Little Stars new location (what a rip off)

[rakchaingmai]

So our child is in the last year of learning and at 3 weeks end of last term they decided to tell us that the location had moved i was actually fine with it that is not the problem .

I think music should be included in the curriculum the first year they included it then the next year they were charging 3200 baht per term for it , now that the kids have a had a free taste for it for a year lets charge the parents .

previous years if you wanted to learn extra classes then you would learn them at the end of school 4pm - 5pm again no problems with that but this year they are including them in lesson times at 1pm til 2pm when the kids should be learning or playing or something and of course the parents pay for it again .

so got a letter today that they now have an after school kids club between 4pm-5pm 5000 baht for 15 hours it just seems they keep making up ways to make money we all know schools a business first here but this is just ridiculous .

https://www.facebook.com/littlestarsbilingualpreschool/photos/a.545991488819997.1073741829.545388025547010/704756169610194/?type=1&theater

3000 baht a month for swimming what a joke .

yes i understand we don't have to do the extra lessons but when your child has been given something free for a year and she sees all her friends learning music of course she is going to want to learn it , this is really manipulating the parents out of money .

[N47HAN]

Similar scam happened here in Phuket.

My son was given a letter saying his English skills were below par and they suggested additional lessons during normal school hours for him to improve . ( A fee of 4,000.00thb per month ).

And so Did the entire class he was in !!!

After I came down from the ceiling contacted the school and they explained it was an error on teachers part and only a handfull of kids should of received the letter !

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited October 28, 2014 by N47HAN

[elektrified]

All of these schools are out to get every Satang from you that they can. I get sick of it too.

[onthedarkside]

Off topic video removed.

[shirtless]

They know you will pay, as you 5000bt a month is a small price for a happy child

[FolkGuitar]

I can appreciate your feelings of being manipulated. It often is the case with private schools. They are first and foremost businesses despite the fact that people would prefer them not to be. But the facts are, teachers want to get paid. And they want to get paid a salary that they can live on, just as everyone else. Personally, I'd rather a school paid top dollar and hired well-trained educators rather than barrel-scraping salaries hiring anyone who walks in off the street willing to work for peanuts. We try to choose the best schools for our kids, based on the schools academic record as well as the social skills taught, the Arts programs, and other extra-curricula offered.

I can teach half a dozen academic subjects as well as extra-curricula activities. I did so for most of my life, at high school and for 15 years at the university level. I have post-graduate degrees in several different subject areas, as well as degrees in Education. I invested a lot of time and I invested a lot of money working for those degrees. I do love sharing the things I learned during those years, but at the same time, sharing them was also my career. My job. I wanted and expected to get compensated for working at my profession.

The root of the word 'Education' is the Latin word 'educare.' It means 'to lead out.' It doesn't mean 'to cram in.' Anyone can hand a child a list and say "here... memorize this. There will be a quiz on Friday." It takes an educator to lead a child to the understanding of the material. But educators cost money.

Do people want to hire a babysitter to teach their kids? Or do they want to hire trained educators?

Who do we want teaching our kids?

I apologize for the rant... Teacher's salaries are a sore spot with every teacher, and have been since the days when Socrates was teaching Plato how to think. ('How,' not 'what.')

We all want what is best for our children. Unfortunately, it's not free. Good teachers work for the outcome, not the income, but the rent still has to get paid every month.

Edited October 29, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[Loaded]

"rip off" and "scam' are a little extreme. You are being charged for classes your child is attending. Communication between the school and parents (fairly typical here) has been poor, but you haven't been ripped off.

[Ulysses G.]

If the school provided one year for free to generate interest, I don't really see that as a "ripoff", but I can see how a parent would be disappointed to have to pay for it after that.

[amexpat]

Relax, OP. FolkGuitar assures us they are doing the bait and switch, etc, so they can pay the teachers more.

[FolkGuitar]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If the school provided one year for free to generate interest, I don't really see that as a "ripoff", but I can see how a parent would be disappointed to have to pay for it after that.

Most people would be disappointed to have to actually pay for something that they got for free, even though 'getting it for free' really means 'someone else is paying for it.'

Relax, OP. FolkGuitar assures us they are doing the bait and switch, etc, so they can pay the teachers more.

If you consider the free tasting samples at the supermarket 'bait ans switch,' you're correct. You do have to pay for more. If you consider the free shampoo samples or free powder samples handed out as advertising as 'bait and switch,' you're correct. You do have to pay for more. But if you see it as a test to see how much interest is generated by the offering, then no, you are simply wrong. It's market research at the expense of the company. After all, 'someone' is paying, just not the parents.

Do you know how much the average professor at CMU is paid each month? You couldn't rent a nice two-bedroom condo in a decent location on that salary! A high school teacher gets less, an elementary school teacher even less. Put it this way... the salary is just barely able to cover the required amount of pay for an expat to qualify for a work visa.

But perhaps you are among those who think teachers shouldn't get paid. A lot of people actually do feel this way. How much, in dollar sense, are you willing to invest in your child's future? Someone does have to pay. If it's your children, that someone should be you.

Edited October 29, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[MrBrad]

Relax, OP. FolkGuitar assures us they are doing the bait and switch, etc, so they can pay the teachers more.

I agree so much with what FolkGuitar says, but as Amexpat alludes to, how do we know that quality teachers are on staff? Charging more for tuition does not necessarily mean that the teachers will be well-paid.

I wish there was a way to ensure that one is getting what he's paying for, i.e., quality education, in this instance. Even the better private schools spend too much time on fun and games. For weeks--even before and during the term break--students at one of the "better" private schools in town have been rehearsing, concentrating on little other than the fair that finally is this weekend. Classes this week and last have been minimal, with a great portion of the day being spent working on getting dance presentations just right.

Frustratingly quality education is a low priority, as is woefully the case. After the dust settles from this week's fair, inevitably there will be other time-consuming activities scantily related to learning. Having fun, keeping the kids happily engaged and charging for it is what it's about.

[hml367]

Will the school actually pay the teachers more?

[Awk]

"Extra" classes in the middle of the normal school day? Sounds very much like a rip-off to me too. What is a child who does not attend the "extra" class supposed to do in that time? Sit alone for an hour and wait for the "non-extra" classes to start again? Any decent school will stay far away from such nonsense.

Decent schools will have a yearly fee (unfortunately considerably higher than little stars, ABS, and similar places which gave me a very poor impression 3-4 years ago, though I'm no expert and a lot depends on the teacher, I'm sure), but then that's it. "Extra" classes may or may not be provided, but if they are provided, they start after the normal school day has finished.

[Ulysses G.]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If the school provided one year for free to generate interest, I don't really see that as a "ripoff", but I can see how a parent would be disappointed to have to pay for it after that.

Most people would be disappointed to have to actually pay for something that they got for free, even though 'getting it for free' really means 'someone else is paying for it.'

Relax, OP. FolkGuitar assures us they are doing the bait and switch, etc, so they can pay the teachers more.

If you consider the free tasting samples at the supermarket 'bait ans switch,' you're correct. You do have to pay for more. If you consider the free shampoo samples or free powder samples handed out as advertising as 'bait and switch,' you're correct. You do have to pay for more.

At the risk of seeming pedantic, giving someone something for free - really for free - is not bait and switch. Offering it to them inexpensively and then saying it is not available or finding some pretense to to pressure them into buying something more expensive is bait and switch, but I get the point.

[FolkGuitar]

Relax, OP. FolkGuitar assures us they are doing the bait and switch, etc, so they can pay the teachers more.

I agree so much with what FolkGuitar says, but as Amexpat alludes to, how do we know that quality teachers are on staff?

The way I did it was to sit in on my son's classes every few weeks. Gave me a very good idea of wha was happening in the classroom.

Charging more for tuition does not necessarily mean that the teachers will be well-paid.

Very true!

For weeks--even before and during the term break--students at one of the "better" private schools in town have been rehearsing, concentrating on little other than the fair that finally is this weekend. Classes this week and last have been minimal, with a great portion of the day being spent working on getting dance presentations just right.

I'm of the opinion that learning 'social skills' are just as important as academic skills. These extra-curricular activities are a valid learning experience. Students learn teamwork skills, leadership training, and tools that they will be needing as adults to interact effectively in their daily lives. Same with school sports and Arts programs.

[FolkGuitar]

"Extra" classes in the middle of the normal school day? Sounds very much like a rip-off to me too. What is a child who does not attend the "extra" class supposed to do in that time? Sit alone for an hour and wait for the "non-extra" classes to start again? Any decent school will stay far away from such nonsense.

Or, a 'decent' school will provide extra teachers to tutor the student or students in need, giving personal attention on a one-to-one level so as not to disturb the more advanced students from paying attention to their own studies. THIS is what is done in EVERY public school in Japan. It works. It's done right on the classroom, so the 'group' is never broken up, and students can remain with their classmates without the stigma of being singled out. By the end of the school term, 90% of the students in the room will have received extra help in one subject or another. Often there are two or three 'extra' teachers working at the same time in the same room.

[Awk]

"Extra" classes in the middle of the normal school day? Sounds very much like a rip-off to me too. What is a child who does not attend the "extra" class supposed to do in that time? Sit alone for an hour and wait for the "non-extra" classes to start again? Any decent school will stay far away from such nonsense.

Or, a 'decent' school will provide extra teachers to tutor the student or students in need, giving personal attention on a one-to-one level so as not to disturb the more advanced students from paying attention to their own studies. THIS is what is done in EVERY public school in Japan. It works. It's done right on the classroom, so the 'group' is never broken up, and students can remain with their classmates without the stigma of being singled out. By the end of the school term, 90% of the students in the room will have received extra help in one subject or another. Often there are two or three 'extra' teachers working at the same time in the same room.

That sounds great and I have only read good things about such a system, but surely that is something different from what the OP describes?

The OP, if I understand correctly, describes a scenario where in the middle of the day, there is no regular class schedule from 13:00 to 14:00. Instead, those who wish can pay for the "extra" class, which is taught at this time, while those who do not wish/cannot pay, do what? Twiddle their thumb for an hour, waiting for the regular class to start again at 14:00?

[rakchaingmai]

"Extra" classes in the middle of the normal school day? Sounds very much like a rip-off to me too. What is a child who does not attend the "extra" class supposed to do in that time? Sit alone for an hour and wait for the "non-extra" classes to start again? Any decent school will stay far away from such nonsense.

Or, a 'decent' school will provide extra teachers to tutor the student or students in need, giving personal attention on a one-to-one level so as not to disturb the more advanced students from paying attention to their own studies. THIS is what is done in EVERY public school in Japan. It works. It's done right on the classroom, so the 'group' is never broken up, and students can remain with their classmates without the stigma of being singled out. By the end of the school term, 90% of the students in the room will have received extra help in one subject or another. Often there are two or three 'extra' teachers working at the same time in the same room.

That sounds great and I have only read good things about such a system, but surely that is something different from what the OP describes?

The OP, if I understand correctly, describes a scenario where in the middle of the day, there is no regular class schedule from 13:00 to 14:00. Instead, those who wish can pay for the "extra" class, which is taught at this time, while those who do not wish/cannot pay, do what? Twiddle their thumb for an hour, waiting for the regular class to start again at 14:00?

Yes that is exactly the point i was trying to get across how can you have extra lessons during normal school times and get the parents to pay for it .

if they want extra lessons then that should be done after school , they now have a extra class after school that they also want you to pay extra for .

I will be getting my child out of this system she has just got a place in an international school where the fees you pay have no hidden cost or so it says just a few field trips a year which is stated on the website already.

[FolkGuitar]

"Extra" classes in the middle of the normal school day? Sounds very much like a rip-off to me too. What is a child who does not attend the "extra" class supposed to do in that time? Sit alone for an hour and wait for the "non-extra" classes to start again? Any decent school will stay far away from such nonsense.

Or, a 'decent' school will provide extra teachers to tutor the student or students in need, giving personal attention on a one-to-one level so as not to disturb the more advanced students from paying attention to their own studies. THIS is what is done in EVERY public school in Japan. It works. It's done right on the classroom, so the 'group' is never broken up, and students can remain with their classmates without the stigma of being singled out. By the end of the school term, 90% of the students in the room will have received extra help in one subject or another. Often there are two or three 'extra' teachers working at the same time in the same room.

That sounds great and I have only read good things about such a system, but surely that is something different from what the OP describes?

The OP, if I understand correctly, describes a scenario where in the middle of the day, there is no regular class schedule from 13:00 to 14:00. Instead, those who wish can pay for the "extra" class, which is taught at this time, while those who do not wish/cannot pay, do what? Twiddle their thumb for an hour, waiting for the regular class to start again at 14:00?

IS this the situation? Or is this what the poster 'thinks' the situation will be?

Does the school have a regular 'study hall' period during the day for students?

When I was in school, at various grades, I didn't have academic subjects every single period. In Junior High and High School (the US 7th- 12th school years,) I had at least one period every day (and some semesters, two,) that was simply called "Study Hall," where I had to be present, and could do any work I chose to do, read a book, or twiddle my thumbs for an hour, so long as I was silent.

What are the regular school day hours? Does the day end at 3:00pm or at 4:30pm? What time does the first class begin? Is that the same time for every student or do students each follow their own individual schedules? Do the students sit in the same room all day long, or travel to different rooms for different classes.

[junglechef]

If a person is given a price for thier child to be taught a specific ciriculum then those classes are not free. Also a ful term of a class is not a sample. Its simply not a free sample.

Young children are impressionable, which is the point of exposing them to different subjects like music, and to get them to get an interest in it and then charging the parents more so the kids can continue in a part of thier schooling can put them in a position especially if the parents can just afford the regular tuition. It's not like the class was not offered anymore and I highly doubt the term fees went down to compensate for the change.

I just looked at quite a few private schools for my children to enroll in this term and often had question evaded and was outright lied to on more then one occasion. When discussing some of my concerns with parents of attending students whom I know they didn't know that certain things were occurring at thier children's school. From my experince there is reason to be concerned so I recommend that you do your homework

Edited October 29, 2014 by junglechef

[FolkGuitar]

Yes that is exactly the point i was trying to get across how can you have extra lessons during normal school times and get the parents to pay for it .

if they want extra lessons then that should be done after school , they now have a extra class after school that they also want you to pay extra for .

Oh my! Can you imagine! They want a teacher to teach an extra class and they want people to actually pay for it?!? That teacher should donate extra time and training outside the normal school day to teach your kids for free!

Tell me, do you work for free?

[junglechef]

I have the utmost respect for educators as my parents were University Professors but Folk Guitar this is getting to be over the top.

Do you really think a school with the name "Little Stars" is Junior High or High School? The link provided says pre-school - K3 so I don't think you really expect them to have a free study period for kids under 6 years old.

As for it being called an extra class I also will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you know that English can be used not exactly literally here.

Of course everyone should be paid for their work, which no one is disputing here, but if one is in it for the pay, a word you keep on mentioning, one could make lots more money if they went into one of many different careers such as investments or being a business owner, and those who go into teaching or cooking, as I did, don't do it mainly for the financial gain.

I'll use an example from my profession. In America we often offered set menu dinners for one price which including and appetiser, main dish, dessert and perhaps a drink. Here I more often then not see if a pre-fixe menu that is advertised as appetiser, main dish, drink and a FREE dessert.

Do you really think your getting a dessert for free??

And I highly doubt the salaried cook's wages are deducted for these free desserts either.

I interpret the OP issue is with the way the school administration dealt with this situation.

As I said I respect teachers and I understand your passion concerning this subject but your arguments are quickly making it hard to sympathise with you opinions on this thread.

Edited October 29, 2014 by junglechef

[rakchaingmai]

Yes that is exactly the point i was trying to get across how can you have extra lessons during normal school times and get the parents to pay for it .

if they want extra lessons then that should be done after school , they now have a extra class after school that they also want you to pay extra for .

Oh my! Can you imagine! They want a teacher to teach an extra class and they want people to actually pay for it?!? That teacher should donate extra time and training outside the normal school day to teach your kids for free!

Tell me, do you work for free?

No the fact is that they moved the extra classes from last term to the daytime then handed out letters for "juno park villa"which is after school which is 5000 baht for 15 hours .

don't mind paying for the extra lessons if she wants to do them the fact is it is during school time .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

But perhaps you are among those who think teachers shouldn't get paid. A lot of people actually do feel this way. How much, in dollar sense, are you willing to invest in your child's future? Someone does have to pay. If it's your children, that someone should be you.

Sure teachers should be paid, but the Thai schools hire babysitters and expect to be paid for providing teachers.

CM uni, yep, loads of unqualified staff, and they didn't even provide most foreigners with WPs until the Junta forced them.

I would love my kids to be taught be qualified teachers (not Filipinos), but nowhere provides that service.

The money is spent on the directors BMW.

As for your qualifications, worthless in Thailand, you are too old and want too much money, young, pretty and cheap is who they want to hire.

Edited October 29, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Awk]

Edit: Thavisa screwup - double post.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Awk

[Awk]

Yes that is exactly the point i was trying to get across how can you have extra lessons during normal school times and get the parents to pay for it .

if they want extra lessons then that should be done after school , they now have a extra class after school that they also want you to pay extra for .

Oh my! Can you imagine! They want a teacher to teach an extra class and they want people to actually pay for it?!? That teacher should donate extra time and training outside the normal school day to teach your kids for free!

Tell me, do you work for free?

You seem to have lost the plot here, old chap. Now is the time to gently ease foot out of mouth, rethink what the conversation is about, and if post again, post something that makes sense.

[MESmith]

I think these private schools have more "add ons" than the budget airlines. "But we haven't increased the tuition fees"

[FolkGuitar]

Yes that is exactly the point i was trying to get across how can you have extra lessons during normal school times and get the parents to pay for it .

if they want extra lessons then that should be done after school , they now have a extra class after school that they also want you to pay extra for .

Oh my! Can you imagine! They want a teacher to teach an extra class and they want people to actually pay for it?!? That teacher should donate extra time and training outside the normal school day to teach your kids for free!

Tell me, do you work for free?

You seem to have lost the plot here, old chap. Now is the time to gently ease foot out of mouth, rethink what the conversation is about, and if post again, post something that makes sense.

Deleted. It's kinder than replying.

Edited October 29, 2014 by FolkGuitar