US advises against Ebola isolation

[JDGRUEN]

Actually I think the large meeting was held to see what could be done if the 57 States decided to Invoke the 10th Amendment and do what they think is best for the Citizens... obama wanted to know how to convince Americans that the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were only suggestions and not a part of the Constitution. And that he had full authority to FORCE States to OBEY his every command.

All Hands On Deck: White House Convenes 27 Person Ebola Meeting

Suffering a crisis of confidence over his leadership on Ebola a week before the midterm elections, President Barack Obama assembled a massive staff meeting on the issue at the White House Sunday. Including the president, there were 24 people in physical attendance at the meeting CBS News said was convened “to discuss a nationwide policy for health care workers returning from West Africa.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/26/all-hands-on-deck-white-house-convenes-27-person-ebola-meeting/

[Chicog]

Actually I think the large meeting was held to see what could be done if the 57 States decided to Invoke the 10th Amendment and do what they think is best for the Citizens... obama wanted to know how to convince Americans that the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were only suggestions and not a part of the Constitution. And that he had full authority to FORCE States to OBEY his every command.

All Hands On Deck: White House Convenes 27 Person Ebola Meeting

Suffering a crisis of confidence over his leadership on Ebola a week before the midterm elections, President Barack Obama assembled a massive staff meeting on the issue at the White House Sunday. Including the president, there were 24 people in physical attendance at the meeting CBS News said was convened “to discuss a nationwide policy for health care workers returning from West Africa.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/26/all-hands-on-deck-white-house-convenes-27-person-ebola-meeting/

57 states?

[zydeco]

Yeah, 57 states. Some people really haven't a clue.

[chuckd]

Is this moving a little too fast for you, Chicog?

[Ulysses G.]

Actually I think the large meeting was held to see what could be done if the 57 States decided to Invoke the 10th Amendment and do what they think is best for the Citizens... obama wanted to know how to convince Americans that the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were only suggestions and not a part of the Constitution. And that he had full authority to FORCE States to OBEY his every command.

All Hands On Deck: White House Convenes 27 Person Ebola Meeting

Suffering a crisis of confidence over his leadership on Ebola a week before the midterm elections, President Barack Obama assembled a massive staff meeting on the issue at the White House Sunday. Including the president, there were 24 people in physical attendance at the meeting CBS News said was convened “to discuss a nationwide policy for health care workers returning from West Africa.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/26/all-hands-on-deck-white-house-convenes-27-person-ebola-meeting/

57 states?

According to the commander and chief.

[thailiketoo]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it?

[Chicog]

Actually I think the large meeting was held to see what could be done if the 57 States decided to Invoke the 10th Amendment and do what they think is best for the Citizens... obama wanted to know how to convince Americans that the Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were only suggestions and not a part of the Constitution. And that he had full authority to FORCE States to OBEY his every command.

All Hands On Deck: White House Convenes 27 Person Ebola Meeting

Suffering a crisis of confidence over his leadership on Ebola a week before the midterm elections, President Barack Obama assembled a massive staff meeting on the issue at the White House Sunday. Including the president, there were 24 people in physical attendance at the meeting CBS News said was convened “to discuss a nationwide policy for health care workers returning from West Africa.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/26/all-hands-on-deck-white-house-convenes-27-person-ebola-meeting/

57 states?

According to the commander and chief.

Ahaaa!

[Chicog]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it?

No but I have posted where the ban is counterproductive, Abbott is ignoring his own health chiefs, and he is refusing to send Australian health workers to assist.

[JDGRUEN]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

What exactly are the talking points "based on science" in both sides of the argument?

I have heard many arguments and maybe half are based on science.

Here is one scientific fact:

Ebola is spread through contact with an infected person's fluids, including external on the skin as well as in aerosol form from a sneeze or cough.

Ergo, preventing anyone contageous or at risk of contagion with Ebola from entering US soil would prevent the illness from spreading into the US.

Thats one scientific fact.

Shall we use science then in this discussion?

Ebola is spread through DIRECT CONTACT with fluids from an INFECTED PERSON where ebola is ACTIVE. Just as the spread of HIV is from an infected person where ebola is active. HIV is not communicable from a person who simply infected (ie., a carrier or in remission) with HIV. Ebola is not spread through the air - for survivability it requires a surface to survive, ie., an area not exposed to cell-killing oxygen. HIV is not spread through aerosols or sneezes, etc. either. Please don't argue that ebola COULD mutate into an airborne disease. That is only a supposition and not a scientific fact. Based on the fact that in over 40 years ebola has not mutated into an airborne disease any more than the much older HIV disease is proof.

Being at risk of containgion is not a scientific risk, only an emotional feeling of risk. You can live with a person with active HIV and not become infected. The mere presence of an HIV person cannot spread HIV. Ebola is the same. By your analysis because everyone on the planet is "at risk" not matter how remote that risk is, the whole planet's population should be isolated individually and monitored. And who is going to minitor the monitor?

So please keep science in the forefront and uneducated suppositions to the rear.

I would be interested in what you are saying except you are talking about HIV and I am talking about Ebola.

They are two unique communicable diseases and should be treated as such. Any attempt to make comparisons only confuses the matter.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that an Ebola infected person can cough bodily fluid, ie aerosol, into a persons eye or onto their skin and that person can become infected. Are you saying this is not possible?

Thanks

The WHO Reports that I published links to say that it is possible...

[F430murci]

I was hoping when I read the title it would not be what I thought. Words escape me...

All I can say is why and how long do we have!

A lot more to this story, vast amounts of resources have been found in West Africa including some of the largest diamonds in the World.

A new Kimberlite Pipe has also been located about six months before the outbreak.

US have long had an interest in getting troops into the area, i wonder if they will be locking down the Diamond area, so as to stop the spread of the virus.

Make of it what you will but sending troops into and infected area is rather strange.

Did you hear that on Alex Jones?

This place never disappoints!

[JDGRUEN]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it

Aussies cut off visas for residents of the West African Ebola Stricken countries... and earlier post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771896-us-advises-against-ebola-isolation/#entry8595143

[thailiketoo]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it

Aussies cut off visas for residents of the West African Ebola Stricken countries... and earlier post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771896-us-advises-against-ebola-isolation/#entry8595143

Don't you think the Aussies deserve their own thread? I'd hate to think the Americans get all the kudos for smart thinking alone.

[JDGRUEN]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it

Aussies cut off visas for residents of the West African Ebola Stricken countries... and earlier post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771896-us-advises-against-ebola-isolation/#entry8595143

Don't you think the Aussies deserve their own thread? I'd hate to think the Americans get all the kudos for smart thinking alone.

As a Nation Australia is doing more correct thinking on Ebola than America... we only have a few States doing the right thing with Ebola and Quarantine.. .

[Chicog]

Is the Australian Visa ban worse than the steps taken by America? Is it too getting the criticism from the UN. Is there a thread open on the Australian restrictions on Ebola travel? Have I missed it

Aussies cut off visas for residents of the West African Ebola Stricken countries... and earlier post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771896-us-advises-against-ebola-isolation/#entry8595143

Don't you think the Aussies deserve their own thread? I'd hate to think the Americans get all the kudos for smart thinking alone.

As a Nation Australia is doing more correct thinking on Ebola than America... we only have a few States doing the right thing with Ebola and Quarantine.. .

I'd say that is utter rubbish.

America is contributing both money and manpower to what is a global problem.

Abbott isn't pulling his weight at all. Perhaps he would if it gets to Malaysia.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Chicog

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My wife works in a BKK school that had a foreign student arrive from one of the key impacted Ebola countries. The student had no symptoms upon arrival in Thailand. But I gather in consultation with the Thai public health authorities, the school was directed to check the student's temperature and otherwise two times a day for the three-week period. The student was free to come and go, and could participate in school classes and activities, but the student had to have the medical check-in twice daily, and the student complied with that regimen. The student came thru it all with no symptoms.

That kind of approach might work in a small scale, closely supervised and controlled setting, such as a school with its own nursing staff and where the student is going to be in the same place (the school) most days of the week. But I'm afraid, both in the U.S. and certainly here in Thailand, that kind of voluntary system is likely to have leakage and non-compliance when applied against the much larger population of international travelers coming and going from country to country.

I'm what most people would probably consider a political lefty. But given the seriousness and fatality rate of Ebola, the current lack of a vaccine, the poor ability of medical facilities to deal with the disease and its patients, and given that it has an up to 3-week incubation period, it strikes me as perfectly reasonable to enforce a rule that anyone having had close exposure to potential Ebola patients, such as medical workers and even soldiers, ought to have a 3-week quarantine (that's quarantine, not jail!!!) period before coming home and/or being able to circulate freely among the general public.

It also strikes me as not unreasonable that a country like Australia, or even the U.S., might appropriately decide to suspend issuing visitor visas to nationals from the key impacted countries -- at least and unless those travelers pass a three-week quarantine period. I've never understood the argument I've seen some places that doing that would somehow restrict the ability of western aid workers to travel to those countries. They certainly don't need visas to return to their home countries, and they're not nationals of the key impacted countries.

[Jonmarleesco]

'The UN Secretary General has condemned enforced quarantine measures.' No doubt different rules will apply to people expecting to meet him.

[Chicog]

More to relax the worried:

Oct 28 (Reuters) - The second of two American nurses who became infected with Ebola while treating a Liberian man who died of the disease in Texas three weeks ago will be released from the hospital on Tuesday having been declared free of the virus, officials said.

http://www.trust.org/item/20141028163447-29yc8/?

There's an interesting note in there to placate the fearmongerers:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on Tuesday that new guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) set up restrictions for each person that correlate to the degree of exposure to Ebola.

The new CDC guidelines called for isolation of people at the highest risk for Ebola infection, but would allow most medical workers returning from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to monitor themselves daily and have a health official check in on them, without being isolated.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Chicog

[ClutchClark]

More to relax the worried:

Oct 28 (Reuters) - The second of two American nurses who became infected with Ebola while treating a Liberian man who died of the disease in Texas three weeks ago will be released from the hospital on Tuesday having been declared free of the virus, officials said.

http://www.trust.org/item/20141028163447-29yc8/?

There's an interesting note in there to placate the fearmongerers:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on Tuesday that new guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) set up restrictions for each person that correlate to the degree of exposure to Ebola.

The new CDC guidelines called for isolation of people at the highest risk for Ebola infection, but would allow most medical workers returning from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to monitor themselves daily and have a health official check in on them, without being isolated.

Chicog, is it possible for you to have a dialogue without the name-calling? It sounds more like an episode of Rush Limbaugh or one of his equally insane counterparts ;-)

Again, you do realize that the vaccine provided the two nurses in Texas is available in very limited quantities only and could not be available or administered to many victims simultaneously?

And you do realize that this nurse was at Ground Zero of the Ebola outbreak and would be considered one "of those people at highest risk" as mentioned in your last paragraph?

BTW, there have been many claims for science to lead the discussion and legislation yet much of the discussion surrounding special treatment for healthcare workers seems to be more a result of wanting to treat them like returning heroes and to not do anything to discourage them from wanting to go to ground zero. Neither of which is based on science but rather public perception and medical community self-importance.

You do realize this nurse is still in quarantine? Just that she is in quarantine at her own home rather than a medical facility.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ClutchClark

[Chicog]

More to relax the worried:

Oct 28 (Reuters) - The second of two American nurses who became infected with Ebola while treating a Liberian man who died of the disease in Texas three weeks ago will be released from the hospital on Tuesday having been declared free of the virus, officials said.

http://www.trust.org/item/20141028163447-29yc8/?

There's an interesting note in there to placate the fearmongerers:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on Tuesday that new guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) set up restrictions for each person that correlate to the degree of exposure to Ebola.

The new CDC guidelines called for isolation of people at the highest risk for Ebola infection, but would allow most medical workers returning from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to monitor themselves daily and have a health official check in on them, without being isolated.

Chicog, is it possible for you to have a dialogue without the name-calling? It sounds more like an episode of Rush Limbaugh or one of his equally insane counterparts ;-)

Again, you do realize that the vaccine provided the two nurses in Texas is available in very limited quantities only and could not be available or administered to many victims simultaneously?

And you do realize that this nurse was at Ground Zero of the Ebola outbreak and would be considered one "of those people at highest risk" as mentioned in your last paragraph?

BTW, there have been many claims for science to lead the discussion and legislation yet much of the discussion surrounding special treatment for healthcare workers seems to be more a result of wanting to treat them like returning heroes and to not do anything to discourage them from wanting to go to ground zero. Neither of which is based on science but rather public perception and medical community self-importance.

You do realize this nurse is still in quarantine? Just that she is in quarantine at her own home rather than a medical facility.

I think you are confusing nurses.

This is the second one infected in Dallas.

I suspect you are thinking of the one Christie imprisoned.

[ClutchClark]

More to relax the worried:

Oct 28 (Reuters) - The second of two American nurses who became infected with Ebola while treating a Liberian man who died of the disease in Texas three weeks ago will be released from the hospital on Tuesday having been declared free of the virus, officials said.

http://www.trust.org/item/20141028163447-29yc8/?

There's an interesting note in there to placate the fearmongerers:

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. government's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said on Tuesday that new guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) set up restrictions for each person that correlate to the degree of exposure to Ebola.

The new CDC guidelines called for isolation of people at the highest risk for Ebola infection, but would allow most medical workers returning from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea to monitor themselves daily and have a health official check in on them, without being isolated.

Chicog, is it possible for you to have a dialogue without the name-calling? It sounds more like an episode of Rush Limbaugh or one of his equally insane counterparts ;-)

Again, you do realize that the vaccine provided the two nurses in Texas is available in very limited quantities only and could not be available or administered to many victims simultaneously?

And you do realize that this nurse was at Ground Zero of the Ebola outbreak and would be considered one "of those people at highest risk" as mentioned in your last paragraph?

BTW, there have been many claims for science to lead the discussion and legislation yet much of the discussion surrounding special treatment for healthcare workers seems to be more a result of wanting to treat them like returning heroes and to not do anything to discourage them from wanting to go to ground zero. Neither of which is based on science but rather public perception and medical community self-importance.

You do realize this nurse is still in quarantine? Just that she is in quarantine at her own home rather than a medical facility.

I think you are confusing nurses.

This is the second one infected in Dallas.

I suspect you are thinking of the one Christie imprisoned.

I should have given them better names, I could name them by skin color but numerically is probably less offensive to some.

Nurse 1 & Nurse 2: infected in Texas and both received atleast one liter transfusion of blood plasma donated by a physician who recovered from ebola and had anti-bodies in his blood. A great gesture on his part but of limited benefit to even treating a dozen patients.

Nurse 2 is going home. Just credited on CNN for having recovered swiftly due to her young age and health.

Nurse 3: Returning from Ground Zero and gets very cranky after long air-travel. Currently quarantined to her home and being monitored for signs of viral infection twice daily. Suffers from a hero complex--no known cure.

[Chicog]

I think you are confusing nurses.

This is the second one infected in Dallas.

I suspect you are thinking of the one Christie imprisoned.

I should have given them better names, I could name them by skin color but numerically is probably less offensive to some.

Nurse 1 & Nurse 2: infected in Texas and both received atleast one liter transfusion of blood plasma donated by a physician who recovered from ebola and had anti-bodies in his blood. A great gesture on his part but of limited benefit to even treating a dozen patients.

Nurse 2 is going home. Just credited on CNN for having recovered swiftly due to her young age and health.

Nurse 3: Returning from Ground Zero and gets very cranky after long air-travel. Currently quarantined to her home and being monitored for signs of viral infection twice daily. Suffers from a hero complex--no known cure.

I'm glad you were able to sort it out.

So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0.

and the number of known patients in the US infected in the hot zone = 1.

Not really numbers to get alarmed at, are they?

Added: More good news (except for the dog):

The Spanish nurse who survived Ebola has spoken for the first time about her ordeal, saying the worst part was learning her dog had been put down.

Teresa Romero has been in quarantine in Madrid since October 6 after she became the first person to contract the disease outside Africa while treating two infected missionaries.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Chicog

[ClutchClark]

I should have given them better names, I could name them by skin color but numerically is probably less offensive to some.

Nurse 1 & Nurse 2: infected in Texas and both received atleast one liter transfusion of blood plasma donated by a physician who recovered from ebola and had anti-bodies in his blood. A great gesture on his part but of limited benefit to even treating a dozen patients.

Nurse 2 is going home. Just credited on CNN for having recovered swiftly due to her young age and health.

Nurse 3: Returning from Ground Zero and gets very cranky after long air-travel. Currently quarantined to her home and being monitored for signs of viral infection twice daily. Suffers from a hero complex--no known cure.

I'm glad you were able to sort it out.

So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0.

and the number of known patients in the US infected in the hot zone = 1.

Not really numbers to get alarmed at, are they?

But Chicog, I did have it sorted out. You just had trouble following along. ;-)

But are your own numbers above correct?

"So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0" ? I thought it was 2. (Nurse 1 & Nurse 2.)

Both whom were infected by a man that was from a Hot Zone and both of whom would not have become infected had the man been immediately quarantined and monitored or better yet, turned away at Customs.

True or False amigo?

[ClutchClark]

I'm glad you were able to sort it out.

So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0.

and the number of known patients in the US infected in the hot zone = 1.

Not really numbers to get alarmed at, are they?

Added: More good news (except for the dog):

The Spanish nurse who survived Ebola has spoken for the first time about her ordeal, saying the worst part was learning her dog had been put down.

Teresa Romero has been in quarantine in Madrid since October 6 after she became the first person to contract the disease outside Africa while treating two infected missionaries.

That is good news. If I recall, one of those missionaries died?

But her statement does not tell us anything about the associated pain of Ebola--only that the pain of losing her much-beloved dog was greater.

[Chicog]

I should have given them better names, I could name them by skin color but numerically is probably less offensive to some.

Nurse 1 & Nurse 2: infected in Texas and both received atleast one liter transfusion of blood plasma donated by a physician who recovered from ebola and had anti-bodies in his blood. A great gesture on his part but of limited benefit to even treating a dozen patients.

Nurse 2 is going home. Just credited on CNN for having recovered swiftly due to her young age and health.

Nurse 3: Returning from Ground Zero and gets very cranky after long air-travel. Currently quarantined to her home and being monitored for signs of viral infection twice daily. Suffers from a hero complex--no known cure.

I'm glad you were able to sort it out.

So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0.

and the number of known patients in the US infected in the hot zone = 1.

Not really numbers to get alarmed at, are they?

But Chicog, I did have it sorted out. You just had trouble following along. ;-)

But are your own numbers above correct?

"So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0" ? I thought it was 2. (Nurse 1 & Nurse 2.)

Both whom were infected by a man that was from a Hot Zone and both of whom would not have become infected had the man been immediately quarantined and monitored or better yet, turned away at Customs.

True or False amigo?

Which bit of "declared free of the virus" are you struggling with?

[Loptr]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

[ClutchClark]

I'm glad you were able to sort it out.

So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0.

and the number of known patients in the US infected in the hot zone = 1.

Not really numbers to get alarmed at, are they?

But Chicog, I did have it sorted out. You just had trouble following along. ;-)

But are your own numbers above correct?

"So the number of known patients in the US infected in the US = 0" ? I thought it was 2. (Nurse 1 & Nurse 2.)

Both whom were infected by a man that was from a Hot Zone and both of whom would not have become infected had the man been immediately quarantined and monitored or better yet, turned away at Customs.

True or False amigo?

Which bit of "declared free of the virus" are you struggling with?

Please excuse my difficulty but where did you write "declared free of the virus"? I am struggling to find it.

BTW, you never actually respond to my queries but rather go off on new tangents. It almost gives one the impression you really have no counterpoint. Ofcourse, I am not actually suggesting you don't but only that it gives that appearance.

BTW, thanks for your selective use of the emoticon feature.

[ClutchClark]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

Thanks for this.

I know those of us approaching this in a non-partisan manner will find this information enlightening.

[Chicog]

Please excuse my difficulty but where did you write "declared free of the virus"? I am struggling to find it.

When I first said the second Texas nurse was "declared free of the virus". You know, the one you confused with New York.

BTW, you never actually respond to my queries but rather go off on new tangents. It almost gives one the impression you really have no counterpoint. Ofcourse, I am not actually suggesting you don't but only that it gives that appearance.

Well some of your queries seem to be rhetorical questions, and others just make no sense.

There isn't enough serum to treat lots of patients you say.

There aren't a lot of patients I replied.

Did you have something specific you wanted me to answer?

It will be tomorrow now, it's a school night so time for some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's. But fire away.

[Chicog]

Provided without comment...

Ebola can survive on surfaces for almost TWO MONTHS

http://www.dailymail...mperatures.html

Ebola can be transmitted in aerosols up to 20 feet

https://www.academia...New_Black_Death

http://newsoffice.mi...rther-you-think

Thanks for this.

I know those of us approaching this in a non-partisan manner will find this information enlightening.

Well the "New Black Death" one is so comical I found myself laughing out loud.

Especially the bit about the Rogue Swan saving us?! And the Flagellants!?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Chicog

[ClutchClark]

When I first said the second Texas nurse was "declared free of the virus". You know, the one you confused with New York.

BTW, you never actually respond to my queries but rather go off on new tangents. It almost gives one the impression you really have no counterpoint. Ofcourse, I am not actually suggesting you don't but only that it gives that appearance.

Well some of your queries seem to be rhetorical questions, and others just make no sense.

There isn't enough serum to treat lots of patients you say.

There aren't a lot of patients I replied.

Did you have something specific you wanted me to answer?

It will be tomorrow now, it's a school night so time for some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's. But fire away.

You have beaten me down with your tedium.

You win.

I should have known better than to attempt argument with a woman whose beauty can stop a speeding locomotive.