Foundation offers Bt60 million to help make Thailand's roads safer

[wilcopops]

Charity money is to help impoverished people! Not make roads safer. There are enough of them in Thailand.

You want to make the roads safer?

1. Make the driving test rigorous.

2 special tests for bus drivers( I can't believe half of them even have a licence at all)

3 get the police on the streets to enforce driving laws

4 as 3

5 as 3

Etc!

"Charity money is to help impoverished people!" - rather a limited definition don't you think?

The money is only part of the deal....what they are REALLY offering is expertise - if the Thai govt accepts the deal they have about 14000 lives per year that could be saved - over a few more years, even with a partial reduction that is a lot of people.

Edited October 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

"Thailand came in at No 3 in world rankings last year in terms of the highest number of road deaths."

It would be a lot cheaper and more effective if they instituted proper driving ordinances and enforced them.

They make it sound as though the roads are the cause of the deaths. In reality they are Pseudo-Driver Deaths. The vast majority of these deaths are caused by people who think, since they can afford to buy a motor vehicle, they are qualified to drive one. Most aren't qualified to ride along as a passenger let alone be behind the wheel. How many times do you see passengers holding an infant in their laps while sitting in the front seat or...7 or 8 people riding in the back of a pick up truck? In every western country, both of these situations are illegal and strictly enforced.

If funds were donated to build safer roads, there is a better than even chance that a portion would never make it to the construction phase of the project, and the money that does would be spent on inferior materials.

Again the poster misses the point, concentrating on single issues won't solve the problem. ....and consequently the assessment of what is happening o Thai roads is way off from reality.

personal observation is of course probably the most misleading way of assessing the problem.

[fforest1]

Guys do not worry the speed cameras and bicycle lanes will be here soon enough....

[NoBrainer]

I think that they should spend the money fixing all of the potholes around where I live. That would make the roads safer in our area, then find another 600 Billion to fix the roads in the rest of the country. Oops, I forgot, they spent that money already on some harebrained Government Rice Scheme.

[spidermike007]

I just drove from Prachuap Khiri Khan, to Don Sak yesterday. There were two drivers on the way, that were absolute daredevils. One cut into my lane with about 4 feet of clearance between our cars, while we were going 120KPH. It was entirely unnecessary, as he had an open road to work with. I had to jam on my brakes to avoid slamming into this fool. He was just was being dumb, ignorant, silly, careless, reckless, and unconscious. The next guy, who was driving a new Mercedes, straddled the car in front of us, for some time, while staying between two lanes. He was driving about 4 feet from the other guys bumper, for an extended period. He moved onto the next car, and exhibited similarly ignorant behavior. And all this was taking place in the rain. We are taught to drive more carefully in the rain. These guys were not, it appears. Guys like this leave absolutely no chance for an emergency, an unexpected event, an animal or motorbike crossing the road, or any unforeseen circumstance. It is no wonder so many die here. And they are putting lives other than their own at risk in the process. Do the authorities care? Judging by the number of law enforcement officials I saw on the way (one) it is quite obvious what the answer to that question is.

Ultimately, it comes down to driver education, and traffic enforcement. I have little information about the former. The latter is completely absent. On the entire journey the only law enforcement official I saw was a policeman at an accident scene, where a vehicle (a new SUV) had gone off the road into the median strip, and flipped over. Other than that, there was nobody. How does the average driver behave himself, if there is no deterrent? There are no consequences for this kind of behavior. So whether or not this foundation donates 2 million dollars, will it help? Will they use that money to purchase a few cars to patrol the most important north south highway in central Thailand?

[NoshowJones]

Go out and get the dangerous drivers, and motorbike riders, you see them everywhere, it's not rocket science, all that would need done is the cost of recruiting and training more policemen, and give them good incentives to get up of their asses, and I don't just mean in Bangkok.

[JOC]

Two young Brits are brutally murdered by (probably) Thai "untouchables", Thai police screw up the investigation big time, Thai government awards Thai police for their exellent cover-up.

And a British foundation gives money to Thailand???

BTW the numbers in the OP are completely wrong. 38.1 deaths per 100.000 x 67 million Thais =25.500 deaths per year

[Thai at Heart]

This is a charity fund from England.

Why do we have to waste money on RUBBISH like this?

I agree.

This is a complete and utter waste of money

[Lupatria]

Am I the only one doubting that much of the money will be spend for the given purpose?

[emilymat]

Two young Brits are brutally murdered by (probably) Thai "untouchables", Thai police screw up the investigation big time, Thai government awards Thai police for their exellent cover-up.

And a British foundation gives money to Thailand???

BTW the numbers in the OP are completely wrong. 38.1 deaths per 100.000 x 67 million Thais =25.500 deaths per year:(

Joc...Am I correct in believing that it is only deaths at the scene that are counted?. If you expire in hospital as a result of a road accident then that is not counted.?

[emilymat]

On a serious note. If I was in charge and had some limited funds, then the first thing I would do is to paint the road markings in brilliant white.

One of the reasons - apart from bikes without lights etc - that I try to avoid driving at night here is the total absence of road markings, such as the central line. (I've had a clean licence for 50 years so I am not 'scared' of night driving)

My worst memory of this was driving through Khon Kaen on the 'alleged' 4 lane stretch. No makings - it was just a wide strip of dark asphalt with cars/bikes buzzing everywhere. Equally, many unlit roads outside cities are just the same - a dark strip.

I do believe, as an example, that a crystal clear indication of the lanes on this stretch, and other roads, would make them 'marginally', if not significantly, safer.

Such a programme would cost a lot less than trying to change the 'attitude' of many (not all) drivers. That will take years and may never succeed.

[Nickymaster]

....and don't dare to blame the family that was in charge of this country for over a decade....

[Thai at Heart]

On a serious note. If I was in charge and had some limited funds, then the first thing I would do is to paint the road markings in brilliant white.

One of the reasons - apart from bikes without lights etc - that I try to avoid driving at night here is the total absence of road markings, such as the central line. (I've had a clean licence for 50 years so I am not 'scared' of night driving)

My worst memory of this was driving through Khon Kaen on the 'alleged' 4 lane stretch. No makings - it was just a wide strip of dark asphalt with cars/bikes buzzing everywhere. Equally, many unlit roads outside cities are just the same - a dark strip.

I do believe, as an example, that a crystal clear indication of the lanes on this stretch, and other roads, would make them 'marginally', if not significantly, safer.

Such a programme would cost a lot less than trying to change the 'attitude' of many (not all) drivers. That will take years and may never succeed.

They still red and white stripes followed by black and white stripes everywhere at enormous cost and trouble every year.

That alone costs billions

[Thai at Heart]

....and don't dare to blame the family that was in charge of this country for over a decade....

70% of driver started before that lot.

U actually want to blame the shinwatras for the crap driving in Thailand. Lordy lord.

[NongKhaiKid]

This is a charity fund from England.

Why do we have to waste money on RUBBISH like this?

Britain gives aid to India to help them help their people yet they can afford space exploration.

NKK - you are right of course.

However, I think you will find India have asked not to be given the money. Whether we have done that I don't know. Crazy eh!

I am more than willing to be corrected on this but as i understand it Britain is scaling back on aid but i can't remember the time frame.

[OPG]

I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh and shake my head after reading this article. Who in there right mind would donate that much money to a corrupt country? First and foremost, the Thai Police requires to be cleaned up, structured and trained properly. You will need to have enough police vehicles on the road showing a presence of authority and when they see something off...speeding or just driving crazy, they must do their job and put that training to use and stop the vehicle and do what the west does...you can give a warning or a citation...depending on the crime. The cameras on the highway must be working and they must send the citation with a picture to your registered address etc... It all starts with the foundation, which are the authorities who will control the system to LICENSED individuals. If they can sort the foundation out, then they have the best chance in minimizing road accidents. But to donate money now...they must be mad! Hell, it would be more secure with me and I will make sure to put it to better use.

[Nickymaster]

....and don't dare to blame the family that was in charge of this country for over a decade....

70% of driver started before that lot.

U actually want to blame the shinwatras for the crap driving in Thailand. Lordy lord.

Lordy lord??

I see. It's not the fault of any government if a country has one of the highest accident rates in the world. Ever heard about law enforcement?

[Don Aleman]

Thailand has plenty of traffic laws but what they need are safer streets. better signage, more light and police who know what these traffic laws are and then, actually leave the station or " Police Box" to stop and arrest people, all people, not just foreigners.

[wilcopops]

....and don't dare to blame the family that was in charge of this country for over a decade....

70% of driver started before that lot.

U actually want to blame the shinwatras for the crap driving in Thailand. Lordy lord.

Lordy lord??

I see. It's not the fault of any government if a country has one of the highest accident rates in the world. Ever heard about law enforcement?

Again you are focusing on a single issue which at best is not productive, but more likely misleading.

[wilcopops]

I just drove from Prachuap Khiri Khan, to Don Sak yesterday. There were two drivers on the way, that were absolute daredevils. One cut into my lane with about 4 feet of clearance between our cars, while we were going 120KPH. It was entirely unnecessary, as he had an open road to work with. I had to jam on my brakes to avoid slamming into this fool. He was just was being dumb, ignorant, silly, careless, reckless, and unconscious. The next guy, who was driving a new Mercedes, straddled the car in front of us, for some time, while staying between two lanes. He was driving about 4 feet from the other guys bumper, for an extended period. He moved onto the next car, and exhibited similarly ignorant behavior. And all this was taking place in the rain. We are taught to drive more carefully in the rain. These guys were not, it appears. Guys like this leave absolutely no chance for an emergency, an unexpected event, an animal or motorbike crossing the road, or any unforeseen circumstance. It is no wonder so many die here. And they are putting lives other than their own at risk in the process. Do the authorities care? Judging by the number of law enforcement officials I saw on the way (one) it is quite obvious what the answer to that question is.

Ultimately, it comes down to driver education, and traffic enforcement. I have little information about the former. The latter is completely absent. On the entire journey the only law enforcement official I saw was a policeman at an accident scene, where a vehicle (a new SUV) had gone off the road into the median strip, and flipped over. Other than that, there was nobody. How does the average driver behave himself, if there is no deterrent? There are no consequences for this kind of behavior. So whether or not this foundation donates 2 million dollars, will it help? Will they use that money to purchase a few cars to patrol the most important north south highway in central Thailand?

I fail to see what recounting personal experiences of what the driver perceives as bad driving can contribute anything to the debate about road safety in Thailand.

i have driven in many countries on various continents and could fill page after page with stories of ludicrous driving - however i don't because I'm aware that it is irrelevant.....I'm also aware that it happens all over the world and so is unlikely to be the root of the problem.

[Nickymaster]

....and don't dare to blame the family that was in charge of this country for over a decade....

70% of driver started before that lot.

U actually want to blame the shinwatras for the crap driving in Thailand. Lordy lord.

Lordy lord??

I see. It's not the fault of any government if a country has one of the highest accident rates in the world. Ever heard about law enforcement?

Again you are focusing on a single issue which at best is not productive, but more likely misleading.

Again you have nothing to add.

So it's not the fault of any government if a country has one of the highest accident rates in the world?

[wilcopops]

there's always someone who wants to argue statistics - or rather wants to show everyone how little they know about statistics. Road stats in particular are NEVER cut and dried - how they are complied and processed, who gathers the initial figures, what interpretation is made, what is classified as a "road death" - or are you including serious injuries as well - or just collisions - hospital, insurance or police reports?.......all this and more affects the figures.....at the end of the day though you CAN draw a conclusion and that is that Thai road safety is NOT GOOD and needs improving.

so how do you think arguing about numbers is going to help that?

[wilcopops]

As for the "money" - surely it is not the amount it is how and where it is spent.

I think all but the least intelligent here will have worked out that the charity isn't going to walk into a government department and leave the money on the counter in cash in a brown paper bag.

the primary object of this exercise is to give advice on road safety. the money may pay for foreign consultants or employing Thai people in the project - I suspect they won't be using a lot of asphalt, but will be re-designing roads in such a way that accident hotspots are cooled a little - unlike accusations - largely racist - that all Thai drivers are crap, this lot intend to try and be heard and achieve something practical.

As why a charity is doing this? We firstly it's not government foreign aid - it's a charity - secondly, road deaths are amongst top ten causes of death on the planet - you wouldn't criticise a charity working to eliminate malaria or ebola would you?

Edited October 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[spidermike007]

I just drove from Prachuap Khiri Khan, to Don Sak yesterday. There were two drivers on the way, that were absolute daredevils. One cut into my lane with about 4 feet of clearance between our cars, while we were going 120KPH. It was entirely unnecessary, as he had an open road to work with. I had to jam on my brakes to avoid slamming into this fool. He was just was being dumb, ignorant, silly, careless, reckless, and unconscious. The next guy, who was driving a new Mercedes, straddled the car in front of us, for some time, while staying between two lanes. He was driving about 4 feet from the other guys bumper, for an extended period. He moved onto the next car, and exhibited similarly ignorant behavior. And all this was taking place in the rain. We are taught to drive more carefully in the rain. These guys were not, it appears. Guys like this leave absolutely no chance for an emergency, an unexpected event, an animal or motorbike crossing the road, or any unforeseen circumstance. It is no wonder so many die here. And they are putting lives other than their own at risk in the process. Do the authorities care? Judging by the number of law enforcement officials I saw on the way (one) it is quite obvious what the answer to that question is.

Ultimately, it comes down to driver education, and traffic enforcement. I have little information about the former. The latter is completely absent. On the entire journey the only law enforcement official I saw was a policeman at an accident scene, where a vehicle (a new SUV) had gone off the road into the median strip, and flipped over. Other than that, there was nobody. How does the average driver behave himself, if there is no deterrent? There are no consequences for this kind of behavior. So whether or not this foundation donates 2 million dollars, will it help? Will they use that money to purchase a few cars to patrol the most important north south highway in central Thailand?

I fail to see what recounting personal experiences of what the driver perceives as bad driving can contribute anything to the debate about road safety in Thailand.

i have driven in many countries on various continents and could fill page after page with stories of ludicrous driving - however i don't because I'm aware that it is irrelevant.....I'm also aware that it happens all over the world and so is unlikely to be the root of the problem.

I could drive from one side of the US, to the other, over a period of days, and I doubt I would see two drivers as reckless as those two guys. That was my point. There is a huge deterrent there. If a highway patrol officer sees you pulling a stunt like that, you are charged with reckless driving. That is a huge fine, points off your license, and the possibility of losing your license. If it costs you alot, you are going to think twice. It would never in a million years occur to these guys to drive safely to avoid a massive fine, since the police are not a threat to their way of life, on any level. That is why this IS relevant.

[masuk]

First off 60M is a lot to us, but a drop in the bucket for the scope of the problem they are trying to address. Take away part of that money after corrupt officials take their cut and the donation reduces even more. Many points in posts above are so true, namely the driving culture and system need a complete overhaul.

In the US you have motorcycles and patrol cars on the roads everywhere looking to stop and ticket offenders. That doesn't happen here. I don't know if is because they are too lazy or don't have enough police cars and bikes, but the system they have of just putting up checkpoints isn't even close to enough to deter people from breaking traffic laws. Then there is the need for schools and stricter tests as mentioned above...a complete overhaul is correct. They need to start from scratch.

Buy a number of flat tray trucks.

Position these at various points, along with a team of police.

Anyone caught without a helmet, especially after dark, has the bike impounded and loaded onto the truck.

Driver issued with a ticket, advising the fine and where to collect the bike 48hrs later, on production of a helmet and the correct fine.

Details entered into a central data-base, and 2nd offenders have double the fine.

It works in Vietnam, so why not here?

[wilcopops]

I just drove from Prachuap Khiri Khan, to Don Sak yesterday. There were two drivers on the way, that were absolute daredevils. One cut into my lane with about 4 feet of clearance between our cars, while we were going 120KPH. It was entirely unnecessary, as he had an open road to work with. I had to jam on my brakes to avoid slamming into this fool. He was just was being dumb, ignorant, silly, careless, reckless, and unconscious. The next guy, who was driving a new Mercedes, straddled the car in front of us, for some time, while staying between two lanes. He was driving about 4 feet from the other guys bumper, for an extended period. He moved onto the next car, and exhibited similarly ignorant behavior. And all this was taking place in the rain. We are taught to drive more carefully in the rain. These guys were not, it appears. Guys like this leave absolutely no chance for an emergency, an unexpected event, an animal or motorbike crossing the road, or any unforeseen circumstance. It is no wonder so many die here. And they are putting lives other than their own at risk in the process. Do the authorities care? Judging by the number of law enforcement officials I saw on the way (one) it is quite obvious what the answer to that question is.

Ultimately, it comes down to driver education, and traffic enforcement. I have little information about the former. The latter is completely absent. On the entire journey the only law enforcement official I saw was a policeman at an accident scene, where a vehicle (a new SUV) had gone off the road into the median strip, and flipped over. Other than that, there was nobody. How does the average driver behave himself, if there is no deterrent? There are no consequences for this kind of behavior. So whether or not this foundation donates 2 million dollars, will it help? Will they use that money to purchase a few cars to patrol the most important north south highway in central Thailand?

I fail to see what recounting personal experiences of what the driver perceives as bad driving can contribute anything to the debate about road safety in Thailand.

i have driven in many countries on various continents and could fill page after page with stories of ludicrous driving - however i don't because I'm aware that it is irrelevant.....I'm also aware that it happens all over the world and so is unlikely to be the root of the problem.

I could drive from one side of the US, to the other, over a period of days, and I doubt I would see two drivers as reckless as those two guys. That was my point. There is a huge deterrent there. If a highway patrol officer sees you pulling a stunt like that, you are charged with reckless driving. That is a huge fine, points off your license, and the possibility of losing your license. If it costs you alot, you are going to think twice. It would never in a million years occur to these guys to drive safely to avoid a massive fine, since the police are not a threat to their way of life, on any level. That is why this IS relevant.

Still missing the point - if you think the reason for poor road safety is racial then you are on a hiding to nothing, if you think personal anecdote is data, then you are on a hiding to nothing, if you think single issue pontification will make any difference then you are on a hiding to nothing.

[Alwyn]

Nowhere near enough for the job. They'd be better investing that in driver education

[BSJ]

You have to keep your wits about you here in Pattaya and anywhere else I have been in LOS. Is there any part of the country were Thai's ride and drive smart?

[spidermike007]

there's always someone who wants to argue statistics - or rather wants to show everyone how little they know about statistics. Road stats in particular are NEVER cut and dried - how they are complied and processed, who gathers the initial figures, what interpretation is made, what is classified as a "road death" - or are you including serious injuries as well - or just collisions - hospital, insurance or police reports?.......all this and more affects the figures.....at the end of the day though you CAN draw a conclusion and that is that Thai road safety is NOT GOOD and needs improving.

so how do you think arguing about numbers is going to help that?

Yes, if anything the Thai numbers are low. It has been publicly admitted that they do not include deaths in the hospital, as a result of the accident. So, the actual number of road fatalities is considerably higher. By any standards, Thailand is a very dangerous place to either drive, or to be on the road, in any form of transportation. And the government, as usual, is doing very little to correct that situation.

[spidermike007]

I just drove from Prachuap Khiri Khan, to Don Sak yesterday. There were two drivers on the way, that were absolute daredevils. One cut into my lane with about 4 feet of clearance between our cars, while we were going 120KPH. It was entirely unnecessary, as he had an open road to work with. I had to jam on my brakes to avoid slamming into this fool. He was just was being dumb, ignorant, silly, careless, reckless, and unconscious. The next guy, who was driving a new Mercedes, straddled the car in front of us, for some time, while staying between two lanes. He was driving about 4 feet from the other guys bumper, for an extended period. He moved onto the next car, and exhibited similarly ignorant behavior. And all this was taking place in the rain. We are taught to drive more carefully in the rain. These guys were not, it appears. Guys like this leave absolutely no chance for an emergency, an unexpected event, an animal or motorbike crossing the road, or any unforeseen circumstance. It is no wonder so many die here. And they are putting lives other than their own at risk in the process. Do the authorities care? Judging by the number of law enforcement officials I saw on the way (one) it is quite obvious what the answer to that question is.

Ultimately, it comes down to driver education, and traffic enforcement. I have little information about the former. The latter is completely absent. On the entire journey the only law enforcement official I saw was a policeman at an accident scene, where a vehicle (a new SUV) had gone off the road into the median strip, and flipped over. Other than that, there was nobody. How does the average driver behave himself, if there is no deterrent? There are no consequences for this kind of behavior. So whether or not this foundation donates 2 million dollars, will it help? Will they use that money to purchase a few cars to patrol the most important north south highway in central Thailand?

I fail to see what recounting personal experiences of what the driver perceives as bad driving can contribute anything to the debate about road safety in Thailand.

i have driven in many countries on various continents and could fill page after page with stories of ludicrous driving - however i don't because I'm aware that it is irrelevant.....I'm also aware that it happens all over the world and so is unlikely to be the root of the problem.

I could drive from one side of the US, to the other, over a period of days, and I doubt I would see two drivers as reckless as those two guys. That was my point. There is a huge deterrent there. If a highway patrol officer sees you pulling a stunt like that, you are charged with reckless driving. That is a huge fine, points off your license, and the possibility of losing your license. If it costs you alot, you are going to think twice. It would never in a million years occur to these guys to drive safely to avoid a massive fine, since the police are not a threat to their way of life, on any level. That is why this IS relevant.

Still missing the point - if you think the reason for poor road safety is racial then you are on a hiding to nothing, if you think personal anecdote is data, then you are on a hiding to nothing, if you think single issue pontification will make any difference then you are on a hiding to nothing.

A hiding to nothing? Where did that quote come from? Was that Yates, or Shakespeare? There are a lot of posts on this forum that are based on personal experience. Not all of us are scientists or pollsters. Just my opinion is all. It would be hard to argue that the lack of a legal deterrent here, is not one of the causes of reckless driving here. And my post was not racist. I was not singling out the Asian race. Last I heard there is no such thing as the Thai race. Nationality maybe, but not race.