UK cops 'to only observe'

[JoeLing]

I said it in the other topic wait and see.. all the English were patting themselves on the chest while i said wait and see its not going to happen.

Guess i was right they were blinded by patriotism and forgot how it worked in Thailand, plus like others have said no country in the world wold let other countries do law enforcement on their turf. Observers no more. That is it.

So what did the Australian police do in the Ukraine or Bali?

What is the British Police doing in Brasil, Georgia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, ......

What is the American DEA and FBI doing in Asia or South America?

Yeah, some are just observers, some just for PR and others, do investigate.

Best example of foreign police catching culprits is probably:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/how-the-afp-trapped-the-bali-nine/story-e6frg6z6-1225910600831?nk=0c1b4fc5b8717aa13d7268a97eeba1ed

Edited October 19, 2014 by JoeLing

[bannork]

Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry.

So you're saying Suthep is no longer a monk at Suan Mok?

[bannork]

Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry.

So you're saying Suthep is no longer a monk at Suan Mok?

[sustento]

I said it in the other topic wait and see.. all the English were patting themselves on the chest while i said wait and see its not going to happen.

Guess i was right they were blinded by patriotism and forgot how it worked in Thailand, plus like others have said no country in the world wold let other countries do law enforcement on their turf. Observers no more. That is it.

So what did the Australian police do in the Ukraine or Bali?

What is the British Police doing in Brasil, Georgia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, ......

What is the American DEA and FBI doing in Asia or South America?

Yeah, some are just observers, some just for PR and others, do investigate.

Best example of foreign police catching culprits is probably:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/how-the-afp-trapped-the-bali-nine/story-e6frg6z6-1225910600831?nk=0c1b4fc5b8717aa13d7268a97eeba1ed

Rush was arrested by Indonesian police in Indonesia. That's because they have jurisdiction there. The Australian police tipped them off. They didn't have anything to do with the arrest and subsequent charge.

[Thai at Heart]

I think with the 100,000 signatures on a petition in England, Cameron actually INVOLVED and the REQUEST for the English police to be involved...hmmm... I do not think this one is going to be brushed aside so fast even with THAINESS and a smile.

Same number of people signed a petition in the US to Obama to have Justin Bieber deported.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/deport-justin-bieber_n_5176202.html

So what point are you trying to make.

Apart from the fact that there is something like FIVE times the population in USA in comparison to UK, 100,000 signatures is the magic figure to at least get heard in Parliament.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had it not been for these 100,000 signatures and the social media reporting on this case, then Cameron would have been under zero pressure to do anything. As it is, his hand has been forced. So you can say what you want, but the petition DID make a difference.

Well that is largely by the by. There have been thousands of cases that don't get the publicity they deserve.

Social media has changed this for ALL cases in the modern day

[Artisi]

Agree 100%. This whole case evolves around the DNA evidence, as far as I can see the other evidence is mostly circumstantial. Although the British police are describes as 'observers' that does not mean they don't have the right to report the validity or non-validity of evidence presented. I would hope if they are unhappy with the DNA evidence, they will request independent tests be done. If the RTP refuse, then this will surely show the world the 'real' Thailand. DNA is the key and all that really matters in this case.

DNA, DNA, DNA. Everyone is obsessed with DNA. As someone else has repeatedly pointed out on TV, the DNA evidence only links a suspect(s) to rape and not to murder. There has been no explanation of motive (and don't give that horses--t about "arousal")and no conclusive links to a murder weapon(s).

Good to see the comment " the DNA evidence only links a suspect(s) to rape and not to murder." I proposed this much earlier on and still believe that the "possible" rape (if the current suspects are guilty) and the murder are very likely to be 2 separate incidences - how ever they are being treated as one to simplify and solve some major logistic problems.

[JLCrab]

They can do their own accurate DNA tests without even coming to Thailand, I don't understand why they haven't. Maybe they have and are not saying or maybe they haven't thought about this yet. The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. They could easily get the DNA of the accused from family. This only has to be so much as a hair from a hair brush or a toothbrush they have used. Why is nobody doing this?

Who has said that it isn't / hasn't been done? As I have said previously, the Bill don't run around mouthing off all day what has or hasn't been or being done. No need for 1/2 hour contradictory press releases reported from the lowest level BIB through to the top.

The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. If the body was embalmed before repatriation to UK there is most likely no DNA to be found on body except that of the victim herself.

UK FCO -- Information Relating to Deaths in Thailand

A local civil registry death certificate, a certificate of embalming, and a certificate permitting transfer of the remains to the UK is required to repatriate the deceased.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284901/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_Jan_2014_-_lastest_edition.pdf

Edited October 19, 2014 by JLCrab

[keemapoot]

They can do their own accurate DNA tests without even coming to Thailand, I don't understand why they haven't. Maybe they have and are not saying or maybe they haven't thought about this yet. The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. They could easily get the DNA of the accused from family. This only has to be so much as a hair from a hair brush or a toothbrush they have used. Why is nobody doing this?

Who has said that it isn't / hasn't been done? As I have said previously, the Bill don't run around mouthing off all day what has or hasn't been or being done. No need for 1/2 hour contradictory press releases reported from the lowest level BIB through to the top.

The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. If the body was embalmed before repatriation to UK there is most likely no DNA to be found on body except that of the victim herself.

I'm not an expert on coroner practices, but I would think it would be highly suspicious if Thai authorities had embalmed the body without the approval of the family or British authorities, especially in light of the fact that embalming is rarely done in Thailand due to Buddhist practices. And, that clearly preserving DNA would be a priority in a high profile murder case as this.... Highly suspicious.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge or experience in these matters can contradict this.

Edited October 19, 2014 by keemapoot

[kaobang]

"Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry".

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

[mrtoad]

Boycott the cesspool

[JLCrab]

Regarding embalming and repatriation of remains I have only said 'if' however, the UK Embassy Bangkok website makes no mention of exception to embalming prior to repatriation if death occurred under suspicious or criminal circumstances. All reports that I have seen have said that there are only limited ways to identify a body via DNA after embalming.

IATA rules state that a body must be embalmed prior to International transport so if the body was repatriated without being embalmed, it would have required private or government transportation. There has been no such mention in any reports that I have seen.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2007/nov/28/expat-finance-health

[thailandchilli]

"Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry".

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

[kaobang]

"Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry".

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

makes me puke.who knows what all the thais who donated him money are thinking now

[phuketandsee]

"Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry".

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

[Alwyn]

So the British police have been invited to observe the investigation? Bit late for that I would think, no crime scene any more, torture already done & dusted, police tampering with evidence (which they actually admitted to but nothing seems to have seen to be wrong with that), police finished trying coerce taxi drivers into providing witness done & dusted. What, exactly is there left to observe?

[docshock13]

Are you saying the monk in the pic with Shark tooth is Phra Suthep?

[thailandchilli]

"Suthep the ex deputy prime minister and inspirational leader of the Yellow shirts and BIG boss in Surat Thani is now on KT as a monk. He was pictured with one of the main suspects on Thursday. So I fear this is not going to change when you see the big boss showing his patronage to the suspects and his business and land dealings with these people on KT. I am sorry Thailand is rotten to the core and the sound of ' Money No.1' is ringing over this despicable double murder. Not optimistic at all now sorry".

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

Source was from

blowin post 293

[8OA8]

An old one, but still worth remembering.

It was one of the most notorious miscarriages of justice in British legal history. Three Belfast men and an English woman spent 15 years in prison after police fabricated confessions for the IRA bombing of the Horse and Groom pub in Guildford in 1974.

Advertisement

But even after their convictions were quashed in 1989, Gerry Conlon, Paul Hill, Paddy Armstrong and Carole Richardson, had spoken of the clinging stigma and the black hole of post-traumatic stress. Some felt there was a whispering campaign in the corridors of power that they had been freed on a technicality and a "cloud of suspicion" remained.

[phuketandsee]

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

Source was from

blowin post 293

I meant what is the original source?

[thailandchilli]

An old one, but still worth remembering.

It was one of the most notorious miscarriages of justice in British legal history. Three Belfast men and an English woman spent 15 years in prison after police fabricated confessions for the IRA bombing of the Horse and Groom pub in Guildford in 1974.

Advertisement

But even after their convictions were quashed in 1989, Gerry Conlon, Paul Hill, Paddy Armstrong and Carole Richardson, had spoken of the clinging stigma and the black hole of post-traumatic stress. Some felt there was a whispering campaign in the corridors of power that they had been freed on a technicality and a "cloud of suspicion" remained.

mmmmm whats an incident 40 years ago in the UK got to do with the murders of Hannah and David....................perhaps insinuating that the UK police has been responsible for miscarriages of justice perhaps? I'm sure they have and I'm sure you can evidence many more, but the fact is they are one of the most professional organizations in the world and I for one am proud of them and hope they are able to help, even if it is just to expose the cover up officially.

[allan michaud]

To those who yesterday were saying this is great news and the Thai's have regained their 'face'. It seems pretty clear they have no intention of cooperating fully. Just more lies to save face at home.

[thailandchilli]

Wow, you sure about this? Unbelievable. Or not I guess

can you post the pic or give a link?

Source? And can we be sure it's not photoshopped?

Source was from

blowin post 293

I meant what is the original source?

Yes I know you meant that but I don't know, I got it from post 293, come on do you need spoon feeding

[robblok]

I said it in the other topic wait and see.. all the English were patting themselves on the chest while i said wait and see its not going to happen.

Guess i was right they were blinded by patriotism and forgot how it worked in Thailand, plus like others have said no country in the world wold let other countries do law enforcement on their turf. Observers no more. That is it.

So what did the Australian police do in the Ukraine or Bali?

What is the British Police doing in Brasil, Georgia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, ......

What is the American DEA and FBI doing in Asia or South America?

Yeah, some are just observers, some just for PR and others, do investigate.

Best example of foreign police catching culprits is probably:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/how-the-afp-trapped-the-bali-nine/story-e6frg6z6-1225910600831?nk=0c1b4fc5b8717aa13d7268a97eeba1ed

Yes but we are talking Thailand here where the head cop does not want to have them. Do you really think they can do anything as observer.. you guys are delusional thinking it will mean a thing.

The Brits just don't have the power they used too and they don't want to make a row about it.

Remember the blue diamond ? Far more pressure was applied from the Saudies.. and nothing ever happened. The Brits aren't applying a fraction of that pressure and you expect something to happen.

Maybe other nationalities look at this without the patriotism and wishful thinking the Brits on here do.

I have absolutely no faith here.. but If im proven wrong ill eat humble pie.

[draftvader]

Who has said that it isn't / hasn't been done? As I have said previously, the Bill don't run around mouthing off all day what has or hasn't been or being done. No need for 1/2 hour contradictory press releases reported from the lowest level BIB through to the top.

The UK have the bodies and the DNA inside of Hannah. If the body was embalmed before repatriation to UK there is most likely no DNA to be found on body except that of the victim herself.

I'm not an expert on coroner practices, but I would think it would be highly suspicious if Thai authorities had embalmed the body without the approval of the family or British authorities, especially in light of the fact that embalming is rarely done in Thailand due to Buddhist practices. And, that clearly preserving DNA would be a priority in a high profile murder case as this.... Highly suspicious.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge or experience in these matters can contradict this.

Unfortunately I can confirm that they can, and do, embalm here. In July a good friend sadly died of a heart-attack. His body was embalmed and chilled until his brother could come and confirm what he wanted to happen with the body.

However sense would say that, in a case like this, the body would be offered "as is" to the home country. With my friend there was no suspicious circumstances (apart from the police failing to notify the embassy....not suspicious but very poor show indeed!).

[CapGary]

With nothing to hide, the RTP could lean back and let the Brits do their own investigation, couldn't they ??

That would put an end to all speculations and would help to restore the RTP's face as well.

But by preventing a transparent investgation, with all the background of corruption, no one in or outside the kingdom will feel that justice has been served.

Really ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798182/at-2-000-corrupt-police-officers-suspected-tipping-criminals-stealing-fabricating-evidence-using-power-money-sex-says-home-office-report.html (perhaps blocked in Thailand)

Corruption is everywhere around us, including the UK police !!!

'Report estimates that up to one per cent of officers are 'potentially corrupt''

I'd say that was something to aspire to......RTP probably has slightly higher stats? as do probably most other countries. Let's try and get things into prospective huh?

[draftvader]

On the subject of embalming bodies the UK police has a policy stated here under "Civil Contingencies" (not exactly what we're discussing but it shows that there can be a policy).

http://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/civil-contingencies/disaster-victim-identification/post-mortem-procedures/#embalming

Embalming is not permitted until written authority is received from the family of the victim or their representative. A third party or private sector representative may embalm and coffin the deceased only when authorised to do so by the coroner or procurator fiscal (on receipt of the written authority). See cultural considerations for more detail.

[laobali]

What depends on what?

Sorry if it didn't make sense. I meant, assuming they would need the services of interpreters/translators, the outcome could depend on who and how 'independent' these people were; I'd be happier if they were Thai speakers based outside Thailand and unaffected by nationality issues, that's all.

Sounds like you think the British Police are pretty thick and really don't know how to do anything constructive other than say "ello ello, nice day in'it "

Not at all. Just don't trust Thai authorities. Wonder why.

[Thai at Heart]

Don't they realise its rude to speak on behalf of others?

It has to be the lowest form of international diplomacy to talk in the way that he has. Could you imagine the outcry if someonw dared to divulge details of what a Thai dignatry said in this manner.

These people are complete numpties sometimes.

[laobali]

^ More than sometimes. With his complete lack of international/diplomatic experience I'm surprised they even let him go to Milan.

[jdinasia]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

That has never been in dispute. However, there is a substantial difference between "observing" and being given access to the RTP investigation and being supplied with answers. There are many instances whereby a foreign police service has worked in co-operation and assistance with the host police e.g. (UK) McCann in Spain, (AUS) Indonesian atrocities in East Timor, etc etc.

Should a Thai national suffer a similar fate in the UK one can be assured that the British police would have solved the case by now, supplied the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) with a brief of evidence and NOT be hasty to carry out a trial by media as is the case in Thailand. It is aso worth noting that in most western countries the Forensic Services are independent of the police.

Do you mean the trial by social media that is happening here and in the UK?