Ex-deputy commerce minister questions credibility of Thai rice loss claims

[webfact]

Ex-deputy commerce minister questions credibility of rice loss claims



BANGKOK: -- Former deputy commerce minister Yanyong Puangrach today questioned the credibility of the recent claim by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha that only 10 percent of the 18 milllion tonnes of rice in stockpiles “bought” under the rice pledging scheme are in good condition, 70 percent are of poor quality and the rest rotten.

He said that the claim was flawed and doubtful, pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

Also, he pointed out that the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

The former deputy commerce minister observed that the prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

Also, he said that the prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/ex-deputy-commerce-minister-questions-credibility-rice-loss-claims/


-- Thai PBS 2014-10-31

[JOC]

Lies, lies, lies!!

Comes as easy as breathing for the PTP-guys!!

[ginjag]

When he said there had been no complaints about the quality of rice sold, he forgot to mention that those sales were from new rice. ????

[GarryP]

Ex-deputy commerce minister questions credibility of rice loss claims

Well he would, wouldn't he?

[somchaismith]

Wow look! Gotta make a TV show about this. Is that a good ghost or evil spirit on his head?

[siampolee]

If one looks closely at the image you can see the background when the hologram was made.

[trogers]

Ahhh...words from the same ministry that claimed they secured a huge sales to China on a G2G deal.

[Robespiere]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

[Baerboxer]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

And the previous PTP regime lied about G2G orders they hadn't really go, assured everyone publicly that there were no quality or quantity issues, refused to release details of alleged sales and proper agreed upon accounts and lied repeatedly to farmers, even getting the non-attending rice committee to personally vow, about when they would be paid. The finance and commerce ministry blamed one another and couldn't or wouldn't agree on the figures.

And you believe everything this PTP government member says must be a true fact.

Please PM me. I have a really nice bridge for sale in London. Give you big discount. You'll love it.

[Robby nz]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

[HUAHIN62]

When he said there had been no complaints about the quality of rice sold, he forgot to mention that those sales were from new rice. ????

If you look at the sales you will know you are incorrect. The deal with China for example is about a 60:40 split. The claims made by the present junta is a safety valve for them and an opportunity for fraud. They now dont need to make any effort to sell the rice at the best price because any loses can be blamed on the previous government. Further more good rice can now be sold at a low price without any question been asked because everyone "know" its bad quality and the percentage tea money just keeps on growing. If you remember after the August audit only 10% of the rice had problems, now 3 months later its 80%.

[Robby nz]

It should be noted that the gent asking these questions is one of those who has been under investigation for some time in regards to corruption within the rice scheme :

The Nation
July 14, 2014 1:00 am

The National Anti-Corruption Commission sub-panel is deeply probing alleged irregularities in the rice-pledging scheme's financial transactions to identify possible nominees linked to five former ministers under investigation, NACC deputy secretary-general Warawit Sukboon said yesterday.

Facing graft probes in connection with the rice-pledging scheme are ex-PM Yingluck Shinawatra, ex-commerce ministers Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan, Boonsong Teriyapirom and Yanyong Phuangrach and former deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol.

Indeed it would seem as one of the 13 he has now been charged along with the previous minister mentioned :

Former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and ex-deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol were charged by the agency, together with 13 other persons including former director-general of the External Trade Department Manas Sroypol who was involved in negotiations to sell rice to two Chinese state enterprises on government-to-government contracts.

He therefor has a good reason as one of the accused to be bring up questions (in his defense).

[Robespiere]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

Lets focus in on FACT 3, the most easily verifiable.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

To which you responded:

Fact 3.

Not true

So explain.....

RICE-PLEDGING SCHEME

'80% of rice is fine'

The Nation July 29, 2014 1:00 am

Only 10 per cent of rice stockpiles has spoiled and only some sacks were missing, while 80 per cent was in still good condition, the rice inspection committee reported to the Rice Policy Committee meeting yesterday.

The audit of 18 million tonnes of pledged rice stored in granaries has progressed by 72 per cent to 1,290 out of 1,787 locations nationwide.

Facts and truth are achilles heels for you Yellows, better to steer clear of them both, my dear chap.

[Robby nz]

When he said there had been no complaints about the quality of rice sold, he forgot to mention that those sales were from new rice. ????

If you look at the sales you will know you are incorrect. The deal with China for example is about a 60:40 split. The claims made by the present junta is a safety valve for them and an opportunity for fraud. They now dont need to make any effort to sell the rice at the best price because any loses can be blamed on the previous government. Further more good rice can now be sold at a low price without any question been asked because everyone "know" its bad quality and the percentage tea money just keeps on growing. If you remember after the August audit only 10% of the rice had problems, now 3 months later its 80%.

From the report :

http://pattayatoday.net/news/thailand-news/yingluck-to-be-probed-ex-ministers-charged-on-rice-scheme/ The anti-graft agency will investigate caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra’s role in the rice pledging scheme after bringing formal charges of corruption against two of her cabinet ministers.

The NACC has found no evidence that the two firms – Guangdong Stationery & Sporting Goods Import & Export Corp, and Hainan Grain & Oil Industrial Trading Co – had been authorised by the Chinese government to buy the rice under the government-to-government scheme. It also found no evidence that the rice had been exported to China.

The NACC investigators excluded Ms Yingluck from its inquiry and concentrated on the persons directly involving in attempts to sell the rice under the scheme.

Anti-graft investigators spent more than one year before reaching the conclusion by questioning more than 100 witnesses and reading more than 10,000 pages of evidence.

Mr Vicha said Ms Yingluck will be called on to defend the case and added that the NACC will try to wrap up the probe on the caretaker prime minister as soon as possible.

Mr Boonsong and Mr Poom and 13 other persons will be summoned to listen to the charges.

In bold for your edification and education "No evidence that the rice had been exported to China"

[Thai at Heart]

These idiots know nothing about this business.

I dare anyone to try to store 20mn tonnes of rice in a warehouse in 30c, 75+ humidity and stop it degrading in 6 months let alone 3 years.

[Robby nz]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

Lets focus in on FACT 3, the most easily verifiable.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

To which you responded:

Fact 3.

Not true

So explain.....

RICE-PLEDGING SCHEME

'80% of rice is fine'

The Nation July 29, 2014 1:00 am

Only 10 per cent of rice stockpiles has spoiled and only some sacks were missing, while 80 per cent was in still good condition, the rice inspection committee reported to the Rice Policy Committee meeting yesterday.

The audit of 18 million tonnes of pledged rice stored in granaries has progressed by 72 per cent to 1,290 out of 1,787 locations nationwide.

Facts and truth are achilles heels for you Yellows, better to steer clear of them both, my dear chap.

You don't get it do you ?

The fact is that 80% is not in good condition as has now been confirmed.

And the other 4 FACTS ?

Laughable that you PT groupies seem to believe that everyone must belong to some gang and support an ideology and party, as you do.

We don't all have a need to belong and are quite capable of independent thought and some of us have taken an interest in the rice scheme and kept data bases of facts, so we do know the truth.

[rubl]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact1. we're not talking about 40 million tonnes replaced, but about 18 million tonnes of which a high percentage is of lower type/quality can the records indicate.

Fact2. pledged paddy was in many cases judged to be of lower quality as farmers seldom got the official RPPS price. Following paddy would be processed into rice and stored. With some warehouses having walls of rice bags around some scaffolding only it would seem warehouse owners / officials should be hold accountable for missing rice / lower type/quality and the government for negligence to properly supervise the 'self-financing' scheme.

Fact3. please check your 'facts' again.

Fact4. please check your 'facts' again.

Fact5. 'he' (i.e. the ex-Dept. MoC) pointed out that the rice sold before was of good quality which has no relation with the rice still in stock. One might even suspect that with 'only' good rice sold the remainder started to consist of a higher percentage of 'lesser' rice.

[rickirs]

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

Lets focus in on FACT 3, the most easily verifiable.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

To which you responded:

Fact 3.

Not true

So explain.....

RICE-PLEDGING SCHEME

'80% of rice is fine'

The Nation July 29, 2014 1:00 am

Only 10 per cent of rice stockpiles has spoiled and only some sacks were missing, while 80 per cent was in still good condition, the rice inspection committee reported to the Rice Policy Committee meeting yesterday.

The audit of 18 million tonnes of pledged rice stored in granaries has progressed by 72 per cent to 1,290 out of 1,787 locations nationwide.

Facts and truth are achilles heels for you Yellows, better to steer clear of them both, my dear chap.

I fear that Gen. Prayut may have misstated the results of the NCPO rice audit by reversing the amount of good rice with the amount of bad rice:

Nationwide rice audit ordered by Junta nearly complete

The Nation 2014-07-28

BANGKOK: -- The nationwide rice audit ordered by the junta is drawing to a close this week as scheduled, raising hopes that the state's mounting rice stockpiles can start to be released and the nightmare is end soon.

“Since the NCPO initiated the inspection early this month, 18 million tonnes of pledged rice in 1,787 granaries around the country have been checked by troops against records for both quantity and quality.”

"Of that, 126 granaries [as of Friday] were found to have irregular rice, and the type of rice in storage was not the same as that listed on the records,"

“… inspections in 14 eastern provinces found few flaws. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonnes in total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.”

[djjamie]

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

Lets focus in on FACT 3, the most easily verifiable.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

To which you responded:

Fact 3.

Not true

So explain.....

RICE-PLEDGING SCHEME

'80% of rice is fine'

The Nation July 29, 2014 1:00 am

Only 10 per cent of rice stockpiles has spoiled and only some sacks were missing, while 80 per cent was in still good condition, the rice inspection committee reported to the Rice Policy Committee meeting yesterday.

The audit of 18 million tonnes of pledged rice stored in granaries has progressed by 72 per cent to 1,290 out of 1,787 locations nationwide.

Facts and truth are achilles heels for you Yellows, better to steer clear of them both, my dear chap.

You don't get it do you ?

The fact is that 80% is not in good condition as has now been confirmed.

And the other 4 FACTS ?

Laughable that you PT groupies seem to believe that everyone must belong to some gang and support an ideology and party, as you do.

We don't all have a need to belong and are quite capable of independent thought and some of us have taken an interest in the rice scheme and kept data bases of facts, so we do know the truth.

As I always say. "Facts" is the PTP's greatest enemy. "Beliefs" is their dearest friend.

The UDD / PTP supporters in Thailand are similar to cult figures in my view in so much as they use a "belief" to further their cause. Use brainwashing and will not dispute facts, but simply overlook them to argue their point. In this case "Fact 3"

Here is another fact he would probably overlook - 13th of September 2013 - "The cabinet approved a total budget of 270 billion baht for the government’s rice pledging schem" said Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Puangraj. He stated this will cover the costs of the scheme up until March, 2014. He lied. Plain and simple…. and this guy questions others credibility.

Of course our dear friend will predictably focus on why I left the "e" out in scheme. Why? It is the most easily verifiable!

[Robespiere]

You don't get it do you ?

The fact is that 80% is not in good condition as has now been confirmed.

And the other 4 FACTS ?

Laughable that you PT groupies seem to believe that everyone must belong to some gang and support an ideology and party, as you do.

We don't all have a need to belong and are quite capable of independent thought and some of us have taken an interest in the rice scheme and kept data bases of facts, so we do know the truth.

I focussed on FACT 3 because the fact that you were plainly and completely wrong could be instantly and irrefutably be proven by simply producing a newspaper article from the time.

Any honest and rational individual, when presented with clear evidence of their erroneous stance, would withdraw and concede their position, dishonest and irrational individuals on the other hand.....

Here's what you don't (or more likely refuse to) get

The ex deputy commerce minister is highlighting the contradiction

1. 1st of August, after inspecting 72% of the rice in storage, 10% was spoiled and 80% of it was declared to be in good condition.

2. 31st of October, now 70% is spoiled and 10% is in good condition

How did such a massive change occur? It would seem the only explanation is dishonesty from the current regime.

What about FACT 4?

Yellow claims that 2 - 3 million tonnes of rice were missing at the height of the protests now turn out to be almost completely false. How does one square away the contradiction? How does 2 - 3 million become 100,000?

Easily, the first figure was an out and out fabrication, 100% propaganda aimed at enabling a coup.

It's quite amusing to go back and re-read the comments made on TVF at the time, how absolutely certain some fools were, with no evidentiary basis at all, that 2 -3 million tonnes of rice was missing because of the evil and nasty "Shins" and their incompetence and corruption.

Time has proven these fools to indeed be fools.... of the highest order.

The NACC is meant to be an independent institution of the state, yet we get the following:

"Bancha called on Vicha to withdraw as an NACC member investigating the case, because he had earlier given an interview at Thammasat University's Rangsit campus in which he said 2 million tonnes of rice have gone missing from warehouses, though the case has not yet been resolved."

You are on the wrong side of history.

Within, at most, a few years, the dam wall is going to break and the old repressive and exploitive system will be washed away forever.

(BTW - goldfish are said to have a 30 second memory, it would seem they have much in common with your personal "data base of facts.")

[Robespiere]

As I always say. "Facts" is the PTP's greatest enemy. "Beliefs" is their dearest friend.

The UDD / PTP supporters in Thailand are similar to cult figures in my view in so much as they use a "belief" to further their cause. Use brainwashing and will not dispute facts, but simply overlook them to argue their point. In this case "Fact 3"

Here is another fact he would probably overlook - 13th of September 2013 - "The cabinet approved a total budget of 270 billion baht for the government’s rice pledging schem" said Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Puangraj. He stated this will cover the costs of the scheme up until March, 2014. He lied. Plain and simple…. and this guy questions others credibility.

Of course our dear friend will predictably focus on why I left the "e" out in scheme. Why? It is the most easily verifiable!

Just to be clear, you are stating, with a straight face, that on the 1st of August the General never said that with 72% of the rice inspected, 80% was in good condition and 10% was in poor condition?

Before you answer, you'd better consult the nearest dictionary as you clearly have the definitions of "facts" and "beliefs" muddled.

BTW: The PTP's greatest enemy is actually soldiers with guns and their greatest friend is democracy.

[Robby nz]

You don't get it do you ?

The fact is that 80% is not in good condition as has now been confirmed.

And the other 4 FACTS ?

Laughable that you PT groupies seem to believe that everyone must belong to some gang and support an ideology and party, as you do.

We don't all have a need to belong and are quite capable of independent thought and some of us have taken an interest in the rice scheme and kept data bases of facts, so we do know the truth.

I focussed on FACT 3 because the fact that you were plainly and completely wrong could be instantly and irrefutably be proven by simply producing a newspaper article from the time.

Any honest and rational individual, when presented with clear evidence of their erroneous stance, would withdraw and concede their position, dishonest and irrational individuals on the other hand.....

Here's what you don't (or more likely refuse to) get

The ex deputy commerce minister is highlighting the contradiction

1. 1st of August, after inspecting 72% of the rice in storage, 10% was spoiled and 80% of it was declared to be in good condition.

2. 31st of October, now 70% is spoiled and 10% is in good condition

How did such a massive change occur? It would seem the only explanation is dishonesty from the current regime.

What about FACT 4?

Yellow claims that 2 - 3 million tonnes of rice were missing at the height of the protests now turn out to be almost completely false. How does one square away the contradiction? How does 2 - 3 million become 100,000?

Easily, the first figure was an out and out fabrication, 100% propaganda aimed at enabling a coup.

It's quite amusing to go back and re-read the comments made on TVF at the time, how absolutely certain some fools were, with no evidentiary basis at all, that 2 -3 million tonnes of rice was missing because of the evil and nasty "Shins" and their incompetence and corruption.

Time has proven these fools to indeed be fools.... of the highest order.

The NACC is meant to be an independent institution of the state, yet we get the following:

"Bancha called on Vicha to withdraw as an NACC member investigating the case, because he had earlier given an interview at Thammasat University's Rangsit campus in which he said 2 million tonnes of rice have gone missing from warehouses, though the case has not yet been resolved."

You are on the wrong side of history.

Within, at most, a few years, the dam wall is going to break and the old repressive and exploitive system will be washed away forever.

(BTW - goldfish are said to have a 30 second memory, it would seem they have much in common with your personal "data base of facts.")

So you are telling that you believe a statement made on 1 August but refuse to believe an update made on 29 October as per ;

BANGKOK: -- Only 10 percent of the 18 million tonnes of rice in stockpiles since June are of good quality and in good condition, 70 percent of them are of poor quality with the grains turn yellowish and the rest 20 percent have become rotten and inedible, said Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha on Tuesday.

Of course PT wanted Vicha out he was and still is doing a great job exposing them and their corruption.

You don't seem to be able to understand that the amount missing from the present storage is not the total that has gone missing over the life of the scheme.

What is in storage now is not all that has been bought, it has been shuffled around, some sold and a lot disappeared a proven case in point although only a comparatively small quantity :

If you bother to read it you will see the links to your hero Thaksin who as you correctly note will be gone in a few years and hopefully his exploitive system with him.

Data bases are very useful when it comes to countering red BS.

Rice kingpin sentenced to six years in jail for B200mn fraud

The Nation / Phuket Gazette

PHUKET: The Samut Prakan provincial court yesterday sentenced a rice businessman reportedly close to former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to six years in jail and fined him Bt12,000 after finding him guilty of embezzlement and fraud for his failure to deliver a Bt200-million broken-rice shipment to Iran.

The defendant, 50-year-old Apichat Chansakulporn, alias Sia Pieng, the managing director of the now-bankrupt President Agri Co, was prosecuted by the Office of the Attorney General on embezzlement charges. The court was told the fraud took place when his company failed to deliver 20,000 tonnes of 5-per-cent broken rice to Iran in 2007.

President Agri Trading was Thailand's leading rice exporter during 2003-04, when Wattana Muangsuk was a minister of Commerce during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration. Apichat reportedly was close to Wattana and Thaksin.

During Watta-na's stint as commerce minister, President Agri won a bid for 1.79 million tonnes of rice from the government's stocks for export to Indonesia. It was one of the biggest quantities sold by the Commerce Ministry to a private rice exporter. Later, President Agri Trading went bankrupt in 2010.

Apichat was allegedly associated with Siam Indica, a company that secured some rice deals from the Yingluck Shinawatra government as well. The court said the defendant had violated the contract signed with the Commerce Ministry and embezzled the rice, which his company was contracted to deliver to Iran.

Samut Prakan provincial court chief justice Awirut Chanchai-kittikorn said that as the managing director of President Agri Co, Apichat had sole authority in carrying out the company's business transactions. His defence that he had no intention to commit the offences carried no weight.

Awirut said Foreign Trade Department director-general, Apiradee Tantraporn had also testified that Apichat had contracted with the department to "rebuild" the rice.

The Commerce Ministry had entered into a government-to-government contract to sell 5 per cent broken rice to Iran. Apichat's company was allowed to rebuild 10 per cent [add a higher grade] of the broken rice to the 5 per cent broken rice being shipped to Iran.

In the rice industry, exporters employed to rebuild rice will earn margins from the price difference between the two grades of rice.

Sia Pieng twice failed to rebuild and ship the rice at the port, which led to the Thai government being fined and its deposits confiscated by Iran. The embezzlement and fraud offences carry three years imprisonment each. The court also ordered Apichat to deliver the rice to the damaged party. Sia Pieng denied the charges and deposited Bt2 million in assets to be granted bail. He has appealed against his sentence.

Sia Pieng was earlier revealed by former Democrat MP Warong Dechgitvigrom as the key man behind the rice-pledging scheme, who had travelled to China several times with Thaksin.

The Thailand Development Research Institute has exposed corruption in the rice-pledging scheme, with estimated losses in the past two years exceeding Bt450 billion.

And another small quantity, they do all add up :

BANGKOK: -- The Chaiyaphum Provincial Court has sentenced a rice miller to serve 20 years in prison and nine farmers six months after finding them in rice pledging fraud conspiracy involving the missing of 750 tonnes of paddy and rice from government stocks.

[metisdead]

Off topic obfuscation posts and replies have been removed.

[djjamie]

As I always say. "Facts" is the PTP's greatest enemy. "Beliefs" is their dearest friend.

The UDD / PTP supporters in Thailand are similar to cult figures in my view in so much as they use a "belief" to further their cause. Use brainwashing and will not dispute facts, but simply overlook them to argue their point. In this case "Fact 3"

Here is another fact he would probably overlook - 13th of September 2013 - "The cabinet approved a total budget of 270 billion baht for the government’s rice pledging schem" said Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Puangraj. He stated this will cover the costs of the scheme up until March, 2014. He lied. Plain and simple…. and this guy questions others credibility.

Of course our dear friend will predictably focus on why I left the "e" out in scheme. Why? It is the most easily verifiable!

Just to be clear, you are stating, with a straight face, that on the 1st of August the General never said that with 72% of the rice inspected, 80% was in good condition and 10% was in poor condition?

Before you answer, you'd better consult the nearest dictionary as you clearly have the definitions of "facts" and "beliefs" muddled.

BTW: The PTP's greatest enemy is actually soldiers with guns and their greatest friend is democracy.

BTW: The PTP's greatest enemy is actually soldiers with guns and their greatest friend is democracy.

Well, one principle of it anyway.

[billd766]

These idiots know nothing about this business.

I dare anyone to try to store 20mn tonnes of rice in a warehouse in 30c, 75+ humidity and stop it degrading in 6 months let alone 3 years.

The PTP did.

[Thai at Heart]

These idiots know nothing about this business.

I dare anyone to try to store 20mn tonnes of rice in a warehouse in 30c, 75+ humidity and stop it degrading in 6 months let alone 3 years.

The PTP did.

Impossible.

The point is, nothing got replaced or changed at all. This degradation would happen due to natural causes not importing or cheating numbers.

[billd766]

These idiots know nothing about this business.

I dare anyone to try to store 20mn tonnes of rice in a warehouse in 30c, 75+ humidity and stop it degrading in 6 months let alone 3 years.

The PTP did.

Impossible.

The point is, nothing got replaced or changed at all. This degradation would happen due to natural causes not importing or cheating numbers.

What is impossible about it?

The PTP government paid over the odds for the rice in the first place and had nowhere to store it so they turned to the rice millers and storage facilities to store it.

The millers and storage people said that they can do that for a price which by the way is STILL being paid.

If the facilities were not good enough to store the rice for 6 months let alone 3 years who should take the responsibility for that?

The millers and storage places or the government for not doing due diligence and KNOWING that the storage facilities were inadequate? If the government didbn't know and had no idea then why did they not ask for the proper facilities. Of course they may have been assured by the millers and storers that everything would be OK. Either the government or the millers and storers or both didn't have a clue and lied or they did know and lied anyway.

At the end of the day why SHOULD the Thai people have to foot the bill for this enormously costly mistake, error or screwup?

[Thai at Heart]

These idiots know nothing about this business.

I dare anyone to try to store 20mn tonnes of rice in a warehouse in 30c, 75+ humidity and stop it degrading in 6 months let alone 3 years.

The PTP did.

Impossible.

The point is, nothing got replaced or changed at all. This degradation would happen due to natural causes not importing or cheating numbers.

What is impossible about it?

The PTP government paid over the odds for the rice in the first place and had nowhere to store it so they turned to the rice millers and storage facilities to store it.

The millers and storage people said that they can do that for a price which by the way is STILL being paid.

If the facilities were not good enough to store the rice for 6 months let alone 3 years who should take the responsibility for that?

The millers and storage places or the government for not doing due diligence and KNOWING that the storage facilities were inadequate? If the government didbn't know and had no idea then why did they not ask for the proper facilities. Of course they may have been assured by the millers and storers that everything would be OK. Either the government or the millers and storers or both didn't have a clue and lied or they did know and lied anyway.

At the end of the day why SHOULD the Thai people have to foot the bill for this enormously costly mistake, error or screwup?

People claiming that 20mn tonnes has been switched is silly though.

This then gets to the nub of accusing yingluck singly of corruption. Apparently no one knew that the stuff would turn yellow and degrade in the warehouse. Did she?

Its a screw up and a mess. The negligence may have been to embark on that policy at a without enough storage, but it is largely impossible to store anything on this scale and not have some quality losses.

If so, who was negligent?