the buzz of telephone wires between China & the PM.

Europe has cut all high level diplomacy. The US has pulled it's ambassador out with no replacement.

Read between the lines people.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[kkup]

What's the bet the court case will proceed asap so they can convict them before the UK detectives get their visas approved.

[BoristheBlade]

From the Telegraph...a Foreign Office Source.....

"There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One if the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification.

Foreign Office translation......Switched!

[bertty]

What's the bet the court case will proceed asap so they can convict them before the UK detectives get their visas approved.

You will probably find there will be no visas needed..

[Thaddeus]

The reactions on this site get even more hilarious. Firstly British involvement wont make a blind bit of difference. And secondly the rumour mongerers, amateur sleuths and know it alls of TV can never be satisfied. Many, rather scandalously, will not be happy until they see a Thai up for the crime. Then they can say I told you so and return to looking at the workd through the bottom of their lager glasses. However, i believe that day will not come for this crime, so get used to it.

Patience is a virtue.

Many on this forum, and I suspect many Thais too, have been waiting for the day when the lies and cover-ups of the RTP over so many years could not only be shown, but could actually be thrown in to stark relief.

This could be the day.

Or would you rather that didn't happen?

[kkup]

Thank you Mr. PM I knew in my heart Your a man of Honor, What you did to allow this to happen Has Shown The world Thailand is working toward the goal of an open Honest and relationship with the global community. Words alone can't say how this made me feel. No matter the results at least you opened the door. Then all this can stop. Also sends message to those that are corrupt no place to run no place to hide your days of same old same old have come to an end.

Don't count your chickens, we haven't heard his own "Thai" version of what was said yet... Wait till he lands in BKK... I'm sure it will be completely different once the Police Chief tells him his "share" will be void if he let's the British get involved.

[minikev]

Even though this is a good sign, showing that people and social media can make a difference, reading between the lines tells me they only want to check the DNA match and do a flimsy check on mistreatment. Firstly, 5 weeks or so should have been enough time to mess about with the samples and swap them to get a match; secondly, the rape could have happened post mortem what means the killer and the rapists are two pair of shoes. The article does not mention the shallow stab wounds on David's body, Sean with the bloody guitar and similar stab wounds is not mentioned, the fat bloke with the shark tooth ring is not mentioned, etc... I fear the case will continue to go south, because the questions that should have ben asked were not asked by the "diplomatic source" whoever that is...

I don't get it Catweazle. You pushed harder than most to get this result and now you've got it you don't think it's good. By the way I salute you for your efforts.

I agreed with a lot of your'e posts but there were many I felt were relying on so called evidence from a certain faceache page. We will now get the real evidence checked by very professional police officers. It will either be verified as real or thrown out. If the latter it will open the door to search for more real evidence.

I'm sure the British police will be working from a pathologists report made in the UK. if it conflicts with what weapon was used they will look at other weapons IE dagger blades and shark tooth rings etc.

I find it very hard to believe that the Thai pathologist's statement that a blunt instrument was used to make the skin split open in such a way on David's injuries could have been false as he knew within a matter of a few days a pathologist in UK would be checking his results.

We will know soon.

I agree with you that it seems they will only initially look at DNA and as to whether their admit ion of guilt was forced, realistically that is all that is needed at present. If either is found to be false they can go further.

[jacksam]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

[wackybacky]

All nice and good.. but lets wait what happens. Remember these are people who don't speak Thai, I wonder if they take an independent translator with them.

If they are being stonewalled still nothing will happen.

Of course they will have their own translators, the British Embassy has its own team of translators, they will provide them.

If they are being stonewalled, then Thailand will learn very fast that Brits are not Thais and they don't do Thainess. If you piss them off, they are likely to get very frustrated and lay into the RTP.

Brits speak their minds, and they will surely be touched by these horrific murders, and any funny business from the RTP is not going to be met with very well.

To the poster who said, the British police will go along with the cover up to save face for Thailand...... You want your head examined.

UK police are pretty tough. no nonsense types... They are professional, but they don't take no shit. I have been on the wrong side of them in the past.... Trust me. They won't take shit from the RTP. They are on the high ground.

[TTom911]

This must mean that the PM believes that the Burmese guys are guilty and they the Thai police have done a competent investigation otherwise there is no way he could he silly enough to let the UK come and do their own investigation, unless he thinks the UK are too stupid to find out the truth or that the case has been so corrupted that the UK cannot get to the truth i.e. If the original DNA from the victims has been replaced

what they will sure find (just assuming it happened) are the plenty of ways evidence has been tempered with...

It's like accounting fraud in a large organisation... it is impossible to do that without leaving tons of traces... the only "line of defence" is trying to prevent people to start digging... once experienced and determined people start digging the house of cards inevitably comes down, 100%, no chance... so, tempering will be easily detected if it happened, and that in itself could be HUGELY damaging for Thailand, again, if it happened....

IF however the FULL TRUTH can be found out after the tempering, well, that I agree, is unfortunately not quite so certain... But let's not rule that out quite yet !

Edited October 18, 2014 by TTom911

[wackybacky]

Thank you Mr. PM I knew in my heart Your a man of Honor, What you did to allow this to happen Has Shown The world Thailand is working toward the goal of an open Honest and relationship with the global community. Words alone can't say how this made me feel. No matter the results at least you opened the door. Then all this can stop. Also sends message to those that are corrupt no place to run no place to hide your days of same old same old have come to an end.

Don't count your chickens, we haven't heard his own "Thai" version of what was said yet... Wait till he lands in BKK... I'm sure it will be completely different once the Police Chief tells him his "share" will be void if he let's the British get involved.

What share?

Of the pay off money????

He has probably already lined himself up at the trough for billions.

This isn't going to risk that for his chief and a cut of this paltry few baht.

[nicolas18]

All nice and good.. but lets wait what happens. Remember these are people who don't speak Thai, I wonder if they take an independent translator with them.

If they are being stonewalled still nothing will happen.

Of course they will have their own translators, the British Embassy has its own team of translators, they will provide them.

If they are being stonewalled, then Thailand will learn very fast that Brits are not Thais and they don't do Thainess. If you piss them off, they are likely to get very frustrated and lay into the RTP.

Brits speak their minds, and they will surely be touched by these horrific murders, and any funny business from the RTP is not going to be met with very well.

To the poster who said, the British police will go along with the cover up to save face for Thailand...... You want your head examined.

UK police are pretty tough. no nonsense types... They are professional, but they don't take no shit. I have been on the wrong side of them in the past.... Trust me. They won't take shit from the RTP. They are on the high ground.

A British policeman has just as much authority in Thailand as I or you do. It's cute that you think they will be able to dictate the course of the investigation over here.

[Artisi]

Clearly the RTP is not to be trusted in Koh Tao or anywhere, at the risk of sounding like an RTP apologist the RTP are not the power on the Island and are as terrified of that power as the other locals are.

The true Koh Tao power can only be taken down by political will and the Army.

I look forward to the comments or report by the British Police.

I wonder what Cameron said to Prayuth

" I wonder what Cameron said to Prayuth", "Lets get it sorted now - or else".

[ScubaPhuket]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

Wrong, wrong & wrong again.

Do some research on international law then realise that no country in this modern world is capable of complete independent authority.

Honestly... I feel like I'm dealing with children here.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[Yann55]

After the endless, complicated and contradictory developments and comments concerning this case, it seems to me that it all boils down to one very simple FIRST action, at this stage, for the British investigators to perform : take a DNA sample from the two Burmese guys, with enough witnesses around so that the authenticity of the samples cannot later be questioned, and then compare them with the DNA that the British investigators have taken in Britain from the body.

The only question is : did the British perform such a sampling or did the body of this poor girl go untouched after entering British soil ? I don't recall reading anywhere, clearly, that British authorities had made such a move after recovering the body.

If the DNA of the Burmese guys is compared with samples provided by the Thai police, there will be no end to suspicion of foul play.

The whole system of evidence based on DNA works on the assumption that no one tampers with the samples because the people who perform the sampling are trustworthy and eager to serve true justice. If and when the people in question become suspicious in the eyes of the public and/or the press, then the whole process amounts to nothing, and so called evidence is rightly seen as potential manipulation.

I think you will find it a matter of standard procedure that post mortems are performed with every death in the UK... Especially in the case of a crime.

No matter where it is committed, the autopsy is done and evidence is collected. That is standard procedure.

There is also an investigation opened even if it is out of their jurisdiction. British people were murdered and the police must open an investigation even if they can do nothing hands on and no matter how limited it is, evidence must be collected. That is also standard procedure.

I also read that a team of murder investigators have already been appointed weeks ago... This was mentioned in the UK press covering Hannah's funeral.

I also read at the time the repatriation of the bodies was being reported that police forensics would be taking DNA samples.

As already mentioned.... It is difficult to sanitise a body totally to remove all DNA traces... It is almost impossible to remove and replace with misleading random DNA to throw police off the scent without it showing up to the trained forensic eye. They are too well trained.

But the thing that will be a problem for the BIB if there is indeed a cover up... The bodies were released after just a few days and repatriated immediately.... At that time, police were looking for farangs if you remember?

There had been no mention about Sean McCanna or Village Headsmen's family members, or anything else that would have triggered a cover up. That came about a week after the bodies already left Thailand.

So at the time there was very little need to tamper with DNA...... But a lot happened after that. Now it is widely suspected of a cover up, and to be quite honest..... I don't think the RTP have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping it going let alone 'credible'.

I can really see a lot of people fleeing not only the island, but Thailand itself.... Including police..... and they do.

Thank you very much, WB, for this clear, extensive and re-assuring information. I am not a British national so I don't know what the standard procedure may be in that country, and I only very occasionally read the British press. So once again, thanks for your input.

One can only hope that the truth will come out fast, then.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has the creeps thinking not only about those two young tourists being savagely murdered on Koh Tao, but also about the two Burmese guys who may be innocent and perhaps deliberately framed. Now, if they are innocent and the fact is proved by reliable investigators, this country's reputation will be dealt a blow in the face like never before. And I, for one, will not be clapping my hands in joy but feel sorry for all the Thais who are not crooked, not corrupt, not invoved in mafia activities and who do not deserve to be vilified and bashed by the sad racist lot on this forum who never tire of negative generalizing about the country where they live.

[nicolas18]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

They will be here as observers, more or less. It's not unheard of, other countries have done the same to appease strained diplomatic relations

[Franky Bear]

I'm sorry if this comes across in anyway insensitive, but I cannot understand how the police force of a foreign country can be involved in ANY way in an investigation in Thailand. This is not a third world country. If this horrible event had happened in say AU, I cannot imagine the Australian govt saying to UK government "your welcome to give us a hand...."

You're wrong, many countries help each other. Take the Maddie McCann case for example

[AGareth2]

I don't think this is going to happen

mistake on translation

[up-country_sinclair]

I strongly suspect that once the PM arrives back on Thail soil he will be issuing a "clarification" to his recent comments to Cameron.

[thesetat2013]

This must mean that the PM believes that the Burmese guys are guilty and they the Thai police have done a competent investigation otherwise there is no way he could he silly enough to let the UK come and do their own investigation, unless he thinks the UK are too stupid to find out the truth or that the case has been so corrupted that the UK cannot get to the truth i.e. If the original DNA from the victims has been replaced

True. It could be the other way round though, he could be using the UK cops to throw dirst at his own cops and then use that as an excuse to sack the cops that were involved then say he was lied to

There is only "some" justification to your assessment. Only in that the RTP wants to become an independent police force unanswerable to the Thai gov as stated a few months ago.

But i do no think this is the reason simply because the corruption is throughout the police farce and an action like this would undermine the gov ability to maintain a semi-sense of order in the Kingdom

[elektrified]

I am not sure but have the bodies been sent back to UK or are they still in Thailand.

The UK police/authorities need to do a full post mort on the bodies and get some new DNA samples unless the Thai police have had the victims cleaned.

The also need to take there own translator.

I can see the UK police will have their hands tied, with firm instructions from the UK government to not upset the Thai Police.

I personally think this will be a waste of time, they will not have freedom to do their own thing.

Wow you are behind on the news!

[Baerboxer]

Good at sniffing out porkie pies is the plod.

Indeed they are. And very good, usually, at digging out all the detail and evidence. It's the detail that often catches the criminals.

The British police won't normally allow the media or social media to influence them. They won't come with pre-decided opinions of guilt and innocence based on the wild speculations on social media sites, hearsay, and contradictory press reports allegedly based on "police sources".

I would imagine the chubby footballer with the shark tooth ring, photographed close to Hannah in a group photo on the night might be a witness they'd like to question. Along with some people on the island or those who have since moved to other parts of Thailand. The independent DNA tests will provide an answer on the 2 current suspects. Hopefully they have their own DNA samples from the victim, can confirm if there was a third sample as a Thai forensics person said on TV, and can take samples from the suspects themselves.

I'm sure the team sent will be selected very carefully.

[Traveller45]

Mind you..... There is still this difference of opinion between Prayuth and Somyat, because The Nation is spinning the opposite story.

Foreign investigators barred from Thailand: police chief

"No matter what laws are taken into account, be it Britain's laws or those of other countries, foreign investigators cannot take part in cases that take place in Thailand as this would violate the Kingdom's sovereignty," the police chief insisted.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--30245741.html

So Prayuth is saying Yes, and his mate is saying no..... Are they still connected on LINE or what?

Unless Prayuth has been stupidly trusting Somyat all this time and the latter obviously knowing a bit more of what is actually going on.

The King can allow this. Prayuth will not have offered this without having talked to him first. What would be more difficult is for final trial of this case occur elsewhere. That, yes, would be an encroachment to sovereignty, but not the assistance

[kkup]

I don't really care what authority the British have, they don't really need much to find out the truth, they can get access to what they need, then release the results. At least everyone will have the answers. What Thailand choose to do with the facts afterwards is up to them.