US advises against Ebola isolation

[F430murci]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

Yep, gotta really love this part of the article cited:

Ebola : Deaths 60% of 100% = 60% (4 billion people potentially , with many more due to war , famine , etc)

. . .

8. Small , tight , heavily armed , xenophobic vertically integrated communities will tend to survive . Virtual tourism and sex will become very big . Pilots will need armed escorts .

The Internet will be the dominant force , overriding national concerns . If Governments were hoping to extend their control , they will find the opposite happening . After the Black Death , the social order in Europe collapsed . The Roman Catholic Church was nearly destroyed and endemic warfare and peasant rebellions bubbled up all over .

. . .

11. Flagellants , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisslerlieder Mass hysteria . Mass lynchings of politicians , doctors , scientists , pilots , bankers , the wealthy . Fundamentalism grows . Expect resumption of the Crusades . (Remember the 100 years War happened in similar circumstances) Good luck .

--------

Haha, all brought to you by the same guy who authored these fine writings:

The time to panic is before the Titanic has left the harbour .See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/ebola-friendly-reaper_6.html

If the Triffids don't get you, Ebola will : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/deader-guide-to-ebola.html

Plants have been breeding humans . See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/05/ebola-and-chocolate.html

Further examples of the Plant-Herbivore Wars : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/04/garlic-and-plant-herbivore-wars.html http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/07/rabies-alzheimers-and-formic-acid....

Notice the cute trick to penetrate skin barriers . Reminiscent of hemorrhagic diseases like Ebola and Especially SuperEbola . SuperEbola is Ebola on steroids , then add some . The Fifth Horseman on a Harley ! : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/01/training-immune-system.html

for the desperate . : See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2006/03/training-immune.html or try hiding : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/03/monasteries.html Communication has tobe tightly controlled See what happened to death.html

Try potatoes . It helped before . http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-and-bubonic-plague.html

http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-ii.html Good luck ! Andre Xxx

Edited October 28, 2014 by F430murci

[NamKAheng]

What exactly are the talking points "based on science" in both sides of the argument?

I have heard many arguments and maybe half are based on science.

Here is one scientific fact:

Ebola is spread through contact with an infected person's fluids, including external on the skin as well as in aerosol form from a sneeze or cough.

Ergo, preventing anyone contageous or at risk of contagion with Ebola from entering US soil would prevent the illness from spreading into the US.

Thats one scientific fact.

Based on science, she did not have a fever and her blood test was clean of the Ebola virus, that is a proven science fact!

Better science than the politician who believe in creationism. You are watching to much Fox News.

So the scientifically speaking the nurse you mention is not capable of displaying symptoms and becoming contagious AFTER her return to US soil?

OK, thats a relief because what I heard on FOX news is that she could begin to display symptoms as much as 3 weeks after her last exposure.

Thanks for clearing that up Doctor.

The New England Journal of Medicine, in an editorial published on its website, said the approach taken by New Jersey, New York and several other states “is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal.”

[ClutchClark]

Based on science, she did not have a fever and her blood test was clean of the Ebola virus, that is a proven science fact!

Better science than the politician who believe in creationism. You are watching to much Fox News.

So the scientifically speaking the nurse you mention is not capable of displaying symptoms and becoming contagious AFTER her return to US soil?

OK, thats a relief because what I heard on FOX news is that she could begin to display symptoms as much as 3 weeks after her last exposure.

Thanks for clearing that up Doctor.

The New England Journal of Medicine, in an editorial published on its website, said the approach taken by New Jersey, New York and several other states is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal.

Thanks, I will look for the article.

Because it sounds from your paragraph that the NEJMe is stating more that the policies of specific States is "unfair and unwise" against the fight of Ebola in the Hot Zone BUT that is not my priority. My priority and the priority of NJ, NY & IL is to prevent its spread to the US and that goal is best accomplished by quarantine measures or outright refusal to allow people from those countries to enter US territory (ala Australia).

Such a practice would have prevented all known cases of Ebola in the US to date and saved taxpayers $100 million or more already.

Cheers

Edited October 28, 2014 by ClutchClark

[MJP]

Ebola outbreak: Sierra Leone angry at Australia visa ban

Sierra Leone has condemned Australia's decision to suspend entry visas for people from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa as "counterproductive" and "discriminatory".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29809863

[Friendly Stranger]

I was hoping when I read the title it would not be what I thought. Words escape me...

All I can say is why and how long do we have!

A lot more to this story, vast amounts of resources have been found in West Africa including some of the largest diamonds in the World.

A new Kimberlite Pipe has also been located about six months before the outbreak.

US have long had an interest in getting troops into the area, i wonder if they will be locking down the Diamond area, so as to stop the spread of the virus.

Make of it what you will but sending troops into and infected area is rather strange.

As someone said, there's even opportunities during crisis.

Hats off to Australia for their balls and common sense.

[JDGRUEN]

Ebola outbreak: Sierra Leone angry at Australia visa ban

Sierra Leone has condemned Australia's decision to suspend entry visas for people from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa as "counterproductive" and "discriminatory".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29809863

Counterproductive - for whom... a citizen of Sierra Leone who wants to go to Australia ? ... Counterproductive is the wrong word -- Restrictive is better... Nothing in Australia's decision would prevent Medical / Ebola Aid Workers from going to Sierra Leone or any of the other countries affected by Ebola. Nor does it keep Ebola Aid Supplies, or Economic Assistance or normal trade goods from going to Sierra Leone... It probably wouldn't prevent trade goods from Sierra Leone from going to Australia... if there are any... and such goods would likely to be inspected and crew members very likely to have to remain on their vessel.

Discriminatory - Yes ... it certainly is -- Australia looking out for the welfare of Australians. A country looking out for the health and welfare of its citizens ..... How refreshing -- please ship this attitude to America.

[ClutchClark]

Hats off to Australia for their balls and common sense.

And what exactly makes an Australian's balls any more exemplary than Chris Christies?

Specific to this topic of Ebola, ofcourse.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ClutchClark

[JDGRUEN]

Hats off to Australia for their balls and common sense.

And what exactly makes an Australian's balls any more exemplary than Chris Christies?

Specific to this topic of Ebola, ofcourse.

Nothing -- there is little difference in stance... and Christie has not backed down to the extent that Cuomo did.

But the scale and scope are different... Australia bans Visas - the most effective way and cost effective way of keeping Ebola out of Australia.

[Chicog]

Such a practice would have prevented all known cases of Ebola in the US to date and saved taxpayers $100 million or more already.

And of course in the short term that should be the priority.

Meanwhile, the virus spreads in Africa because there aren't enough people to control it, and (as Dallas showed), no lessons are learned on how to contain it when it inevitably arrives, probably in greater numbers.

Sorry, I just don't see it.

[JDGRUEN]

State Department plans to bring foreign Ebola patients to U.S.

The State Department has quietly made plans to bring Ebola-infected doctors and medical aides to the U.S. for treatment, according to an internal department document that argued the only way to get other countries to send medical teams to West Africa is to promise that the U.S. will be the world’s medical backstop.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/state-department-plans-to-bring-foreign-ebola-pati/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The New England Journal of Medicine, in an editorial published on its website, said the approach taken by New Jersey, New York and several other states “is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal.”

Interesting... I've been wondering, other than political, what reasoned argument opponents of quarantine would have against in in the context of Ebola.

The NEJM editorial basically makes two points:

1. Ebola isn't communicable until after the person begins showing considerable symptoms, starting with a fever and then progressing.

2. Given the importance of stopping the disease at its source in West Africa, by instituting a quarantine policy, fewer of the much needed volunteer health care workers would be willing to go there, knowing they'd face a quarantine when coming back to their home country.

Well, I see two problems with those two justifications:

1. No. 1 relies on the presumption that exposed people are going to act responsibly, and in the public good, by self-reporting in a timely manner, which they certainly and simply don't always do. Maybe medical workers would be more conscientious about that, but the public at large simply isn't, which is one reason for some kind of quarantine policy.

And also, by waiting until someone (medical worker or general public) becomes symptomatic before they presumably would self-report themselves to a medical facility, that's then increasing the risk to everyone they might encounter initially in an unprotected context once they've begun showing symptoms.

2. If I was a Western medical worker volunteering in West Africa and let's say had a wife and/or children, the LAST thing I'd want would be to return home to my family with even the most remote risk of exposing them (or anyone else) to the disease. I'd WANT to stay clear of the general population, one way or the other, until I was sure I hadn't contracted Ebola. It's unfortunate that too many people seem more concerned with their own liberties and less concerned with those of everyone around them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hats off to Australia for their balls and common sense.

And what exactly makes an Australian's balls any more exemplary than Chris Christies?

Specific to this topic of Ebola, ofcourse.

In the U.S. political context, it's a question of which people have control over which policies.

Regarding visa issuance to foreign visitors, that's exclusively under the control of the federal government and the State Department, and state and local authorities have no say in that.

But regarding local health policies, those generally are under the control of state and county health departments, which have the legal authority to set their own policies -- apparently even if they run contrary to advice/guidelines being issued by the federal Centers for Disease Control.

Thus, since Christie has no ability to alter or impact U.S. visa policies, he's aiming at something his state does have the ability to influence. I guess you'd kind of call it, next best thing.

If Christie was president, perhaps, the U.S. federal government would have followed or joined Australia in that visa policy. But he isn't, and it doesn't seem that Obama and co. are willing to go there.

[JDGRUEN]

Christie's controversial Ebola quarantine now embraced by Nobel Prize-winning doctor

Nobel Prize-winning doctor and medical researcher, Dr. Bruce Beutler.

“...I favor it, because it’s not entirely clear that they can’t transmit the disease,” Beutler said, referring to asymptomatic healthcare workers like Kaci Hickox, a Doctors Without Borders nurse ... " ...“It may not be absolutely true that those without symptoms can’t transmit the disease, because we don’t have the numbers to back that up,” said Beutler, “It could be people develop significant viremia [where viruses enter the bloodstream and gain access to the rest of the body], and become able to transmit the disease before they have a fever..."

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/10/christies_quarantine_policy_attacked_by_aclu_cdc_and_even_the_un_is_embraced_by_2011_nobel_prize_win.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting article and commentary from a pretty heavyweight mainstream medical researcher...

That article also included the following info from Beutler:

"People may have said that without symptoms you can’t transmit Ebola. I’m not sure about that being 100 percent true. There’s a lot of variation with viruses.”

In fact, in a study published online in late September by the New England Journal of Medicine and backed by the World Health Organization, 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola were analyzed, and nearly 13 percent of the time, those infected with Ebola exhibited no fever at all.

And then there was this, which pretty much re-states one of the points I made above in post #72:

"Even if someone is asymptomatic you cannot rely on people to report themselves if they get a fever,” said Dr. Beutler, adding, “You can’t just depend on the goodwill of people to confine the disease like that – even healthcare workers. They behave very irresponsibly.”

Edited October 29, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"People may have said that without symptoms you can’t transmit Ebola. I’m not sure about that being 100 percent true. There’s a lot of variation with viruses.”

In fact, in a study published online in late September by the New England Journal of Medicine and backed by the World Health Organization, 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola were analyzed, and nearly 13 percent of the time, those infected with Ebola exhibited no fever at all.

I was looking around for the original source of this, and now have found it on the NEJM website... Just to be clear. It is NOT saying nearly 13% of confirmed and suspected Ebola cases had no symptoms. It's saying nearly 13% had no fever, but may well have had a variety of other symptoms.

But I guess the point of that is, it shows that health officials using temperature monitoring alone as a barometer of Ebola infection, such as at the international airports, isn't an absolute indicator.

The 87%/13% statistic for fevers is shown in Table 1 linked below:

http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJMoa1411100&iid=t01

Then this is the link to the full article:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100#t=articleMethods

Edited October 29, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JDGRUEN]

"People may have said that without symptoms you can’t transmit Ebola. I’m not sure about that being 100 percent true. There’s a lot of variation with viruses.”

In fact, in a study published online in late September by the New England Journal of Medicine and backed by the World Health Organization, 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola were analyzed, and nearly 13 percent of the time, those infected with Ebola exhibited no fever at all.

I was looking around for the original source of this, and now have found it on the NEJM website... Just to be clear. It is NOT saying nearly 13% of confirmed and suspected Ebola cases had no symptoms. It's saying nearly 13% had no fever, but may well have had a variety of other symptoms.

But I guess the point of that is, it shows that health officials using temperature monitoring alone as a barometer of Ebola infection, such as at the international airports, isn't an absolute indicator.

The 87%/13% statistic for fevers is shown in Table 1 linked below:

http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJMoa1411100&iid=t01

Then this is the link to the full article:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100#t=articleMethods

I have the WHO links posted before on one or more of the Ebola Threads... stating that the incubation period of 21 days is good for 95% of Ebola patients... and that 98% was good for up to 42 days ... Math says that 3% of Ebola infections do not show up until up to between 21 and 42 days... Plus WHO states that they are upset by the public announcements from various screening sources ruling out Ebola based on very short term testing ... they go into detail as to how the correct testing methods are done -- and then state that quick testing ruling out Ebola is impossible...

We are sitting on several statistical edges that say Ebola may be transmissible even when fever is not present, that incubation may take up to 42 days and that quick testing ruling out Ebola is not possible... AND YET people want to argue about the value of a 21 day Quarantine... even in light of this type of information... Which all points to political stance putting the public at risk instead of the SCIENCE the Administration postures about.

[JDGRUEN]

You see the CDC and the obama Administration assures us that no mandatory quarantine is needed... These professionals will self-quarantine at home - they're professionals 'ya know... Sure they will...

You know with Skype for communication in office conferences, even for giving live video interviews to news media, remote control of one's office computer via the Internet, on line banking for personal needs, on line purchasing, on line food orders... at home delivery for everything imaginable - quarantine is still too much of a problem - for these smart 'professionals'... Hell Bells - all this stuff I just mentioned can be done in a hospital room used for mandatory quarantine. These Smart Professionals could even have a daily Video Blog in their 21 days.... 'A Day in the Life of the Valiant Ebola Doctor'... conducted live from his Quarantine Room --- I can see it now. They could even rent a motor home and stay in it for 21 days ... I've done nearly that myself.

New York Ebola doctor 'LIED to police about his travel':

NYPD discovered he rode subway, ate at restaurant and went bowling after cops checked his MetroCard

It was only when officers rang Dr Spencer and confronted him with the evidence that he confessed, according to the New York Post.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2812254/New-York-Ebola-doctor-LIED-police-travel-NYPD-discovered-rode-subway-ate-restaurant-went-bowling-cops-checked-MetroCard.html

[Chicog]

We are sitting on several statistical edges that say Ebola may be transmissible even when fever is not present, that incubation may take up to 42 days and that quick testing ruling out Ebola is not possible... AND YET people want to argue about the value of a 21 day Quarantine... even in light of this type of information... Which all points to political stance putting the public at risk instead of the SCIENCE the Administration postures about.

I'm so glad you put this in bold or people might have missed it.

So all those people on the planes to and from Ohio, on the NY Subway and at the Bowling alley are expected to contract it soon then eh? Or at least 13% or something, which works out to be upwards of 30 people I reckon.

Of course, it could just be more fearmongering.

[Ulysses G.]

Anyone who is not afraid of the possible dangers of Ebola is not paying attention.

[Loptr]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

Yep, gotta really love this part of the article cited:

Ebola : Deaths 60% of 100% = 60% (4 billion people potentially , with many more due to war , famine , etc)

. . .

8. Small , tight , heavily armed , xenophobic vertically integrated communities will tend to survive . Virtual tourism and sex will become very big . Pilots will need armed escorts .

The Internet will be the dominant force , overriding national concerns . If Governments were hoping to extend their control , they will find the opposite happening . After the Black Death , the social order in Europe collapsed . The Roman Catholic Church was nearly destroyed and endemic warfare and peasant rebellions bubbled up all over .

. . .

11. Flagellants , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisslerlieder Mass hysteria . Mass lynchings of politicians , doctors , scientists , pilots , bankers , the wealthy . Fundamentalism grows . Expect resumption of the Crusades . (Remember the 100 years War happened in similar circumstances) Good luck .

--------

Haha, all brought to you by the same guy who authored these fine writings:

The time to panic is before the Titanic has left the harbour .See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/ebola-friendly-reaper_6.html

If the Triffids don't get you, Ebola will : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/deader-guide-to-ebola.html

Plants have been breeding humans . See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/05/ebola-and-chocolate.html

Further examples of the Plant-Herbivore Wars : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/04/garlic-and-plant-herbivore-wars.html http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/07/rabies-alzheimers-and-formic-acid....

Notice the cute trick to penetrate skin barriers . Reminiscent of hemorrhagic diseases like Ebola and Especially SuperEbola . SuperEbola is Ebola on steroids , then add some . The Fifth Horseman on a Harley ! : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/01/training-immune-system.html

for the desperate . : See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2006/03/training-immune.html or try hiding : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/03/monasteries.html Communication has tobe tightly controlled See what happened to death.html

Try potatoes . It helped before . http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-and-bubonic-plague.html

http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-ii.html Good luck ! Andre Xxx

Why do you think I provided the links without comment? Because I knew some denier would take issue with the source... Thanks for not disappointing me...

In a time when TPTB are obfuscating the truth due to political motives, you need to search near and far for the truth... But as an attorney, you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

[attrayant]

There is nothing inherently wrong with being afraid. It's a natural survival instinct. But we can't be guided solely by fear. The problems arise when the reactions to fear are irrational - even when those things seem like they ought to be plenty scary (fear of flying, fear of sharks, etc.) but in reality don't harm us to any significant degree. And when the fear stretches out to 'possibilities' that we're told we should be afraid of, that's when the behavior of otherwise rational people becomes positively surreal.

Seriously, take this statement:

Anyone who is not afraid of the possible dangers...

And apply it to other things that cause people to die:

• Falling coconuts cause about 150 deaths annually
• High school and college football injuries claim an average of 12 lives annually
• Flying champagne corks kill almost 24 people each year
• Almost 6,000 die from tripping and falling at home each year
• Choking on food is the cause of about 3,000 deaths each year
• Approximately 5,000 people die each year in the U.S. alone as a result of consuming uncooked, contaminated food
• Cows cause the death of about 20 Americans each year, mostly from blunt-force trauma

(items selected from this list)

Now compare that to the present ebola "epidemic" which, thus far, amounts to one death in the US.

Yes, it's that word 'possible' that gets us into trouble. I'm sorry but that is the dictionary definition of fear mongering.

[attrayant]

In a time when TPTB are obfuscating the truth due to political motives, you need to search near and far for the truth.

Question for you: how do you know when you've found it? Because this is what I see a lot of folks doing:

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, it's that word 'possible' that gets us into trouble. I'm sorry but that is the dictionary definition of fear mongering.

I'm not in America and the 2014 Ebola epidemic is the largest in history. 5,000 people have died so far and the disease is still spreading. You can really compare flying champagne corks to a virulent disease if one has any common sense.

[thailiketoo]

There is nothing inherently wrong with being afraid. It's a natural survival instinct. But we can't be guided solely by fear. The problems arise when the reactions to fear are irrational - even when those things seem like they ought to be plenty scary (fear of flying, fear of sharks, etc.) but in reality don't harm us to any significant degree. And when the fear stretches out to 'possibilities' that we're told we should be afraid of, that's when the behavior of otherwise rational people becomes positively surreal.

Seriously, take this statement:

Anyone who is not afraid of the possible dangers...

And apply it to other things that cause people to die:

• Falling coconuts cause about 150 deaths annually
• High school and college football injuries claim an average of 12 lives annually
• Flying champagne corks kill almost 24 people each year
• Almost 6,000 die from tripping and falling at home each year
• Choking on food is the cause of about 3,000 deaths each year
• Approximately 5,000 people die each year in the U.S. alone as a result of consuming uncooked, contaminated food
• Cows cause the death of about 20 Americans each year, mostly from blunt-force trauma

(items selected from this list)

Now compare that to the present ebola "epidemic" which, thus far, amounts to one death in the US.

Yes, it's that word 'possible' that gets us into trouble. I'm sorry but that is the dictionary definition of fear mongering.

The “Spanish” influenza pandemic of 1918–1919,which caused 50 million deaths worldwide is a virus like Ebola your accidental death statistics are not.

I would think the average 8th grader would know that.

[Chicog]

More potentially good news:

The number of new Ebola cases appears to be dropping in Liberia, the West African country hardest hit by the virus, a World Health Official said Wednesday.

The WHO has noted that new cases have been falling for more than a week, but officials weren't sure if there were really fewer cases, or if people had stopped going to the hospital, or if overwhelmed medical staff had simply stopped reporting cases, said Bruce Aylward, assistant director-general in charge of operational response at WHO.

"It appears the trend is real in Liberia," Ayward said. "There may indeed be a slowing of the epidemic there."

The epidemic is far from over, however. The number of cases has jumped to 13,703 -- an increase of about 3,000 reported cases in just a few days -- with about 5,000 deaths, mostly in the hard-hit nations of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinesa, Aylward said. The jump is likely due to a backlog of earlier cases that weren't reported.

Among patients whose outcome is known, "we know about 70% are dying," he said.

Aylward warned that Ebola can be unpredictable, with cases going up and down over time.

"Having a slight decrease in cases on a day-to-day basis and getting this under control is a completely different ballgame," Aylward said.

Three trends seem positive, however. Some hospital beds are opening up. Lab-confirmed cases seem to be plateauing. And the number of Ebola burials is declining.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/29/who-ebola-meeting/18107705/?

[attrayant]

The Spanish influenza pandemic of 19181919,which caused 50 million deaths worldwide is a virus like Ebola your accidental death statistics are not.

I would think the average 8th grader would know that.

Then you ought to go back to the 8th grade. Spanish flu: highly contagious, airborne, infected half a billion people. How is that like Ebola?

If you're so desperate for scary statistics that you had to go all the way back to the turn of the century to get some, I can do even better than that: It's 'possible' that an asteroid might smash into the planet and that would be the end of us all. Applying the reasoning that we need to be afraid of something based on how deadly it could "possibly" be, you'd think that would be at the top of the list and we should be building enormous asteroid-killing lasers on the mountain tops. But thankfully, cooler heads are prevailing and we don't resort to such silly leaps based only on what's "possible".

Now let's discontinue this random guessing about what's possible and focus on what's probable. There's a huge difference between the two.

[thailiketoo]

The Spanish influenza pandemic of 19181919,which caused 50 million deaths worldwide is a virus like Ebola your accidental death statistics are not.

I would think the average 8th grader would know that.

Then you ought to go back to the 8th grade. Spanish flu: highly contagious, airborne, infected half a billion people. How is that like Ebola?

If you're so desperate for scary statistics that you had to go all the way back to the turn of the century to get some, I can do even better than that: It's 'possible' that an asteroid might smash into the planet and that would be the end of us all. Applying the reasoning that we need to be afraid of something based on how deadly it could "possibly" be, you'd think that would be at the top of the list and we should be building enormous asteroid-killing lasers on the mountain tops. But thankfully, cooler heads are prevailing and we don't resort to such silly leaps based only on what's "possible".

Now let's discontinue this random guessing about what's possible and focus on what's probable. There's a huge difference between the two.

You wrote, "Then you ought to go back to the 8th grade. Spanish flu: highly contagious, airborne, infected half a billion people. How is that like Ebola?"

The answer to your question is they are both contagious viruses. Your quoting of accident statistics is obfuscating the issue with two dissimilar causes of death.

Trying to misdirect people about a potential pandemic is morally wrong and reprehensible behavior in my book and among many other rational people who are responding to the problem in Australia and a number of States in the USA with travel bans and quarantining.

Having experience with both the US government and Army I wouldn't feel to confident about their capability handling a major emergency like a pandemic anymore.

Edited October 29, 2014 by thailiketoo

[F430murci]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

Yep, gotta really love this part of the article cited:

Ebola : Deaths 60% of 100% = 60% (4 billion people potentially , with many more due to war , famine , etc)

. . .

8. Small , tight , heavily armed , xenophobic vertically integrated communities will tend to survive . Virtual tourism and sex will become very big . Pilots will need armed escorts .

The Internet will be the dominant force , overriding national concerns . If Governments were hoping to extend their control , they will find the opposite happening . After the Black Death , the social order in Europe collapsed . The Roman Catholic Church was nearly destroyed and endemic warfare and peasant rebellions bubbled up all over .

. . .

11. Flagellants , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisslerlieder Mass hysteria . Mass lynchings of politicians , doctors , scientists , pilots , bankers , the wealthy . Fundamentalism grows . Expect resumption of the Crusades . (Remember the 100 years War happened in similar circumstances) Good luck .

--------

Haha, all brought to you by the same guy who authored these fine writings:

The time to panic is before the Titanic has left the harbour .See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/ebola-friendly-reaper_6.html

If the Triffids don't get you, Ebola will : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/08/deader-guide-to-ebola.html

Plants have been breeding humans . See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/05/ebola-and-chocolate.html

Further examples of the Plant-Herbivore Wars : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/04/garlic-and-plant-herbivore-wars.html http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/07/rabies-alzheimers-and-formic-acid....

Notice the cute trick to penetrate skin barriers . Reminiscent of hemorrhagic diseases like Ebola and Especially SuperEbola . SuperEbola is Ebola on steroids , then add some . The Fifth Horseman on a Harley ! : see http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/01/training-immune-system.html

for the desperate . : See http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2006/03/training-immune.html or try hiding : http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/03/monasteries.html Communication has tobe tightly controlled See what happened to death.html

Try potatoes . It helped before . http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-and-bubonic-plague.html

http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2012/02/potatoes-ii.html Good luck ! Andre Xxx

Why do you think I provided the links without comment? Because I knew some denier would take issue with the source... Thanks for not disappointing me...

In a time when TPTB are obfuscating the truth due to political motives, you need to search near and far for the truth... But as an attorney, you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

I can say one thing for sure, I didn't know anything about plants breeding humans until your source opened my eyes to that fact.

Edited October 29, 2014 by F430murci

[JDGRUEN]

The only 'Mongering' going on around here are the 'Ebola Deniers' who want to dismiss the potential threat of the Ebola Epidemic. Those Deniers who are making nonsensical comparisons of Ebola to other causes of death that has no bearing on the reality of the situation.

Ebola is an Epidemic spreading wildly in at least three countries in West Africa -- the largest outbreak of Ebola to date... Though totally inadequate Government Policies, Ebola has found its way to America and to Spain. In America the inadequate policies have to do with not barring entry of potentially Ebola infected people into the country largely due to politically correct policies invoked without common sense applied.

Those of us here on the TVF Ebola related Threads who question U.S. Government policies on Ebola are in no way spreading rumors, causing panic or spreading scary information ... Rather we are posting relevant information and discussing it in a rational manner. The only thing we seek to do is spread knowledge and understanding.

For those on this thread who wish to be Deniers of the Obvious -- then by all means - go right ahead... But your falsely labeling of others in a derogatory manner in no way will help your cause of Denying the Seriousness of the Ebola Situation ...Nor will it keep us from discussing the ineptness and bias of the U.S. Government in handling of the potential world wide epidemic.

You who want to shut us up are on a Fools Errand... I for one will keep posting my information links and posting my opinion on them. You on the other hand are free to make a fool of yourself with nonsensical counter examples and of your falsely labeling me and other people who believe like me as alarmists... All the while you are the Nihilist attempting to hold down proper and prudent reactions to a deadly serious event that is occurring right before our eyes.

Your attempts to defame our positions will not work and will only serve to make you look the ridiculous denier of the obvious.

[Chicog]

The only 'Mongering' going on around here are the 'Ebola Deniers' who want to dismiss the potential threat of the Ebola Epidemic. Those Deniers who are making nonsensical comparisons of Ebola to other causes of death that has no bearing on the reality of the situation.

Ebola is an Epidemic spreading wildly in at least three countries in West Africa -- the largest outbreak of Ebola to date... Though totally inadequate Government Policies, Ebola has found its way to America and to Spain. In America the inadequate policies have to do with not barring entry of potentially Ebola infected people into the country largely due to politically correct policies invoked without common sense applied.

Those of us here on the TVF Ebola related Threads who question U.S. Government policies on Ebola are in no way spreading rumors, causing panic or spreading scary information ... Rather we are posting relevant information and discussing it in a rational manner. The only thing we seek to do is spread knowledge and understanding.

For those on this thread who wish to be Deniers of the Obvious -- then by all means - go right ahead... But your falsely labeling of others in a derogatory manner in no way will help your cause of Denying the Seriousness of the Ebola Situation ...Nor will it keep us from discussing the ineptness and bias of the U.S. Government in handling of the potential world wide epidemic.

You who want to shut us up are on a Fools Errand... I for one will keep posting my information links and posting my opinion on them. You on the other hand are free to make a fool of yourself with nonsensical counter examples and of your falsely labeling me and other people who believe like me as alarmists... All the while you are the Nihilist attempting to hold down proper and prudent reactions to a deadly serious event that is occurring right before our eyes.

Your attempts to defame our positions will not work and will only serve to make you look the ridiculous denier of the obvious.

As an independent observer, I wonder how you sleep at night.