Koh Tao murders: Influential island figure vows to clear his son's name

[love1012]

BBC's Jonathan Head take on it:

"Bizarre performance as # KhoTao boss son has v public DNA sampling and blood test at police HQ Bangkok."

https://twitter.com/pakhead

Looking forward to hear some more details on the BBC about the "bizarre" statement

It is bizarre. Have you ever seen a person who is not a suspect show up with press to publicly give DNA?

Logic is not conspiracy theorists strong point but coming up with bizarre theories is.

whereas police apoligists only spout garbage!!

[TTom911]

BBC's Jonathan Head take on it:

"Bizarre performance as # KhoTao boss son has v public DNA sampling and blood test at police HQ Bangkok."

https://twitter.com/pakhead

Looking forward to hear some more details on the BBC about the "bizarre" statement

It is bizarre. Have you ever seen a person who is not a suspect show up with press to publicly give DNA?

Logic is not conspiracy theorists strong point but coming up with bizarre theories is.

yeah, understand, the BBC is well know for its reckless comments and delusional conspiracy theories... as much as you are known for your rational arguments and undisturbed mind...

Edited October 30, 2014 by TTom911

[jdinasia]

It is nothing about conspiracy there a thousands of people who want to see evidence that he was not involved so that they see that this case is being handled honestly.

DNA is one thing but maybe some proof of phone records to show where he actually was at the time the crimes happened .

Why is it unfair to ask for to ask for this type of evidence.?

Maybe somebody else was using his phone or maybe they paid off the phone company to alter records ... exactly to what extent should a suspect cleared of a crime, a crime which two suspects are already in custody, have to go to prove his innocence to Internet Conspiracy Theorists who have absolutely no proof to even logically accuse him of being involved. DNA is not good enough but you somehow think phone records will be. Others have suggested things like airlines need to publicly release their passenger manifests.

If you mean 2 or 3 hundred thousand people who see a problem with this investigation and don't want to see innocent people jailed for life unless they are the real killers.

These 2 or 3 hundred thousand people have raised doubts so the proof should be shown to erase all doubts .

Not like you and your 2 mates who are happy to see these 2 accused burmese men put to the gallows as quick as possible.

Have a trial with a vigorous defense.

Not only are building a straw man, you are doing it poorly.

[love1012]

Many ask for evidence, proof, where's the link etc.

Forget about DNA, phones Sean and the rest.

Is there any disagreement that one of the most crucial factors here is the credibility of the RTP.

The UN have described them as a criminal organisation, the weight of history is against them.

Time after time it is the RTP who are revealed as the criminals involved in so many incidents in Thailand, it is not without reason they are despised by law abiding Thais.

They serve only one master, Greed. Justice is not on their agenda.

No. The UN has never said that. A person in no way associated with the UN used a UN definition and applied it to his opinion of the RTP.

if the UN did say that, you will have no problem providing a link.

where as YOU have a problem providing ANY links - they are not for the simple are they though!!?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Brit observers, Burma observers, human rights observers, good legal counsel for the suspects, police taking kid's, they already cleared, DNA and now police offering Suspects in Custody DNA to be retested without even a demand from the defense. Will this satisfy conspiracy theorists, not a chance. It will just make them go at it harder. The more confirmation and evidence against the two in custody, they more they are convinced their is a conspiracy happening.

Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[love1012]

It is nothing about conspiracy there a thousands of people who want to see evidence that he was not involved so that they see that this case is being handled honestly.

DNA is one thing but maybe some proof of phone records to show where he actually was at the time the crimes happened .

Why is it unfair to ask for to ask for this type of evidence.?

Maybe somebody else was using his phone or maybe they paid off the phone company to alter records ... exactly to what extent should a suspect cleared of a crime, a crime which two suspects are already in custody, have to go to prove his innocence to Internet Conspiracy Theorists who have absolutely no proof to even logically accuse him of being involved. DNA is not good enough but you somehow think phone records will be. Others have suggested things like airlines need to publicly release their passenger manifests.

If you mean 2 or 3 hundred thousand people who see a problem with this investigation and don't want to see innocent people jailed for life unless they are the real killers.

These 2 or 3 hundred thousand people have raised doubts so the proof should be shown to erase all doubts .

Not like you and your 2 mates who are happy to see these 2 accused burmese men put to the gallows as quick as possible.

Have a trial with a vigorous defense.

Not only are building a straw man, you are doing it poorly.

following a police lead i think its called

[love1012]

Police taking kid's, they already cleared, DNA and now allowing Suspects in Custody DNA to be retested without even a demand from the defense. Will this satisfy conspiracy theorists, not a chance. It will just make them go at it harder. The more confirmation and evidence against the two in custody, they more they are convinced their is a conspiracy happening.

police police police conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy police police police - what comes next TVF posters?

Edited October 30, 2014 by love1012

[wilcopops]

So one can be pretty sure that any DNA submitted and any DNA compared won't match?

As has been said, the initial samples of DNA have to be reliable as does the donor and those performing the tests and comparisons.

If I were an influential criminal, I would have been spending my time making sure that all these questionable factors were settled in my favour.

Of course the current situation is much more likely to be a simple misunderstanding?

Edited October 30, 2014 by wilcopops

[AndySilverfox]

^{If I was an Itinerant worker, working illegally on Koh Tao and had just raped and killed a girl in a frenzied brutal attack with a garden hoe and killed her boyfriend. I would stay on the island as if nothing had happened even wearing the same shirt the next day, no need to change after all (no nasty blood stains or anything).}

[jdinasia]

we see the totally coincidental similarities!?

"Thai police chief warns people who speculate about #KohTao murder on social media they cd be prosecuted under draconian computer crimes act."

"#KohTao boss Woraphan says he will sue people who have speculated about his family's involvement in 2 Brit murders."

https://twitter.com/pakhead

Amazing similarities!!

2 men are aware of the law!!

[jdinasia]

^{If I was an Itinerant worker, working illegally on Koh Tao and had just raped and killed a girl in a frenzied brutal attack with a garden hoe and killed her boyfriend. I would stay on the island as if nothing had happened even wearing the same shirt the next day, no need to change after all (no nasty blood stains or anything).}

Public boats off the island watched.

Multiple identical work shirts owned

[phanangpete]

I hope the UK police have checked the room for dna , the one David and Hanna were sharing (apparently) , im aware that from the outset they said they would be looking at the crime seen and the dna . Also im sure they will be looking at the cctv footage and if they can prove its the same guy in the Koh Tao bit as in Bkk , then we will be getting someone on this one .

If you look at Nomsods hair and stature , unless he has a twin, its him in the Koh Tao footage.

It has been proven by cctv that three Burmese had black coloured jeans /, shorts on that night, in the running man footage he are light coloured, with no belt (strange), also it has been reported that two minutes of this footage is missing , why.

Also it has been reported Nomsods brother has a computer /cctv camera shop !

[jdinasia]

So one can be pretty sure that any DNA submitted and any DNA compared won't match?

As has been said, the initial samples of DNA have to be reliable as does the donor and those performing the tests and comparisons.

If I were an influential criminal, I would have been spending my time making sure that all these questionable factors were settled in my favour.

Of course the current situation is much more likely to be a simple misunderstanding?

Conspiracy theory

[boomerangutang]

(image won't show again)

Why does the police chief look so happy standing behind Nomsot? Is there a reason why this a particularly meaningful event for him personally?

I thought the same when I saw him in the video. He's almost smirking. Here's my assumption: he's thinking 'the case is already officially closed' so this DNA sample means next-to nothing.

JDinasia keeps repeating: 'he (Nomsod, headman's son) is not a suspect' Yes, technically that's possibly true, particularly because the UK officials are hamstrung by being only observers, and not active investigators. However, nearly every one of the hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang watching this case closely, two things are prominent:

>>>> The investigation should not be closed at this time

>>>> Nomsod should be #1 suspect.

I can't help suspect glee (or fervent hopefulness) when JDinasia and JTJ keep writing 'case is closed' and 'headman's son isn't a suspect' am I wrong?

[Dogmatix]

Apparently police said at the press conference that anyone accusing the boy of being involved in the murders will go to prison for 5 years. That is before they have announced the results of the police DNA test. I guess they already know what the result is going to be just like they were really confident about what the results of the lightening fast DNA tests of the Burmese suspects before they were announced..

In any event there was only two men's DNA reportedly found in the victim but there was condom with the victim's blood on the outside with mysteriously no DNA traces inside it, despite the fact that it was used forcefully enough to make the victim bleed which must be almost unique. Even when the attacker fails to complete his disgusting deed, traces of skin cells and bodily fluids should have been evident, particularly in a such a violent rape.

[jdinasia]

following a police lead i think its called

A lead? That people uninvolved in the case see a problem after reading literally 100's of conspiracy theories?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Jai Dee
multiple nested quotes deleted

[jdinasia]

(image won't show again)

Why does the police chief look so happy standing behind Nomsot? Is there a reason why this a particularly meaningful event for him personally?

I thought the same when I saw him in the video. He's almost smirking. Here's my assumption: he's thinking 'the case is already officially closed' so this DNA sample means next-to nothing.

JDinasia keeps repeating: 'he (Nomsod, headman's son) is not a suspect' Yes, technically that's possibly true, particularly because the UK officials are hamstrung by being only observers, and not active investigators. However, nearly every one of the hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang watching this case closely, two things are prominent:

>>>> The investigation should not be closed at this time

>>>> Nomsod should be #1 suspect.

I can't help suspect glee (or fervent hopefulness) when JDinasia and JTJ keep writing 'case is closed' and 'headman's son isn't a suspect' am I wrong?

Yes, as usual, you are wrong.

[Oziex1]

I'll tell you right now what the outcome will be. He will be cleared and not because of some nefarious scheme cooked up by the BIB. Anyone familiar with familial DNA testing knows that because the father and uncle have already been tested and cleared that he will be cleared too. The thing that will remove all doubt is the fact that Scotland Yard will now be witness to this new testing. If they closely monitor the test - as I have no doubt they will -that should put the final nail in the conspiracy theory coffin.

When did the relatives have their DNA taken, was it at the beginning when everyone else had theirs taken?

Yes. The uncle was one of the first suspects DNA tested. Many of these keyboard detectives suggest that his test and the fathers' (which cleared them) was somehow tampered with. This new test, which will be corroborated by Scotland Yard, should settle things once and for all.

Nothing will be settled ever, while the RTP are involved, Trust them at your peril.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Koh Tao suspects offered new DNA tests - British police observers satisfied with police handling of case

http://udon-news.com/en/news/koh-tao-suspects-offered-new-dna-tests

Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[brd]

Haven't ever had in the past in Thailand the cases of impulsive local men or sometimes foreigners like Burmese boys getting rid of a boyfriend to have a go ( for her gold...to rape her ) to his girlfriend because under the or any other influence this is what he or they wanted on the moment why sadistically ending in the murder of the woman and of course with the horrific killing of the boyfriend, cleared by the same local protective well known corrupt headman and or police policing ?

This couple was beautiful, had friendly encounter in a or several bars, one followed by an argument with a local in a bar then one same or not local could not resist had a go at her horribly killing them, assisted possibly, both of them murdered with evidences.

Burmese sitting playing music heard very little of it.......so violent it looked the ways it happened.

Show us we are wrong with the truth.

FullStop

Edited October 30, 2014 by brd

[Dogmatix]

(image won't show again)

Why does the police chief look so happy standing behind Nomsot? Is there a reason why this a particularly meaningful event for him personally?

I thought the same when I saw him in the video. He's almost smirking. Here's my assumption: he's thinking 'the case is already officially closed' so this DNA sample means next-to nothing.

JDinasia keeps repeating: 'he (Nomsod, headman's son) is not a suspect' Yes, technically that's possibly true, particularly because the UK officials are hamstrung by being only observers, and not active investigators. However, nearly every one of the hundreds of thousands of Thais and farang watching this case closely, two things are prominent:

>>>> The investigation should not be closed at this time

>>>> Nomsod should be #1 suspect.

I can't help suspect glee (or fervent hopefulness) when JDinasia and JTJ keep writing 'case is closed' and 'headman's son isn't a suspect' am I wrong?

The British plods have been quoted as saying there were entirely satisfied with the Thai police investigation, just like the British ambassador was quoted praising the Thai police's "exemplary professionalism" during the investigation in a meeting to congratulate the police chief on his new job. Later a public statement from the FCO expressed concerns about allegations of police torture and corruption affecting the investigation. You can take your pick as to who you believe.

[jdinasia]

Apparently police said at the press conference that anyone accusing the boy of being involved in the murders will go to prison for 5 years. That is before they have announced the results of the police DNA test. I guess they already know what the result is going to be just like they were really confident about what the results of the lightening fast DNA tests of the Burmese suspects before they were announced..

In any event there was only two men's DNA reportedly found in the victim but there was condom with the victim's blood on the outside with mysteriously no DNA traces inside it, despite the fact that it was used forcefully enough to make the victim bleed which must be almost unique. Even when the attacker fails to complete his disgusting deed, traces of skin cells and bodily fluids should have been evident, particularly in a such a violent rape.

You may want to look at both the CCA and defamation laws in Thailand.

It has nothing to do with the results.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Apparently police said at the press conference that anyone accusing the boy of being involved in the murders will go to prison for 5 years. That is before they have announced the results of the police DNA test. I guess they already know what the result is going to be just like they were really confident about what the results of the lightening fast DNA tests of the Burmese suspects before they were announced..

In any event there was only two men's DNA reportedly found in the victim but there was condom with the victim's blood on the outside with mysteriously no DNA traces inside it, despite the fact that it was used forcefully enough to make the victim bleed which must be almost unique. Even when the attacker fails to complete his disgusting deed, traces of skin cells and bodily fluids should have been evident, particularly in a such a violent rape.

Of course they know his DNA will not match. They already have the two people in custody whose DNA does match. It would be impossible for his DNA to match too.

Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thai PM says New DNA Tests Can Be Done in British Probe Into Koh Tao Murders

http://www.irrawaddy.org/asia/thai-pm-says-new-dna-tests-can-done-british-probe-koh-tao-murders.html

Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[StealthEnergiser]

Thai PM says New DNA Tests Can Be Done in British Probe Into Koh Tao Murders

http://www.irrawaddy.org/asia/thai-pm-says-new-dna-tests-can-done-british-probe-koh-tao-murders.html

if DNA was planted on the victims how can this help ?

[Bleacher Bum East]

What is odd is these conspiracy theorists rely on police statements to make their conspiracy case but then when later police statements prove their theory wrong, they say nothing police say can be trusted.

Bottom line is there are no facts they will not ignore and nothing unknown they will not use to fill in blanks to make up facts to support their conspiracy theories. Whatever it takes, even if it requires going back in time and using select month old police suspects and ignoring any updates. There is no shame, no embarrassment anymore it is sheer desperation to keep their conspiracy theories going despite there being no motivation, proof or reality in these theories.

"What is odd is these conspiracy theorists rely on police statements to make their conspiracy case but then when later police statements prove their theory wrong, they say nothing police say can be trusted."

I agree that this is true of some posters (definitely not all), but the converse is also true JTJ:

You rely on police statements regarding DNA matching, etc. as your basis for saying the accused Burmese men are guilty and give no indication that you believe there is any possibility these statements could be later proved wrong or the evidence unreliable . . . but then when extremely strong and direct police statements about other suspects are reversed, you easily dismiss those statements simply as having been proven wrong by later information, so no big deal.

Both sides should be intellectually consistent if you want to have an honest debate.

The bottom line is that nobody on either side can point to a police statement as evidence of anything ... they are simply statements, and in order to prove something one way or another you need to see the underlying evidence and basis for these statements (I'm not saying police are obligated to provide this publicly). So all you can say is "assuming the police statement is accurate based on reliable evidence, then . . . "

This is true anywhere in the world with respect to any investigation...police everywhere make public statements for many reasons and with many motivations, which sometimes is to subliminally help them in the investigation, and sometimes is simply a mistake or poor decision. Statements by the police do, however, fairly open what they have said up to public discussion and questioning, so they should be very careful and precise about what they publicly announce.

Nobody in the public has any idea what information the police have access to, what information they have or have not reviewed, or what that information revealed. And the police are not required to make all of that available to the public. But they should be required to make it available to the defense. And the public and media do have a right to point out things that should have been reviewed in the course of a proper investigation.

BTW, to me it appears likely, if police statements at the time were accurate, that the two accused Burmese men and their friend the "witness" were at first considered prime suspects and detained, interrogated, DNA tested, and released within 3 days of the murder ... see news reports, including police statements, around September 18th regarding the 3 Burmese migrant workers who were seen drinking near the crime scene on the night of the murder. These reports don't identify the suspects by name, but there has been no information about anybody else drinking near the crime scene that night ... so I don't know who else it could have been.

So I don't know this for a fact---that would require evidence I don't have access to---but if the police statements at that time were accurate, then it appears that the two men currently in jail were quite possibly cleared at one point as well. (BTW this is separate from the photos of one of the accused standing in line for a DNA test ... ).

Edited October 30, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thai PM says New DNA Tests Can Be Done in British Probe Into Koh Tao Murders

http://www.irrawaddy.org/asia/thai-pm-says-new-dna-tests-can-done-british-probe-koh-tao-murders.html

if DNA was planted on the victims how can this help ?

Yea, Police happened to be caring around semen from both suspects and planted it inside the victim at the crime scene. Then police went around for a month making a joke of themselves by publicly accusing one person after another before landing on the two suspects in custody they intended to setup from the start.

How ridiculous can conspiracy theories get?

Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[jdinasia]

To JD in Asia and JTJ.

Mr Nomsod has said that he was in Bangkok and you clearly believe him. Millions don't. Let him prove it by obtaining his phone records. If he was in BKK it will show. If he was in KT it will show. Important of course to get the right phone, at least the right SIM.

Millions don't? Hyperbole.

2 weeks ago the call was for DNA.

We don't know if the police have gotten a warrant for phone records. If they have, the records would never be released to the public.

[StealthEnergiser]

Thai PM says New DNA Tests Can Be Done in British Probe Into Koh Tao Murders

http://www.irrawaddy.org/asia/thai-pm-says-new-dna-tests-can-done-british-probe-koh-tao-murders.html

if DNA was planted on the victims how can this help ?

Yea, Police happened to be caring around semen from both suspects and planted it inside the victim at the crime scene.

How ridiculous can conspiracy theories get?

where did I mention the police ?

[Mooner]

Apparently police said at the press conference that anyone accusing the boy of being involved in the murders will go to prison for 5 years. That is before they have announced the results of the police DNA test. I guess they already know what the result is going to be just like they were really confident about what the results of the lightening fast DNA tests of the Burmese suspects before they were announced..

In any event there was only two men's DNA reportedly found in the victim but there was condom with the victim's blood on the outside with mysteriously no DNA traces inside it, despite the fact that it was used forcefully enough to make the victim bleed which must be almost unique. Even when the attacker fails to complete his disgusting deed, traces of skin cells and bodily fluids should have been evident, particularly in a such a violent rape.

Of course they know his DNA will not match. They already have the two people in custody whose DNA does match. It would be impossible for his DNA to match too.

Does the DNA match the DNA inside or on Hannah or the murder weapon? If so why does the prosecution keeps sending the case back?

This case is a shambles.