What's your plan for when your 2nd/3rd waiver expires?

[SlyAnimal]

At present, foreign teachers with a non-Education degree are permitted 2x temporary teacher's licenses, possibly a 3rd if they're at the same school, have done their Thai Culture Course and/or are studying towards a BEdu.

After which, we can no longer legally teach in Thailand.

Previously there were teacher's licence exams which we could sit, and once passed, obtain a full teacher's licence. These were last conducted almost 2 years ago, and from what I gather, aren't going to be resumed.

To the best of my knowledge Krusapa/Teacher's Council of Thailand/TCT haven't yet announced an alternative pathway for foreign teachers (other than obtaining a BEdu).

Although Thai teacher's can study ปบัณฑิต (Pronounced Bor-Ban-Dit), part time for one year while working at a school, in order to obtain their licence. I'm not sure if there is a similar course setup in Thailand for foreigners (e.g. Taught in English or Chinese).

Thus, unless Krusapa announces something new, then once our 2nd/3rd waivers expire, teaching legally will enter a grey area for some (Ppl on marriage extensions may still be able to get WPs without waivers, as the DoL is relaxed), while others may be unable to get extensions of stay from immigration without a waiver/licence.

This combined with the immigration crackdown on visa runs may make legally staying in Thailand impossible for many teachers.

Admittedly I had heard that Krusapa was meant to announce something in late Sept, but didn't hear about anything (Other than modifications to their website which caused database access problems).

So what are you guys intending on doing?

I've got 1 waiver left (milked my first for 3 years and am now on a 1 year break from teaching), but have a marriage extension anyway. However I'm still concerned about my own future as I like to do things "by the book".

As a result I want to find out if there are 1 year courses in Thailand, which are taught in English, which can just be studied on weekends and grant a full teacher's licence. Alternatively I'm thinking about trying to do one in Thai (Although I'd need to study hard + improve my Thai a lotttt lol). I figure either would also make me a better teacher, as well as preparing me for the future in Thailand (And it might be fun).

I was thinking about a masters instead, but from what I gather, and correct me if I'm wrong, a masters in Education/Education Administration doesn't give a full teacher's license. So I don't think this is an option.

I think that graduate diplomas in teaching from foreign universities are also accepted, and some courses are available online/via correspondence.

There are of course under the table options aswell.

Krusapa will likely bring out "something" for foreigners with degrees from outside the faculty of Education, as requiring all foreign teachers to have a BEdu would create a massive shortage of legal teachers, especially with the visa crackdown. But will you trust in Krusapa to bring out something, or are you already making alternative plans?

[rct99q]

i have commented on a few posts and would be interested to know how many people are in the same situation as i was in as it relates in part to your post.

i worked for a school for four years, no degree, yet received a valid work permit. i was living in thailand on an Imm o based on married to a thai. i was near nong khai and know of at least 10 others in similar situation. in all the time at the school they did not apply for or even attempt to get the waiver (license). I am aware of several teachers working for a well known company that have employed teachers without any back ground checks as well as no formal education who have received extensions and work permits.

I truly believe, in rural areas mostly, that they follow their own set of rules. One school in nong song hong outside of Udon Thani has for years hired whomever they wanted with or without qualifications and provided extensions & work permits without involving tct.

I am sure in Bangkok and popular tourist places it is much different but I too would be interested to know what, if anything, teachers in the far northeast are planning to do if things change.

[Mario2008]

Currently there are not much options left. I am lucky I was able to obtain a teaching license as I have been teaching since 2000.

My understanding from the TCT (August this year) is that new rules will be announced end of this year, start of next year and the rules will be tightened. But of course we do now have a new Education Minister, which often means adjustments of the original plans. But it is clear they have to act soon. Now everything is at a standstill.

[Yooyung]

I am halfway through my first waiver BUT I am now going to a new school. I am married.....so things are a little less stressful. However, I do like to do things legally. I have a degree from an Australian university BUT its not in Ed. I have mulled over this problem for quite some time. I have whittled my options down to about 4...give or take. I will be undertaking one of the options by the start of 2015:

1) Master in Bilingual Eduction at Rangsit uni. This uni is near my home, the program is taught on weekends ( 3 Saturdays and also an additional Sunday per month) The cost isnt bad at around 150,000 for the (approximately) 18 months of study. I actually went there for an interview the other day and got a good feeling about it. The lady I spoke with was very competent and polite, she answered all my questions in more than a satisfactory way.....flawless English. Ok...so its NOT Oxford BUT its a recognised uni in Thailand and, as far as I am aware either a Masters level in Ed OR perhaps....a Grad diploma in Ed is enough to satisfy Karusapah.....This program is number one on my list because the program looks about as relevant as you can get ( I feel I will benefit from it), its near my home and the cost is within the ballpark of what I think is reasonable. I am VERY close to signing up and starting this course early next year. Infact, unless I have a brain fart, I will be applying this week. Here it is:

http://www2.rsu.ac.th/files/education.pdf

2) UniTEFL teaching diploma. This course is from a uni in the Philipinnes. According to this organisation the course is approved to get you a teaching licence here....and also a waiver while you study it ( totally online). It seems it was offered to Philipinos only before, but now they are opening a course specifically for farangs. I am tempted by this course, but it is as yet and unknown quantity. If it works it could be a very good alternative. The problem also is that no one has ever heard of it. In my mind I would rather have a qualification from a known Thai uni that will also get me a teachers licence, rather than one that will get me the licence, but that no employer will ever have heard of. My gut feeling is that the program will deliver on what it promises....I am not sure I want to be the guinea pig to test it though. This program is about 100,000 Baht for the year (not bad if it delivers) Here it is:

http://www.unitefl.com/tefl-courses/new-era/

3) Assumption Uni (ABAC) Masters in teaching and technology. This is also a fully online program from a well known Thai uni. I have had communications with them over the last 3 or 4 months. I have been impressed with them and think the program would have real benefit....but, for me the Rangsit program suits my needs more. Also, I have studied online before in Australia and know how hard it can be. I would rather be in a face to face situation now. However, I am sure this program would suit some peoples needs. From memory the cost is over 250,000 Baht....getting up there....Here it is:

http://www.graduate.au.edu/download/content/file/general/Brochures/CIDE/MED%20Tech%20Teaching.pdf

Nottingham/ Sunderland unis. I have looked into these two unis and they are obviously fully above board....accredited rah raha rah...Nottingham offers a PGCEi that is a post graduate qualification. Its fully online and testing can be done in Bangkok. It goes for about a year and is about 3000 Pounds. I have heard of some that have done the course and got teachers licences. Again, for me studying online is not what I want now but this course seems pretty good. Here it is:

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/prospective/pgcei/bangkok.aspx

Sunderland Uni offers a Masters in TESOL....Its over 6000 pounds all up. Its obviously fully online. Silly thing is I have heard that it WOULDNT be accepted as its not in EDUCATION???? Well, it is....but...god knows how the brains of Karusapah work! This program looks great but again, for me, working fulltime and studying online at this level could get very very heavy. I know someone that is doing this course at the moment and working fulltime. Here it is:

http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/courses/educationandsociety/postgraduate/tesol-distance-learning/

Others that I have looked into include Thammasat Uni's Master in TEFL. I also think this is a great option and I am strongly considering it. The program starts in August, whereas Rangsit I can start in January. Thammasat has a better name though....

http://englishgradtu.com/index.php? option=com_content&view=article&id=111&Itemid=8

Ok, at the end of the day, for me studying at a Thai uni is ok. I am married and have a child here. Out of all the options I have seen, I have come to the conclusion that studying at a brick and mortar, recognised Thai uni is my best option. For others the online quals from England will be a better option. The Philipino Grad Dip is a bit of a wildcard....but if you just want to be eligable for a teaching licence it may fit the bill.

Anway, thats what I have come up with in my investigations. Goodluck to all. For us long timers this situation is a bit of a pain but I think there ARE options that arent too unreasonable.

[brianp0803]

Assumption university Hua Maak in Bkk has a M. Ed in curriculum and instructions offered after school attending classes.

Enrollment in the M.Ed. will qualify for another waiver.

They will come and observe some of your classes and teachers at your school will also observe and send reports.

You are expected to be teaching while in the program.

[EmptyHead]

No plans.

It ain't gonna work. They will have to relax their rules. Simple as that.

[brianp0803]

If you have time then wait and see what happens.

Many teachers lost the ability to get work permits with the limit on waivers to 2.

Their choices:

Leave Thailand

Work illegally using other visa options

Start an expensive time consuming degree program to continue to get waivers

[aarontendo]

Teaching degree done, just waiting to do a culture course I guess...clock is ticking heh. No big deal honestly, plenty of other nations to check out as well!

[aarontendo]

I am halfway through my first waiver BUT I am now going to a new school. I am married.....so things are a little less stressful. However, I do like to do things legally. I have a degree from an Australian university BUT its not in Ed. I have mulled over this problem for quite some time. I have whittled my options down to about 4...give or take. I will be undertaking one of the options by the start of 2015:

1) Master in Bilingual Eduction at Rangsit uni. This uni is near my home, the program is taught on weekends ( 3 Saturdays and also an additional Sunday per month) The cost isnt bad at around 150,000 for the (approximately) 18 months of study. I actually went there for an interview the other day and got a good feeling about it. The lady I spoke with was very competent and polite, she answered all my questions in more than a satisfactory way.....flawless English. Ok...so its NOT Oxford BUT its a recognised uni in Thailand and, as far as I am aware either a Masters level in Ed OR perhaps....a Grad diploma in Ed is enough to satisfy Karusapah.....This program is number one on my list because the program looks about as relevant as you can get ( I feel I will benefit from it), its near my home and the cost is within the ballpark of what I think is reasonable. I am VERY close to signing up and starting this course early next year. Infact, unless I have a brain fart, I will be applying this week. Here it is:

http://www2.rsu.ac.th/files/education.pdf

2) UniTEFL teaching diploma. This course is from a uni in the Philipinnes. According to this organisation the course is approved to get you a teaching licence here....and also a waiver while you study it ( totally online). It seems it was offered to Philipinos only before, but now they are opening a course specifically for farangs. I am tempted by this course, but it is as yet and unknown quantity. If it works it could be a very good alternative. The problem also is that no one has ever heard of it. In my mind I would rather have a qualification from a known Thai uni that will also get me a teachers licence, rather than one that will get me the licence, but that no employer will ever have heard of. My gut feeling is that the program will deliver on what it promises....I am not sure I want to be the guinea pig to test it though. This program is about 100,000 Baht for the year (not bad if it delivers) Here it is:

http://www.unitefl.com/tefl-courses/new-era/

3) Assumption Uni (ABAC) Masters in teaching and technology. This is also a fully online program from a well known Thai uni. I have had communications with them over the last 3 or 4 months. I have been impressed with them and think the program would have real benefit....but, for me the Rangsit program suits my needs more. Also, I have studied online before in Australia and know how hard it can be. I would rather be in a face to face situation now. However, I am sure this program would suit some peoples needs. From memory the cost is over 250,000 Baht....getting up there....Here it is:

http://www.graduate.au.edu/download/content/file/general/Brochures/CIDE/MED%20Tech%20Teaching.pdf

Nottingham/ Sunderland unis. I have looked into these two unis and they are obviously fully above board....accredited rah raha rah...Nottingham offers a PGCEi that is a post graduate qualification. Its fully online and testing can be done in Bangkok. It goes for about a year and is about 3000 Pounds. I have heard of some that have done the course and got teachers licences. Again, for me studying online is not what I want now but this course seems pretty good. Here it is:

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/prospective/pgcei/bangkok.aspx

Sunderland Uni offers a Masters in TESOL....Its over 6000 pounds all up. Its obviously fully online. Silly thing is I have heard that it WOULDNT be accepted as its not in EDUCATION???? Well, it is....but...god knows how the brains of Karusapah work! This program looks great but again, for me, working fulltime and studying online at this level could get very very heavy. I know someone that is doing this course at the moment and working fulltime. Here it is:

http://www.sunderland.ac.uk/courses/educationandsociety/postgraduate/tesol-distance-learning/

Others that I have looked into include Thammasat Uni's Master in TEFL. I also think this is a great option and I am strongly considering it. The program starts in August, whereas Rangsit I can start in January. Thammasat has a better name though....

http://englishgradtu.com/index.php? option=com_content&view=article&id=111&Itemid=8

Ok, at the end of the day, for me studying at a Thai uni is ok. I am married and have a child here. Out of all the options I have seen, I have come to the conclusion that studying at a brick and mortar, recognised Thai uni is my best option. For others the online quals from England will be a better option. The Philipino Grad Dip is a bit of a wildcard....but if you just want to be eligable for a teaching licence it may fit the bill.

Anway, thats what I have come up with in my investigations. Goodluck to all. For us long timers this situation is a bit of a pain but I think there ARE options that arent too unreasonable.

Top quality work here Yooyung thank you for putting this up.

Also want to say that as far as I know Framingham State College (M.Ed International Teaching) from MA has cohorts that are almost always running here in BKK. Problem with those is you're outta luck if your schedule doesn't line up with the school hosting it (Wells I believe is running one or two cohorts). Cost is around $450 USD a class, with the degree taking 9 classes I believe.

[brianp0803]

I have a master's degree in computer science and teach high school math but told I need a education degree to continue to get work permit.

On other threads people are wanting to be teachers, with similar salaries, with no degree.

Amazing and frustrating.

My only consolation is after getting my M. ED degree I should have many legal options to teach until age 65 or older.

A M. Ed in curriculum and instructions at Assumption cost about 5 months salary but provides much better job security at higher salaries for the next 10-15 years.

Their program assume you are teaching during the day.

[attrayant]

No plans.

It ain't gonna work. They will have to relax their rules. Simple as that.

Same here. My school likes me so it'll be up to them how much effort they want to put into keeping me. I'm a subject teacher (math & science) and will be hard to replace unless they're satisfied with somebody who gives students handouts printed from Wikipedia**. But by god he'll have a teaching degree and that's what's important!

I'll most likely switch to a retirement extension and become one of those mysterious digital nomads. I still have contacts from the US sending me emails from time to time asking if I'm available to do technical document review and editing. Hopefully that will still be an option when I stop teaching.

** I'm not kidding about that either - I saw some of the teaching plans of the teacher I replaced. At least 80% copy & pasted from Wiki, and the homework and worksheets were mostly crossword puzzles and word searches.

[brianp0803]

I teach calculus.

I am not sure how many credentialed teachers in Thailand will be able to teach calculus at private schools for the salary offered.

The school doesn't control work permits.

If you have your own extension of stay for retirement then probably your school would continue to let you teach.

I heard rumors this is happening more often due to difficulties finding qualified teachers.

[RPCVguy]

I'm a retired teacher from the USA.While glad to see that there is an effort to have some level of accountability for teaching, I also know that for a native speaker to teach English here is not as reliant upon training as it would be for other subjects. Can the person lead a class? Maintain interest? Transfer practical skills of the language? Upgrade the spoken English in the Teacher's lounge? Be supportive of the social fabric?
For an example of global standards, Peace Corps Volunteers are often placed as requested to fill positions being English teachers merely for having a bachelor's degree. It a volunteer had indeed obtained a degree in education, they would generally be placed overseas at a teacher training college - sharing their training techniques with future teachers.

Last year my step-graddaughter had a teacher who had majored in English and German while getting a bachelors at Amherst. He was a huge success and was offered a contract by the director - except he'd been hired via an agency and was prohibited from taking the school's offer. Now he has left Thailand for Jakarta. Thailand's loss, Jakarta's gain. All the benefits of having him get his initial teaching experience now has left Thailand.

[tonray]

I'm a retired teacher from the USA.While glad to see that there is an effort to have some level of accountability for teaching, I also know that for a native speaker to teach English here is not as reliant upon training as it would be for other subjects. Can the person lead a class? Maintain interest? Transfer practical skills of the language? Upgrade the spoken English in the Teacher's lounge? Be supportive of the social fabric?

For an example of global standards, Peace Corps Volunteers are often placed as requested to fill positions being English teachers merely for having a bachelor's degree. It a volunteer had indeed obtained a degree in education, they would generally be placed overseas at a teacher training college - sharing their training techniques with future teachers.

Last year my step-graddaughter had a teacher who had majored in English and German while getting a bachelors at Amherst. He was a huge success and was offered a contract by the director - except he'd been hired via an agency and was prohibited from taking the school's offer. Now he has left Thailand for Jakarta. Thailand's loss, Jakarta's gain. All the benefits of having him get his initial teaching experience now has left Thailand.

Didn't I read somewhere that in Jakarta you need the school's permission to exit the country ? So if you get in a bad situation, they can literally keep you in Indonesia as long as they want and you have little recourse....hardly an ideal switch.

I myself plan on heading to Korea for a few years once the waiver expires...bank a little $$ and then back to Thailand for a retirement visa.

[jamhar]

I'm new to Teaching in Thailand....

Reading the above,

Looks like i may have to leave the country.

I'd better start planning now.

PS, thanks for the heads up. I didn't even realize there was

1) a requirement for an Ed Diploma.

2) a waiver existed for the requirement

3) there was a limitation on the waivers

[jacksam]

Yes I'm so sad ......all the unqualified teachers (code for couldn't even do modern day rubbish degree) have to move to Vietnam. Drink with the losers calling themselves teachers ......

[jamhar]

Yes I'm so sad ......all the unqualified teachers (code for couldn't even do modern day rubbish degree) have to move to Vietnam. Drink with the losers calling themselves teachers ......

So, how are you finding Vietnam?

[brianp0803]

I'm new to Teaching in Thailand....

Reading the above,

Looks like i may have to leave the country.

I'd better start planning now.

PS, thanks for the heads up. I didn't even realize there was

1) a requirement for an Ed Diploma.

2) a waiver existed for the requirement

3) there was a limitation on the waivers

I think the goal was always to have credentialed teachers but not realistic.

Waivers always existed but were automatic and unlimited. An ambiguous clause about continuous improvement and effort to comply (take TCT tests ) to get another waiver.

Now 2 waivers (3 if at same school as 2nd waiver) is the limit.

Then clear the way for inexperienced teachers to replace you (Unless you get your education degree)

[brianp0803]

Yes I'm so sad ......all the unqualified teachers (code for couldn't even do modern day rubbish degree) have to move to Vietnam. Drink with the losers calling themselves teachers ......

I get confused people with any degree claim possible to get a job teaching (probably illegally).

This implies a shortage of teachers.

But, teachers with master's degree in other fields can't get work permits after successfully teaching for 4 years.

[smotherb]

No plans.

It ain't gonna work. They will have to relax their rules. Simple as that.

Or, they could just get rid of the lot of you and the Thais would not speak English well. Oh, wait . . . .

[smotherb]

I teach calculus.

I am not sure how many credentialed teachers in Thailand will be able to teach calculus at private schools for the salary offered.

The school doesn't control work permits.

If you have your own extension of stay for retirement then probably your school would continue to let you teach.

I heard rumors this is happening more often due to difficulties finding qualified teachers.

Well, there just aren't that many Native Calculus Speakers.

[mikecat]

Yes I'm so sad ......all the unqualified teachers (code for couldn't even do modern day rubbish degree) have to move to Vietnam. Drink with the losers calling themselves teachers ......

Some people are just sad. Full stop.

[Billiam]

I changed my job title from teacher to English skills instructor!

[Fullstop]

PS, thanks for the heads up. I didn't even realize there was

1) a requirement for an Ed Diploma.

2) a waiver existed for the requirement

3) there was a limitation on the waivers

Neither did I until a few months ago. I worked for 1 school for 4 years and another school before that for 2 years. They applied for waivers for me but said absolutely nothing about it to me. I only found out about the whole thing 3 months ago when I started at a new school. The old "crap communication" between schools and foreign teachers really outdid itself.

Right now I am sitting in the @Border Hotel in Aranyapratet. Will be crossing over to Cambodia in 2 hours to start from scratch there.

I've been with a Thai lady for 2 years now. Marriage was on the cards. Thank God it did not happen.

Is there any other country in the World with wages as stagnant and low as Thailand that demands an Ed Degree for foreign TEFL teachers? Not as far as I know. What does this mean? The TCT are a bunch of tosspots . Simple as that.

Bye Thailand. Replace me with an inexperienced backpacker and continue the cycle until there are hardly any foreign teachers with more than 4 years experience. Good plan!

Idiots.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Fullstop

[thequietman]

I will quit at the end of my contract. I have been with this school for 4 years already and it's enough. I will try to get a position with a school that is not covered by Krusapa or maybe a school who are willing to change my job title.

If not, I will take a year off and finish my masters degree and then look outside Thailand. I really don't understand the need for a BA in Education. The Thai teachers who are my co-teachers (but never attend) do not have to have a BA in Education. They need a degree and then do ongoing training and testing. I am teaching conversation, not history, not math, not science, not geography and certainly not religion/social studies.

I have a BA, a BS and will have my MBA soon. I have a 120 hour TEFL and a Business TEFL. I have the Thai Culture course. I have 7 years experience and various diploma's in English language and literature and I am still not qualified in TCT's eyes. Amazing Thailand indeed.

[lostinisaan]

My third provisional TL is valid until August 2016. Then I might become a monk and pray..........

Edited November 4, 2014 by lostinisaan

[Andrew65]

PS, thanks for the heads up. I didn't even realize there was

1) a requirement for an Ed Diploma.

2) a waiver existed for the requirement

3) there was a limitation on the waivers

Neither did I until a few months ago. I worked for 1 school for 4 years and another school before that for 2 years. They applied for waivers for me but said absolutely nothing about it to me. I only found out about the whole thing 3 months ago when I started at a new school. The old "crap communication" between schools and foreign teachers really outdid itself.

Right now I am sitting in the @Border Hotel in Aranyapratet. Will be crossing over to Cambodia in 2 hours to start from scratch there.

I've been with a Thai lady for 2 years now. Marriage was on the cards. Thank God it did not happen.

Is there any other country in the World with wages as stagnant and low as Thailand that demands an Ed Degree for foreign TEFL teachers? Not as far as I know. What does this mean? The TCT are a bunch of tosspots . Simple as that.

Bye Thailand. Replace me with an inexperienced backpacker and continue the cycle until there are hardly any foreign teachers with more than 4 years experience. Good plan!

Idiots.

I hear from teacher friends that Vietnam can be a better option in many ways.

[Fullstop]

^ Cambodia is possibly just a first stop. Just wanted to get Thailand behind me. China looks OK at the moment too. 70-80k Baht, free apartment etc. <deleted>## Thailand.

[lostinisaan]

^ Cambodia is possibly just a first stop. Just wanted to get Thailand behind me. China looks OK at the moment too. 70-80k Baht, free apartment etc. <deleted>## Thailand.

The only problem I have regarding teaching in China is that there're too many Chinese people in this country.

I've seen some quality tourists in Chonburi, spitting inside a pool. What bugged me was that my family and i tried to make some rounds.

And i wanna produce more than one child.

[brianp0803]

I agree that people teaching basic English conversation and grammar don't need an education degree.

TCT and schools consider a TEFL teacher and the NES calculus teacher all teachers.

Qualifications and salary are similar.

Should TEFL teachers have lower requirements than subject teachers?

If the requirements for subject teacher is a degree in education then should their salaries correspondenly be higher?