UK cops 'to only observe'

[Sviss Geez]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

I don't believe anyone is asking for Thailand to surrender legal authority to anyone. Perhaps I missed something?

You sure did miss something. Almost every poster here and in other media wants exactly that and in their delusion they think they will get it.

[laobali]

I can't decide if this a face saving article, or a u turning article............. Time will tell I guess.

Face wins every time. It will be Thailand's downfall.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

When a government gives another police force the authority to investigate a crime they can do so outside their area of jurisdiction. An example of this is the little British girl that disappeared in Portugal. Another would be the DEA in Mexico and there is many more.

If the Thai police have nothing to hide why are they so jittery about other people checking if they have the correct people behind bars. If the Thai government back down now they will come under more international pressure and they will lose plenty of face. The real reason for the backtracking after promises was made by the junta leader is the the pressure the nationalists are putting on him. Yesterday on one page in the Bangkok post you had a story about the PM saying they will investigate and just down the page the National Commisioner of police saying the opposite. It doesn't matter what they do they already have lost the trust and support of the majority of Thai's. If they don't allow the British investigation they will be viewed as covering up and if they allow the investigation the truth will come out.

And Thailand has worked with outside agencies too including regularly with the FBI within Thailand while in other cases such as David Carradine, the FBI only observed since they didn't need their assistance just as they didn't need any outside assistance, with the possible exception of Singapore, to solve this case promptly or to collect enough evidence to present to prosecution.

If Mexico could solve their own drug problem they wouldn't allow the DEA there and if Portugal could have got to the bottom of the little girl's disappearance on their own they would not have asked for UK assistance.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[razer]

Thai cooperation with foreign governments in an effort to "legitimize" Thailand is essential, especially with ASEAN coming of age. The junta will get support and respect from other countries in their efforts to stamp out corruption, people trafficking and drug trafficking. Yes, Thailand is the hub I think.

[Sviss Geez]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

Hold on a minute. I don't know how the British system works, but American law and court processes are based on English Law.

If they are the same, the Thais could bypass the UK government and go straight to the defense attorney who's allowed to use any experts he chooses. If they happened to be Thai, he could use them. They don't need to have "jurisdiction," they can be welcomed by the defense.

In Thailand I see a lack of not only transparency, but a lack of a proper defense. Where is the defense attorney and how much access does he have to all of the so-called evidence, and what opportunity does he have to call his own choice of expert witnesses to verify the evidence including getting their own DNA samples?

We certainly don't have apples and apples here. We have a lack of a proper judicial system and the ability to railroad people without being challenged.

I think you may find that American and British law and processes do not apply in Thailand.

[laobali]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

Have you never heard of translators/interpreters?

Depends which side they are loyal to and who picks them.

[Mosha]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

They wouldn't be able to get a visa for the Burmese suspect to re-enact the crime.

[WorldTravellerMUC]

Surely as always, there are 2 sides to this topic. A few (very few, both local and internationally) are happy with the investigation the "sound" evidences and everyting surrounding the case. Then there are MANY that are not, these are the facts also resulting a British officials summoning Thai representatives, more than 100,000 signatures in an on-line petition; (...).

Anyhow as with any doubt in any scenario be it privately, in business or public is it not logic that you show the doubting opponent that he is wrong? Even more if it is very easy?

Easy in this case means: Have the DNA-Match of the suscpects independently verified!

Not hard at all - right?

To me the categoric refusal to do so tells a lot!

I hope the lawyer the suspects is strong and connected enough to dare to make this request! However my hope goes to the Social Media and the British observers to get this finally done.

So keep posting and let's spread the word wherever possible!

[Sviss Geez]

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

I think you'll find every informed traveler and country embassy advices citizens to leave their "we our more special" attitudes at home when visiting another country as they have absolutely no jurisdiction into criminal matters within other countries or much of anything else. Once you leave your own country you are bound by the laws and procedures of that country and highly doubtful your embassy will even provide an attorney without your paying ... they will however hold your hand for comfort from time to time but that is about it.

You are right about some aspects of diplomatic services. I have experience of an American who was arrested in Hong Kong and the consular officer who visited him handed over a list, in alphabetic order and without giving any recommendation, of lawyers he could contact but at his own expense. The only other assistance would be to inform relatives in the US if he wanted.

Unfortunately so many travellers, especially the less experienced, are very naive and don't consider things can be so different to where they come from.

There are also misconceptions as to what their embassy / consulate etc can do for them and usually expect more than they are likely to get.

Finally, how many tourists check the FCO website for info on their intended destination and without thinking rely on their travel agent who may not be too responsible.

Possibly the only effective way to reach people would be through television news broadcasts but still there's the ' won't affect me ' mentality.

Oh has that <deleted> thing crawled out from under his rock again.

It would appear that you have.

[KIWIBATCH]

From the original news article "...He (Gen Prayuth) said he did not think the police would dare do such a thing in a high-profile case like this...". (refers to using scapegoats in the KT murders)

Further meaning?....(a) in low profile cases we (the RTP) do fit people up for crimes committed...???....and/or......the KT murders started off low profile..so we got ourselves two Burmese lads as scapegoats...but now that it has turned high profile.....we are stuck with the two scapegoats and don't know quite how to extract ourselves out of the shit

[kaobang]

again if Thailand Junta has the will....UK police will not only observe..but also investigate and collect some evidence

same as the australian police in Bali,Indonesia

[heyexile]

A few points are out of place:

1. Now he speaks for Cameron. What he says and what the UK press is saying are like, 1000 km apart.

2. Bobbies are here to only observe. UK police are never happy to only observe. They are prolific in their hunting and gathering. They will go nuts just observing.

3. Thai police follow the law. No scapegoats. I seriously doubt that. Not their modus operandi to NOT have scapegoats.

To believe these two are 'scapegoats' one would have to believe that a family in Koh Tao has the political power to corrupt the top most positions of power in Thailand, hundreds of miles away in Bangkok. Is Thailand in such shape as to allow a family in Koh Tao to tell the most powerful men in Thailand which way the wind is blowing ?

Ah but they do (allegedly) have "the political power" and allegedly defenders in the highest places who owe them favours I and others have posted details of the family, business and political connections starting with WT on KT all the way to the venerable S. Further and beyond.

[SupermarineS6B]

the brits waited to long, should of jumped in sooner before the coup govermt could close ranks with rtp. brit & anglo euro expats here have a very short memory.... i will refresh you, thailand is no longer democratic. all the rules change when the elected govermt is thuged out of power. the past elected leaders were just as bad but had the vote. now thailand has joined the ranks of cuba and a flock of banana coup "republics". bottom line. .... you are not that important to thailand. in fact you could be replaced , and some say it is already started to happen.....oop's, sry tend to ramble

Dead right, they've had the good days, got enough money, now they're inviting their little asian brothers in with free visas........ trouble is, they don't spend the money like the farangs used to............Next please !

[Sviss Geez]

No matter what is said, they will hear what they want. And what they want is anything they can use or twist to help them handle their feelings of inferiority in Thailand by putting on a false sense of superiority towards in Thailand with more money and power than them actually pretty much anyone in Thailand down to the much more financially challenged Thai who as an example get to pay a couple dollars less to go to places like their own State Parks.

What seems clear in many of these folks posts is that they are not motivated by a desire to see justice for the victims but rather to display and promote an anger towards Thailand and a desire to see Thailand suffer.

It is as a clear cut case they got the right people in this case as it was for the train rapist murderer of the young girl .... initially suspects wrong, over looked the right person, conflicting stories in the press, confession, DNA match, friend's testimony and so on. But didn't see anyone then suggesting sending money to the suspect as I have seen with this case. They don't want to see justice, they want to see Thailand be proved wrong to help themselves feel good.

B$L%S41T. You are out of touch with reality. This is not about Thailand being wrong this is about a cover up of the real killers.

To use your own words..."B$L%S41T. You are out of touch with reality."

"...this is about a cover up of the real killers"

Yet to be proven speculation, surely?

[wackybacky]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

Your post is completely non relevant in the situation.

1. It is not a point of 'jurisdiction' If a request is made and then accepted for UK police to come over to Thailand to oversee anything at any level. So no need to try to say the UK police have no rights as if they already jumped on a plane 3 weeks ago and are forcing their way into the investigation.... They haven't so please stop stamping down your infantile foot and screaming NO JURISDICTION!!!!! They have asked politely. They DO have rights to be concerned and insist on some sort of cooperation whether you like it or not.... The victims were BRITISH.

2. Although I can not find a single incident of a Thai national being murdered in the UK, then the Thai authorities requesting to send police, I could not imagine they would be denied. Because for one... The UK police wouldn't be covering anything up, accepting bribes to protect the rich mafia families or fitting up say 2 French kids to boot. I don't think there would be any problem, but there would probably not even be a request made because the Thai authorities know there is already a mechanism in place that is far superior to anything RTP could produce.

3. You went miles too far by saying 'surrender ALL legal authority..... That statement is just so OUT OF ORDER.... Since when has anyone demanded Thailand to surrender ALL legal authority to the British police?????? Man...... you are so anti-British it stinks a mile away.

How anyone can write 2 lines and come up with so much garbage is beyond me.

It's like you don't want these murders solved because of your own basic racism against British.

I just had to put EVERYONE who liked your post onto my ignore list....... Because anyone thinking your post was good, I really don't need to read any dribble from them.

Edited October 19, 2014 by wackybacky

[CMCMANGOMAN]

Does anyone here know if the general has a formal education?

Because most foreigners here with personal interaction and experience with so called educated Thais know that is just not the case. The Thai higher learning institutions are mostly substandard and lacking any real world credibility.

That said, it appears our dear general may never have had a formal education outside the sorry excuse for the Thai military. And of he did attend university here on Thailand then it explains a lot.

Has anyone ever seen his cv?

Questions...questions.

Edited October 19, 2014 by CMCMANGOMAN

[Sviss Geez]

No matter what is said, they will hear what they want. And what they want is anything they can use or twist to help them handle their feelings of inferiority in Thailand by putting on a false sense of superiority towards in Thailand with more money and power than them actually pretty much anyone in Thailand down to the much more financially challenged Thai who as an example get to pay a couple dollars less to go to places like their own State Parks.

What seems clear in many of these folks posts is that they are not motivated by a desire to see justice for the victims but rather to display and promote an anger towards Thailand and a desire to see Thailand suffer.

It is as a clear cut case they got the right people in this case as it was for the train rapist murderer of the young girl .... initially suspects wrong, over looked the right person, conflicting stories in the press, confession, DNA match, friend's testimony and so on. But didn't see anyone then suggesting sending money to the suspect as I have seen with this case. They don't want to see justice, they want to see Thailand be proved wrong to help themselves feel good.

Please, take a couple of Imodium.

You need to check what Imodium is used for.

[BwindiBoy]

I hope someone raises this issue on Question Tome (the tv programme, not Prime Ministers question time) this week. Public awareness would be even greater and UK Government representatives would have to tell the truth...the UK truth, not the Thai truth!

Time! (my mobile won't let me edit and correct this any other way)!

Edited October 19, 2014 by BwindiBoy

[epicstuff]

*Edited*

What he should be doing is shirt fronting him in front of the world by upping travel warnings to Thailand and forcing insurance premiums up so people won't travel there until the British people get satisfactory answers and assurances that the investigation is above board and free of interference .

Except the British government dont want trade or diplomatic relations rocked with Thailand.. Dealing with Thailand is probably like dealing with an over sensitive girlfriend ( walking on egg shells not to let them lose face) and probably just want to reassure the british public that they are looking after the interests of it citizens, but deep down just wish this fiasco would just go away.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the UK police sit in the BIB canteen over here. for a couple of weeks Then just confirm everything looks ok Just to keep the status quo. When have governments really been that concerned over the well being or rights of one or 2 individuals. They are happy to sacrifice a few people here and there for "the greater good" unless they have strong connections with powerful families; just like here.... There is little difference in politics and power any where in this world . Its just some places like here are just more blatant and just use intimidation tactics or the inability of the public to question authority, to do what they want, rather than being clever to cover their tracks..

[Sviss Geez]

Prayut said Cameron told him that he saw nothing wrong with the Thai justice system, but that many Britons had suspicions about the police investigation.

Isn't that whats called a 'contradiction'

Depends what you mean by a "contradiction" (in inverted commas), if you mean, simply, a contradiction then clearly it is not, it's called two differing views.

[poweratradio]

Cameron could save the British taxpayer a lot of money if he gets rid of the staff in his press office as they are not needed, he's got the Thai PM to speak for him.

This arrogance and breach of diplomatic protocol really needs to be shot down. I know Thais don't care what foreigners think about them and adverse comments would not be published here but there's always more than one way.

The Thai government needs to be called on their unauthorised comments in no uncertain manner and, for example, a travel advisory which goes beyond the usual notice of martial law etc but actually warns travellers their diplomatic representatives may not be able to help them because of restrictions and so on from the ' host ' government.

This would be passed on to the EU and picked up by other countries who may just follow suit. Nothing will scare LoS more than the loss of tourist revenue.

There are so many countries that would not play this game that your thoughts are like water running over the bow of my jet ski

[joebrown]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

When a government gives another police force the authority to investigate a crime they can do so outside their area of jurisdiction. An example of this is the little British girl that disappeared in Portugal. Another would be the DEA in Mexico and there is many more.

If the Thai police have nothing to hide why are they so jittery about other people checking if they have the correct people behind bars. If the Thai government back down now they will come under more international pressure and they will lose plenty of face. The real reason for the backtracking after promises was made by the junta leader is the the pressure the nationalists are putting on him. Yesterday on one page in the Bangkok post you had a story about the PM saying they will investigate and just down the page the National Commisioner of police saying the opposite. It doesn't matter what they do they already have lost the trust and support of the majority of Thai's. If they don't allow the British investigation they will be viewed as covering up and if they allow the investigation the truth will come out.

And Thailand has worked with outside agencies too including regularly with the FBI within Thailand while in other cases such as David Carradine, the FBI only observed since they didn't need their assistance just as they didn't need any outside assistance, with the possible exception of Singapore, to solve this case promptly or to collect enough evidence to present to prosecution.

If Mexico could solve their own drug problem they wouldn't allow the DEA there and if Portugal could have got to the bottom of the little girl's disappearance on their own they would not have asked for UK assistance.

Why not for 1 minute forget about all the other problems in the world and concentrate on the issue at hand here in Thailand. You have posted earlier that you feel that many people who post are only interested in 'Thai bashing' or try to prove Thailand wrong.

IMHO I think ' you can't see the wood for the trees'. If you think that all those posters are 'Thai bashing' then I think you JTJ are suffering from the Thai malady of xenophobia, for reasons best known to you alone. These threads aren't about 'Thai bashing', they are about people wanting to see JUSTICE prevail and that FACE and/or MONEY does not prevent this from being seen to be done.

[Pundi6446]

If the UK really wanted to get nasty, they could tell Thailand that they will be Blacklisted for any tourist travel, that's big money, but lets see if they have the BALLS to do it.

[Sviss Geez]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

That has never been in dispute. However, there is a substantial difference between "observing" and being given access to the RTP investigation and being supplied with answers. There are many instances whereby a foreign police service has worked in co-operation and assistance with the host police e.g. (UK) McCann in Spain, (AUS) Indonesian atrocities in East Timor, etc etc.

Should a Thai national suffer a similar fate in the UK one can be assured that the British police would have solved the case by now, supplied the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) with a brief of evidence and NOT be hasty to carry out a trial by media as is the case in Thailand. It is aso worth noting that in most western countries the Forensic Services are independent of the police.

"Should a Thai national suffer a similar fate in the UK one can be assured that the British police would have solved the case by now..."

How can one be so sure of that? Do the British police have a guideline timescale in which they have to solve every investigation and do they solve every case? One might think so but I don't.

[MaxLee]

One of these days, our ruling PM will just silence the entire network,...

..., wanna bet???

[Sviss Geez]

Are the english cops able to speak and read Thai?

A 7000 page file in Thai and translated into English.

I wonder !

7000 pages? I wonder where you got that from? The translators the police use will have no difficulty translating from one language to another, that is what translators have trained to do.

[Oscar2]

With the language differences it will be tough for the Britcops to get to the truth....unless of course the Britcops picked to come speak and read Thai!

the British police will have fluent Thai and Burmese detectives or assistants with them. they are world-class police. they would not neglect this,

and for all the people doubting, the British police are already here, just like the police from other countries are here. they are always here observing the criminals from their own countries, looking for fraudsters, pedos, drug dealers and so forth committing International crimes. i wouldn't be surprised if one of them is already sitting at cafes, etc. waiting for Nomsod to leave a cigarette butt, or snag his drinking glass, etc. and collect some DNA. the British, Americans, Aussies, Germans, Dutch, Russians, etc. all have field ops in places in the world (like Thailand) where illegal activities occur. they keep a very low profile. there was an article one time about 2 or 3 years ago on how many American DEA agents, specialists in nabbing pedophiles, etc. are stationed in Chiang Mai alone...

as to the jurisdiction....well as others said, this is Thailand. but the British police can expose a cover up.

The world according to Hollywood. Total reality............. not.

wow you are ignorant and in denial. it didn't go unnoticed that JTJ gave you a "like". birds of a feather....

[poweratradio]

What an eye opener they're in for. 555

I think everyone is in for a very rude awakening on this site. I can't believe how all these armchair detectives have figured out the whole case when they know absolutely zero facts.

I have read posts where posters have seen the gruesome photos and determined the young migrants are to small to do this terrible body mutilations. I say, How So? Sucker clubbed game over.

I read how the armchair critics have figured its a cover up and a frame up. Where did that dream come from?? Pure speculation! Does anyone really know any of the facts that the RTP or the coroner has? I think not!

The previous posted news story here with the media reporting what some say may be misconstrued facts when on and on for 30 pages of posts one after the other surmising, guessing, speculating. fantasizing and downright dreaming up false facts.

Now here we go again doing it all over again here on this new news release and now I must wonder about this 100,000 name petition. How did that many people get inflamed??? Could it have been the back and forth media reports and the police media releases? Could it be us here speculating with people back in the UK?

Whatever it may be fellow posters, let us let the chips fall where they may, let the hands be dealt and if we do not like the winning hand, we can call foul at that time.

[Sviss Geez]

Doesnt answer my question.

Either you are too thick to get it, else you are purposefully posting cr@p in order to derail the thread. Probably a bit of both.

The point is the British Police will now arrive and 'observe'.

Better that than just allow the Thai police to get this case to court without any transparency.

It may make no difference, but at least the screw is being turned and I believe that there will be an awful lot of people on Koh Tao who are literally sh!tting bricks at the minute.

"...an awful lot of people on Koh Tao who are literally sh!tting bricks..."

Literally? Wow, are you sure? Wouldn't they have had to, literally, eaten bricks first?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sviss Geez

[Sviss Geez]

The only place that British police have jurisdiction is in Britain. They have no legal authority at all in Thailand.

Imagine the hoo haa if a Thai was murdered in the UK and the Thai government expected expected the UK to surrender all legal authority to a couple of visiting members of the RTP.

But you're wrong, if a foreign national is murdered in the UK the police from that persons country would be welcomed by the British police to help. Just as when a UK national is murdered in the USA then UK police attend and help in the investigation in the USA.

Only if a country has something to hide, or too much pride do they decline help from another police force. Especially one that does things slightly more ethical.

"But you're wrong,"

No he's not.