Thailand Haltingly Moves Toward Stability and Democracy

[ginjag]

If it looks like fascism., smells like fascism...

But it was intervention.

[Tony125]

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

You sound like a Hi-So Bangkok Elite and yellow shirt who always say that regular Thai people are too uneducated and dumb to select a leader or correct government

[Thai at Heart]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

I love you bit of applaud the PM with Quote They've cleared a few beaches" and this is your non biased summing up is it.

5 months of highlighting the past wrongs and you expect he should have already solved them.

1 example Phuket alone. beachfronts, taxis, and the corrupt police.

It would take a year to sort out that Dung alone.

How many personnel do you think it would take to go through the whole of Thai provinces all 77 of them ??? For you to say a few beaches in 5 months is mind boggling. Use some logic mate see reason, could you do it all in 5 months.

This is cosmetic. It doesn't get to thr heart of the issue.

If they sequester every govt employees bank statement and asset list, they will discover who is bent.

Didn't they only partially disclose the assets in the ncp? They have done 10% of the job so far, and they only have a little time left.

They have barely scratched the surface of corruption. This is reality, not propaganda.

Thailand has an enormous corruption problem from buying pencils for schools to the army buying aircraft. EVERYTHING has a clip. EVERYTHING.

I've seen it first hand. When I worked in LOS, the rich owner of our school made us buy some polo shirts for an end of term show.They cost 400 baht (for Thai and western staff). I didn't think anything of it until I was in a local shopping centre a few days later. The very same shirts were being sold for 250baht each. My educated guess is that she probably got the shirts for much less than 250 baht each (seeing as she was buying dozens of them).

Despite owning holiday homes in France, Singapore and Hong Kong, the owner still wanted to fleece her staff. Unbelievable.

I personally know a bloke who probably bought a house in France by selling 3m masks and alcohol handwashto the bangkok government.

He probably can't wait for ebola to strike. The mark up on those masks was ludocrous. Bought himself an M3 whilst explaining this to me over a pint of Moet Chandon.

[wilcopops]

it is unfortunate that under the current regime, if anyone wanted to, they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash.

[Robespiere]

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

You sound like a Hi-So Bangkok Elite and yellow shirt who always say that regular Thai people are too uneducated and dumb to select a leader or correct government

"True democracy", "Absolute democracy", "Thai style democracy" - what nonsense. Thailand had real democracy and it was overthrown by anti-democrats.

[ginjag]

junk1e, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:49, said:

Totally agree with the article. Do others commenting really believe that previously had a democratically elected government? The current regime has done more in past 6 months to tackle corruption than any recent "elected" government.

Pray tell, just what has it done to really tackle corruption, granted a few small fry have been charge/investigated, but we have yet to see them spend any time in jail... to show they mean business they need to investigate/charge and jail those at the top, this of course will not happen as it would also mean investigating the military, the RTP, all politicians (from all parties) including but not limited to the village chiefs. It will NEVER happen, well not in my lifetime.

Another one who fails to understand that there is a process to be gone through before people are jailed.

First they must be investigated to determine if they have committed crime, assuming they have then they are charged with the appropriate crime, prosecuted and allowed their day(s) in court where the prosecution must prove then guilty before a judge can sentence them. They are then allowed to appeal a guilty verdict

All this take time and there are many investigations and prosecutions in the pipe line, some of those from very high places, for example Tarit.

Isn't the logical point to come from that unless a party proves demonstrably that they are consistently and effectively anti corruption, that they are likely corrupt too.

As yet,they've cleared a few beaches.

And even more ironically, they have enacted populist subsidies which they used as an excuse to oust the last bunch.

All sides of thr system are bent in Thailand. Once any side starts locking up their own, I will start believing they are part of the solution.

I love you bit of applaud the PM with Quote They've cleared a few beaches" and this is your non biased summing up is it.

5 months of highlighting the past wrongs and you expect he should have already solved them.

1 example Phuket alone. beachfronts, taxis, and the corrupt police.

It would take a year to sort out that Dung alone.

How many personnel do you think it would take to go through the whole of Thai provinces all 77 of them ??? For you to say a few beaches in 5 months is mind boggling. Use some logic mate see reason, could you do it all in 5 months.

This is cosmetic. It doesn't get to thr heart of the issue.

If they sequester every govt employees bank statement and asset list, they will discover who is bent.

Didn't they only partially disclose the assets in the ncp? They have done 10% of the job so far, and they only have a little time left.

They have barely scratched the surface of corruption. This is reality, not propaganda.

Thailand has an enormous corruption problem from buying pencils for schools to the army buying aircraft. EVERYTHING has a clip. EVERYTHING.

I've seen it first hand. When I worked in LOS, the rich owner of our school made us buy some polo shirts for an end of term show.They cost 400 baht (for Thai and western staff). I didn't think anything of it until I was in a local shopping centre a few days later. The very same shirts were being sold for 250baht each. My educated guess is that she probably got the shirts for much less than 250 baht each (seeing as she was buying dozens of them).

Despite owning holiday homes in France, Singapore and Hong Kong, the owner still wanted to fleece her staff. Unbelievable.

I personally know a bloke who probably bought a house in France by selling 3m masks and alcohol handwashto the bangkok government.

He probably can't wait for ebola to strike. The mark up on those masks was ludocrous. Bought himself an M3 whilst explaining this to me over a pint of Moet Chandon.

Rice tablets clocks Bla Bla.

Why don't you delete some of the posts instead of including all the other stuff.?? Aimed at Fatty 123.

[MediaWatcher]

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:26, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:20, said:

Reply to Robby NZ...

I know what has been happening, BUT I also know that very little has changed.. yes, there have been numerous investigations, most simply fade away, my point is, and you seem to fail understanding it is that so far little has changed, everyday we still see corruption, we still see the RTP taking "tea" money, happened to my wife only last week, we still see jetski scams on Patong beach, we still see cops siding with scammers, do I need to go on. How many charges/convictions have we seen with the rice scams...very little...how many military officers investigated, how many high level RTP investigated.... you really need to open you eyes, and mind, to the truth, not believe what the junta wants you to believe. I truly hope things do change, in a positive direction, for ALL Thais, but so far...nope, all talk. Thailand needs to mature and get over this coup will fix the problems mentality... The military has been in control, since 1932, longer, close to 50% of the time, than any single political party... and look at Thailand's political system.... fail fail fail. The coups have never succeeded and so far neither has this one.

Since 1932, Nelly Dean ??? omg NOT yet after 5 months tell us in 3 years, yes give him 3 years and see if there are any improvements ?? If not I will be ante coup.

Oh dear me, you should follow ALL of the conversation... not jump in without all the facts...I suggest you go back and start at the beginning. I'll help you more... start at comment #17.

[ginjag]

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

You sound like a Hi-So Bangkok Elite and yellow shirt who always say that regular Thai people are too uneducated and dumb to select a leader or correct government

"True democracy", "Absolute democracy", "Thai style democracy" - what nonsense. Thailand had real democracy and it was overthrown by anti-democrats.

Has to be in line for the most hilarious post of the month.

[ginjag]

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:26, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:20, said:

Reply to Robby NZ...

I know what has been happening, BUT I also know that very little has changed.. yes, there have been numerous investigations, most simply fade away, my point is, and you seem to fail understanding it is that so far little has changed, everyday we still see corruption, we still see the RTP taking "tea" money, happened to my wife only last week, we still see jetski scams on Patong beach, we still see cops siding with scammers, do I need to go on. How many charges/convictions have we seen with the rice scams...very little...how many military officers investigated, how many high level RTP investigated.... you really need to open you eyes, and mind, to the truth, not believe what the junta wants you to believe. I truly hope things do change, in a positive direction, for ALL Thais, but so far...nope, all talk. Thailand needs to mature and get over this coup will fix the problems mentality... The military has been in control, since 1932, longer, close to 50% of the time, than any single political party... and look at Thailand's political system.... fail fail fail. The coups have never succeeded and so far neither has this one.

Since 1932, Nelly Dean ??? omg NOT yet after 5 months tell us in 3 years, yes give him 3 years and see if there are any improvements ?? If not I will be ante coup.

Oh dear me, you should follow ALL of the conversation... not jump in without all the facts...I suggest you go back and start at the beginning. I'll help you more... start at comment #17.

Problem here is that it is TVF NOT a 2 hour school essay.

[JoeLing]

Actually, Thailand doesn't need to move slowly towards democracy because it has now achieved the democratic idyll of

' one man one vote '

Of course, that means just one man , and just the one vote. That man of course being the current prime minister.

.

Now, as we have a prime minister, that means we have a government and as we

have an interim constitution too, according to "BigBoss", we already have a democracy.

As for Stability. Thailand has been stable for the last 80 years. Stable decline.

[MediaWatcher]

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:49, said:

MediaWatcher, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:46, said:

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:26, said:ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:26, said:

Since 1932, Nelly Dean ??? omg NOT yet after 5 months tell us in 3 years, yes give him 3 years and see if there are any improvements ?? If not I will be ante coup.

Oh dear me, you should follow ALL of the conversation... not jump in without all the facts...I suggest you go back and start at the beginning. I'll help you more... start at comment #17.

Problem here is that it is TVF NOT a 2 hour school essay.

Then you really are very foolish to comment, when you don't know what you are commenting on. This would make you a... well I can not say, but if someone makes a "foolish" comment, then by definition, they would be are a fool.

[emilymat]

I read this article with some amazement, particularly the paragraph that said the Thai's do not want one party rule.

Does that mean the next 'election' whenever it comes about will be fixed so no one party obtains a majority?

or/

Does that mean they prefer one 'military' rule?.

If I was an American I would take exception to some of the things he says from his cosy corner of the US.

[ramrod711]

We have a second Michael Yon.

Wherever there's a chance to make a buck, someone will take it.

Morals be damned.

Well....if anyone ought to know, it's you.

[JOC]

If it looks like fascism., smells like fascism...

Feudal lackeys??

[ramrod711]

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

You sound like a Hi-So Bangkok Elite and yellow shirt who always say that regular Thai people are too uneducated and dumb to select a leader or correct government

Tony, try to keep up, The Shins are Hi-So elite.

[ginjag]

it is unfortunate that under the current regime, if anyone wanted to, they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash.

You just did.

[JAG]

The reality is that democracy extends as far as allowing an individual to vote in the next dictator who in turn is controlled by the banks and industry. For the people, by the people... it's just meaningless words. Unfortunately in Thailand with the average Thai being as ignorant as a toothbrush they cannot understand what true democracy is about and therefore cannot implement it.

The second paragraph of your post is possibly the most arrogant dismissal of the Thai people and their rights that I have seen on this forum

[Robespiere]

it is unfortunate that under the current regime, if anyone wanted to, they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash.

You just did.

No he didn't.

A reader may infer that Wilcopops believes the OP to be hogwash, but there is certainly no explanation as to WHY the OP is hogwash.

[MediaWatcher]

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 20:18, said:

wilcopops, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:42, said:

it is unfortunate that under the current regime, if anyone wanted to, they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash.

You just did.

Still failing to understand... it is very simple, for most people.. he said "they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash" the operative part is "they couldn't say why." Does that make it more clear?

[tonyjimmac]

The coup was carried out with one overriding objective. Anybody with any understanding of Thailand and its history will know exactly what that was. Anything else, whether about reforming society or returning democracy, is secondary by a long chalk to the coup's obvious main purpose. The General will hang on to power until that purpose is achieved.

[chotthee]

It was Thailand's bad luck, like Germany's in the 1930s and Italy's in the 1920s, to get a demagogue promising heaven and then some. Thaksin had made billions in the cellphone industry and had begun buying off journalists and northern politicians. He overwhelmingly won the 2001 election and then quickly showed his true colors. He put the lid on the parts of the media he didn't already control, reportedly had 3,000 small-time drug dealers killed in his war on drugs and generally showed that he was there to stay.

What is he trying to say?

Mixing Mussolini, Hitler and Thaksin. I would put Suthep in that category.

You better go back to your web design business Mr. President.

Just imagine what will Thailand become if the 3,000 small-time drug dealers is not got rid of?

Thailand will become the land of drug.

[ginjag]

ginjag, on 26 Oct 2014 - 20:18, said:

wilcopops, on 26 Oct 2014 - 19:42, said:

it is unfortunate that under the current regime, if anyone wanted to, they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash.

You just did.

Still failing to understand... it is very simple, for most people.. he said "they couldn't say why the OP is a load of hogwash" the operative part is "they couldn't say why." Does that make it more clear?

Why the comment in the first place wasn't a brill post was it.

[ginjag]

It was Thailand's bad luck, like Germany's in the 1930s and Italy's in the 1920s, to get a demagogue promising heaven and then some. Thaksin had made billions in the cellphone industry and had begun buying off journalists and northern politicians. He overwhelmingly won the 2001 election and then quickly showed his true colors. He put the lid on the parts of the media he didn't already control, reportedly had 3,000 small-time drug dealers killed in his war on drugs and generally showed that he was there to stay.

What is he trying to say?

Mixing Mussolini, Hitler and Thaksin. I would put Suthep in that category.

You better go back to your web design business Mr. President.

Just imagine what will Thailand become if the 3,000 small-time drug dealers is not got rid of?

Thailand will become the land of drug.

The shop is still open the customers got killed, do you get my drift. ???

[MediaWatcher]

chotthee, on 26 Oct 2014 - 20:32, said:

MobileContent, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:22, said:

It was Thailand's bad luck, like Germany's in the 1930s and Italy's in the 1920s, to get a demagogue promising heaven and then some. Thaksin had made billions in the cellphone industry and had begun buying off journalists and northern politicians. He overwhelmingly won the 2001 election and then quickly showed his true colors. He put the lid on the parts of the media he didn't already control, reportedly had 3,000 small-time drug dealers killed in his war on drugs and generally showed that he was there to stay.

What is he trying to say?

Mixing Mussolini, Hitler and Thaksin. I would put Suthep in that category.

You better go back to your web design business Mr. President.

Just imagine what will Thailand become if the 3,000 small-time drug dealers is not got rid of?

Thailand will become the land of drug.

There's no proof they were guilty, they weren't given the right to a trial. now, for some shocking news... Thailand is a land of drugs.

[mikiea]

It appears the writer, living in the U.S. is as clueless of the "American experiment" of the people ruling as some folks living here are of Thai culture. Oh, well. As we have said previously, the U.S. has many flaws but it does seek to allow a vote for citizens (yes, I am well aware of the Republican attempts to limit voters...of U.S. History...of the money being poured into influencing elections and politicians). But we Americans continue to struggle toward the ideal. The U.S. has a long history with the Thai people, we encourage them to reach toward that same ideal.

While we oft fall short, allow me to share the ideal:

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education". Thomas Jefferson

[fab4]

Still, most Thais are satisfied with the new government’s attempt at reconciliation. According to the result of a poll conducted in September with 1,534 people throughout the country, 43.16% said they were satisfied with it and 38.14% very satisfied, while 12.32% said they were a little satisfied and 6.38% not satisfied at all.

Most Thais want to give the new government a chance to implement a national campaign against corruption as well as the effort toward national reconciliation. They see these as crucial precursors to desperately needed constitutional reform.

Thais have had enough of majoritarian one-party rule. They believe in the new government’s commitment to restore elections in a new constitutional framework.

My first reaction is that Scott Chowtham doesn't read Thai Visa, I'm sure that he would have a whole different opinion if he was to read the comments of Fab 4 and the rest who support murder, arson and corruption. Make no mistake, when you support Thaksin, that is what you are standing in favor of. His rule of terror, complete with almost every member of his family, was nothing short of demagoguery.

My first reaction is ramrod711 has not understood the article. when you support Thanksin!!! Quite the contrary in Scott Chowthams case if you ask me!!!

My first reaction is he needs to watch his mouth.

[aripengu]

The Thaksin phenomenon is a consequence of Thai feudalism, the elites have been brainwashing the poor to be content and to accept their place in the pyramid for ages, Democracy was never and will never be in their agenda. If democracy is not good enough then make it more democratic more participative talk and discuss democracy, don't block polling stations, don't stage a military coup, don't impose censorship when dialogue is urgently needed, don't brainwash people with patriotic BS from the 50's in a globalized world where neighbors need to accept and respect each other.

[mikiea]

"i am well aware of rebublicans attempts to limit voters" how are you aware of this factoid? every thing you say after a lie is also a lie. if you are going to repete a rumor or complaint as fact than you become part of the rumor, #1 drivers lic. #2 passport #3 state id. #4 city id #5 voters regerstration card.# 6 social security card.# 7 birth certificate only 1 of which is required to vote. this is needed to prevent illegal voteing, last prez election 245,000 votes were cast by forigners. you are now a ill informed rumor monger or a liar. .. you choose :-)

[ginjag]

chotthee, on 26 Oct 2014 - 20:32, said:

MobileContent, on 26 Oct 2014 - 16:22, said:

It was Thailand's bad luck, like Germany's in the 1930s and Italy's in the 1920s, to get a demagogue promising heaven and then some. Thaksin had made billions in the cellphone industry and had begun buying off journalists and northern politicians. He overwhelmingly won the 2001 election and then quickly showed his true colors. He put the lid on the parts of the media he didn't already control, reportedly had 3,000 small-time drug dealers killed in his war on drugs and generally showed that he was there to stay.

What is he trying to say?

Mixing Mussolini, Hitler and Thaksin. I would put Suthep in that category.

You better go back to your web design business Mr. President.

Just imagine what will Thailand become if the 3,000 small-time drug dealers is not got rid of?

Thailand will become the land of drug.

There's no proof they were guilty, they weren't given the right to a trial. now, for some shocking news... Thailand is a land of drugs.

wish I had not agreed with this post. after receiving your insulting post.

[petercool]

A flame and baiting post removed.

Do not bait other posters, do not react to others baiting and do not flame other posters please. Thank you.