US Ebola nurse 'to take legal action' over confinement

[mercman24]

yep its the good old u.s. of a. she is obviously chasing the money trail. and as a previous poster pointed out, she cant be much of a nurse.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

She and the aid organisations the volunteers work for should be the ones facing law suits for not quarantining their staff for a mandatory 21 days prior to allowing them to return to their home countries.

Maybe just maybe sending them back home so soon after treatiing infected patients is another way of the aid agencies trying to garner sympathy and solicit more aid.

Should the USA also quarantine everyone returning from places where there are infectious diseases such as HIV and N1H1 - like forbid all people returning from Thailand? Let's have medical decisions made based on science, not hysteria or politics.

[ggt]

Let me get this straight...a "nurse" is complaining about being confined after return from treating Ebola patients in Africa...

Is she stupid or crazy...why on earth would she put her own selfish interests before the need to protect the general public...?

What would be a crime here...is to take a chance on sending these health workers out into US society to just see what happens...

Ridiculous "legal action" IMHO....

[sgtsabai]

Has one doctor responded on this thread? How about one real EMT? I don't have a problem with quarantine as such, but I get the impression she was treated like a criminal, not somebody returning from doing what none of us can and obviously by the cold hearted responses would do. Pay for your own quarantine, give me a break, better read up a bit on doctors without borders. They have a lot more intestinal fortitude than 99% of us here. She deserves to be treated with respect as do all health workers fighting Ebola.

[Credo]

Quarantine is sort of a presumption of guilt.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Without having declared something like a national emergency, she could have a reasonably good case.

Its a case of the public good takes precedent over the individual.

Quarantine is not a presumption of guilt. It is a presumption of illness.

Completely unrelated.

This nurse is giving Doctors Without Borders a bad reputation.

She is saying her desire to go out to dinner and movies is more important than the welfare of her community.

I do not have a very high opinion of this nurse.

You do realize your talking about detaining a person. Quarantine is just a nicer way of saying it but you are detaining someone without proper authorization. I am against that.

The policy needs to be set by the relevant medical agencies and it needs to be enforced uniformly to be effective. Now there is a 5 year old boy with symptoms, but he apparently wasn't detained?

Someone needs to determine what is 'contact' with an infected person. Someone has to determine how many days the quarantine needs to be for -- if you have left a 'hot zone' 5 days earlier, then why do you need 21 days after arriving in the US?

And quarantine will be carried out where, in your home, apartment, a hospital?

I have no objection to the medical community setting up the quarantine protocols, but not the politicians. Already people are slipping through the cracks.

And we need to remember that people are not infectious until they have symptoms.

[JDGRUEN]

The White House just can't figure out that Governors are on the firing line... not near so many Bureaucrats to hide behind... Governors have to be elected to be Governor again... Elitist in the White House can haggle for months what is right - Governors do not always have this luxury... People get angry -- people go vote in November... The White House has made itself nearly impervious from consequences from the public by the Media filtering all and defending to the hilt obama policies -- Governors have no where near the insulating propaganda machine... So they have to do something... We have the 10th. Amendment ... obama thinks it has something to do with 57 states... and that it is a suggestion not a Constitutional law.

White House ‘furious’ over Cuomo, Christie Ebola mandate


White House officials are pushing Govs. Cuomo and Chris Christie to dial down their mandatory quarantine rules and let the feds decide how to keep the deadly Ebola virus from spreading in the United States, sources told The Post on Sunday. “They are furious [with Cuomo and Christie] and can’t believe they rolled out [the regulations] without consultation,


http://nypost.com/2014/10/26/feds-say-governors-ebola-mandate-not-grounded-in-science/

[JDGRUEN]

Quarantine is sort of a presumption of guilt.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Without having declared something like a national emergency, she could have a reasonably good case.

Its a case of the public good takes precedent over the individual.

Quarantine is not a presumption of guilt. It is a presumption of illness.

Completely unrelated.

This nurse is giving Doctors Without Borders a bad reputation.

She is saying her desire to go out to dinner and movies is more important than the welfare of her community.

I do not have a very high opinion of this nurse.

You do realize your talking about detaining a person. Quarantine is just a nicer way of saying it but you are detaining someone without proper authorization. I am against that.

The policy needs to be set by the relevant medical agencies and it needs to be enforced uniformly to be effective. Now there is a 5 year old boy with symptoms, but he apparently wasn't detained?

Someone needs to determine what is 'contact' with an infected person. Someone has to determine how many days the quarantine needs to be for -- if you have left a 'hot zone' 5 days earlier, then why do you need 21 days after arriving in the US?

And quarantine will be carried out where, in your home, apartment, a hospital?

I have no objection to the medical community setting up the quarantine protocols, but not the politicians. Already people are slipping through the cracks.

And we need to remember that people are not infectious until they have symptoms.

I agree with you here - the processes involved in implementation of the act of quarantining should be refined and made reasonable, civil and made known and predictable. Plus IMO you are correct - days spent already away from Ebola patient contact should be counted as part of the 21 days... And Quarantine is detention - you are correct ...

But the public health laws in each state were not made up last week... Laws relating to quarantine have been on the books for decades... These laws spell out the authority created by state legislators years ago - we assume with citizen input and the medical community being consulted during the legislative process back then.

As an example in Dallas only a few weeks ago ... a homeless man who had been in the ambulance riding with Mr. Duncan was found and detained under a Public Health Warrant. When found - he was forcibly detained under that Public Health Warrant... this kind of Public Health Law is what I am speaking of... All States have them and big cities have them too - dovetailing with the state laws. This was not just sprung out of nowhere.

Another example - a person who is known by medical diagnosis to have Syphilis or HIV/AIDS and is known to have had unprotected sex with another person - under Public Health Laws can and have been arrested and prosecuted for reckless endangerment... When deaths have occurred from knowingly passing on AIDS - voluntary manslaughter or murder charges have been brought forth...

That is the kinds of laws on the books...

[billsmart]

Has one doctor responded on this thread? How about one real EMT? I don't have a problem with quarantine as such, but I get the impression she was treated like a criminal, not somebody returning from doing what none of us can and obviously by the cold hearted responses would do. Pay for your own quarantine, give me a break, better read up a bit on doctors without borders. They have a lot more intestinal fortitude than 99% of us here. She deserves to be treated with respect as do all health workers fighting Ebola.

This nurse chose to do what she did. Doctors Without Borders also choose to do what they do. The USA public did not sponsor them and the public should not be expected to pay for their clean-up on their return. They cannot just expect to go into a zone where there is a deadly, contagious disease and then return to the USA without proper precautions. And by "proper" I mean precautions that are acceptable to and enacted by the general public, not just the recommendations of the medical profession. The USA is a democracy not a oligarchy run by physicians or scientists.

Individuals and organizations like Doctors Without Borders do have a lot of intestinal fortitude. They also have a lot of hubris. The public isn't so much concerned with their intestinal fortitude as their intestinal viruses.

[billsmart]

Quarantine is sort of a presumption of guilt.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Without having declared something like a national emergency, she could have a reasonably good case.

Its a case of the public good takes precedent over the individual.

Quarantine is not a presumption of guilt. It is a presumption of illness.

Completely unrelated.

This nurse is giving Doctors Without Borders a bad reputation.

She is saying her desire to go out to dinner and movies is more important than the welfare of her community.

I do not have a very high opinion of this nurse.

You do realize your talking about detaining a person. Quarantine is just a nicer way of saying it but you are detaining someone without proper authorization. I am against that.

The policy needs to be set by the relevant medical agencies and it needs to be enforced uniformly to be effective. Now there is a 5 year old boy with symptoms, but he apparently wasn't detained?

Someone needs to determine what is 'contact' with an infected person. Someone has to determine how many days the quarantine needs to be for -- if you have left a 'hot zone' 5 days earlier, then why do you need 21 days after arriving in the US?

And quarantine will be carried out where, in your home, apartment, a hospital?

I have no objection to the medical community setting up the quarantine protocols, but not the politicians. Already people are slipping through the cracks.

And we need to remember that people are not infectious until they have symptoms.

There was proper authorization. The State of New Jersey authorized her quarantine.

The policy does not need to be uniformly enforced. Health policies and enforcement are state issues, not the Federal government's.

I'm suggesting if you have been in a "hot zone" you need to be quarantined for 21 days (or whatever the number is) BEFORE you return to the USA. And this quarantine should be at your own expense.

The quarantine should be carried out by a hospital or some other equivalent facility where proper monitoring can be done.

The medical community should have input into the quarantine protocols but the government (the public) should have final the final say on what is adequate and what is not.

A fever is a symptom, and this woman had one when she arrived at JFK Airport.

[ggt]

I think the nurse is right...YES I know...do not confine these healthcare workers in the US for 21 days...require them to be confined in their African host countries for 21 days...that would be justice for this insane healthcare worker...

[Scott]

Nothing going on in NY/NJ ... just a nurse yelping about being inconvenienced .... move along now - nothing to see..

5-year-old boy being tested for Ebola in New York City

A 5-year-old boy who just returned from West Africa was transported to Bellevue Hospital Sunday with possible Ebola symptoms, according to law-enforcement sources. The child was vomiting and had a 103-degree fever when he was carried from his Bronx home by EMS workers wearing hazmat suits, neighbors said. “He looked weak,” said a neighbor. “He was really, really out of it.” The boy returned with his family from Guinea Saturday night and five members of the family were being quarantined inside their apartment, sources said.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/5-year-old-boy-being-tested-for-ebola-in-new-york-city/

Why wasn't this boy in quarantine? I thought it was mandatory?

[JDGRUEN]

Nothing going on in NY/NJ ... just a nurse yelping about being inconvenienced .... move along now - nothing to see..

5-year-old boy being tested for Ebola in New York City

A 5-year-old boy who just returned from West Africa was transported to Bellevue Hospital Sunday with possible Ebola symptoms, according to law-enforcement sources. The child was vomiting and had a 103-degree fever when he was carried from his Bronx home by EMS workers wearing hazmat suits, neighbors said. “He looked weak,” said a neighbor. “He was really, really out of it.” The boy returned with his family from Guinea Saturday night and five members of the family were being quarantined inside their apartment, sources said.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/5-year-old-boy-being-tested-for-ebola-in-new-york-city/

Why wasn't this boy in quarantine? I thought it was mandatory?

Other than what is reported, I do not have anymore info... But is does say that the 'family' had been in quarantine.. Which is a darn good thing... Which - by lack of detailed information - assumes that the boy was part of that family...

This report is actually a very good thing ... Either way, the boy, the family and the public have been taken care of by isolation to a degree and to the fact that with quarantine comes observation - which means as soon as problems appear - the child was rushed to a hospital (we hope that was the case)... This could turn out to be a good example of what can work.. whether Ebola is present or not ... limited number of people exposed ... We will see what happens - ...

Also all the quarantine efforts are VERY recent ... no way to know at this time - of the timing of events - quarantine announced - properly carried out ... etc. we don't know yet.

Edited October 27, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[JDGRUEN]

Just a bit more info for the ignorant faux (not the) news watchers. No, the general public, especially the teabagging right wing ignoramuses, shouldn't set quarantine practices, most would being doing good to figure out how to apply a bandaid. And no she didn't have a fever and tested negative. I'm sure glad I never had to go into battle with the bunch of cold hearted cowards on this forum. Perhaps if you read some real news, including her own words you might, just might understand nit noi. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/26/new-york-new-jersey-s-ebola-quarantines-are-an-insane-overreaction.html?via=newsletter&source=CSMorning http://www.ozy.com/pov/the-spy-who-told-me-asia-is-where-the-real-trouble-is-at/36771?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=*Situation%20Report&utm_campaign=SitRep1027 http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=%2ASituation%20Report&utm_campaign=SitRep1027 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11188874/US-nurse-sues-after-being-forced-into-quarantine-as-she-returned-from-treating-Ebola-patients-in-Sierra-Leone.html

Try again ... the post formating process on Thaivisa forums has made your reply very difficult to understand

Edited October 27, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Chicog]

ironically today I have a sore throat, temperature, joint and muscle aches and chills.

Fortunately, there are no Republican politicians in charge of my health care so I'm just going to have a couple of days off work and sleep this seasonal bug off.

And the same goes for the nurse that Christie imprisoned:

Nurse Kaci Hickox, held at a New Jersey hospital under the state's Ebola quarantine policy, didn't present any symptoms and could complete her quarantine at home, state Governor Chris Christie said on Twitter.

[rotary]

She is selfish and uncaring about others around her. The risk is too great not to confine her.

[JacChang]

Please file a lawsuit against her for ATTEMPTED MURDER.

Since she knows she could possibly have ebola, and still refuses to be quarantined, she deliberately take other civilian's lives as a joke with an intent to cause harm and death to others.

Also strip her nurse license, as we now see her true intentions, her top priority is not the nation's health security, but her own freedom to cause harm to others.

[ClutchClark]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

She and the aid organisations the volunteers work for should be the ones facing law suits for not quarantining their staff for a mandatory 21 days prior to allowing them to return to their home countries.

Maybe just maybe sending them back home so soon after treatiing infected patients is another way of the aid agencies trying to garner sympathy and solicit more aid.

Should the USA also quarantine everyone returning from places where there are infectious diseases such as HIV and N1H1 - like forbid all people returning from Thailand? Let's have medical decisions made based on science, not hysteria or politics.

You do understand that Ebola can be transmitted far easier than HIV?

[ClutchClark]

ironically today I have a sore throat, temperature, joint and muscle aches and chills.

Fortunately, there are no Republican politicians in charge of my health care so I'm just going to have a couple of days off work and sleep this seasonal bug off.

And the same goes for the nurse that Christie imprisoned:

Nurse Kaci Hickox, held at a New Jersey hospital under the state's Ebola quarantine policy, didn't present any symptoms and could complete her quarantine at home, state Governor Chris Christie said on Twitter.

Chicog,

A very simple mind would see the Ebola scare as only a political "spat" between Red and Blue.

Since you are obviously not simple minded I wonder if your post isn't an attempt to incite the Red Brigade?

And, if so, isn't that called "Baiting"?

BTW, your little scenario of having a cold left out the KEY element--have you just returned from one of the three major Ebola-infected countries where you had daily contact with Ebola-infected persons?

Because you are a very intelligent poster, I know you are well aware that this is the most critical part of the screening/quarantine procedure.

[Ulic]

A 21 day quarantine at a US air force base in Germany before returning to the USA, (at the expense of the aid organization)

seems reasonable to me. Hardly fare to expose fellow citizens to Ebola. massive lawsuits against individuals and aid organizations

who infect the public in the USA will happen if anyone becomes infected. As it is the nurses have an solid case. The safety protocol

was obviously flawed.

[AhFarangJa]

Typical Lawyers jumping on the bandwagon...Yes I will represent you, and make a tidy sum, America, the land of the litigation.

Then, when the Lawyer contracts Ebola from the nurse, he will find a friend in the business to sue her!

The above is written with tongue in cheek gentlemen, ....but surely, if someone goes into these environments, whether for humanitarian or altruistic motives, then surely, they of all people should realise the need for precautions on their return? .... or am I missing something?

[chuckd]

Italy is requiring all US service men and women on the ebola detail to be quarantined for the 21 day period upon return from Africa.

I didn't realize Italy was run by the Republican Party.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CBS/AP October 27, 2014, 11:20 AM

U.S. soldiers returning from Liberia monitored for Ebola in Italy

U.S. soldiers returning from Liberia are being placed in isolation in Vicenza, Italy out of concern for the Ebola virus, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports.

The soldiers being monitored include Maj. Gen. Darryl Williams who was the commander of the U.S. Army in Africa but turned over duties to the 101st Airborne Division over the weekend, Martin reports. There are currently 11 soldiers in isolation.

They apparently were met by Carabinieri in full hazmat suits. If the policy remains in effect, everyone returning from Liberia - several hundred - will be placed in isolation for 21 days. Thirty are expected in today, Martin reports.

Article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

[Chicog]

ironically today I have a sore throat, temperature, joint and muscle aches and chills.

Fortunately, there are no Republican politicians in charge of my health care so I'm just going to have a couple of days off work and sleep this seasonal bug off.

And the same goes for the nurse that Christie imprisoned:

Nurse Kaci Hickox, held at a New Jersey hospital under the state's Ebola quarantine policy, didn't present any symptoms and could complete her quarantine at home, state Governor Chris Christie said on Twitter.

Chicog,

A very simple mind would see the Ebola scare as only a political "spat" between Red and Blue.

Since you are obviously not simple minded I wonder if your post isn't an attempt to incite the Red Brigade?

And, if so, isn't that called "Baiting"?

BTW, your little scenario of having a cold left out the KEY element--have you just returned from one of the three major Ebola-infected countries where you had daily contact with Ebola-infected persons?

Because you are a very intelligent poster, I know you are well aware that this is the most critical part of the screening/quarantine procedure.

Your very own choice of words speaks volumes. Ebola "scare" indeed.

As it happens I have spent time with some muslim pilgrims who may have spent time with some Nigerians who may have spent time with some infected people on a bus or something.

Chris Christie would probably have me locked up if I arrived in New Jersey. Until I threatened his fat behind with a lawsuit of course.

And you should notice that I have not portrayed it as a "spat", but as fearmongering and electioneering by the Republicans, which I named with examples of course.

Nothing to stop you linking ridiculous statements from Democrats. I'm sure there are some, I don't think party membership is that which makes them dumb.

But I still have yet to see how screening could stop an infected person with no symptoms entering New Jersey if he picked up it from a Liberian refugee while on holiday in Spain for example.

I'll say it again in case you missed it - Ebola will enter the US even if you close all airports.

And as the Hickox case shows, if you start making life difficult for people who are trying to help eradicate the outbreak, then it's more likely to spread.

Simple maths.

What this outbreak needs is bodies on the ground (not literally of course).

Edited October 27, 2014 by Chicog

[Chicog]

Italy is requiring all US service men and women on the ebola detail to be quarantined for the 21 day period upon return from Africa.

I didn't realize Italy was run by the Republican Party.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CBS/AP October 27, 2014, 11:20 AM

U.S. soldiers returning from Liberia monitored for Ebola in Italy

U.S. soldiers returning from Liberia are being placed in isolation in Vicenza, Italy out of concern for the Ebola virus, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports.

The soldiers being monitored include Maj. Gen. Darryl Williams who was the commander of the U.S. Army in Africa but turned over duties to the 101st Airborne Division over the weekend, Martin reports. There are currently 11 soldiers in isolation.

They apparently were met by Carabinieri in full hazmat suits. If the policy remains in effect, everyone returning from Liberia - several hundred - will be placed in isolation for 21 days. Thirty are expected in today, Martin reports.

Article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

Nice try Chuck, but this is an Army decision, not an Italian one. I'm guessing it was an informed decision based on the risks involved in their duties over there.

The decision made by the Army and applies only to soldiers returning from Liberia. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel will decide whether to make isolation apply to members of all services returning from Liberia.

[ClutchClark]

ironically today I have a sore throat, temperature, joint and muscle aches and chills.

Fortunately, there are no Republican politicians in charge of my health care so I'm just going to have a couple of days off work and sleep this seasonal bug off.

And the same goes for the nurse that Christie imprisoned:

Nurse Kaci Hickox, held at a New Jersey hospital under the state's Ebola quarantine policy, didn't present any symptoms and could complete her quarantine at home, state Governor Chris Christie said on Twitter.

Chicog,

A very simple mind would see the Ebola scare as only a political "spat" between Red and Blue.

Since you are obviously not simple minded I wonder if your post isn't an attempt to incite the Red Brigade?

And, if so, isn't that called "Baiting"?

BTW, your little scenario of having a cold left out the KEY element--have you just returned from one of the three major Ebola-infected countries where you had daily contact with Ebola-infected persons?

Because you are a very intelligent poster, I know you are well aware that this is the most critical part of the screening/quarantine procedure.

Your very own choice of words speaks volumes. Ebola "scare" indeed.

As it happens I have spent time with some muslim pilgrims who may have spent time with some Nigerians who may have spent time with some infected people on a bus or something.

Chris Christie would probably have me locked up if I arrived in New Jersey. Until I threatened his fat behind with a lawsuit of course.

And you should notice that I have not portrayed it as a "spat", but as fearmongering and electioneering by the Republicans, which I named with examples of course.

Nothing to stop you linking ridiculous statements from Democrats. I'm sure there are some, I don't think party membership is that which makes them dumb.

But I still have yet to see how screening could stop an infected person with no symptoms entering New Jersey if he picked up it from a Liberian refugee while on holiday in Spain for example.

I'll say it again in case you missed it - Ebola will enter the US even if you close all airports.

And as the Hickox case shows, if you start making life difficult for people who are trying to help eradicate the outbreak, then it's more likely to spread.

Simple maths.

What this outbreak needs is bodies on the ground (not literally of course).

First of all, Chris Christie is not fat. We do not have fat people in the US, we have "weight challenged". Christie is simply "big boned".

Yes, I used "scare" and, quite frankly, I am scared of an ebola outbreak in the US.

Why?

Because it is quite apparent by the infection of two healthcare nurses in Texas and the allegedly poor handling of quarantine procedures for the nurse in this article, that the US medical community and Gov't authorities do NOT have a handle on this highly infective disease.

The concern is warranted.

As for your new scenario above, you again create a ridiculous scenario to prove your point. This nurse was not three times removed from an infected patient. She was first person treating such patients and exposed to the Ebola virus daily. You obviously see the difference I am certain.

So this current argument of yours is like the earlier one where you say having a sniffle will get you quarantined whereby you intentionally omit the most critical part of the screening process--whether you had just returned from one of the three Ebola ravaged countries.

And, yes, Ebola will spread to the US even if you close all airports. But a smart guy like yourself is well versed in probability and certainly recognizes that an intelligent response to a danger or hazard is to mitigate exposure to the risk. This is typically done through numerous methods to be the most effective. Mandating a quarantine period is part of the mitigative effort just as wearing PPE is by healthcare workers.

Come on Chicog, your earth-shattering beauty can only allow you so many free passes. Soon enough you are going to have to offer up some posts with facts and not sensationalism and hyperbole.

Edited October 27, 2014 by ClutchClark

[hawker9000]

ironically today I have a sore throat, temperature, joint and muscle aches and chills.

Fortunately, there are no Republican politicians in charge of my health care so I'm just going to have a couple of days off work and sleep this seasonal bug off.

And the same goes for the nurse that Christie imprisoned:

Nurse Kaci Hickox, held at a New Jersey hospital under the state's Ebola quarantine policy, didn't present any symptoms and could complete her quarantine at home, state Governor Chris Christie said on Twitter.

What? Not yet found some Republican to blame for your being ill? Tsk, tsk. You're probably also busy finding someone to sue.

Edited October 27, 2014 by hawker9000

[NamKAheng]

They should start by putting the forehead temperature scanner company in quarantine since they are selling BS scanner.

[F430murci]

They are saying 5 year old tested negative.

[NamKAheng]

They took her temperature with a mouth thermometer and she was find, they did a blood test for Ebola that clear her from the virus, but politicians still wanted her in quarantine (politician, not a scientist). So for all the m..... here who think that she still need to be in quarantine, next time that you are sick, don't go to the doctor or a nurse, go see a republican politician or an immigration officer to get treatment.

[kamahele]

I think this quarantine after showing an elevated temperature upon arrival in NYC was warranted.

I also think the quarantine for people traveling to Ebola hot-spots ought to be in that country and before they leave, and I think the quarantine should be paid for by the individual or their organization - such as Doctors Without Borders. It shouldn't have to be borne by the US public.

She didn't have a fever until they "arrested" her and forced her into a tent with no running water or toilet. She also tested negative for Ebola and yet they still refused to let her leave. This goes against all the advice from those experienced with Ebola.

[konying]

I guess the good thing is she is not selfish after all.