ขนบธรรมเนียม

[Neeranam]

Can anyone help explain the following term ขนบธรรมเนียมประเพณี

I know the words individually ie ขนบธรรมเนียม - customs and ประเพณี - traditions but collectively, I think they mean something very different. Can anyone help?

[bannork]

How about social mores, customs, traditional values as in respecting elders, loyalty and love to the nation, religion and monarchy, showing respect by waiing or prostrating.

[champa]

Nomally we say ขนบธรรมเนียบประเพณี

Directly is subculture. Such as songkarn, loy kratong. สินสอด แห่ขันหมาก เวียนเทียน (candle light service for thai)

[bannork]

Sorry but loy krathong and songkran are not subculture!

Simply Thai traditions or customs is right I believe.

[champa]

Sorry but loy krathong and songkran are not subculture!

Simply Thai traditions or customs is right I believe.

FYI. Loy kra tong is subculture. It is rite. But different action in detail in different location. Song karn as well.

ประเพณี refers to rite. In thailand, tradition and rite are the same.

ขนบธรรมเนียม refers to normal lifestyle. Such as sawasdee, seniority, social class, dress and ect.

[tgeezer]

If you know what the individual words mean then you have it pretty much, it is just a matter of seeing it in context and deciding what it means.

ขนบ is a way of doing things

ธรรมเนียม applies to an action which people accept, admire or agree to do to the point of it becoming normal practice.

ประเพณี means ขนบธรรมเนียม .

The problem is to decide what saying so much means and the only way to find out is from context.

As you can see people don't agree on whether traditional festivals are ขนบธรรมเนียม but if that is the context, then they are in my opinion.

[AyG]

ขนบธรรมเนียมประเพณีไทย
ขนบธรรมเนียมประเพณีไทยเป็นคำที่ใช้เรียกรวมกัน ซึ่งมีความหมายว่า สิ่งที่สังคมในประเทศไทยนิยมประพฤติปฏิบัติต่อเนื่องสืบกันมาเป็นเวลานาน จนยึดถือกันในจิตใจว่าต้องปฏิบัติเช่นนั้น จึงจะเกิดความสุขความเจริญ

ขนบธรรมเนียม
ขนบธรรมเนียมประเพณีไทยมีอยู่มากมายหลายประการ เช่น ผู้น้อยต้องมีความเคารพผู้ใหญ่ มีความจงรักภักดีต่อ ชาติ ศาสนา และพระมหากษัตริย์ แสดงความเคารพกันด้วยการยกมือไหว้หรือกราบ

ประเพณีไทย
ประเพณีไทยเป็นการทำกิจกรรมทางสังคมของประเทศไทยที่ถือปฎิบัติสืบต่อกันมา ประเพณีไทยในสังคมไทยเรานั้นมีมากมายล้วนเป็นมรดกจากบรรพบุรุษ จากสิ่งแวดล้อมทางธรรมชาติและสังคม นับว่าคนไทยในปัจจุบันโชคดีที่มีแนวทางในการดำเนินชีวิตที่ดีงามไว้ปฎิบัติ เป็นแบบอย่างแก่ลูกหลานสืบต่อมาจนกระทั่งเป็นประเพณีไทยทุกวันนี้

Source: http://xn--22c8amcebfk1a1ablffaf5t5ch4sh5g.blogspot.com/2012/11/traditional-thailand.html

[tgeezer]

I think that you have mistyped ประเพณี in the explanation of ขนบธรรมเนียม. My point is though that rather than translating these single expressions why not translate them as you find them in a piece of text because not everyone understands them equally. The explanation seems to restrict ขนบธรรมเนียม to outward shows of manners and good breeding etc. but the definition of ขนบธรรมเนียม from the RID is : แบบอย่างที่นียมกันมา Way of carrying on which has been agreed upon. I dare say that you can find better words from a T/E dictionary but it is a fairly wide definition. ประเพณี is a ขนบธรรเนียม .

[bannork]

Sorry but loy krathong and songkran are not subculture!

Simply Thai traditions or customs is right I believe.

FYI. Loy kra tong is subculture. It is rite. But different action in detail in different location. Song karn as well.

ประเพณี refers to rite. In thailand, tradition and rite are the same.

ขนบธรรมเนียม refers to normal lifestyle. Such as sawasdee, seniority, social class, dress and ect.

It's not subculture, it's cultural variations, differences in appearance and perhaps form, but the substance is the same, ie paying respects to the river, water.

Subculture in English refers to a minority group with different and probably opposing values to the dominant group, ie a bunch of lazy,fit but unwashed crusties with their dogs begging for money from the average Bristolian going about his or her daily business.

[champa]

Sorry, it is my fault to confused all of you.

[phuketsub]

Sorry, it is my fault to confused all of you.

Don't be discouraged, your input is highly valued. Actually, your explanation makes sense if you look at the broader definition of the word 'subculture' in English:

From Merriam-Webster:

subculture : an ethnic, regional, economic, or social group exhibiting characteristic patterns of behavior sufficient to distinguish it from others within an embracing culture or society.

The problem is that most native English speakers now use the word in a pejorative (negative) way.

[tgeezer]

Sorry, it is my fault to confused all of you.

Don't be discouraged, your input is highly valued. Actually, your explanation makes sense if you look at the broader definition of the word 'subculture' in English:

From Merriam-Webster:

subculture : an ethnic, regional, economic, or social group exhibiting characteristic patterns of behavior sufficient to distinguish it from others within an embracing culture or society.

The problem is that most native English speakers now use the word in a pejorative (negative) way.

Sub-culture is negative. If I chose to use subculture to refer to an ethnic, regional, economic or social group it is unlikely to be received dispassionately. The "thought police" would be out in droves in England and rightly so from their point of view. That is not simply because of common usage but because of the definition.

[champa]

actually, the meaning of ขนบธรรมเนียม as subculture, I found from university content as the following link.

http://www.stou.ac.th/stouonline/lom/data/sms/market/Unit3/Subm2/U321-1.htm

In Thailand, there are many of varieties of culture. Especially divided by location and people.

Only chinese in Thailand, they are a lot of varieties and different in ขนบธรรมเนียม.

Some Chinese are catholic such as Soponpanich family who own Bangkok bank.

Some Chinese are Chaozhou, Cantonese, Hakka or Haw.

I was born in chinese family in Thailand. And I think that even Esan people are varieties as well and also variety in ขนบธรรมเนียม too.

Thailand is special place. We have Chinese, Thai, Lao, Muslim, Mon and Indian. So our culture was mixed and variety.

Songkarn in Thailand, Burma, Lao are difference.

[Baa_Mango]

actually, the meaning of ขนบธรรมเนียม as subculture, I found from university content as the following link.

http://www.stou.ac.th/stouonline/lom/data/sms/market/Unit3/Subm2/U321-1.htm

In Thailand, there are many of varieties of culture. Especially divided by location and people.

Only chinese in Thailand, they are a lot of varieties and different in ขนบธรรมเนียม.

Some Chinese are catholic such as Soponpanich family who own Bangkok bank.

Some Chinese are Chaozhou, Cantonese, Hakka or Haw.

I was born in chinese family in Thailand. And I think that even Esan people are varieties as well and also variety in ขนบธรรมเนียม too.

Thailand is special place. We have Chinese, Thai, Lao, Muslim, Mon and Indian. So our culture was mixed and variety.

Songkarn in Thailand, Burma, Lao are difference.

veryเจ๋งครับ thx