'Agent's' commision 'deal' on sale - fair or not?

[rayinkrabi]

HI, we all know that there are many people here who are keen to help find a buyer for your house, for a % of course, (usually 2 or 3%), in my experience most of these are simply locals (not professional estate agents) who are hoping to make quick easy money. I have no problem with this, but I do have a problem with some who also insist on pocketing any money over and above the asking price if it could be achieved.

I've half heartedly had my place up for sale for some time, initially at an optimistically high price (insisted upon by the lady), then reduced it to a more realistic figure, and have now reduced it further to the point where it would be a genuine bargain to any buyer as the asking price is not much more than the going cost of empty land here.

As a result, I've had a lot of 'agents' turn up offering their help, the latest clearly think they can squeeze a few million more out of 'farang' (first showing tomorrow) and have made it clear to my gf that they expect to keep any extra (if achieved) and even asked her to sign a contract to that effect. She see's nothing wrong in this and simply screams at me that I know nothing about business (I actually spent many boring years studying Business & Finance in England amongst other subjects).

Whats your opinion on this? I should add that if I get the price I'm now asking the 'agents' will receive a healthy 240k, a good payday for any Thai I would have thought.

[bkkjames]

Forget them, spend some time / money advertising it yourself. I see this quite often in the classifieds on here and other farang oriented sites, it appears (I could be wrong) that rental properties in particular are "marked up" by an agent in the hopes some gullible person comes along. Sure there are some good agents out there.... Deal with a reputable agency if you are going to at all. Forget the freelancers.

Run some online ads. Put your price out there for all to see. If some agent has a buyer then they should accept the 3% or whatever the commission is your are offering...nothing more.

The way I see it is this: If someone had xx million baht to spend on a house, best they come direct to you. I could imagine an agent doesn't really care about which property they sell to the guy - just as long as they buy something. Would they push a potential client towards more lucrative incentives for themselves if all else being equal?

Sure you will get the usual "we weed out the serious buyers from door kickers.... speech if you list with us" but suffice to say, if your property is priced 'to sell', you won't have a hard time attracting serious buyers. But if you are hoping for dreamland prices, you could be with your property for awhile.

[KittenKong]

"As a result, I've had a lot of 'agents' turn up offering their help, the latest clearly think they can squeeze a few million more out of 'farang' (first showing tomorrow) and have made it clear to my gf that they expect to keep any extra (if achieved) and even asked her to sign a contract to that effect."

An extremely common scam here that many people are unaware of. In fact I would say it probably happens more often than not and is one of the reasons that asking prices are so absurdly high yet very low offers will often be accepted.

Is there anything more dishonest than an estate agent in Thailand?

[konying]

Why do not you grow a pair of balls and make your own decisions .

1. If agent will sell above your asking price , then he gets % off that sale price

2. If agent does not like it, you show him the door.

3. If you unable to grow a pair of balls , tell agent if it's sold above your asking price , agent gets 0%, because he/she already made the money.

4. If you studied business as you claim , spend 15 mins on thinking and advertise yourself across all possible channels.

[binnsy1]

Tell the buyer that the price is X and that is job done.The buyer will not pay above X unless he /she is stupid anyway you get the amount you are happy with.3% seems to be the rate for sales.

[KittenKong]

The buyer and seller dont necessarily know what the agent is doing. In fact the buyer and seller may never even meet.

[rayinkrabi]

Thanks for your thoughts, except kony who is well out of order but we all know there are a few like him/her on this forum. I only mentioned that part of my background to stress how silly my gf's comment was, but there again, she did make the point that they 'do it differently' in Thailand.

Over the years I've had quite a few Thai and Europeans marketing this place, all with the agreement of between 2 & 3%. Yet another fellow countryman rubbed his hands together and with a big smile asked me if I "mind that he takes the extra" (as well as commission) on top of my bottom line price that I had confided in him. I obviously told him where to go and to my knowledge he never sold a single property in all the years he was masquerading as a Real Estate Agent.

All have insisted on asking way too much, I went along with them at the time as I was in no hurry and interested to 'test the water' as it's not easy to get a benchmark figure here. I would have been delighted to he proved wrong but enough is enough.

[rayinkrabi]

The buyer and seller dont necessarily know what the agent is doing. In fact the buyer and seller may never even meet.

Correct, I've had some just turn up unannounced with prospective buyers in tow, funny thing is, not only were they all complete strangers but the 'agent' knew absolutely nothing about my house, unless of course he simply keeps an eye on the classified ad's as I suspect.

Edit: sry, I misread and thought you were referring to the agent & seller. I agree with your point if the property is unoccupied but not likely if, as in my case, it's your main residence as the buyer would surely want to have a good look around and the seller should always be present.

I do concede however, that I would not interfere during the viewing and leave the agent to do his marketing stuff IF I thought he/she was professional enough.

Edited November 2, 2014 by rayinkrabi

[slipperx]

"As a result, I've had a lot of 'agents' turn up offering their help, the latest clearly think they can squeeze a few million more out of 'farang' (first showing tomorrow) and have made it clear to my gf that they expect to keep any extra (if achieved) and even asked her to sign a contract to that effect."

An extremely common scam here that many people are unaware of. In fact I would say it probably happens more often than not and is one of the reasons that asking prices are so absurdly high yet very low offers will often be accepted.

Is there anything more dishonest than an estate agent in Thailand?

Yes a Thai lawyer - especially in Phuket

[casualbiker]

Over the years!!! How long have you been selling this place?

It's not the 18 million baht place that looks like a condo block is it?

[trogers]

The buyer and seller dont necessarily know what the agent is doing. In fact the buyer and seller may never even meet.

The sales and purchase contract would state the price of the sales...

A buyer would need such a contract before paying a deposit.

[rayinkrabi]

"It's not the 18 million baht place that looks like a condo block is it?"

No, but it was advertised some years back at a ridiculously high price at the insistence of my greedy gf who eventually agreed to my idea of pricing realistically. I wasn't worried at the time as I was in no hurry and quite expected the market to improve. Things have changed and I would now like to move on asap so I've re-posted the ad on Thai Visa and intend to do the same on many others later today. it'll be interesting to see how things pan out.

Btw, yet more hopeful 'agents' turned up just half ago, seems like the word is going round that they can make 'easy commission' 'cos of the low asking price, and Yes, I do make the asking price clear to any who come here which is why I added the bit about the 'agents' wanting a formal contract with my gf, I've clearly scuppered them on that which doesn't bother me as I'm not part of any agreement she enters into with them.

[KittenKong]

The buyer and seller dont necessarily know what the agent is doing. In fact the buyer and seller may never even meet.

Edit: sry, I misread and thought you were referring to the agent & seller. I agree with your point if the property is unoccupied but not likely if, as in my case, it's your main residence as the buyer would surely want to have a good look around and the seller should always be present.

I did say "not necessarily". Many condos are sold that are not the owner's main residence. In fact the owner may not even be in the country.

Of course in a residential house one is more likely to meet the owner.

[KittenKong]

The buyer and seller dont necessarily know what the agent is doing. In fact the buyer and seller may never even meet.

The sales and purchase contract would state the price of the sales...

A buyer would need such a contract before paying a deposit.

It's a very common practice here so the agents are getting around that one way or another.

[KittenKong]

Is there anything more dishonest than an estate agent in Thailand?

Yes a Thai lawyer - especially in Phuket

Or indeed an American one in Pattaya.

Farang media moguls too.

[IMHO]

So you've had this on the market for some time, you've reduced the asking price twice, but still haven't sold it, and now you're concerned that someone might actually be able to get you the money you want?

Up to you.

If you truly want a quick sale, and you're happy with the fixed price, I can't see why you would spite yourself just because the facilitator is making a profit.

How does it differ from someone just offering your asking price?

Edited November 2, 2014 by IMHO

[Noi657]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

[konying]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

Not a desirable product? or location?

[DLock]

Do you think perhaps your girlfriend cannot see beyond the $$$ signs and doesn't have a clue and is perhaps offering the worst advice?

In a Buyers market, you have to offer better value than anyone else to have a chance of selling.

...it sounds like even though you think your property is good value...it's not.

[Noi657]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

Not a desirable product? or location?

It would still sell if cheap enough... In my opinion

[Fab5BKK]

It's all about value for money ratio, perceived value by the buyer of course

Just my 2 cents

[rayinkrabi]

Wow this topic has gone downhill rapidly...shame on you IMHO for the rubbish you posted, get a grip man and try to think before you type next time

[konying]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

Not a desirable product? or location?

It would still sell if cheap enough... In my opinion

So if i have a bag of $hit, you would buy it for 1 baht? would you take it for free?

Eventually everything sells, sometimes price has very little to do with it,.

Perfect example for you, i bought a townhome some 10 years ago, it was designer place, very different to what you see every day and paid top $$$ for it, because i loved it.

When i tried to sell it, i could not even get an offer at an auction for 3 years, why? because its not everyone's taste.

Then, one guy showed up and fell in love with it the same way as i did and paid above of what i expected.

[KittenKong]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

Not a desirable product? or location?

It would still sell if cheap enough... In my opinion

Indeed. As far as property goes if it doesnt sell then either it isnt being advertised or the price is too high. It really is that simple. Unless perhaps the property is right on the edge of a collapsing cliff.

[IMHO]

Wow this topic has gone downhill rapidly...shame on you IMHO for the rubbish you posted, get a grip man and try to think before you type next time

Shame on me? You have set an asking price - the only thing that matters is whether you get it or not, no? What if someone just accepts your asking price - are they then wrong for not offering you more?

With so many properties for sale, and so few buyers, I think you're fortunate that you have sales agents that are motivated to find buyers for you, and of course money is the motivator.

[Noi657]

If something's not selling, whether it be a car, house, land etc then it's obviously overpriced! What other reason could there possibly be for something not to sell?

Not a desirable product? or location?

It would still sell if cheap enough... In my opinion

So if i have a bag of $hit, you would buy it for 1 baht? would you take it for free?

Eventually everything sells, sometimes price has very little to do with it,.

Perfect example for you, i bought a townhome some 10 years ago, it was designer place, very different to what you see every day and paid top $$$ for it, because i loved it.

When i tried to sell it, i could not even get an offer at an auction for 3 years, why? because its not everyone's taste.

Then, one guy showed up and fell in love with it the same way as i did and paid above of what i expected.

Hmm... Would I buy a bag of <deleted> for a dollar? No!

But someone out there would buy that bag of <deleted> for a cheap price, then try and turn it into something better.

Or... That bag of <deleted> is all you can afford!

[rayinkrabi]

I still can't see the logic in your comments. Of course I start with an 'asking price' and when asked by the 'agent' what is your 'bottom line price' I reply 'as much as I can get' but confide in them how low I would be willing to go in a serious negotiation.

Are you suggesting this is then viewed as my asking price and it's fair for the 'agent' to pocket the difference if they can get more??

[bkkjames]

I still can't see the logic in your comments. Of course I start with an 'asking price' and when asked by the 'agent' what is your 'bottom line price' I reply 'as much as I can get' but confide in them how low I would be willing to go in a serious negotiation.

Are you suggesting this is then viewed as my asking price and it's fair for the 'agent' to pocket the difference if they can get more??

Agreed. This is why you need to get your price out there for all to see. Stop the dreamers from overinflating the real price and possibly scaring off real prospects in the process.

[konying]

Hmm... Would I buy a bag of <deleted> for a dollar? No!

But someone out there would buy that bag of <deleted> for a cheap price, then try and turn it into something better.

Or... That bag of <deleted> is all you can afford!

Great thinking 99, now just need to wait for that someone and in the mean time the bag does not sell.

Common sense really

PS. I did say 1 baht not $1

PPS. This is thai visa ie Thailand forum , try to stick to local currencies and logic

Edited November 3, 2014 by konying

[IMHO]

I still can't see the logic in your comments. Of course I start with an 'asking price' and when asked by the 'agent' what is your 'bottom line price' I reply 'as much as I can get' but confide in them how low I would be willing to go in a serious negotiation.

Are you suggesting this is then viewed as my asking price and it's fair for the 'agent' to pocket the difference if they can get more??

I guess there's your mistake - no agent expects you to honestly give your lowest selling price - you don't reveal that to buyers, and you sure don't reveal it to agents either, unless/until you actually have someone there willing to sign & pay.

As for your last question.. imagine you were the buyer.. would you offer any more once you knew the seller would go lower? no.

Edited November 3, 2014 by IMHO