Thailand Approves Kunming-Singapore Rail Line

[webfact]

Thailand Approves Kunming-Singapore Rail Line
Forbes Staff
By Ron Gluckman

BANGKOK: -- Rail lines running north from Bangkok to Chiang Mai have become so decrepit that derailments occur regularly. But plans to upgrade are also sidetracked with high frequency.

So Asian transportation experts, and railway buffs everywhere, were surprised by the Thai military government’s sudden approval in July of a $23 billion plan to upgrade and expand rail lines and other infrastructure. Included were two lines that could revolutionize the region’s freight service, linking ports around Bangkok and in Singapore with China and onward to Europe.

Such a pan-Asian rail network has been on the drawing board for decades and is promised in several recent regional pacts. Some routes were mapped out more than a century ago as the British and French carved tracks through the jungle in an ambitious Great Game of Trains that was meant to boost trade among their colonial holdings in Asia and counter Russia’s Trans-Siberian railway.

Now a new game is under way, and China is the key player. “China has been eyeing routes from Yunnan to the coast for a long, long time,” says Chalongphob Sussangkarn, who has studied various freight and passenger routes for decades as an advisor to the Thai government. Ports in Singapore and Bangkok, he notes, are closer to China’s vast southwest region than China’s own eastern ports.

Full story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesasia/2014/10/27/thailand-approves-kunming-singapore-rail-line/

-- Forbes 2014-10-28

[Thailand]

Wow, look at all that tea money becoming available.

[Ricardo]

Forbes appears to have missed, that Yingluck's plans were for a high-speed passenger-only network, within Thailand.

They also seem to have misunderstood, that the new freight-lines go only as far as Thailand's port, not all the way to Singapore, as they claim.

So they're confusing upgrading/doubling existing metre-gauge routes with new standard-gauge medium-speed lines.

And they've missed-out on the relaying of 300km of track, on the Chiang Mai line, last winter.

But hey, who needs facts, in a prestigious magazine like theirs ?

They take an already-confused & contradictory series of announcements, and make it even less clear, for their readers !

[RottingCorpse]

I sense a large scale 'Hopewell for the 21st Century' the offing.

I thought the masterplan was to link India to Yangon then in turn to BKK then onto HCMC and onto China that way

[Ricardo]

I sense a large scale 'Hopewell for the 21st Century' the offing.

I thought the masterplan was to link India to Yangon then in turn to BKK then onto HCMC and onto China that way

The som-tam lady, fount of wisdom on all things relating to Thai-culture, tells me that the route may also include the Spratly Islands.

Which explains why they're currently being 'augmented' by Chinese engineers ?

[chainarong]

George Orwell might have been right if you dream long enough it will come true.

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Wow, look at all that tea money becoming available.

Lots of Thai skim in this project.

[ginjag]

Wow, look at all that tea money becoming available.

Off we go again, amazing.

[yellowboat]

It will be up to the Chinese, Singaporeans and the Malaysians to move forward. Out maneuvering greed Thai officials will be the real challenge.

Of course, if the government was smart, they would look again at building a canal in southern Thailand. A port, a canal and a rail link to the world's second largest economy would be wildly profitable.

[asdecas]

It will be up to the Chinese, Singaporeans and the Malaysians to move forward. Out maneuvering greed Thai officials will be the real challenge.

Of course, if the government was smart, they would look again at building a canal in southern Thailand. A port, a canal and a rail link to the world's second largest economy would be wildly profitable.

Do you really believe that the Chinese are any better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Zhijun

[yellowboat]

It will be up to the Chinese, Singaporeans and the Malaysians to move forward. Out maneuvering greed Thai officials will be the real challenge.

Of course, if the government was smart, they would look again at building a canal in southern Thailand. A port, a canal and a rail link to the world's second largest economy would be wildly profitable.

Do you really believe that the Chinese are any better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Zhijun

At building railways? yes. Geting things done on time? yes. Not sure what your point is. He got arrested. If you are talking about corruption, Thais officials still come across and a bit more corrupt as bribing people there is easier. Yes, both sides are corrupt

[asdecas]

It will be up to the Chinese, Singaporeans and the Malaysians to move forward. Out maneuvering greed Thai officials will be the real challenge.

Of course, if the government was smart, they would look again at building a canal in southern Thailand. A port, a canal and a rail link to the world's second largest economy would be wildly profitable.

Do you really believe that the Chinese are any better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Zhijun

At building railways? yes. Geting things done on time? yes. Not sure what your point is. He got arrested. If you are talking about corruption, Thais officials still come across and a bit more corrupt as bribing people there is easier. Yes, both sides are corrupt

My point, since it escaped you first time round, is that when it come to corruption, the Thais are rank amateurs when compared to the Chinese.

You are right though that the latter's command politics, directed from top down, allows for swift but not always safe and well-considered implementation of decisions - unfortunately all too often not without negative consequences for those unfortunate enough to be in the way.

[Sydebolle]

Don't get me wrong but does anyone in the Ministry of Pan-Asia Railways ever look out of the window?

The Chinese steamroller a track from China across Lao PDR to Thailand while we speak and the "approval" is not on the Thai cards. While the Chinese had their own initial interpretation of building and operating it remains a fact, that this line will be operational much faster than anything here in Thailand. And the Chinese brought some 60'000 workers along, together with their own cooks and camp doctors while the Laotians are by standing to see a miracle happen. The extension through Siam might see the same as the Chinese have a timetable to keep and that does not include lingering around with ignorant, feet dragging clowns.

[fosseway]

This was composed by

Forbes last November ?

Thailand Approves Kunming-Singapore Rail Line
Forbes Staff
By Ron Gluckman

BANGKOK: -- Rail lines running north from Bangkok to Chiang Mai have become so decrepit that derailments occur regularly. But plans to upgrade are also sidetracked with high frequency.

So Asian transportation experts, and railway buffs everywhere, were surprised by the Thai military government’s sudden approval in July of a $23 billion plan to upgrade and expand rail lines and other infrastructure. Included were two lines that could revolutionize the region’s freight service, linking ports around Bangkok and in Singapore with China and onward to Europe.

Such a pan-Asian rail network has been on the drawing board for decades and is promised in several recent regional pacts. Some routes were mapped out more than a century ago as the British and French carved tracks through the jungle in an ambitious Great Game of Trains that was meant to boost trade among their colonial holdings in Asia and counter Russia’s Trans-Siberian railway.

Now a new game is under way, and China is the key player. “China has been eyeing routes from Yunnan to the coast for a long, long time,” says Chalongphob Sussangkarn, who has studied various freight and passenger routes for decades as an advisor to the Thai government. Ports in Singapore and Bangkok, he notes, are closer to China’s vast southwest region than China’s own eastern ports.

Full story: http://www.forbes.co...pore-rail-line/

-- Forbes 2014-10-28

Posted Today, 06:40

Thailand Approves Kunming-Singapore Rail Line
Forbes Staff
By Ron Gluckman

BANGKOK: -- Rail lines running north from Bangkok to Chiang Mai have become so decrepit that derailments occur regularly. But plans to upgrade are also sidetracked with high frequency.

So Asian transportation experts, and railway buffs everywhere, were surprised by the Thai military government’s sudden approval in July of a $23 billion plan to upgrade and expand rail lines and other infrastructure. Included were two lines that could revolutionize the region’s freight service, linking ports around Bangkok and in Singapore with China and onward to Europe.

Such a pan-Asian rail network has been on the drawing board for decades and is promised in several recent regional pacts. Some routes were mapped out more than a century ago as the British and French carved tracks through the jungle in an ambitious Great Game of Trains that was meant to boost trade among their colonial holdings in Asia and counter Russia’s Trans-Siberian railway.

Now a new game is under way, and China is the key player. “China has been eyeing routes from Yunnan to the coast for a long, long time,” says Chalongphob Sussangkarn, who has studied various freight and passenger routes for decades as an advisor to the Thai government. Ports in Singapore and Bangkok, he notes, are closer to China’s vast southwest region than China’s own eastern ports.

Full story: http://www.forbes.co...pore-rail-line/

-- Forbes 2014-10-28

[fosseway]

Sorry guys, please disregard my last post. Date correct.

[Camelot]

I'd be worried about the military implications and Malaysia and Singapore are likely to echo these fears. Thailand and points south could also see an even greater influx of substandard goods and fakes. It is being sold as a hugely positive development, but I still have qualms. How sure are we that all the trains will be full of Chinese tourists and commerce?

Think ahead a few decades and imagine the worst-case scenario. I'm not saying anything bad would happen but strategy dictates that Thailand should take all eventualities into account.

A canal across the isthmus of Kra has long been vetoed because of the strategic implications involved in technically cutting Thailand in two, especially given the unrest in the South. I can see a lot of heated controversy before the proposed Kunming to Singapore rail line is built.

[CapFarmer]

Every 5-10 years, the budget to study the rail line to China gets updated so that the funds can be distributed to the key players so that the plan can be put back to bed for another 5-10 years. I used to take the train from BKK to Nong Khai years ago. The rail lines were decrepit then. I would be scared to take the trip now.

[dru2]

I'd be worried about the military implications and Malaysia and Singapore are likely to echo these fears. Thailand and points south could also see an even greater influx of substandard goods and fakes. It is being sold as a hugely positive development, but I still have qualms. How sure are we that all the trains will be full of Chinese tourists and commerce?

Think ahead a few decades and imagine the worst-case scenario. I'm not saying anything bad would happen but strategy dictates that Thailand should take all eventualities into account.

A canal across the isthmus of Kra has long been vetoed because of the strategic implications involved in technically cutting Thailand in two, especially given the unrest in the South. I can see a lot of heated controversy before the proposed Kunming to Singapore rail line is built.

It's not about tourism. It's about exporting manufactured good - computers and heavy machinery, not plastic dustbins - from Sichuan, China's most populous but landlocked province, to the sea. They need an alternative to crowded Guangzhou and Shanghai, and this would fit the bill. Thailand would merely be a transit country.

[Ricardo]

I'd be worried about the military implications and Malaysia and Singapore are likely to echo these fears. Thailand and points south could also see an even greater influx of substandard goods and fakes. It is being sold as a hugely positive development, but I still have qualms. How sure are we that all the trains will be full of Chinese tourists and commerce?

Think ahead a few decades and imagine the worst-case scenario. I'm not saying anything bad would happen but strategy dictates that Thailand should take all eventualities into account.

A canal across the isthmus of Kra has long been vetoed because of the strategic implications involved in technically cutting Thailand in two, especially given the unrest in the South. I can see a lot of heated controversy before the proposed Kunming to Singapore rail line is built.

It's not about tourism. It's about exporting manufactured good - computers and heavy machinery, not plastic dustbins - from Sichuan, China's most populous but landlocked province, to the sea. They need an alternative to crowded Guangzhou and Shanghai, and this would fit the bill. Thailand would merely be a transit country.

Agreed, and the main Thai port would be almost-as-good as Singapore, which is why the freight-lines under recent discussion go to Laem Chabang, and no further South.

Nice one, better for Thailand, if not quite in the spirit of ASEAN !

[bitterbatter]

If they are serious then they better do a good job and do it soon. I would love to see somehting like this before I die.

[dru2]

I'd be worried about the military implications and Malaysia and Singapore are likely to echo these fears. Thailand and points south could also see an even greater influx of substandard goods and fakes. It is being sold as a hugely positive development, but I still have qualms. How sure are we that all the trains will be full of Chinese tourists and commerce?

Think ahead a few decades and imagine the worst-case scenario. I'm not saying anything bad would happen but strategy dictates that Thailand should take all eventualities into account.

A canal across the isthmus of Kra has long been vetoed because of the strategic implications involved in technically cutting Thailand in two, especially given the unrest in the South. I can see a lot of heated controversy before the proposed Kunming to Singapore rail line is built.

It's not about tourism. It's about exporting manufactured good - computers and heavy machinery, not plastic dustbins - from Sichuan, China's most populous but landlocked province, to the sea. They need an alternative to crowded Guangzhou and Shanghai, and this would fit the bill. Thailand would merely be a transit country.

Agreed, and the main Thai port would be almost-as-good as Singapore, which is why the freight-lines under recent discussion go to Laem Chabang, and no further South.

Nice one, better for Thailand, if not quite in the spirit of ASEAN !

I agree... but a link to Dawei or the new port under construction at Yangon would cut out the entire Malay Peninsula, which would surely benefit Myanmar and China.

[ratcatcher]

I'd be worried about the military implications and Malaysia and Singapore are likely to echo these fears. Thailand and points south could also see an even greater influx of substandard goods and fakes. It is being sold as a hugely positive development, but I still have qualms. How sure are we that all the trains will be full of Chinese tourists and commerce?

Think ahead a few decades and imagine the worst-case scenario. I'm not saying anything bad would happen but strategy dictates that Thailand should take all eventualities into account.

A canal across the isthmus of Kra has long been vetoed because of the strategic implications involved in technically cutting Thailand in two, especially given the unrest in the South. I can see a lot of heated controversy before the proposed Kunming to Singapore rail line is built.

It's not about tourism. It's about exporting manufactured good - computers and heavy machinery, not plastic dustbins - from Sichuan, China's most populous but landlocked province, to the sea. They need an alternative to crowded Guangzhou and Shanghai, and this would fit the bill. Thailand would merely be a transit country.

Agreed, and the main Thai port would be almost-as-good as Singapore, which is why the freight-lines under recent discussion go to Laem Chabang, and no further South.

Nice one, better for Thailand, if not quite in the spirit of ASEAN !

I agree... but a link to Dawei or the new port under construction at Yangon would cut out the entire Malay Peninsula, which would surely benefit Myanmar and China.

"....a link to Dawei or the new port under construction at Yangon would cut out the entire Malay Peninsula,..."

100% correct.

Totally eliminating the need to negotiate the Straits of Malacca and the Singapore strait, one of the most congested shipping areas in the world.

Tilawa (on the Yangon river and close to the main city) or Dawei, mean a ship bound for Europe heads straight across the Bay of Bengal and into the Indian Ocean and onwards to Suez.

[Thai at Heart]

Forbes appears to have missed, that Yingluck's plans were for a high-speed passenger-only network, within Thailand.

They also seem to have misunderstood, that the new freight-lines go only as far as Thailand's port, not all the way to Singapore, as they claim.

So they're confusing upgrading/doubling existing metre-gauge routes with new standard-gauge medium-speed lines.

And they've missed-out on the relaying of 300km of track, on the Chiang Mai line, last winter.

But hey, who needs facts, in a prestigious magazine like theirs ?

They take an already-confused & contradictory series of announcements, and make it even less clear, for their readers !

Through chiangmai or Khon Kaen?

The kunming line is supposed to come through Vientiane not towards chiangmai. Its too mountainous.

[Ricardo]

Forbes appears to have missed, that Yingluck's plans were for a high-speed passenger-only network, within Thailand.

They also seem to have misunderstood, that the new freight-lines go only as far as Thailand's port, not all the way to Singapore, as they claim.

So they're confusing upgrading/doubling existing metre-gauge routes with new standard-gauge medium-speed lines.

And they've missed-out on the relaying of 300km of track, on the Chiang Mai line, last winter.

But hey, who needs facts, in a prestigious magazine like theirs ?

They take an already-confused & contradictory series of announcements, and make it even less clear, for their readers !

Through chiangmai or Khon Kaen?

The kunming line is supposed to come through Vientiane not towards chiangmai. Its too mountainous.

IIRC the second line proposed was from Chang Khong (on the Mekong in Chiang Rai province), and didn't go via Chiang Mai, for the reason you've given.

Chiang Mai, as discussed in the OP, is therefore a total irrelevance, although one can see why Yingluck might have favoured it.

I can see the point of having two freight-routes (hence double the capacity), one through N.W.Thailand & one through Isaan, to Laem Chabang. The latter seems the more-likely to actually get built IMO.

[EyesWideOpen]

Forbes appears to have missed, that Yingluck's plans were for a high-speed passenger-only network, within Thailand.

They also seem to have misunderstood, that the new freight-lines go only as far as Thailand's port, not all the way to Singapore, as they claim.

So they're confusing upgrading/doubling existing metre-gauge routes with new standard-gauge medium-speed lines.

And they've missed-out on the relaying of 300km of track, on the Chiang Mai line, last winter.

But hey, who needs facts, in a prestigious magazine like theirs ?

They take an already-confused & contradictory series of announcements, and make it even less clear, for their readers !

Through chiangmai or Khon Kaen?

The kunming line is supposed to come through Vientiane not towards chiangmai. Its too mountainous.

IIRC the second line proposed was from Chang Khong (on the Mekong in Chiang Rai province), and didn't go via Chiang Mai, for the reason you've given.

Chiang Mai, as discussed in the OP, is therefore a total irrelevance, although one can see why Yingluck might have favoured it.

I can see the point of having two freight-routes (hence double the capacity), one through N.W.Thailand & one through Isaan, to Laem Chabang. The latter seems the more-likely to actually get built IMO.

As I recall, it was Thaksin who kept talking about routing through Chiang Mai, which of course makes no sense whatsoever if you actually look at a map.

[Ricardo]

I agree... but a link to Dawei or the new port under construction at Yangon would cut out the entire Malay Peninsula, which would surely benefit Myanmar and China.

"....a link to Dawei or the new port under construction at Yangon would cut out the entire Malay Peninsula,..."

100% correct.

Totally eliminating the need to negotiate the Straits of Malacca and the Singapore strait, one of the most congested shipping areas in the world.

Tilawa (on the Yangon river and close to the main city) or Dawei, mean a ship bound for Europe heads straight across the Bay of Bengal and into the Indian Ocean and onwards to Suez.

I think that a world-top-20 container-port like Laem Chabang might be more attractive than Dawei ?

Because it is already a major port-of-call, with many existing container-ships visiting, which could then be accessed.